Thailand's Abhisit Government Rules Out Return To Ante-coup Playing Field For Talks With Ex-pm Thaksin

[webfact]

Thailand's Abhisit government rules out return to ante-coup playing field for talks with ex-PM Thaksin

BANGKOK, Dec 21 (TNA) – The government of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has rejected proposals by the Thailand’s opposition Puea Thai Party to reinstate the country’s 1997 constitution and return frozen assets to ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra, but there is a possibility of a house dissolution to pave the way for new elections, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said on Monday.

Mr Suthep said the preconditions that Mr Thaksin must not be prosecuted and all his frozen funds must be returned are irrational and not according to law. However, it may be possible to dissolve the House of Representatives and organise a general election.

The government urges Mr Thaksin to return to Thailand and to serve his jail term, Mr Suthep said.

The demands of the opposition party are not reasonable and do not comply with the law but aim only to return Mr Thaksin to power and unfreeze his assets, he said.

The ex-premier was sentenced in absentia for two years in a conflict of interest case in connection with his wife's purchase of a plot of land.

Mr Suthep’s comments followed the proposal of former premier Surayud Chulanont during a radio interview on Saturday that he is willing to mediate with Mr Thaksin to end the nation's conflict.

Mr Thaksin’s former legal advisor Noppadon Pattama said that Gen Surayud can contact him or the ex-premier if he will hold the talks, but he emphasized the talks are based on the premise that everything should be returned to as it was before the 19 September 2006 coup d'etat and that the 1997 Constitution should also be reinstated.

Speaking of recent moves by the anti-government ‘Red Shirt’ United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) and the Puea Thai opposition party, Mr Suthep said that all the movement—including the appearance of a classified document from Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, allegations of an allegedly improper Bt258 million donation of the Democrat Party and a call for 100 Puea Thai MPs to resign are aimed to incite Thaksin supporters to topple or destabilize the Abhisit government.

Rejecting all the demands, Mr Suthep said the government will brace to solve the country’s problems and do its best to maintain peace under the law. (TNA)

-- TNA 2009/12/21

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[BangkokJazz]

Here are the Talks

Thaksin (from Darfur): Give me my money back

Abhisit: No

Thaksin (from Chad): Give me my money back or ill protest

Abhisit: No

The end (or the beginning?)

[hhgz]

"The demands of the opposition party are not reasonable and do not comply with the law but aim only to return Mr Thaksin to power and unfreeze his assets, he said."

Well, duh.

[animatic]

Duh; is about Thaksin's whole bargaining position,

other than attempts at insurrection and treason.

[MAJIC]

Thaksin will never go away while his supporters can live in hope of his return as the benefactor,as usual in Thailand its all about money.

[neverdie]

^Almost correct. You should of said its always about DARK money.

[MAJIC]

Not too sure about DARK money? surely not corruption money Lol

[Bagwan]

Here are the Talks

Thaksin (from Darfur): Give me my money back

Abhisit: No

Thaksin (from Chad): Give me my money back or ill protest

Abhisit: No

The end (or the beginning?)

My version would be :-

Thaksin: Give me back my money.

Abhisit : It isn't your money. That is the whole point.

Thaksin: Give me back my money or I'll protest.

Abhisit : You stole the money. Protest all you like. Up to you.

Thaksin family gathers (on TV of course) for a public cry-in.

[eTiMaGo]

Thaksin: Give me back my money.

Abhisit : It isn't your money. That is the whole point.

Thaksin: Give me back my money or I'll protest.

Abhisit : You stole the money. Protest all you like. Up to you.

Thaksin: It is my money! I stole it fair and square!

[Sisaketmike]

Thaksin will never go away while his supporters can live in hope of his return as the benefactor,as usual in Thailand its all about money.

Wouldn't Thaksin be already in prison, if anybody really wanted to?????

He was here asking for permission to go to China...........and they let him go.

[LaoPo]

BANGKOK, Dec 21 (TNA) – The government of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has rejected proposals........................................... to reinstate the country’s 1997 constitution......

Leave the Puea Thai Party out and you get the sentence, above.

And WHY would the Democrats oppose to reinstate the 1997 constitution ?

The 1997 Constitution of Thailand was a landmark and the first really democratically drafted constitutional reform, replacing the Constitution of 1991. There was nothing wrong with that reformation and a major and very good step forwards in the democratic process of Thailand.

That has nothing to do with Thaksin and was before his time. I'm getting sick and tired by all these biased articles which are a hang-up to Thaksin whilst, in fact, it has nothing to do with him. I'm not defending him, I'm trying to focus on the REAL PROBLEM here!

Those articles are purely meant to draw the attention AWAY from the real issue: the reinstatement of the 1997 Constitution

It's even more worrying that most comments here follow the emotion of the article.

WAKE UP!

And, wasn't the present so called 2006 Interim Constitution of Thailand indirectly installed by the coup players to prevent future lawsuits against them so that, in fact, they made themselves absolutely untouchable for eventual consequences of the Coup ?

Hmmm..yes, I know, the good Abhisit is the puppet on the string and it is sad to conclude that such an intelligent and highly educated man prefers to sit on the "pluche" rather than to follow his own path and although I like him as a person, he's a weak leader.

Bangkok's Democracy Monument: a representation of the 1932 Constitution sits on top of two golden offering bowls above a turret.

What democracy in Thailand....?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Constitution_of_Thailand 1997 Constitution of Thailand

EDIT:

When I wrote the above, I didn't read the topic, below, yet:

Prime Minister Abhisit Ready To Dissolve House (......if the Opposition joins forces in amending the 2007 Constitution and stop the red shirt rallies that bring about social division.)

Good!; maybe he's showing some balls now; I really hope so and at the same time I hope the Reds will show their good will (read: no violence) in order to restore the 1997 Constitution; thats a better idea than to "amend" the present Constitution!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Prime-Minist...so-t323824.html

LaoPo

Edited December 21, 2009 by LaoPo

[animatic]

Well one point is ignored.

The 2007 constitution is nearly the same as the 1997 constitution, only much stronger against corruption.

Which is EXACTLY why the Thaksin crowd hates it so much.

It was constructed to fix the flaws Thaksin and company ran through rough shod in the 1997 version.

I have little nostalgia for '97 rev 1, because it is a chimera in the form of 'democratically voted in',

and yet so was the 2007 one, by the very same Thai people...

Anyone remember them having an ALTERNATE choice besides yes or no back in 1997...?

I have never heard that. And have never heard the army wasn't a presence in '97 either.

Anyone imagine Puea Thai wants to STRENGTHEN the '97 redux if it ever comes in?

Doubtful, they knew what holes to drive their armoured cars of cash through

and want them back ASAP.

Smoke and mirrors, hiding behind democratic idealism, for cash, profits and power.

Nothing more same same, but the stink remains.

[LaoPo]

Well one point is ignored.

The 2007 constitution is nearly the same as the 1997 constitution,only much stronger against corruption.

Which is EXACTLY why the Thaksin crowd hates it so much.

It was constructed to fix the flaws Thaksin and company ran through rough shod in the 1997 version.

I have little nostalgia for '97 rev 1, because it is a chimera in the form of 'democratically voted in',

and yet so was the 2007 one, by the very same Thai people...

Anyone remember them having an ALTERNATE choice besides yes or no back in 1997...?

I have never heard that. And have never heard the army wasn't a presence in '97 either.

Anyone imagine Puea Thai wants to STRENGTHEN the '97 redux if it ever comes in?

Doubtful, they knew what holes to drive their armoured cars of cash through

and want them back ASAP.

Smoke and mirrors, hiding behind democratic idealism, for cash, profits and power.

Nothing more same same, but the stink remains.

1. if they would only catch ALL the ones who were and are corrupt but it's easier to withdraw the attention from those and blame everything one one man; it suits 99% of the corrupt elite.

2. Yes...the very same Thai people; the point is that no one understood that Constitution draft...remember ? There was a lot of threatening at the time, telling the population HOW NASTY it would become if they did NOT vote for the new Constitution but I hear nobody about that anymore. Short memories ?

3. You forget about the passages in the so called 2006 Interim Constitution of Thailand, whitewashing the hands of the coup players and protect them against all odds The new Constitution wasn't at all about corruption it was to protect the coup players.

If you want to be fair....be fair, and name all pro's and contra's and for heaven's sake, try to leave talking about that one man and focus on the future instead the past.

Lots of people here talking about that man now already for years over and over again, day-in-day-out....it's so overdone and old coffee it's disgusting to drink.

Leave it to Justice and let someone stand up and drag this country out of the swamps but I don't think Abhisit is the man; too weak and mud feet.

LaoPo

[Publicus]

Well one point is ignored.

The 2007 constitution is nearly the same as the 1997 constitution,only much stronger against corruption.

Which is EXACTLY why the Thaksin crowd hates it so much.

It was constructed to fix the flaws Thaksin and company ran through rough shod in the 1997 version.

I have little nostalgia for '97 rev 1, because it is a chimera in the form of 'democratically voted in',

and yet so was the 2007 one, by the very same Thai people...

Anyone remember them having an ALTERNATE choice besides yes or no back in 1997...?

I have never heard that. And have never heard the army wasn't a presence in '97 either.

Anyone imagine Puea Thai wants to STRENGTHEN the '97 redux if it ever comes in?

Doubtful, they knew what holes to drive their armoured cars of cash through

and want them back ASAP.

Smoke and mirrors, hiding behind democratic idealism, for cash, profits and power.

Nothing more same same, but the stink remains.

<<snip>>

If you want to be fair....be fair, and name all pro's and contra's and for heaven's sake, try to leave talking about that one man and focus on the future instead the past.

Lots of people here talking about that man now already for years over and over again, day-in-day-out....it's so overdone and old coffee it's disgusting to drink.

Leave it to Justice and let someone stand up and drag this country out of the swamps but I don't think Abhisit is the man; too weak and mud feet.

LaoPo

The one man, Thaksin, is obssesivly focused on the future as he continues his wild pursuits to reinstall himself to power by regaining the loot. In the process the one man is fixated in the past, wanting to resurrect the 1997 constitution whose checks and balances he systematically dismantled, return to 2006, negate the election of the present parliament, buy another election and write a constitution that suits he himself to be in power indefinitely.

Yeh, let's focus on Abhisit instead, the guy trying to govern Thailand while Thaksin the Terrible continues to make it ungovernable by endlessly trying to revive the past into an indefinite future, the central feature of which would be he himself in power with revenge in his eyes besides. 

The cold fact is that Thailand is so devoid of leadership Abhisit is all there is.

   

Edited December 21, 2009 by Publicus

[LaoPo]

The one man, Thaksin, is obssesivly focused on the future as he continues his wild pursuits to reinstall himself to power by regaining the loot. In the process the one man is fixated in the past, wanting to resurrect the 1997 constitution whose checks and balances he systematically dismantled, return to 2006, negate the election of the present parliament, buy another election and write a constitution that suits he himself to be in power indefinitely.

Yeh, let's focus on Abhisit instead, the guy trying to govern Thailand while Thaksin the Terrible continues to make it ungovernable by endlessly trying to revive the past into an indefinite future, the central feature of which would be he himself in power with revenge in his eyes besides. 

The cold fact is that Thailand is so devoid of leadership Abhisit is all there is.

   

There are a few more than just a former PM who are obsessed..... as well as fixated on the past....and that Gentlemen, is sad.

Focus on Abhisit ?...hmmmm...come on, don't tell me he has his hands full day and night, focusing on a former PM in exile and trying to fight him off ?

I don't think he would do a better job if there wasn't a former PM around since he's bound to the strings he's attached to and THAT Gents, has nothing to do with that former PM.

He's attached to the former Junta. Simple.

LaoPo

[animatic]

Most points ignored,

and back to the Coup Makers pardon.

So Thaksin can run around free, but those that stopped his

corruption of the '97 Constitution checks and balances are to be jailed?

To the winners go the rules in a nation. In this case the reset the clock to try

yet again for Thai Democracy. Is it the best way, doubtful, is it the Thai Way, certainly.

Sorry, but that coup makers argument is incidental,

really had little to do with whether this is a stronger or weaker constitution than 1997.

The idea that the general electorate understood '97 so much more than '07 is a nebulous argument.

There was as much, or as little comprehension, 10 years earlier as there was 10 years later.

Are there greatly increased constitutional law courses in Thai public schools theses days?

And crying 'The Elites' did it, is disingenuous, because ALL countries of ALL types of

governmental frame works or philosophies ALL have elites governing.

It is part and parcel of the human condition. And it changes over time to more egalitarian,

to greater or lesser extents. But bigger changes in shorter time frames cause greater harm

to the little people, as often so with elites they want to bring down. The elites leave,

the proletariat is stuck with the mess their 'revolutionary leaders' leave them with.

Usually history shows a long period of suffering ensues from abrupt changes, vs gradual ones.

[virtualtraveller]

Why not have a referendum on the constitution, one that asks the following;

1. Keep 2008 constitution and amend

2. Return to 1997 constitution after amendments

See how Takki Shinegra likes that one eh!

What really annoys me, is the sheer disingenuous arguments and dumbed down reasoning that is usually presented by the Thaksin camp (or opposition to current govt), LaoPo included.

Their argument is all too simple: return to the 1997 constitution, it was the people's constitution, it was torn up by an unlawful coup. Sorry, but it's not that simple, the 1997 constitution was the best rendition up to that point (against a backdrop of military rule and no constitution), the 2007 constitution was based largely on it, plugging holes, but introducing some heavy handed conditions that ought to be removed. By abandoning it you are going against the wishes of 60% of the country who approved it, we cannot go backwards, just like we cannot reverse the coup, we had democratic elections and now we must move forward. If we accept a return to the past then why not revert to the original 1932 charter!

It's impossible to make this argument without mentioning Thaksin, afterall, he's the only major player wanting a return to the 1997 one, Peau Thai (who are the real lawful opposition with the right to engage in law making and political activity) at first supported amending the 2007 charter, they only had an about face when Thaksin told them to. Why? Because a return to the 1997 constitution remains his last legal avenue for repealing the corruption verdict and a possible verdict against him in the assets seizure. Besides, the way I understand it, regardless which version you use, it does not change the law, it might open up a wedge of appeal for Thaksin's case but it will not automatically exonerate him.

At least Abhisit has shown some sincerity in trying to amend the 2007 charter and offering to do the right thing and dissolve the house, but Puea Thai (aka Thaksin) are stonewalling him. Thaksin is a dreamer, imagining that we'll all accept an unconditional return to the 1997 charter, house dissolution and him walking free and returning to power without any recourse to justice whatsoever. Sure, lock up the coup makers, I'll support that, but the day Thaksin is excused from justice is the day we should take to the streets by the millions demanding that every criminal ever convicted in Thailand ought to be set free.

Please, Takki, don't insult my intelligence, the 30% of this country that pay the taxes and bother to keep themselves informed see through your devious argument.

[LaoPo]

Most points ignored,

and back to the Coup Makers pardon.

So Thaksin can run around free, but those that stopped his

corruption of the '97 Constitution checks and balances are to be jailed?

To the winners go the rules in a nation. In this case the reset the clock to try

yet again for Thai Democracy. Is it the best way, doubtful, is it the Thai Way, certainly.

Sorry, but that coup makers argument is incidental,

really had little to do with whether this is a stronger or weaker constitution than 1997.

The idea that the general electorate understood '97 so much more than '07 is a nebulous argument.

There was as much, or as little comprehension, 10 years earlier as there was 10 years later.

Are there greatly increased constitutional law courses in Thai public schools theses days?

And crying 'The Elites' did it, is disingenuous, because ALL countries of ALL types of

governmental frame works or philosophies ALL have elites governing.

It is part and parcel of the human condition. And it changes over time to more egalitarian,

to greater or lesser extents. But bigger changes in shorter time frames cause greater harm

to the little people, as often so with elites they want to bring down. The elites leave,

the proletariat is stuck with the mess their 'revolutionary leaders' leave them with.

Usually history shows a long period of suffering ensues from abrupt changes, vs gradual ones.

My goodness....I wonder: do you also dream about Thaksin that you can't even post one single message without mentioning his name ?

It looks like you are starting to develop the same obsession about that man as a banned member had and probably still has.

And I really pity that man since such an obsession is a sickness....an addiction which kills a human being slowly but surely since it's pure hate and hate is a very bad thing.

Any reasonable discussion with you is virtual impossible and I withdraw myself from such an obsession.

I'm lucky I'm not obsessed with Thailand or it's politics and I merely try to watch with a helicopter view of what's happening in Thailand and watch out to avoid to have myself influenced by the biased low quality Thai newspapers and their low class reporters, writing that unbelievable content, day in day out.

What's more: there are even people who believe that rubbish.

Personally, I believe there's still a normal life out there without Thai politics and maybe you should try to find it also ?

Nothing personal since you must be a nice man, loving the same island as I do, since 20 years; I just oppose your views which are so full of bitterness; enjoy life instead embracing hate and bitterness

Have a nice day.

LaoPo

[hammered]

It is not really about the two constitutions but a legal point that a return to 1997 would invalidate all charges as some of Thaksin's advisers have pointed out to him this is one way to clear himself without court.

Why not 1997 but doing it in a way that enables Thaksin the chance to clear himself through court. The legislature shoukld be able to reintroduce the old constitution and keep the charges. Wonder how PTP would react to that?

2007 by the way guarantees peopel a lot more than 1997 and it would be a great shame if those provisions were lost although to be honest it is nigh on impossible to find anyone who knows what is in either constitution which exposes the whole 1997 versus 2007 as the sham it is.

Abhisit seems to be sounding more confident than a few months ago. Seems strange.

[BangkokJazz]

Most points ignored,

and back to the Coup Makers pardon.

So Thaksin can run around free, but those that stopped his

corruption of the '97 Constitution checks and balances are to be jailed?

To the winners go the rules in a nation. In this case the reset the clock to try

yet again for Thai Democracy. Is it the best way, doubtful, is it the Thai Way, certainly.

Sorry, but that coup makers argument is incidental,

really had little to do with whether this is a stronger or weaker constitution than 1997.

The idea that the general electorate understood '97 so much more than '07 is a nebulous argument.

There was as much, or as little comprehension, 10 years earlier as there was 10 years later.

Are there greatly increased constitutional law courses in Thai public schools theses days?

And crying 'The Elites' did it, is disingenuous, because ALL countries of ALL types of

governmental frame works or philosophies ALL have elites governing.

It is part and parcel of the human condition. And it changes over time to more egalitarian,

to greater or lesser extents. But bigger changes in shorter time frames cause greater harm

to the little people, as often so with elites they want to bring down. The elites leave,

the proletariat is stuck with the mess their 'revolutionary leaders' leave them with.

Usually history shows a long period of suffering ensues from abrupt changes, vs gradual ones.

My goodness....I wonder: do you also dream about Thaksin that you can't even post one single message without mentioning his name ?

It looks like you are starting to develop the same obsession about that man as a banned member had and probably still has.

And I really pity that man since such an obsession is a sickness....an addiction which kills a human being slowly but surely since it's pure hate and hate is a very bad thing.

Any reasonable discussion with you is virtual impossible and I withdraw myself from such an obsession.

I'm lucky I'm not obsessed with Thailand or it's politics and I merely try to watch with a helicopter view of what's happening in Thailand and watch out to avoid to have myself influenced by the biased low quality Thai newspapers and their low class reporters, writing that unbelievable content, day in day out.

What's more: there are even people who believe that rubbish.

Personally, I believe there's still a normal life out there without Thai politics and maybe you should try to find it also ?

Nothing personal since you must be a nice man, loving the same island as I do, since 20 years; I just oppose your views which are so full of bitterness; enjoy life instead embracing hate and bitterness

Have a nice day.

LaoPo

I know an ass whuppin' when I see one - and LP just received one. Wax on, wax off baby. There is nothing bitter about Anim's views. They are just more well thought out, constructed, and argued than yours. The only bitterness I see, is in your post. (i.e. "I'm taking my ball, and going home")

[Ricardo]

Wouldn't Thaksin be already in prison, if anybody really wanted to?????

He was here asking for permission to go to China...........and they let him go.

You will recall that it was the previous (PPP-led coalition) government, under PM-Somchai (Thaksin's brother-in-law), which permitted Thaksin to leave the country while his court-cases were underway, not the current Democrat-led coalition-government under PM-Abhisit.

But one can perhaps understand why Somchai let him go, not wanting to see a relative & former-PM trapped or locked-up in prison, thus allowing the other cases to progress further.

[Publicus]

Most points ignored,

and back to the Coup Makers pardon.

So Thaksin can run around free, but those that stopped his

corruption of the '97 Constitution checks and balances are to be jailed?

To the winners go the rules in a nation. In this case the reset the clock to try

yet again for Thai Democracy. Is it the best way, doubtful, is it the Thai Way, certainly.

Sorry, but that coup makers argument is incidental,

really had little to do with whether this is a stronger or weaker constitution than 1997.

The idea that the general electorate understood '97 so much more than '07 is a nebulous argument.

There was as much, or as little comprehension, 10 years earlier as there was 10 years later.

Are there greatly increased constitutional law courses in Thai public schools theses days?

And crying 'The Elites' did it, is disingenuous, because ALL countries of ALL types of

governmental frame works or philosophies ALL have elites governing.

It is part and parcel of the human condition. And it changes over time to more egalitarian,

to greater or lesser extents. But bigger changes in shorter time frames cause greater harm

to the little people, as often so with elites they want to bring down. The elites leave,

the proletariat is stuck with the mess their 'revolutionary leaders' leave them with.

Usually history shows a long period of suffering ensues from abrupt changes, vs gradual ones.

My goodness....I wonder: do you also dream about Thaksin that you can't even post one single message without mentioning his name ?

It looks like you are starting to develop the same obsession about that man as a banned member had and probably still has.

And I really pity that man since such an obsession is a sickness....an addiction which kills a human being slowly but surely since it's pure hate and hate is a very bad thing.

Any reasonable discussion with you is virtual impossible and I withdraw myself from such an obsession.

I'm lucky I'm not obsessed with Thailand or it's politics and I merely try to watch with a helicopter view of what's happening in Thailand and watch out to avoid to have myself influenced by the biased low quality Thai newspapers and their low class reporters, writing that unbelievable content, day in day out.

What's more: there are even people who believe that rubbish.

Personally, I believe there's still a normal life out there without Thai politics and maybe you should try to find it also ?

Nothing personal since you must be a nice man, loving the same island as I do, since 20 years; I just oppose your views which are so full of bitterness; enjoy life instead embracing hate and bitterness

Have a nice day.

LaoPo

I know an ass whuppin' when I see one - and LP just received one. Wax on, wax off baby. There is nothing bitter about Anim's views. They are just more well thought out, constructed, and argued than yours. The only bitterness I see, is in your post. (i.e. "I'm taking my ball, and going home")

animatic is a patient guy who makes thoughtful and thought through posts. He finally wore out LP. It's the old lawyers' saying, when you have the facts pound on the facts, when you don't have the facts pound on the table.    animatic has the facts and arguments, somebody else got stuck with only the table. 

[rixalex]

And I really pity that man since such an obsession is a sickness....an addiction which kills a human being slowly but surely since it's pure hate and hate is a very bad thing.

Always so quick with the "obssession" accusations LaoPo. Nothing obssessive about it. People just expressing an opinion on a negative force. Fine, so you think there are other issues as troubling/more troubling than our square-faced friend, so start some threads on those matters and express yourself. Stop telling people how they should feel. They feel pissed off with Thaksin and think he is one of the biggest problems facing the nation then up to them. Why should that bother you so much, that you continually have to come on here and tell people to back off him - doing your merry dance of defending him whilst at the same time "not supporting" him?

P.S. We all know that you are chuffed to bits that a certain member who opposed your view was silenced, is it really necessary for you to gloat about this every day though?

[Samuian]

Thaksin will never go away while his supporters can live in hope of his return as the benefactor,as usual in Thailand its all about money.

Wouldn't Thaksin be already in prison, if anybody really wanted to?????

He was here asking for permission to go to China...........and they let him go.

Just think, the answer is in the question!

What good would he do in prison?

The (stolen/illgotten) amassed money is of much more value, isn't it?

After all it's what this mess is all about!?

[Steve2UK]

Wouldn't Thaksin be already in prison, if anybody really wanted to?????

He was here asking for permission to go to China...........and they let him go.

You will recall that it was the previous (PPP-led coalition) government, under PM-Somchai (Thaksin's brother-in-law), which permitted Thaksin to leave the country while his court-cases were underway, not the current Democrat-led coalition-government under PM-Abhisit.

But one can perhaps understand why Somchai let him go, not wanting to see a relative & former-PM trapped or locked-up in prison, thus allowing the other cases to progress further.

We're given to understand that the Thai judiciary acts independently. So, was it "the previous (PPP-led coalition) government, under PM-Somchai (Thaksin's brother-in-law), which permitted Thaksin to leave the country while his court-cases were underway" - or the Supreme Court?

"Earlier, there had been speculation as to whether the couple would return to report themselves to the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders, which has granted them permission to leave the country on a case-by-case basis."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30080169

"The Thai Supreme Court found him guilty of abusing his position as Prime Minister, the first of a series of verdicts due against the former leader, who was deposed in a bloodless coup in 2006.......... He was allowed by the court to attend the opening of the Olympic Games in Beijing in August."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle4984120.ece

Edited December 22, 2009 by Steve2UK

[hammered]

Wouldn't Thaksin be already in prison, if anybody really wanted to?????

He was here asking for permission to go to China...........and they let him go.

You will recall that it was the previous (PPP-led coalition) government, under PM-Somchai (Thaksin's brother-in-law), which permitted Thaksin to leave the country while his court-cases were underway, not the current Democrat-led coalition-government under PM-Abhisit.

But one can perhaps understand why Somchai let him go, not wanting to see a relative & former-PM trapped or locked-up in prison, thus allowing the other cases to progress further.

We're given to understand that the Thai judiciary acts independently. So, was it "the previous (PPP-led coalition) government, under PM-Somchai (Thaksin's brother-in-law), which permitted Thaksin to leave the country while his court-cases were underway" - or the Supreme Court?

"Earlier, there had been speculation as to whether the couple would return to report themselves to the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders, which has granted them permission to leave the country on a case-by-case basis."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30080169

"The Thai Supreme Court found him guilty of abusing his position as Prime Minister, the first of a series of verdicts due against the former leader, who was deposed in a bloodless coup in 2006.......... He was allowed by the court to attend the opening of the Olympic Games in Beijing in August."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle4984120.ece

Imho those that oppsoe Thaksin were at that time playing by the old rulebook for ousted leaders ie let em go and live abroad. Thaksin though was playing by a different newer set of rules and wasnt going to fade away abroad and probably at some point get a tranche of dosh back and then be allowed to return in a humble fashio.

Lots has changed and is changing in Thailand. Thaksin has been quite good at seeing it and staying abreast of it. His opponents have mostly missed it and failed to respond until too late although in the last few months Abhisit seesm to have got up to speed although most of his allies havent so it probably wont help.

In some ways it is a shame that we dont have a situation devoid of coups, violence and hatred in which Thaksin and Abhisit were heading up big parties in electoral battles on a newer reformed field. The chance of that is now gone though and withit consensus and any chance for a reformed poltitical system. All we are going to get now is a long power struggle and whoever is in power trying to wreck their opponents and that isnt going to be good for democracy or Thailand whoever wins in the end if indeed anyone.

[Steve2UK]

Wouldn't Thaksin be already in prison, if anybody really wanted to?????

He was here asking for permission to go to China...........and they let him go.

You will recall that it was the previous (PPP-led coalition) government, under PM-Somchai (Thaksin's brother-in-law), which permitted Thaksin to leave the country while his court-cases were underway, not the current Democrat-led coalition-government under PM-Abhisit.

But one can perhaps understand why Somchai let him go, not wanting to see a relative & former-PM trapped or locked-up in prison, thus allowing the other cases to progress further.

We're given to understand that the Thai judiciary acts independently. So, was it "the previous (PPP-led coalition) government, under PM-Somchai (Thaksin's brother-in-law), which permitted Thaksin to leave the country while his court-cases were underway" - or the Supreme Court?

"Earlier, there had been speculation as to whether the couple would return to report themselves to the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders, which has granted them permission to leave the country on a case-by-case basis."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30080169

"The Thai Supreme Court found him guilty of abusing his position as Prime Minister, the first of a series of verdicts due against the former leader, who was deposed in a bloodless coup in 2006.......... He was allowed by the court to attend the opening of the Olympic Games in Beijing in August."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle4984120.ece

Imho those that oppsoe Thaksin were at that time playing by the old rulebook for ousted leaders ie let em go and live abroad. Thaksin though was playing by a different newer set of rules and wasnt going to fade away abroad and probably at some point get a tranche of dosh back and then be allowed to return in a humble fashio.

Lots has changed and is changing in Thailand. Thaksin has been quite good at seeing it and staying abreast of it. His opponents have mostly missed it and failed to respond until too late although in the last few months Abhisit seesm to have got up to speed although most of his allies havent so it probably wont help.

<snip>

A lot of truth in that, I think. Whatever the motivations (commented on countless times here), Thaksin didn't do as other ousted Thai leaders have done (despite initially saying that he would). I think the coup-makers' situation has been rather like the dog confronted by a cat that won't run - the dog gets confused. With Thaksin ousted but refusing to stay "gone", the "normal" pattern of such things in Thailand has been upset - and the rest of what we have seen follows..... About Abhisit getting up to speed with it (even belatedly and pretty much on his own), I'm not sure; in any event, my take is that others that count have already decided that it's time to re-shuffle the deck and are just waiting for the time to be right (as in enough ducks lined up) to play the hand.

PS> I'm reminded privately that Thaksin left Thailand fully six weeks before Somchai became PM. A small point for some (Samak/Somchai = same same?), but it's as well to be accurate. At the time Thaksin left, Somchai was still education minister - not the most obvious office from which to enable Thaksin's departure. The point about which body (i.e. the Supreme Court) actually did grant permission stands. What were their reasons for reaching that decision? We can only speculate.

[rixalex]

I think the coup-makers' situation has been rather like the dog confronted by a cat that won't run - the dog gets confused.

LOL. I like that analogy. Very true.

[LaoPo]

I know an ass whuppin' when I see one - and LP just received one. Wax on, wax off baby. There is nothing bitter about Anim's views. They are just more well thought out, constructed, and argued than yours. The only bitterness I see, is in your post. (i.e. "I'm taking my ball, and going home")

I wondered how long it would take for you to take the bite. You're an even more hungry fish than I could ever imagine. I spotted you already since day one you became a(gain) new member.

Which number of your new member names is this BangkokJazz/John ?...30th, 40th ? Do you have a list, nailed next to your PC with all the new names and passwords?

Let's see how long it lasts this time but you're getting more cautious...of course; It's hard to get banned all the time isn't it?

LaoPo

[sepia]

And I really pity that man since such an obsession is a sickness....an addiction which kills a human being slowly but surely since it's pure hate and hate is a very bad thing.

Always so quick with the "obsession" accusations LaoPo. Nothing obsessive about it. People just expressing an opinion on a negative force. Fine, so you think there are other issues as troubling/more troubling than our square-faced friend, so start some threads on those matters and express yourself. Stop telling people how they should feel. They feel pissed off with Thaksin and think he is one of the biggest problems facing the nation then up to them. Why should that bother you so much, that you continually have to come on here and tell people to back off him - doing your merry dance of defending him whilst at the same time "not supporting" him?

Very well said.