The Unbelievable Practices From Paypal

[LaoPo]

I sell items on ebay regulary and paypal froze my account as they said too much money was sent from my paypal

account to my bank account in the UK. I had a good month that month! I had to send them proof of purchase receipts

proof of postage receipts etc, which I did with no problem. I heard nothing back from them for 2 weeks. I had to call them

and eventually they un-froze my account. BUT from now on there will be a rolling reserve on my account, where they keep 15% of any

payment that I receive for 90 days!! CRIMINAL!!!

Yes, I recognize your complaint; it's unbelievable what they do and allow themselves to their clients but the 15% rule is new to me.

The question about showing purchase receipts is not of their business; it's just another one of their invented rules to freeze money and THUS draw interest; If you do so with millions of GBP's, Euros or $'s you make a nice living

I'll inform my wife about the 15% rule; I also told her it's better to keep a minimum amount of money in her PP account.

Criminal behavior indeed.

LaoPo

Edited January 6, 2010 by LaoPo

[onlycw]

I hear you.

PP wouldn't let me pay for a $ 385 photo lens from an eBay dealer from which I bought cameras gear worth thousands of Dollar the previous 12 months. With a credit card, that is. So they want to avoid the credit card fees? Forcing me to either have direct debit or send money from the account first?

their explanation was some "security" alert or some b.s. With XXX transactions, they ought to know by now that me and my credit card is good for the money

***

Once I transferred about $ 17,000 and they not only froze the account for many weeks but also alerted my baU.s. bank that my account was hacked into, freezing that online access as well.

It was simply not true.

But for your wife, the real danger is the ability of buyers to reverse payments - often many weeks after a transaction. As you mentioned the Euro, set up an account and take advantage of SEPA. Germans can send payment to a UK account for a few Baht or for free. All you need is an IBAN and the BIC.

As a seller, you get hit really hard. I sold something and made a loss. The buyer was French and he wanted insurance and PP took a minimum of I think EUR 0.41 or maybe 18 Baht for each small payment he made.

PP is good for quick private payments to a friend, across borders. But for eBay business, especially for transactions of such a magnitude, I wouldn't dare do that.

Jack Nicholson provided the links, now do some reading...

One trick is that folks request goods to be sent to a "non verified address", voiding both eBay and PP protection. And on German TV, they showed a con artist with a room full of electronics who never pays for anything, as he is on welfare. Yep, it's easy - and only the decency of most people lets eBay stay in business. As there are many scams, like one where buddies oobid much higher than FMV, then they cancel the bids seconds before the auction ends.

Oh, and as a seller, you are open to bad feedback even if you can prove you sent a new article.

[WarpSpeed]

Well all I can say is there seems to be a lot of ignorance here relatively speaking regarding the regulations that PP has to adhere to to offer this service on a world wide basis. Every single individual banking regs in every single unique country is a lot of regs to follow and as well there is a huge world wide squeeze on moving terrorist moneys and if you think it can't be laundered through such a service it is an even worse display of business education that requires a reality check.

I'm not defending PP except to say that it is a service of convenience and if you have a viable alternative or can start one up yourself have at it but stop whinging about it or just quit it altogether. They walk a tight rope every day between customers complaining on both sides of the fence regarding either refunds or account security and more and more have been using them for fraudulent purposes and at the end of the day who gets the dirty end of the stick over that?

But so far nothing I've read on here is really relative as they have all had extenuating circumstances whether bank account tap dances or some other reasoning but none has been as the OP stated for "no reason"..

Anything that goes through China/HK is going to get scrutiny it's a fact of life and it relates to the Chinese government not PP so make it as forth right and transparent as possible and avoid all the bank account dancing and you'll likely have less issues and red flags raised.. They have a far greater potential loss for violations then one or 2 or even 10 or 100 accounts to consider so they aren't going take chances in spite of how it effects you personally I'm sorry to say..They shot people in China for fraud..

Edited January 8, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

How about this scenario for your perusal; A terrorist in Bali wants to receive money from a source in Pakistan, they have this phony business set up where they can purchase big money products but the products don't actually exist, how does anyone know that? They make the purchase, money is transferred, deal is done and nothing ever exchanged hands but cash to the terrorists direct to a phony account through this service and people die because of it because no one was "on duty" so to speak. That's not fiction, it happens and this is one of several reasons you don't understand that red flags are raised on suspicious account activity and accounts get frozen until proof and confirmation can be established.

A legitimate user will fight but one that is not, likely will walk away to avoid trouble. Not justification, just explanation, something to think about..

Edited January 8, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[LaoPo]

How about this scenario for your perusal; A terrorist in Bali wants to receive money from a source in Pakistan, they have this phony business set up where they can purchase big money products but the products don't actually exist, how does anyone know that? They make the purchase, money is transferred, deal is done and nothing ever exchanged hands but cash to the terrorists direct to a phony account through this service and people die because of it because no one was "on duty" so to speak. That's not fiction, it happens and this is one of several reasons you don't understand that red flags are raised on suspicious account activity and accounts get frozen until proof and confirmation can be established.

A legitimate user will fight but one that is not, likely will walk away to avoid trouble. Not justification, just explanation, something to think about..

You're obviously not a banker; neither am I but maybe I know a little more about (the possibilities of) transferring funds all over the world.

Those "terrorists" laugh about PP; they don't use it and they don't need them either. There are Islamic systems, even non-wire systems, just a phone call to get access to cash; large funds also; transferring via PP would be useless; very easy to trace for any intelligence service.

The moment we write about this it's traced already.

BB is watching you...and me

That's why your comments make no sense and you have obviously an agenda to defend the practices of eBay and PP.

Your sentence: "I'm not defending PP except to say that it is a service of convenience ....." should be read as: a service to make and steal -temporarily- money.

I think there are hundreds of thousands of PP users who would wish PP would be correct "bankers" and not create the fuzz and practices they do.

It has never happened to me that a Bank froze my money because of (STUPID) so called "security" reasons. what a B_ll

And, believe me, I have quite some experience, transferring funds from one country to another over a period of decades.

Don't give me that nonsense.

LaoPo

[MarkyM3]

My 2c...

If you use Paypal in the UK and need to call them, in my experience you will end up speaking to someone in Dublin. Which is far better than India or the Phillippines imo if you want a non-scripted telephone conversation!

I had to raise a dispute recently due to buying something off ebay which was not as advertised. The dispute was resolved in my favour, which was pleasing. However, two points worth noting:

(1) Paypal stated they did not take into account buyer or seller questions from the ebay listing. Given I had extensive evidence there, that was rather surprising since both companies are joined at the hip and I would gladly sign any data protection waivers if required. (NB - I didn't raise the dispute in ebay because I couldn't easily find a link to do this, apparently the procedure "is undergoing changes"). Paypal said they basically look at the wording of listing and the statements from buyer and seller to make their decision on a dispute.

I would strongly recommend calling them. I got a decision quickly by verbally explaining the background to the case. Whilst the first operative I spoke to was fairly clueless, I rang back again and got someone who was right on the ball and sorted it there and then. I received instructions to send the item back at my expense (which cost a bit since it had to go tracked delivery) but that's the only way you'll get yer money back.

(2) Having sent the item back and having it signed on 24th December, I got a note on 30th December at 10pm saying they needed me to supply them with an electronic copy of the postal receipt. When calling up the next day to query this, the reason given was that someone else had signed for the parcel and even though the postcode showed on the online tracking info, the house number did not. Annoying, but OK fair enough. However, I was only given until 2nd January to return the info - otherwise, they would close my case down!!!! Therefore, I could easily have been in the situation of having returned the item but returning from a Christmas break to find myself way out of pocket!!!!

Thing is, if you are buying stuff of ebay and you want protection, Paypal is the least risky way of doing business. If you pay by bank transfer or cheque, you have no way of getting money back as far as i can see if things go wrong. A case in ebay may be judged in your favour but the best they can do is threaten someone with having their account suspended or closed. For non-ebay purchases, I use Visa cards where there is the onus on the card provider to offer protection against fraud etc.

Edited January 8, 2010 by MarkyM3

[WarpSpeed]

Ohhhhh Dear! I had no idea I was dealing with an expert and yet.......................

Edited January 8, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[MarkyM3]

The reason I posted the info was in case someone else has a dispute with Paypal and wants to avoid being punk'd. Tw@t.

Edited January 8, 2010 by MarkyM3

[Doc50]

Agreed PayPal more like

Pain in the *ss pal.

Doc

[flying]

I have read of many bad experiences with PP

I must admit though that perhaps I was lucky.

I have used them since 1998 & have a bit over 200 transactions with them.

Many for large sums. So far so good & no problems.

My only complaint is their fees have gone up considerably over the years.

[WarpSpeed]

The reason I posted the info was in case someone else has a dispute with Paypal and wants to avoid being punk'd. Tw@t.

Thank you for the unnecessary over reaction as my response was directed to the OP. But no worries mate.... I am what I eat....

Edited January 10, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[thetravellingcat]

moneybookers

[TravelerEastWest]

I have used PayPal for business and personal problems never a problem.

I think that their fees are slightly high but it is my choice to use them or not.

I also understand that if you have a problem they have a low end almost completely automated customer service problem.

Again my choice to use them or not. We also use Visa, MC, Discover and AmEx.

WarpSpeed makes good points.

In the end PayPal's shortcomings are quite public so why use them if you are not willing to accept the headaches that come from dealing with them?

The post office cause more problems for our business than PayPal - way more - yet they are the only game in town so I accept them. I also grumble from time to time - smiling....

[phil2]

They (PayPal) have a TOTAL MONOPOLY on eBay - they suck and people hate them , yet they continue to earn a fortune.

The very reason I won't trade on ebay.

[William Osborne]

Ok everybodye agrees that ebay & paypal are <deleted>.... any alternatives ??

[frenchFARANGbkk]

I was thinking that paypal was getting better lately ?

Anybody had his account frozen lately ?

[Phil Conners]

Yes, me. Less than a month ago. All I could do was refund payments, setup a new paypal account in a partners name and request debitors to resend their payment and hope for the best. This has cost significant in both time and money so far.

[WarpSpeed]

I have used PayPal for business and personal problems never a problem.

I think that their fees are slightly high but it is my choice to use them or not.

I also understand that if you have a problem they have a low end almost completely automated customer service problem.

Again my choice to use them or not. We also use Visa, MC, Discover and AmEx.

WarpSpeed makes good points.

In the end PayPal's shortcomings are quite public so why use them if you are not willing to accept the headaches that come from dealing with them?

The post office cause more problems for our business than PayPal - way more - yet they are the only game in town so I accept them. I also grumble from time to time - smiling....

I did!! D@**! There goes my reputation!! Cheers! :D

[OxfordWill]

have been using pp since the start, multiple accounts over the years for business and personal use. Never had any big issues with them. One tip- call the numbers listed on the uk paypal site- youll get through to Ireland.

[LaoPo]

have been using pp since the start, multiple accounts over the years for business and personal use. Never had any big issues with them. One tip- call the numbers listed on the uk paypal site- youll get through to Ireland.

Nice to hear; maybe clients from the western hemisphere are better treated (more carefully because of possible lawsuits) than the clients from Asia.....it looks like that.

LaoPo

[OxfordWill]

yes or just less instances of fraudulent use - in our company we are certain prejudiced against non western client- submit their purchases to more scrutiny, etc.

[djk]

I was thinking that paypal was getting better lately ?

Anybody had his account frozen lately ?

I have 2 paypal accounts one in the UK which I've used for my online business for a few years and had no problems whatsoever. I opened another one and linked it to a Thai bank account and in the first 6 months it was frozen twice when payments started coming in, seems they are a lot more stringent when it comes to Thailand.

Although having all my money frozen was harsh, I found doing exactly what they asked, in a quick fashion worked. Being a nuisance on the phone to their support helps as well . Doing this in both instances the account was unfrozen within a few days.