Farang Shot And Killed In C.m.

[elektrified]

Just saw on the news that a German guy was shot and killed while on his large motorcycle as I understood it. Happened right near me in Tambol Nong Jom, Amphur Sansai. They showed his passport. I believe his name was Schuller.

[BlackArtemis]

No matter the outcome of who and why, regards go to families hurt and lives lost

[Donnyboy]

sad news, RIP

[alant]

anyone know where to see details? or have them?

[Loaded]

I remember the big German on a big motorbike who was shot in front of the Montri hotel around 10 years ago. Someone wearing expensive clothes got out of their expensive car after the German gave him the finger. It's rumoured the shooter was a member of the judiciary. The man sent to prison for life for the German's murder was hilltribe! let's hope there's justice for this death.

[elektrified]

A friend saw another news report and apparently a witness told police that the German guy was shot by a "teenager" while he was on his "chopper".

Thais often refer to people in their early 20's as "teenagers" also, so I think that they meant the shooter was a young person.

On the report I saw, they showed the guy's passport, visa, etc. He looked to be fairly young - 40ish? But a passport photo could be 10 years old for that matter...

It can be dangerous out there!

RIP

Edited January 12, 2010 by elektrified

[cmsally]

A friend saw another news report and apparently a witness told police that the German guy was shot by a "teenager" while he was on his "chopper".

Thais often refer to people in their early 20's as "teenagers" also, so I think that they meant the shooter was a young person.

On the report I saw, they showed the guy's passport, visa, etc. He looked to be fairly young - 40ish? But a passport photo could be 10 years old for that matter...

It can be dangerous out there!

RIP

It's on the front page of Thai Rath today (can't see it on the website though).

He was shot at the traffic lights of an intersection on Mae Jo Rd. His name was Josef Schueller (sp), German nationality.

It said he could have been shot for cutting in front of someone - speculation of course.

[Fishenough]

It's on the front page of Thai Rath today (can't see it on the website though).

He was shot at the traffic lights of an intersection on Mae Jo Rd. His name was Josef Schueller (sp), German nationality.

It said he could have been shot for cutting in front of someone - speculation of course.

Thank you Cmsally, the search function failed me. Was surprised to see that after posting and a quick ride to the office that there was 50 plus views on my other post.

Heard a similar story to electrified's today, ie 'road rage' ending horribly.

Everyone please drive carefully and courteously!

Condolences to his family.

[marquisfleur]

I live in the same neighborhood and was having dinner last night with one of the policemen who were at the scene. I heard the same details from him - young Thai in a car pulls up next to him and shoots him at a red light while on his motorcycle - all I can add was that Mr. Schuller was 43.

As safe as we may feel here, ex-pats should keep in mind that Thailand has the 3rd highest firearm homicide rate in the world behind South Africa and Columbia, and has a firearm homicide rate ten times higher than that of the US.

My condolences to Mr. Schuller's family.

[Mestizo]

I live in the same neighborhood and was having dinner last night with one of the policemen who were at the scene. I heard the same details from him - young Thai in a car pulls up next to him and shoots him at a red light while on his motorcycle - all I can add was that Mr. Schuller was 43.

As safe as we may feel here, ex-pats should keep in mind that Thailand has the 3rd highest firearm homicide rate in the world behind South Africa and Columbia, and has a firearm homicide rate ten times higher than that of the US.

My condolences to Mr. Schuller's family.

Out of curiosity, where did you derive those figures from?

-Mestizo

[Thaihog]

I live in the same neighborhood and was having dinner last night with one of the policemen who were at the scene. I heard the same details from him - young Thai in a car pulls up next to him and shoots him at a red light while on his motorcycle - all I can add was that Mr. Schuller was 43.

As safe as we may feel here, ex-pats should keep in mind that Thailand has the 3rd highest firearm homicide rate in the world behind South Africa and Columbia, and has a firearm homicide rate ten times higher than that of the US.

My condolences to Mr. Schuller's family.

Did the policeman mention if witnesses got the Thai's license number, have they caught the guy?

I must make a mental note to curb my road rage... to many people carrying guns over here...

[marquisfleur]

I live in the same neighborhood and was having dinner last night with one of the policemen who were at the scene. I heard the same details from him - young Thai in a car pulls up next to him and shoots him at a red light while on his motorcycle - all I can add was that Mr. Schuller was 43.

As safe as we may feel here, ex-pats should keep in mind that Thailand has the 3rd highest firearm homicide rate in the world behind South Africa and Columbia, and has a firearm homicide rate ten times higher than that of the US.

My condolences to Mr. Schuller's family.

Out of curiosity, where did you derive those figures from?

-Mestizo

Mestizo,

The figures come from a UNODC study - A Google search for "List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate" should bring it up.

[onnut]

Rip to the guy.

I really must try to cool it as well while driving here. I've probably got worse road rage then all of you lot put together.

I have some stories to tell but most members wouldonly say i am trolling!

[Donnyboy]

didnt think road rage happens here like that, gee i better think again

overall, i find it less confrontational compared to back home, and ive learnt to just go with the flow here

[Blinky Bill]

Road rage in Thailand is one sided, in my opinion. From what I have observed it is rare that a local will start carrying on over a minor incident on the road, those that I have see going into fits are usually non Thais, ie., farangs. Thai people rarely react immediately to the abuse but will eventually catch up with the "road rager" and deal with them in any way they see fit. This revenge could be minutes, hours, days or even weeks later.

There is also a chance of mistaken identity.

[FarangCravings]

Road rage in Thailand is one sided, in my opinion. From what I have observed it is rare that a local will start carrying on over a minor incident on the road, those that I have see going into fits are usually non Thais, ie., farangs. Thai people rarely react immediately to the abuse but will eventually catch up with the "road rager" and deal with them in any way they see fit. This revenge could be minutes, hours, days or even weeks later.

There is also a chance of mistaken identity.

Still no excuse to be shot dead whats fkin wrong with these people

RIP to a fellow biker

[ferd54]

Road rage in Thailand is one sided, in my opinion.

The one that sticks out in my mind was the traffic policeman in Fang who shot three abusive (Thai) motorists to death then committed suicide in 2005.

"The tragedy in Fang concerned a traffic policeman who shot three people in a car whose driver disobeyed his demands".

--Chiang Mai Mail

I myself have been chased in by raging Thai drivers a couple of times. Indeed they are capable of road rage for sure.

[Priceless]

I live in the same neighborhood and was having dinner last night with one of the policemen who were at the scene. I heard the same details from him - young Thai in a car pulls up next to him and shoots him at a red light while on his motorcycle - all I can add was that Mr. Schuller was 43.

As safe as we may feel here, ex-pats should keep in mind that Thailand has the 3rd highest firearm homicide rate in the world behind South Africa and Columbia, and has a firearm homicide rate ten times higher than that of the US.

My condolences to Mr. Schuller's family.

Out of curiosity, where did you derive those figures from?

-Mestizo

Mestizo,

The figures come from a UNODC study - A Google search for "List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate" should bring it up.

I have a suspicion (that you might be able to confirm) that your numbers come from here: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...s-with-firearms

In that case, I feel compelled to point out an oddity. According to that table, there were 20,032 murders by firearms in Thailand according to a UN report from 2002. According to another table on the same site ( http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders ) there were however "only" 5,140 total murders in Thailand in the same period. I don't know whether this should be interpreted as each victim having been shot with four bullets or in some other way

/ Priceless

[Paagai]

Very sad for the guy's family and a wake upcall for many living here. Whatever the full story is, which is always open to debate and interpretation in Thailand, a life lost always brings grief to someone who doesn't deserve it.

Earlier posts mentioned "teenager". As a general comment, one danger in CM that can exacerbate such incidents is the rampant substance abuse amongst the younger generation. It wouldn't be the first time in recent history that a farang has lost his life following an incident where a Thai has "lost face" whilst the balance of their mind was chemically disturbed, resulting in a violent reaction. Absolutely no implication that this was the case this time, but always something to consider when out and about.

[JungleJim]

I live in the same neighborhood and was having dinner last night with one of the policemen who were at the scene. I heard the same details from him - young Thai in a car pulls up next to him and shoots him at a red light while on his motorcycle - all I can add was that Mr. Schuller was 43.

As safe as we may feel here, ex-pats should keep in mind that Thailand has the 3rd highest firearm homicide rate in the world behind South Africa and Columbia, and has a firearm homicide rate ten times higher than that of the US.

My condolences to Mr. Schuller's family.

Out of curiosity, where did you derive those figures from?

-Mestizo

Mestizo,

The figures come from a UNODC study - A Google search for "List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate" should bring it up.

I have a suspicion (that you might be able to confirm) that your numbers come from here: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...s-with-firearms

In that case, I feel compelled to point out an oddity. According to that table, there were 20,032 murders by firearms in Thailand according to a UN report from 2002. According to another table on the same site ( http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders ) there were however "only" 5,140 total murders in Thailand in the same period. I don't know whether this should be interpreted as each victim having been shot with four bullets or in some other way

/ Priceless

it is possible that suicides by gun have also been included in this figure. I know it is titled murder by firearm, but a mistake in the naming of these stats could have occurred. It's a fact that a large number of gun related deaths throughout the world are suicides.

[Priceless]

I have a suspicion (that you might be able to confirm) that your numbers come from here: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...s-with-firearms

In that case, I feel compelled to point out an oddity. According to that table, there were 20,032 murders by firearms in Thailand according to a UN report from 2002. According to another table on the same site ( http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders ) there were however "only" 5,140 total murders in Thailand in the same period. I don't know whether this should be interpreted as each victim having been shot with four bullets or in some other way

/ Priceless

it is possible that suicides by gun have also been included in this figure. I know it is titled murder by firearm, but a mistake in the naming of these stats could have occurred. It's a fact that a large number of gun related deaths throughout the world are suicides.

Anything is possible. My point was really that that the Internet is full of information, but a lot of it is unfortunately incorrect

/ Priceless

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

except when its PCD data and then it's gospel ;-)

[johnh101]

Absolutely Horrific !

[Priceless]

except when its PCD data and then it's gospel ;-)

I was sort of expecting that comment

Seriously though: I am quite convinced that there are errors in the PCD data base (and in my copy of data from it). This is exactly why I regularly do tests of the credibility of the data. These can e.g. be tests of correlations between observations from neighbouring measuring stations, correlations between seasonal variations for different years for a given station, trend analysis and so on.

Tests such as these can never catch an individual typo or incorrect observation, but they would very probably catch any systematic error. In a database with more than 25,000 observations (such as my PCD data base) an individual error doesn't matter much, it disappears in the aggregates. When only the aggregates are available though, such as in the NationMaster data, a single typo throws the whole thing out the window.

This is why I always advise people to critically evaluate their data (in particular from the Internet), cross-check whenever possible, do whatever statistical quality analyses are possible etc.

The Internet is a wonderful source of data and information but it is also full of errors and 'factoids' ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoid ). To make full use of the 'net, one has to be equipped with a very critical and inquiring mind

/ Priceless

Edited January 13, 2010 by Priceless

[marquisfleur]

Priceless,

The two tables you cite were not from the same period. The first is from the The Eighth United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (2002), and the second table is from the Seventh United Nations Survey of the same name conducted in 1998.

The discrepancy over the 4 years however is surprising, and the reliability of the statistics are disputable as all figures listed in the survey are self-reported by the governments themselves.

However, the fact that in 2002, the Thai government reported a per-capita firearm homicide rate of 33 per 100,000 inhabitants - the third highest reported rate in the world - should be cause for alarm regardless of the report's overall reliability.

A more thorough breakdown of the 2002 survey can be found on Wikipedia - "List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate"

[Priceless]

Priceless,

The two tables you cite were not from the same period. The first is from the The Eighth United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (2002), and the second table is from the Seventh United Nations Survey of the same name conducted in 1998.

The discrepancy over the 4 years however is surprising, and the reliability of the statistics are disputable as all figures listed in the survey are self-reported by the governments themselves.

However, the fact that in 2002, the Thai government reported a per-capita firearm homicide rate of 33 per 100,000 inhabitants - the third highest reported rate in the world - should be cause for alarm regardless of the report's overall reliability.

A more thorough breakdown of the 2002 survey can be found on Wikipedia - "List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate"

My apologies, this is really However, looking at the NationMaster site, it gives as the source for both tables "The Eighth United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (2002) (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)".

Looking at the Wikipedia entry that you quote, it does give the murder-by-firearm rate as 33 per 100,000 inhabitants, like you say. However, if you look at the Wikipedia entry for total murder rate ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...l_homicide_rate ) it gives this rate as 7.92 per 100,000 inhabitants

I don't know who is quoting who between these two sites, but somewhere there must be an error. Maybe in the original reporting?

Anyway, may the victim of the crime that is the subject of this thread RIP.

/ Priceless

[Thaihog]

All this arguing about stats when somebodies life has been lost is a bit tasteless.

What most people would like to know I'm sure, is whether or not the police have a suspect, or is this yet another Farang killed and the perpetrator is not brought to justice.

Marquisfleur said that he had dinner with the policeman that attended the scene, he must have got some info, why not share...

TIT...

Edited January 13, 2010 by Thaihog

[Priceless]

All this arguing about stats when somebodies life has been lost is a bit tasteless.

What most people would like to know I'm sure, is whether or not the police have a suspect, or is this yet another Farang killed and the perpetrator is not brought to justice.

TIT...

I agree, my apologies for getting into the statistical discussion I guess that I have a serious hang-up about facts.

Again, may the victim RIP.

/ Priceless

[gotlost]

Thomas Josef Schuller. RIP .... Yes I knew him.

[mcgriffith]

Again, very sorry to hear about it.

RIP TJ Schuller.

I learned long ago that flipping other drivers off, or beeping unnecessarily, or being a <deleted>-style driver (not that I ever was one) are a definite no-go here. I could tell a few very scary stories on this involving other people, but now is not the appropriate time.

And I am not insinuating in any way that the deceased did any of the above. Just a cautionary aside to this post for the members who think they are bulletproof.

My condolences to his family.