Thailand Local Minimum Wage Raised

[Publicus]

So populations get it coming or going, i.e., a couple of billion living in rathole conditions on less than USD $2 per day or some couple of hundred million (aggregate) in rich countries with their noses pressed against the window. It seems unresolvable under any ism or any mix of isms.

Wrong. It seems unresolvable under any ism - or rather: any government - currently practiced.

See my previous post for more information.

Ah yes, that well worn road to.................wherever.

The paths of history are beat down by the answers so here we are still regrouping to recover from the certainties of those solutions. The roads to the future are, well, the roads to the future, which means more regrouping ahead from more future shock.

No sale.

   

[TAWP]

Cabinet Raises Minimum Wage for 71 Provinces

UPDATE : 29 December 2009

The Cabinet has resolved to raise the amount of minimum wage by 1-8 baht in 71 provinces from the current Bt173. Workers in Ayutthaya will see the biggest rise.

http://www.tannetwork.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1022990

[buddy]

So populations get it coming or going, i.e., a couple of billion living in rathole conditions on less than USD $2 per day or some couple of hundred million (aggregate) in rich countries with their noses pressed against the window. It seems unresolvable under any ism or any mix of isms.

Wrong. It seems unresolvable under any ism - or rather: any government - currently practiced.

See my previous post for more information.

Ah yes, that well worn road to.................wherever.

The paths of history are beat down by the answers so here we are still regrouping to recover from the certainties of those solutions. The roads to the future are, well, the roads to the future, which means more regrouping ahead from more future shock.

No sale.

   

Try this for future food for thought-

How about as the first move we write off all the interest that Governments borrow with impunity from certain private Banks (including the US Federal Reserve Bank, Yes it is a private Bank) which is the basis of high taxation, after all the Banks did get there money for free!

The guarantee that the Governments offer up to these private Banks are there populations of current tax payers and future generations of taxpayers not yet born.

Banker - Yawn, Oh you want to borrow some more money Mr Brown for another one of your fluncky schemes or another War Mr Obama, yawn, What security do you have that I will get my money back?

Brown/Obama/Politicians - No problem Mr Banker we will increase taxes by another 10% for a hundred years, but we will impose the new taxes by stealth so they wont know about it.

Banker - What happens if the taxpayers get educated about this, they'll be rioting on the streets?.

Brown/Obama, If some of the idiot taxpayers are smart enough and twig on that over half of the money they pay in taxes goes to your private Bank and refuse to pay we will throw them in jail and take there houses, cars and the shirt of there backs.

Banker - Jolly good, heres another 20 Billion at 5% interest and dont forget the 0.25 of a cent I charge you for every dollar bill i print when we fool them with 0% interest.

With the exception of National emergency's I propose that fiscal responsibility needs to be enshrined in the constitutions to prevent governments continually mortgaging off future generations lives by borrowing with impunity!

When Blair/Brown and Obama/Bush are dead and gone, generations of taxpayers would still be paying for there actions well into the future...its abuse of power of the highest order!

BUT THIS IS THE RUB....Who dare challenge Governments, especially Western Democratic dictatorships and there hidden masters, the Bankers??

How do you do it, partial Tax revolt?.....see you in jail!

[Publicus]

So populations get it coming or going, i.e., a couple of billion living in rathole conditions on less than USD $2 per day or some couple of hundred million (aggregate) in rich countries with their noses pressed against the window. It seems unresolvable under any ism or any mix of isms.

Wrong. It seems unresolvable under any ism - or rather: any government - currently practiced.

See my previous post for more information.

Ah yes, that well worn road to.................wherever.

The paths of history are beat down by the answers so here we are still regrouping to recover from the certainties of those solutions. The roads to the future are, well, the roads to the future, which means more regrouping ahead from more future shock.

No sale.

   

Try this for future food for thought-

How about as the first move we write off all the interest that Governments borrow with impunity from certain private Banks (including the US Federal Reserve Bank, Yes it is a private Bank) which is the basis of high taxation, after all the Banks did get there money for free!

The guarantee that the Governments offer up to these private Banks are there populations of current tax payers and future generations of taxpayers not yet born.

Banker - Yawn, Oh you want to borrow some more money Mr Brown for another one of your fluncky schemes or another War Mr Obama, yawn, What security do you have that I will get my money back?

Brown/Obama/Politicians - No problem Mr Banker we will increase taxes by another 10% for a hundred years, but we will impose the new taxes by stealth so they wont know about it.

Banker - What happens if the taxpayers get educated about this, they'll be rioting on the streets?.

Brown/Obama, If some of the idiot taxpayers are smart enough and twig on that over half of the money they pay in taxes goes to your private Bank and refuse to pay we will throw them in jail and take there houses, cars and the shirt of there backs.

Banker - Jolly good, heres another 20 Billion at 5% interest and dont forget the 0.25 of a cent I charge you for every dollar bill i print when we fool them with 0% interest.

With the exception of National emergency's I propose that fiscal responsibility needs to be enshrined in the constitutions to prevent governments continually mortgaging off future generations lives by borrowing with impunity!

When Blair/Brown and Obama/Bush are dead and gone, generations of taxpayers would still be paying for there actions well into the future...its abuse of power of the highest order!

BUT THIS IS THE RUB....Who dare challenge Governments, especially Western Democratic dictatorships and there hidden masters, the Bankers??

How do you do it, partial Tax revolt?.....see you in jail!

Only if I might decide to drop by during visiting hours, which I doubt I'd do.  

[buddy]

Unlike billions of other people living in squalor, you are probably a person who benifits greatly from the Status Quo of the current system being maintained?

Instead of making snide remarks, are you able to offer any constructive alternatives to the grossly unfair system we currently have?

[Publicus]

Unlike billions of other people living in squalor, you are probably a person who benifits greatly from the Status Quo of the current system being maintained?

Instead of making snide remarks, are you able to offer any constructive alternatives to the grossly unfair system we currently have?

Altho each of us relates to the world from our individual perspective, I doubt trying to personalize one's socioeconomic position accomplishes much. In fact most discussion at this thread has focused on the accident of birth into societies that range from least developed to the advanced. I've specifically mentioned in an earlier post that being born into a well to do society, while a clear advantage, is no guarantee of financial security in any given one (tho the UK does present clear advantages of socioeconomic status/class).

IMO we need to focus on civilizations. The past millennium clearly has, for the most part, been definitively shaped by the West, from the Renaissance to the Industrial Revolution to the present age of IT. The US Federal Reserve System is but a speck in the development of the modern world, so to try to single it out as a force for evil exploitation is a distortion. That distortion obscures the complexity and development of the totality of the myriad factors which produced a civilization (the West)) that created new and radically better ways to live life on the planet.

Bangkok and Washington DC were founded contemporaneously in history and look at the difference (pathetic). Buddhist civilization is decrepit, China and the brief flowering of Islam each faded fast by the 14th century, India long ago flourished but dug its own hole thus making it a ready victim of the Brits. Africa's static cultures always were going to leave the place and its peoples open to victimization but whose fault is that?. 

While I'm free of religious belief or ritual, I do have to recognize and acknowledge that for all its trillions of faults, flaws and crimes against humanity Christian civilization has created the modern world - one really needs to say Judaeo-Christian civilization. Who's fault is that? 

While the billions in poverty have to extents been victims of the nosy, greedy and aggressive aspects of Western civilization, not to mention its racism, those billions were born into civilizations that have been bereft of ideas and industriousness, worse, they are moribund and ossified, factors one cannot ascribe to Western bankers such as the Rothschilds (unless one wants to extend the factors of religions further but in other, unacceptably negative ways). 

Where some see bankers and usury others see a linear progress to history, imperfect as it is. 

          

Edited December 29, 2009 by Publicus

[aras]

Idiote are you living in the 21st century ? freem market works? where? in congo or siera leon ?? haha incredible people......you must be a american who thinks fox news is a news channel and not a comedy channel.

minimum wages actually kill jobs.

free market economics is what works.

I DONT KNOW THE CONOMICS OF PICKING RICE, BUT THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE SHE IS BEING OVERPAID!

[Publicus]

Idiote are you living in the 21st century ? freem market works? where? in congo or siera leon ?? haha incredible people......you must be a american who thinks fox news is a news channel and not a comedy channel.

minimum wages actually kill jobs.

free market economics is what works.

I DONT KNOW THE CONOMICS OF PICKING RICE, BUT THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE SHE IS BEING OVERPAID!

The minimum wage is civilization establishing basic socioeconomic justice and a semblance of morality on the whining and the greedy who selfishly and uncompromisingly own the means of production. Having a minimum wage is the act of government wrestling to the mat for a three count the always absolutely resistant hard core owners who can't see the forest of the society from their own individual money trees.

The claim the minimum wage kills jobs is made by the mean spirited owners who will kill jobs if only to support their bogus claims. In any event, the minimum wage does not kill jobs - only owners who continue to have a 19th century morality kill jobs in their own self interest at the expense of the individual and of the society.  

Conversely, the People's Republic of China has adopted free market economics to a significant extent as the only way to grow its economy. The Communist Party of China knows that, as with the USSR, it cannot deliver the goods to its society by having an absurdly so-called command economy which in fact is a lumbering economy which not only is inefficient, but worse is counter productive to economic growth and development.

Those who oppose the minimum wage are also those who oppose social and economic democracy, those for instance who reject outright and forever the principle that health and medical care in the society constitutes a right to life. What's more, national health care and insurance promotes a more rational, efficient and productive economy, not to mention a more just and moral society.

Abhisit is politicing in promoting the minimum wage, as are those who oppose it. It's only a question of which politics one considers right and just.  

[buddy]

Bangkok and Washington DC were founded contemporaneously in history and look at the difference (pathetic). Buddhist civilization is decrepit.

While the billions in poverty have to extents been victims of the nosy, greedy and aggressive aspects of Western civilization, not to mention its racism, those billions were born into civilizations that have been bereft of ideas and industriousness, worse, they are moribund and ossified, factors one cannot ascribe to Western bankers such as the Rothschilds (unless one wants to extend the factors of religions further but in other, unacceptably negative ways). 

Where some see bankers and usury others see a linear progress to history, imperfect as it is. 

          

Would this be the very same Washington DC that murdered millions of indigenous North American Indians and nearly drove Bison to extinction in a few decades and that is the capital of the richest country in the world where there are more poor people lined up at soup kitchens and panhandling on the streets than pathetic Bangkok?

My point previously is that Governments who borrow money with impunity and make generations and generations of fellow citizens slaved to a system because of high interest usery is morally wrong....it means nobody is born free!

If we have this imperfect capitalist system (as no system is perfect) and this is the best humankind has come up with so far, why cant we "tweak" the current system to make it even better by reducing the amounts that Governments can borrow and how much these private banks can charge interest?

Of coarse the Bankers will obviously resist there sacred cow being touched, however its a valid arguement I am proposing from which millions if not Billions of people would benifit.

The Bankers can still be greedy but just not so greedy.

[TAWP]

Minimum wage makes sure that there is an clearly established lower class even in western nations.

[Publicus]

I certainly wouldn't want to be on record as accepting greed or accommodating greed, much less promoting it. I wouldn't advocate laws, rules or regulations that say to bankers that they can be greedy but not too greedy. That would be poor public policy, a dubious morality and personally objectionable. 

There also is more to a government's fiscal health, its monetary policies, taxation and the overall state of the economy than its relationship with banks and bankers. In other words, this single focus on banks can be overdone. In most market economies to include mixed ones a government and a business are two different beasts, which is why it's a good idea to keep them separate as each relate to banks differently and for different purposes.   

The privately owned Bank of America (which repeatedly assures me I'm a 'valued customer'  )  just recently purchased the legal limit of 20% of the China Construction Bank in the PRC, largely because it's more detatched from ownership by the government than the other banks in the PRC, especially the massively corrupt and inefficient People's Bank of China.

What say you about banks in state owned and operated economies such as those in the PRC? Also, how about France? Is the French government too involved in ownership of banks and unwisely, or immorally, engaged in usury and in placing the French population and their posterity in exploitative debt, unmitigated or otherwise? Is Islamic finance such as in Malaysia a better system, worse or same?

If one is going to focus excessively on banks and bankers, one would need to be both comprehensive and discerning based on the particulars of the numerous systems of banking and because of the great differences in the various corporate relationships governments have with them. 

As to the minimum wage, I'd stated previously to this thread that even in the 30 or so advanced economies upwards of 15% of the population are poor, are 'dribbled' on by the economy, so it's no surprise that a lower class exists in any one of them even if it's in relative terms. Hence the 'civilized' factor of the minimum wage.    

Edited December 30, 2009 by Publicus

[buddy]

I certainly wouldn't want to be on record as accepting greed or accommodating greed, much less promoting it. I wouldn't advocate laws, rules or regulations that say to bankers that they can be greedy but not too greedy. That would be poor public policy, a dubious morality and personally objectionable. 

There also is more to a government's fiscal health, its monetary policies, taxation and the overall state of the economy than its relationship with banks and bankers. In other words, this single focus on banks can be overdone. In most market economies to include mixed ones a government and a business are two different beasts, which is why it's a good idea to keep them separate as each relate to banks differently and for different purposes.   

The privately owned Bank of America (which repeatedly assures me I'm a 'valued customer'  )  just recently purchased the legal limit of 20% of the China Construction Bank in the PRC, largely because it's more detatched from ownership by the government than the other banks in the PRC, especially the massively corrupt and inefficient People's Bank of China.

What say you about banks in state owned and operated economies such as those in the PRC? Also, how about France? Is the French government too involved in ownership of banks and unwisely, or immorally, engaged in usury and in placing the French population and their posterity in exploitative debt, unmitigated or otherwise? Is Islamic finance such as in Malaysia a better system, worse or same?

If one is going to focus excessively on banks and bankers, one would need to be both comprehensive and discerning based on the particulars of the numerous systems of banking and because of the great differences in the various corporate relationships governments have with them. 

As to the minimum wage, I'd stated previously to this thread that even in the 30 or so advanced economies upwards of 15% of the population are poor, are 'dribbled' on by the economy, so it's no surprise that a lower class exists in any one of them even if it's in relative terms. Hence the 'civilized' factor of the minimum wage.    

Err Publicus, you already accomodate greed by not protesting and being compliant to an economic banking system that is greedy beyond imagination.

The focus is on Banks and Bankers because they are the hidden controllers of the current economic system and unfortunetely also the political systems of the West, the one does not nessaserraly mean we have to have the other, it was manipulated that way by one group way in the past and we and successive generations before us have meekly inherited it.

We already accept like mindless drones excessive greed in proportions that boggle the mind by accepting and paying excessive tax demands by our governments who dress the interest up as some thing else.

Usery, interest, duty, fee's, licenses, rates, taxes what every term governments wish to fluff it up as, the fact is the largest portion of your tax is being collected to pay back the Bankers interest.

What I am trying to advocate is not abolition of the system as I do not have an answer for a replacement and Communism is not the answer, and to totally exclude the Bankers would only invite bloodshed.

So whether the Bank is in France or America, Islamic or Christian makes no difference as they use the Fractional Reserve Banking system in some form or other.

The only two American presidents who did actually try to challenge the bankers were JFK and Abraham Lincoln... say no more about there plight!

Governments borrowing with impunity and mortgaging my children and childrens, childrens futures is what I strongly object to, tweaking the current system will benifit the whole of mankind until an original thinker comes along with a viable replacement to the unfair system we have inherited.

I also think that the Bankers will have a World currency as there next goal, mull over that horror!

The minimum wage is not a civilized factor, it is a political gesture (read stunt) with no real intent to improve the lives of the poor as 1% of <deleted> all is <deleted> all.

[caf]

So populations get it coming or going, i.e., a couple of billion living in rathole conditions on less than USD $2 per day or some couple of hundred million (aggregate) in rich countries with their noses pressed against the window. It seems unresolvable under any ism or any mix of isms.

Wrong. It seems unresolvable under any ism - or rather: any government - currently practiced.

See my previous post for more information.

I agree Luxius, the present structure does not support the low wage problem.

But it still needs to be democratic but Thai way. All democracies develop, Thailand will be no different in my view.

[noot]

Idiote are you living in the 21st century ? freem market works? where? in congo or siera leon ?? haha incredible people......you must be a american who thinks fox news is a news channel and not a comedy channel.

minimum wages actually kill jobs.

free market economics is what works.

I DONT KNOW THE CONOMICS OF PICKING RICE, BUT THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE SHE IS BEING OVERPAID!

The minimum wage is civilization establishing basic socioeconomic justice and a semblance of morality on the whining and the greedy who selfishly and uncompromisingly own the means of production. Having a minimum wage is the act of government wrestling to the mat for a three count the always absolutely resistant hard core owners who can't see the forest of the society from their own individual money trees.

The claim the minimum wage kills jobs is made by the mean spirited owners who will kill jobs if only to support their bogus claims. In any event, the minimum wage does not kill jobs - only owners who continue to have a 19th century morality kill jobs in their own self interest at the expense of the individual and of the society.

Conversely, the People's Republic of China has adopted free market economics to a significant extent as the only way to grow its economy. The Communist Party of China knows that, as with the USSR, it cannot deliver the goods to its society by having an absurdly so-called command economy which in fact is a lumbering economy which not only is inefficient, but worse is counter productive to economic growth and development.

Those who oppose the minimum wage are also those who oppose social and economic democracy, those for instance who reject outright and forever the principle that health and medical care in the society constitutes a right to life. What's more, national health care and insurance promotes a more rational, efficient and productive economy, not to mention a more just and moral society.

Abhisit is politicing in promoting the minimum wage, as are those who oppose it. It's only a question of which politics one considers right and just.

dood are you a card carrying socialist?

natinoal health care doesnt work.....please point out where it has, i would like to know where it has led to a more efficient, rational, productive economy!

so at least americans have something to look forward too!

[noot]

publicus would fit right in with the obam a regime! quite a resume sir!

i say let the poor thrive and grow. dont keep em down with policies that give them the incentive to stay poor! its not just and moral to keep em poor just becoz those in power want to stay in power.

like mao tse tung, a fav philosopher of mine once said, stop giving poor welfare programs give em programs that teach em how to fish!

Edited December 31, 2009 by noot

[Bagwan]

In the developed world I have little sympathy for the under classes. They had the same opportunities that I did and were too lazy or stupid to make use of them. So many have had no sense of purpose or what their priorities should be. Home, food, clothes, education and putting aside for a rainy day and/or old age seemed the right way for me.

I have every sympathy for the 'have nots' in the undeveloped world who have historically been the victims of mismanagement, corruption, class, tribal or religious distinction, and the lack of opportunity. I don't pretend that the rich countries have done or given enough to assist the third world but what is the point when what is made available is snaffled by their over privileged ruling classes. When one looks at the state that Africa is in you have to wonder whether colonialism was such a wicked system - well the Brit bit anyway.

[Publicus]

<<snip>>

Governments borrowing with impunity and mortgaging my children and childrens, childrens futures is what I strongly object to, tweaking the current system will benifit the whole of mankind until an original thinker comes along with a viable replacement to the unfair system we have inherited.

<<snip>>

Methinks you sound too much focused on government fiscal policy, government debt, government spending and government programs, to include the attack rhetoric of "impunity" as supposedly practiced by governments borrowing from banks. 

I'm from the US so I inherently distrust government and continually keep my eye on it and am skeptical of it, but I also see government making positive contributions to society such as, among other things, social security in the US, social compensatory programs, the national highway system, medicare, medicaid, NASA (hoo boy here it comes now!) and presently social health insurance for virtually every citizen. 

You folks keep howling about government borrowing and expressing condescending attitudes towards those who dispute your great and grand focus on banks, bankers, banking - banks as an institution of society and the interaction between banks and governments. Your issue is banks, government, taxation..........banks, government, taxation.............banks, government, taxation. The proverbial broken record.

Businesses small and large, to include especially huge corporations, borrow and transact with banks too. One can recognize and understand your concerns as a taxpayer, but businesses small medium and large, and corporations especially, also deal with banks every day of the year. 

Spending all this time energy and effort on the interaction of banks and government alone, focused especially on government borrowing - which has happened since banks became an institution of society - seems overblown, simplistic, agenda driven.  

Your issue sounds very American, very conservative American, very tea party right wing American. Or are you so far over to the right that you're already beginning to come at us from the completely opposite direction? You indeed focus on the US by trying to pounce on the Fed while dismissing the various and complex relationships between governments and banks in all other societies and civilizations while simultaneously ignoring business and corporate borrowing in the US and elsewhere. The focus on taxation and national debt is particularly right wing American.  

Banks, government, taxation. That's the core of what we're getting here. I've heard it already before.

And we should be attentive to those who have their own agenda to hijack a thread, in this instance the minimum wage in Thailand 2010.  

 

[neil324]

How do the increases compare to the 5% stated inflation rate?

Its a pay cut then.

[buddy]

<<snip>>

Governments borrowing with impunity and mortgaging my children and childrens, childrens futures is what I strongly object to, tweaking the current system will benifit the whole of mankind until an original thinker comes along with a viable replacement to the unfair system we have inherited.

<<snip>>

Methinks you sound too much focused on government fiscal policy, government debt, government spending and government programs, to include the attack rhetoric of "impunity" as supposedly practiced by governments borrowing from banks. 

I'm from the US so I inherently distrust government and continually keep my eye on it and am skeptical of it, but I also see government making positive contributions to society such as, among other things, social security in the US, social compensatory programs, the national highway system, medicare, medicaid, NASA (hoo boy here it comes now!) and presently social health insurance for virtually every citizen. 

You folks keep howling about government borrowing and expressing condescending attitudes towards those who dispute your great and grand focus on banks, bankers, banking - banks as an institution of society and the interaction between banks and governments. Your issue is banks, government, taxation..........banks, government, taxation.............banks, government, taxation. The proverbial broken record.

Businesses small and large, to include especially huge corporations, borrow and transact with banks too. One can recognize and understand your concerns as a taxpayer, but businesses small medium and large, and corporations especially, also deal with banks every day of the year. 

Spending all this time energy and effort on the interaction of banks and government alone, focused especially on government borrowing - which has happened since banks became an institution of society - seems overblown, simplistic, agenda driven.  

Your issue sounds very American, very conservative American, very tea party right wing American. Or are you so far over to the right that you're already beginning to come at us from the completely opposite direction? You indeed focus on the US by trying to pounce on the Fed while dismissing the various and complex relationships between governments and banks in all other societies and civilizations while simultaneously ignoring business and corporate borrowing in the US and elsewhere. The focus on taxation and national debt is particularly right wing American.  

Banks, government, taxation. That's the core of what we're getting here. I've heard it already before.

And we should be attentive to those who have their own agenda to hijack a thread, in this instance the minimum wage in Thailand 2010.  

 

And we should also be attentive to those who do not offer at least one proposal that could benifit the poor rather than a minimum wage that keeps them poor.