Point Of No Return

[joinme2leave]

back "good old europe" after 6 month LOS (nov2004-apr2005).

...

despite the fact that:

* my european location offers super clean, super silent natural environment

* i do have zero obligations to live in europe (by means of job or wife or kids)

besides the fact that:

* i was just super lucky not to be on Ko Phi Phi on dec 26, 2004

* i was just super lucky to miss that special underground train from "Thailand Cultural Centre Station" in january 2005

besides the fact that:

* i cannot stand the noise and air pollution in Bkk

* i am not happy with mosquito trouble whilst on any LOS island

besides the fact that:

* i do not have any serious thai girl relationship (and not even looking for)

besides the fact that:

* i spent almost the same amount of $$$ in LOS as I probably would have needed if I decided not to take that 6-month-biz/pleasure-break in asia

and besides the fact that:

* I did not feel sad entering DonMuang for my return flight

...

I do not know HOW to manage future life here, in europe.

So I wonder: WHEN ---oooh when---- will that magic "point of no return" reach my brain?

How was it with you guys (and girls) ???

How long did it take you to say: ok, this is it ... I'm leaving (europe, america or whatever)

[dr_Pat_Pong]

What took you so long ?

[joinme2leave]

doc, it STILL takes (and worries) me ... thinking, thinking, thinking.

maybe too short time elapsed after having left.

maybe having real trouble in deciding what is best for my life.

maybe I am the perfect chicken.

when was YOUR time to be sure about YOUR point of no return?

[ace]

Sat, having breakfast, on Samui some years ago. A tropical bird landed on my table, sang a birdsong like none ever heard in Europe, sun beating down, huge black thunderclouds gathering in the west, something different, totally different, to anything I ever knew before. Was the 1st visit. Took my mate next time, now he's the same. Jungle fever I call it. Money, lack of teaching ability and un-willingness to live poor, forces me to spend too much time in Europe though.

[bkkmadness]

On the flight home from the first time here I realised that Europe wasn't for me, or was it the first bottle of Vodka on the table on my first night in Bangkok?

Whatever, I knew pretty quick that even if not Thailand I would definitely be out of Europe as soon as possible. Sometimes you just gotta take the plunge.

[penelope]

"point of no return"..i find that mindset extremely limiting.

I prefer to take the concept of "point of no return" completely out of the equation all together by having a solid base here in LOS and also back in the west (NZL and Aussie in our case). Takes time, planning, foresight however.

[Wanraya]

I first came to Thailand on holiday in April 1998. By February 2000 I was a five trip veteran.

I remember one freezing morning sitting in my car in Newcastlel in a never ending traffic jam going to work suddenly thinking that at that very moment some lucky tw@ts were enjoying cold beer and hot women at Las Vegas a gogo in Pattaya(now club Nevada).

It was there and then I decided to move to Thailand. I've never regretted it for a single moment.

[Simbo]

The last ' hurdle' is, can I afford it? You have to have an garanteed income to survive any length of time here, otherwise paradise soon becomes ######. I know loads who would come at the drop of a hat, if they had the finances.

[Jack Jones]

Haven't reached it yet. Have thought about taking the plunge many times but I earn a decent wage in the UK and I don't think I could replicate my standard of living in LOS by taking up a teaching job. I would love to do it (teach and live in Thailand) but I'm a risk averse person and I would have to have everything set-up before I lived there full time.

[Jockstar]

I've left Europe many times for stays of a year or more. Europe for me being the Uk. Evrytime i go back i know it wont be long till i leave again. Lived in Oz(a year) NZ (a year) LOS (nearlly 4 aprt from 6 months back in London). I work here as a teacher. I know not everyones choice for a job. But i do ok and between me and the missus we are comfortable. I gotta leave next yaer to OZ. But i actually dont mind that. As its not Europe. It took me a month of being in LOS to decide to come back and make a go of things here. No looking back my friend. Everyone is different.You know when its time. But as what has been said. You need income.

[Steve2UK]

Maybe I haven't absolutely reached the "point of no return" - in that I always want a fallback option or you could say "lifeboat" for anything major I undertake. Anyhow, I'm currently aiming to move (by the the end of this year) to LOS for as long as it goes on working for me - meaning that I expect to see out my days there (I'm coming up to 55).

That said, I'm with those on the forum who say that you shouldn't tie down more in LOS than you can walk away from - so I still intend to maintain the lifeboat in the UK. For me, that means renting out one of two central London flats which I own and living off the rent in LOS. After a lot of research, I'm convinced that I can live well in Chiang Mai for no more than 65,000 baht a month - "well" meaning the rental of a good 3-bedroom house with garden plus my choice of high-end TV/internet, good medical insurance, running a car, occasional leisure trips in the region, range of food/entertainment etc. Between the London rental income and interest from some modest investments, I will have no trouble generating the necessary funds (and some to spare) to get set up and then maintain myself for the foreseeable future - even if the £/Baht exchange rate dips from where it is now. I should also say that I haven't included a Thai partner in those monthly calculations.................

That's the practical side - i.e. I know I can make the arithmetic work and still have a fallback option if the situation changes in the future. The more personal side is that I also see it as my next great adventure - maybe my last one? Yes, I'll be giving up a lot here in London in terms of access to the cultural/social aspects, but then I've used those less and less in recent years. Being half-German, I've always had something of a schizophrenic attitude about being a Brit - so maybe I'm less bound to it than others; I also have no family ties to consider. Basically, what's here in London has lost its charm for me (maybe it's a generation thing) and I'm ready to explore new opportunities - challenging as achieving them may be.

LOS will give me those opportunities and challenges. And give me the time and (I hope) the stimulus and scope to get back to writing again, for instance. If I have one "negative" that still hovers in my mind, it's what a very good friend reminded me - "You always take yourself with you". How much of a factor (good and bad) that will prove to be is something I will only know later.

That's a brief overview of my situation. I can sum up my attitude like this: I just can't see a valid reason for NOT doing it - and I know I will regret it later if I don't do it.

[samran]

Wifey and I are lucky I guess, she is a registered NZ teacher and I am a super luk-krung with a few contacts and some decent experience in Thailand that international companies would be interested in, so we’d both be able to get good jobs in Thailand.

The moment of realisation for us was when we did a back of the envelope calculation and even though we’d be earning roughly 20% less than here in London, we’d be able to save a ###### of a lot more and still live a decent, but not extravagant lifestyle which we used to do when we were there anyway. (This means eating at home during the week, and going out for a nice meal on the weekend, with a couple of short holidays/trips home during the year). That, combined with the generally deteriorating state of the London education and health system made us think that London wasn’t great for the long term unless you were an investment banker. Plus, we want to have kids and London isn’t the place to bring them up.

An English couple we are good friends with have been based in BKK for 4 years now. They are both teachers who basically turned up in BKK and decided to make a go of it. They work hard and lay low during the week doing a few ESL privates in the evening to get their play money, but on the weekends they live it up. Between them they still manage to put away £2000 per month by not spending their regular salary. With that they have managed to get on the property ladder back in the UK. For them there is no looking back.

Edited April 26, 2005 by samran

[Thomas_Merton]

...That, combined with the generally deteriorating state of the London education and health system made us think that London wasn’t great for the long term unless you were an investment banker. Plus, we want to have kids and London isn’t the place to bring them up....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying that the education system and health system in Thailand is better than that found in London, or anywhere else in the UK?

If you are, I wonder how many farang or Thai's share that point of view?

IMHO these two systems are unfortunately the least of many other positive reasons to live and bring up a family in Thailand.

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

Being half-German, I've always had something of a schizophrenic attitude about being a Brit

Let me solve this one for you

You're not British.

You're German

I hope this cures your schizophrenia.

Please remit my psychotherapy fee

[Dakhar]

It was on my 3rd or 4th trip to Thailand that I decided that "I" wanted to live there. Before I was willing to live there out of an obligation I made with my wife. I promised her that one day I would bring her back on a permanent bassis.

Well during my last visit, I was so relaxed, enjoyed life so much more, felt younger, slept like a baby, lost weight, and ate like a king. I love Thai food.

Any how, we have been saving like crazy, and I hope that by next Feb. we can make the move. The financial plan is, have a vehicle paid for, house paid for, and a gauranteed income via investments of 40K baht. The field that I am in, I should be able to get a job in, in fact I have already had a few offers, and my wife should be able to get a job easily too.... So, if the math looks correct at feb 2006, my wife and I shall be going to Thailand on a permanent bassis, and me.... I shall be semi retired at age 33.

Ahhhh..... I am looking forward to that.

[samran]

...That, combined with the generally deteriorating state of the London education and health system made us think that London wasn’t great for the long term unless you were an investment banker. Plus, we want to have kids and London isn’t the place to bring them up....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying that the education system and health system in Thailand is better than that found in London, or anywhere else in the UK?

If you are, I wonder how many farang or Thai's share that point of view?

IMHO these two systems are unfortunately the least of many other positive reasons to live and bring up a family in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, that is not what I am saying. On average of course, health and education in the UK is better. But it is debateable whether that holds for some parts of London. We have both lived in Thailand for many years and are making an educated choice as to what will be available to us there, versus what is available to us here.

I see where you are coming from, and I agree that they shouldn’t be the main reasons to move back to BKK. But they are a factor. Money and being able to save for the future is obviously another. Quality of life (believe it or not) is/will be higher for us and our potential children in Bangkok. We also have some of my family in BKK and close access to the rest of them in OZ/NZ. These are the other main reasons.

Fact of the matter is, if all goes to plan, we will be lucky enough that we will be able to afford both private health insurance and private schools in Thailand. The same can’t be said for the UK, and we don’t want to do what every one else does here by moving out to one of the home counties so that their child doesn’t have to go to a London school, while we commute to the city every day. Education wise, some of the schools here in the capital aren’t too crash hot. I’m working on educational issues at the moment here in London and I am pretty repulsed by some of the things I see, high rates special needs, violence and under achievement.

While the NHS is one of the better systems about, it could be a lot better. Having been brought up with the Medicare system in Australia, I should know. It is also a pain in the @rse to get an appointment see my local GP I am registered with, and the NHS walk in centres are a joke. I had a better check up from a local hospital in rural Thailand than I have with some of these places here in the UK.

[siamesekitty]

...That, combined with the generally deteriorating state of the London education and health system made us think that London wasn’t great for the long term unless you were an investment banker. Plus, we want to have kids and London isn’t the place to bring them up....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying that the education system and health system in Thailand is better than that found in London, or anywhere else in the UK?

If you are, I wonder how many farang or Thai's share that point of view?

IMHO these two systems are unfortunately the least of many other positive reasons to live and bring up a family in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm afraid I agree with Thomas Merton there. Don't mean to disrespect my country or anything, but unfortunately it's true..

edit (adding on after seeing samran's post):

By 'private schools' do you mean the international schools? I didn't attend any myself, but my friends from these various international schools say they're really not that great (but I think they should be better than the average Thai schools, which stifle creativity)

P.S. don't forget about the pollution.. when I went to England for a month during high school, the zits I had at that time all disappeared! Then when I came back my skin returned to normal.

Edited April 26, 2005 by siamesekitty

[alex100]

...That, combined with the generally deteriorating state of the London education and health system made us think that London wasn’t great for the long term unless you were an investment banker. Plus, we want to have kids and London isn’t the place to bring them up....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying that the education system and health system in Thailand is better than that found in London, or anywhere else in the UK?

If you are, I wonder how many farang or Thai's share that point of view?

IMHO these two systems are unfortunately the least of many other positive reasons to live and bring up a family in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Taken in comparison the health service probably is if you consider what a medium earner pays in national insurance contributions a large part of which is allocated to the NHS and the cost of a private health care plan with a top Thai Hospital. You must also consider the crap service you recieve in the NHS I pay close to £400 (approx 28K baht) per month NI it is a rip off.

[samran]

yes I do mean international schools. There are some not so great ones I know, but I am thinking ISB or Bangkok Pattana, not just any old school which has 'international' in the name.

As for pollution, can't do much about that. Will have to make sure we get out of town often!

[samran]

...That, combined with the generally deteriorating state of the London education and health system made us think that London wasn’t great for the long term unless you were an investment banker. Plus, we want to have kids and London isn’t the place to bring them up....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying that the education system and health system in Thailand is better than that found in London, or anywhere else in the UK?

If you are, I wonder how many farang or Thai's share that point of view?

IMHO these two systems are unfortunately the least of many other positive reasons to live and bring up a family in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Taken in comparison the health service probably is if you consider what a medium earner pays in national insurance contributions a large part of which is allocated to the NHS and the cost of a private health care plan with a top Thai Hospital. You must also consider the crap service you recieve in the NHS I pay close to £400 (approx 28K baht) per month NI it is a rip off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember paying 28K per year for the highest level of coverage through royal sun alliance

[Thomas_Merton]

...That, combined with the generally deteriorating state of the London education and health system made us think that London wasn’t great for the long term unless you were an investment banker. Plus, we want to have kids and London isn’t the place to bring them up....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying that the education system and health system in Thailand is better than that found in London, or anywhere else in the UK?

If you are, I wonder how many farang or Thai's share that point of view?

IMHO these two systems are unfortunately the least of many other positive reasons to live and bring up a family in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, that is not what I am saying. On average of course, health and education in the UK is better. But it is debateable whether that holds for some parts of London. We have both lived in Thailand for many years and are making an educated choice as to what will be available to us there, versus what is available to us here.

I see where you are coming from, and I agree that they shouldn’t be the main reasons to move back to BKK. But they are a factor. Money and being able to save for the future is obviously another. Quality of life (believe it or not) is/will be higher for us and our potential children in Bangkok. We also have some of my family in BKK and close access to the rest of them in OZ/NZ. These are the other main reasons.

Fact of the matter is, if all goes to plan, we will be lucky enough that we will be able to afford both private health insurance and private schools in Thailand. The same can’t be said for the UK, and we don’t want to do what every one else does here by moving out to one of the home counties so that their child doesn’t have to go to a London school, while we commute to the city every day. Education wise, some of the schools here in the capital aren’t too crash hot. I’m working on educational issues at the moment here in London and I am pretty repulsed by some of the things I see, high rates special needs, violence and under achievement.

While the NHS is one of the better systems about, it could be a lot better. Having been brought up with the Medicare system in Australia, I should know. It is also a pain in the @rse to get an appointment see my local GP I am registered with, and the NHS walk in centres are a joke. I had a better check up from a local hospital in rural Thailand than I have with some of these places here in the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I could not comment on life “down there” in London, as we say here in the North.

We live in a small Lancashire market town: the local Grammar school is one of the top 200 schools in the UK; private schools abound and are excellent; the health centre functions without a problem; there are two Universities within ½ hours drive; we have a local cottage hospital and in the town 5 miles away is a teaching hospital; the town and surrounding countryside is idyllic, visited by many tourists who wander in our hills and refresh themselves via Britain’s best wine merchants. Manchester and Liverpool are only an hour away.

“The last of the Summer Wine” was made close by, and from which I will quote: the elderly gentlemen were sitting on top of the hill looking down on the sunlit valley. One of them said, “Just look at the view. You know we could be in heaven.”

“How do you know it’s not the other place?” said the grumpy one.

“Oh no.”, said the others in chorus, “that’s further south – down there!”

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

Thomas Merton = 'Compo'

[samran]

Well I could not comment on life “down there” in London, as we say here in the North.

We live in a small Lancashire market town: the local Grammar school is one of the top 200 schools in the UK; private schools abound and are excellent; the health centre functions without a problem; there are two Universities within ½ hours drive; we have a local cottage hospital and in the town 5 miles away is a teaching hospital; the town and surrounding countryside is idyllic, visited by many tourists who wander in our hills and refresh themselves via Britain’s best wine merchants. Manchester and Liverpool are only an hour away.

“The last of the Summer Wine” was made close by, and from which I will quote: the elderly gentlemen were sitting on top of the hill looking down on the sunlit valley. One of them said, “Just look at the view. You know we could be in heaven.”

“How do you know it’s not the other place?” said the grumpy one.

“Oh no.”, said the others in chorus, “that’s further south – down there!”

Sounds like Australia, but without the warm weather. If I wanted that I'd go live in the Barossa or Yarra Valley.

[Thomas_Merton]

Thomas Merton = 'Compo'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The truth is out!

[cobra]

"point of no return"..i find that mindset extremely limiting.

I prefer to take the concept of "point of no return" completely out of the equation all together by having a solid base here in LOS and also back in the west (NZL and Aussie in our case). Takes time, planning, foresight however.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly, couldn't agree more.

Why must it reach a point of no return,

Rotating between bases keeps everything fresh and allows you

to come up for an occasional intelligence fix, just as dumbing down to

Thaigish can be a welcome relief,

Do I want to sweat all day, freeze all day, it's good to have options,

and yes, $$ will always dictate those options.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

Late January 2002 I had just opened “Lil Scrub’s” ,my sandwich shop on walking street in Pattaya, named after my son’s nick name. I leaned back in a soft chair at Susan’s bar adjacent to my little shwarma shop and just watched the people gather around to get a bite. I tilted back a cool Bombay Sapphire gin and tonic on the rocks, and as I sipped away and laughed with my friends one of them, a blond Iraqi, told me “You know, it’s something in the water once you come to Thailand, you will always come back”

He was right,

Ever since I knew that I was destined to live the expat life there.

[Steve2UK]

Being half-German, I've always had something of a schizophrenic attitude about being a Brit

Let me solve this one for you

You're not British.

You're German

I hope this cures your schizophrenia.

Please remit my psychotherapy fee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Never actually seen it as a problem................. so - no cure, no fee.

[penelope]

"point of no return"..i find that mindset extremely limiting.

I prefer to take the concept of "point of no return" completely out of the equation all together by having a solid base here in LOS and also back in the west (NZL and Aussie in our case). Takes time, planning, foresight however.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly, couldn't agree more.

Why must it reach a point of no return,

Rotating between bases keeps everything fresh and allows you

to come up for an occasional intelligence fix, just as dumbing down to

Thaigish can be a welcome relief,

Do I want to sweat all day, freeze all day, it's good to have options,

and yes, $$ will always dictate those options.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes $$ is a necessary part of it, but no more than the planning, goal setting and hard work to acheive it.I've put in the very hard yards over the years and now have acheived the goal of freehold homes in NZL, Aussie and LOS and the ability to move between the locations freely and enjoy the same lifestyle and ammenitys in each place.

Like the previous poster mentioned, keeps everything fresh and gives you options.

Thailand is however overflowing with the "I want it all now" types who have spent the better part of their lives stuffing around.Most people I know who do enjoy good lifestyles have spent a good deal of time consistently working towards it.

[joinme2leave]

hasip-hasip (well, almost hasip-hasip) solution I am practising now for years (5 months asia, mostly thailand + 7 months europe) BUT my question was: point of no return...THAT particular moment when you tell (told) yourself: goodbye to my old, welcome to my new life. New by so many things and (mostly) financial considerations. How easy (or difficult) must it be to say farewell to all of your friends (most of them won't come to visit you and if they do it won't be more than just a short visit)? How easy (or difficult) must it be regarding (already mentioned) kids educational possibilities, change of social security, life standard, pollution level (just talking about Bkk), job opportunities (in case you are not retired yet) and so many more? As said in my first post: ... maybe I AM the perfect chicken as I STILL do not have the courage to move. Or what? Or how?

[Dakhar]

I had the honor of meeting a fellow. He was around 28yrs old, half Thai, half white. He and his bride (also half white half thai) had grown up in America. He had an MBA, worked at a bank for some time.

He inherited a house in Thailand.... he also had enough money to own a bar....

So he dumped all he had in America and went to Thaialand with his bride. Ahh what a storry. He told me repeatedly, to give up on America and come live the Thai life. I look forward to the day I can.