Farang Shot And Killed In C.m.

[orang37]

... snip ... My mate looks like a right thug and you would not want to mess with him this did not stop the old codger from going up to him and slapping him right in the kisser my mate immediately told the thai guy not to do that and he did it again I was amazed when he told me he just drove away, when I asked him why he said the guy looked like he was quite wealthy and he thought it best to drive away and he did he was so angry and frustrated he said he cried

what a load of crap he stops to be polite and gets abused he is a way more sensible guy than me i would of acted a lot different then drove off.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun FarangCravings,

We think your friend showed outstanding "common sense," and "humanity" in this situation. It's inspiring to hear about it.

Every time my human uses his car (very rarely), he stops for one minute before getting in, and reflects on what he has seen happen on the roads here, and resolves to drive kindly, and with consideration for others to the extent that is possible given the fact that if you "impede" the flow (and speed) of trafffic you run a great risk of accident.

His mantra for propitiating the "hungry ghosts" (preta) of the Thai roads is : "yield, yield, yield."

thanks, ~o:37;

[FarangCravings]

... snip ... My mate looks like a right thug and you would not want to mess with him this did not stop the old codger from going up to him and slapping him right in the kisser my mate immediately told the thai guy not to do that and he did it again I was amazed when he told me he just drove away, when I asked him why he said the guy looked like he was quite wealthy and he thought it best to drive away and he did he was so angry and frustrated he said he cried

what a load of crap he stops to be polite and gets abused he is a way more sensible guy than me i would of acted a lot different then drove off.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun FarangCravings,

We think your friend showed outstanding "common sense," and "humanity" in this situation. It's inspiring to hear about it.

Every time my human uses his car (very rarely), he stops for one minute before getting in, and reflects on what he has seen happen on the roads here, and resolves to drive kindly, and with consideration for others to the extent that is possible given the fact that if you "impede" the flow (and speed) of trafffic you run a great risk of accident.

His mantra for propitiating the "hungry ghosts" (preta) of the Thai roads is : "yield, yield, yield."

thanks, ~o:37;

I understood about the first line of your post the rest was lost on me, I agree on his common sense but fail to accept after being assaulted twice how he contained his rage just because it was a thai I told him next time dont bother to stop and apologize just ride on just as they would.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I must be living in a dream world... I have driven here for 25 years, and I have never seen or experienced road rage, or ever witnessed an accident. I just do my driving and enjoy the experience

You must be living in a dream world, just last week you posted this:

A couple of years ago, during a light rain, I was driving my Pick up south of the hot springs. In a turn, I lost my traction and ended up with my truck flipping on its side... No injuries, thank god, but this is what my truck looked like..

Props to ovenman for having a good memory.

He did say 'or ever witnessed an accident'. I guess if your in the crash then would not count as being a witness. Technical loophole ?

Ajarnmai? any epilogue to this quandary?

Edited January 14, 2010 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[likite]

Again, very sorry to hear about it.

RIP TJ Schuller.

I learned long ago that flipping other drivers off, or beeping unnecessarily, or being a <deleted>-style driver (not that I ever was one) are a definite no-go here. I could tell a few very scary stories on this involving other people, but now is not the appropriate time.

And I am not insinuating in any way that the deceased did any of the above. Just a cautionary aside to this post for the members who think they are bulletproof.

My condolences to his family.

So what you are saying is take all the abuse and be quiet like a good little boy else a tiny thai guy will get out and shoot you with a big gun I am sorry i could not lower myself that low even at the risk of being shot by some crazed gun toting maniac thai.

Every day I go out and dodge the non existent driving skills of these people I have done 22,000km on my bike and some instances are beyond beleif and in the heat of the moment ive flipped off many a driver due to there maniac driving almost killing me I am not going to sit and do nothing and while flipping them off is childish its at least a bit of satisfaction

Just because some thais have a screw loose wont change my actions that I would do anywhere else i am a considerate driver except in near death experiences where the flip is an automatic body movement.

Never said I was an expert I merely responded to a a post that was deleted I simply said i will act just as a thai would should they cause me to lose face. whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

FarangCravings I do not totally agree with you but I really do undestand your views here as I think alot of other people do too. (but maybe a little reluctant to post for fear they get flamed or abused).

Your point about farangs losing face etc is so so true. Brilliant post.

[orang37]

... snip ... I understood about the first line of your post the rest was lost on me, I agree on his common sense but fail to accept after being assaulted twice how he contained his rage just because it was a thai I told him next time dont bother to stop and apologize just ride on just as they would.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun FarangCravings,

Just for clarity : we certainly believe he felt rage; he had every right to feel it : what we appreciate is that, in this case, he did not act on it in a way that would only have gotten him in deep-crap. And he was, in a way, able to release his feelings by crying.

We have been through a similar experience, and in the long run, the cost of swallowing some pride, was much less than the cost of going to jail in Thailand, exiting Thailand "persona non grata," or being killed, knifed, being stomped comatose by every Thai in the neighborhood who would have seen nothing but a farang striking an old man, etc.

Our guess is that he was so "shocked" by the first slap, that he remained in place long enough for a "second" slap, rather than immediately walking away.

best, ~o:37;

[Donnyboy]

I must be living in a dream world... I have driven here for 25 years, and I have never seen or experienced road rage, or ever witnessed an accident. I just do my driving and enjoy the experience

You must be living in a dream world, just last week you posted this:

A couple of years ago, during a light rain, I was driving my Pick up south of the hot springs. In a turn, I lost my traction and ended up with my truck flipping on its side... No injuries, thank god, but this is what my truck looked like..

he could have had his eyes closed at the time so didnt witness anything

[FarangCravings]

Again, very sorry to hear about it.

RIP TJ Schuller.

I learned long ago that flipping other drivers off, or beeping unnecessarily, or being a <deleted>-style driver (not that I ever was one) are a definite no-go here. I could tell a few very scary stories on this involving other people, but now is not the appropriate time.

And I am not insinuating in any way that the deceased did any of the above. Just a cautionary aside to this post for the members who think they are bulletproof.

My condolences to his family.

So what you are saying is take all the abuse and be quiet like a good little boy else a tiny thai guy will get out and shoot you with a big gun I am sorry i could not lower myself that low even at the risk of being shot by some crazed gun toting maniac thai.

Every day I go out and dodge the non existent driving skills of these people I have done 22,000km on my bike and some instances are beyond beleif and in the heat of the moment ive flipped off many a driver due to there maniac driving almost killing me I am not going to sit and do nothing and while flipping them off is childish its at least a bit of satisfaction

Just because some thais have a screw loose wont change my actions that I would do anywhere else i am a considerate driver except in near death experiences where the flip is an automatic body movement.

Never said I was an expert I merely responded to a a post that was deleted I simply said i will act just as a thai would should they cause me to lose face. whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

FarangCravings I do not totally agree with you but I really do undestand your views here as I think alot of other people do too. (but maybe a little reluctant to post for fear they get flamed or abused).

Your point about farangs losing face etc is so so true. Brilliant post.

Cheers

[el jefe]

I don't understand how so many of you can live here with your contempt for Thais. And then you get upset when some of them express the same contempt for foreigners who disrespect their customs?

I spend about 20-25 hours a week on the roads, but few of them at night. imho, Thailand has much less road rage than the west.

Try googling "road rage shooting". You'll get hundreds of incidents in the US, including at least one by an off-duty NYC police officer and one where a 69 year old woman and her 4 year old granddaughter were the victims. I'm sure Europe isn't much different.

My praise to the Thai police.

My condolences to the victims family.

[ferd54]

I don't understand how so many of you can live here with your contempt for Thais.

This is your comment after he gets two bullets in the back over a road incident?

The discussion embraces oft-debated subjects: Road safety and violence.

I lived in Chiang Mai for 14 years and saw about 20 people -- all Thai, mostly motorcycle drivers -- killed. Thais drive like inconsiderate half-wits, then get angry if you say something because they almost killed you. Then pull a gun out and shoot you?

I don't have contempt, I have flat out fear being on the roads with them.

Good luck. Just hope your number doesn't come up as you're minding your own business and driving "safely" down the road. These things happen very fast.

[femi fan]

All this arguing about stats when somebodies life has been lost is a bit tasteless.

What most people would like to know I'm sure, is whether or not the police have a suspect, or is this yet another Farang killed and the perpetrator is not brought to justice.

Marquisfleur said that he had dinner with the policeman that attended the scene, he must have got some info, why not share...

TIT...

No, it's just another human killed and the perpetrator is not brought to justice.

TIL (this is life)

[cloudhopper]

Well I must confess that I am among those who dispense the big bird somewhat liberally. Albeit only to silver vans overtaking head on into my lane, which occurs all too frequently on Rt. 1095.

Perhaps this tragedy will help me to be just a bit less offendable...

Edited January 14, 2010 by cloudhopper

[femi fan]

Unfortunately we still don't know if this was the result of road rage or some other dispute...

Whatever the dispute, to be gunned down in broad daylight at a busy intersection is beyond words. Absolutely outrageous. Add this one to the Kanchaburi and Pai shootings and you've really got to wonder what kind of society Thailand has.

RIP Herr Schuller.

It's a society like many others. Plenty of people are gunned down in broad daylight in other countries too.

I agree, it is outrageous, but to try and paint it as a peculiarly thai kind of thing, and as if it's commonplace is out of line. Three shootings you mention in how many years, and suddenly you paint all thais with your same broad brush. Unreal.

[katana]

Saw a bit about this in the Thai Rath yesterday. Apparently the German victim Thomas Joseph Schooler (sp?) was 43 and the gunman, Preecha Ratanahontorng (sp?), 39.

Witnesses took down the car's number plate (กห - 3210) and that's how the police were able to trace him. Initially he'd fled and was hiding in a field but on his arrest they found a Glock gun with 2 magazines and bullets in his possession, along with the car which had had it's number plate removed. He's denying involvement but there were many witnesses, who said the incident followed some kind of altercation where the vehicles cut each other up at the traffic lights.

Condolences to the victim's family.

http://www.thairath.co.th/content/region/58591

Edited January 14, 2010 by katana

[NADTATIDA1]

At least the police did there job quickly and i apprehended him.

Terrible loss of life for something so trivial. RIP.

[Puwa]

At least the police did there job quickly and i apprehended him.

Good job Nad!

[NaiGreg]

At least the police did there job quickly and i apprehended him.

Good job Nad!

Here Here!

Go Nad!

[personchester]

anyone know where to see details? or have them?

The victim is a German national in his mid forties riding a motorbike, and he is said to have nipped in and out of traffic lanes on a busy three lane h/way in San Sai, due to this he seems to have peeved one pickup driver who, whilst stopping at red lights, but with the facility to turn left at the junction whilst the light were still red, and therefore able to escape, stopped his car, went out of his car kicked the German man from his motorbike and then shot him several times, then run back to his car turned left whilst the lights were still red and escaped.

Nevertheless, the police have already arrested him, he is a 39 year old Thai national.

[el jefe]

I don't understand how so many of you can live here with your contempt for Thais.

This is your comment after he gets two bullets in the back over a road incident?

The discussion embraces oft-debated subjects: Road safety and violence.

I lived in Chiang Mai for 14 years and saw about 20 people -- all Thai, mostly motorcycle drivers -- killed. Thais drive like inconsiderate half-wits, then get angry if you say something because they almost killed you. Then pull a gun out and shoot you?

I don't have contempt, I have flat out fear being on the roads with them.

Good luck. Just hope your number doesn't come up as you're minding your own business and driving "safely" down the road. These things happen very fast.

Read my post again. It's sad but it happens all over the world, not just here in Thailand.

"... as you're minding your own business and driving "safely" down the road."

------------- That's not how this incident happened. Maybe you didn't read any of the posts. Do you equate "giving someone the finger" with "minding your own business"?

You are exactly who I was talking about when I wrote "I don't understand how so many of you can live here with your contempt for Thais."

[BigWheelMan]

I don't understand how so many of you can live here with your contempt for Thais.

This is your comment after he gets two bullets in the back over a road incident?

The discussion embraces oft-debated subjects: Road safety and violence.

I lived in Chiang Mai for 14 years and saw about 20 people -- all Thai, mostly motorcycle drivers -- killed. Thais drive like inconsiderate half-wits, then get angry if you say something because they almost killed you. Then pull a gun out and shoot you?

I don't have contempt, I have flat out fear being on the roads with them.

Good luck. Just hope your number doesn't come up as you're minding your own business and driving "safely" down the road. These things happen very fast.

Read my post again. It's sad but it happens all over the world, not just here in Thailand.

"... as you're minding your own business and driving "safely" down the road."

------------- That's not how this incident happened. Maybe you didn't read any of the posts. Do you equate "giving someone the finger" with "minding your own business"?

You are exactly who I was talking about when I wrote "I don't understand how so many of you can live here with your contempt for Thais."

Sad but true.

Having worked on the buses for several years, I am fully aware of the dangers of road rage.

The world is a dangerous place, if need be, grip your teeth and turn the other cheek, your life may depend on it, whether it be in Thailand or anywhere else.

[ferd54]

You are exactly who I was talking about when I wrote "I don't understand how so many of you can live here with your contempt for Thais."

I don't live "here" anymore -- had enough, and the road carnage was part of why I don't.

You don't have to give someone the finger to have a problem. Some knucklehead in his Izuzu pickup can easily do that for you.

I don't understand how so many of you can live there and continue to trot out the out the same old tired canard that people get killed in other countries too, so it's just fine in Thailand. Take a look at the kill rates. They're near the very the top of the list! Thailand is not the same as almost all other countries in the world.

Edited January 14, 2010 by ferd54

[jackr]

There was apparently another shooting (Thai) at the very same junction, but going in the other direction, yesterday.

[Loaded]

There was apparently another shooting (Thai) at the very same junction, but going in the other direction, yesterday.

I didn't know it was a shooting. I was heading north around 6pm and the traffic was very slow. As I came across the junction heading towards Maejo, I saw a large crowd and on the other side of the road a body lying on the road. I thought it was an accident until I read jackr's post.

The worst piece of driving I have seen along that road was a farang in a SUV. He pulled out of L&H and did a u-turn to head towards the city. Both lanes were busy so he decided to drive along the 'hard shoulder' which is pretty non-existent there at over 100km/hour - I was doing 80+ on the main carriageway. Any pedestrian or motorcyclist wouldn't have had a chance. Luckily none were in his way. Of course when he reached the next set of lights which had just turned red, he jumped them. A class 1 wanke_r.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Loaded

[ferd54]

Three shootings you mention in how many years, and suddenly you paint all thais with your same broad brush. Unreal.

The two I mentioned are memorable, but they are far, far from the only egregious killings that could be listed.

The Kanchanaburi murders stand out from the rest because a drunken policeman tried to hit on a Western girl (who with her boyfriend was drinking at a bar the policeman owned (!!)); the boyfriend gave him a good thumping for it, so he just executed them both.

Can you imagine if that happened in the US or England? Yet you apologists just want to say this is somehow the type of thing that happens in all countries.

Once you get clear of the smoke and mirrors of Thailand for a while and regain some perspective, you might shake your head and wonder how you could think this type of thing -- and the society that engenders it -- is somehow "normal".

Sure there are plenty of very good people in Thailand, but they just continue to look the other way, stick their head in the sand, and play all the elaborate greng jai games -- which is just a way of avoiding responsibility.

[jdinasia]

Can you imagine if that happened in the US or England?

Yes .. on a daily basis.

[OOB]

Can you imagine if that happened in the US or England?

Yes .. on a daily basis.

Please can you point me to one of the daily 'police shoots innocent tourists' news items from the US or England...or indeed anywhere in Europe, North America or Australasia?

Thanks...

[ferd54]

Please can you point me to one of the daily 'police shoots innocent tourists' news items from the US or England...or indeed anywhere in Europe, North America or Australasia?

Thanks...

Sorry, but it should be "Drunken veteran police sergeant executes tourist customers, goes to doctor to get nose fixed, cleans out bank account, flees the country."

Subhead could be: "But no one saw a thing on tourist spot's busiest road."

Doesn't that happen all the time in Wichita or Birmingham?

[jdinasia]

More than one in three officer involved shootings involve unarmed people.

Google "unarmed shot by off duty officer" ... but since the topic is the unfortunate demise of a farang here in Thaiand and does not involve any police officers other than those apprehending the shooter, it is a moot point.

My condolences to the family of the victim.

[ferd54]

More than one in three officer involved shootings involve unarmed people.

Google "unarmed shot by off duty officer" ... but since the topic is the unfortunate demise of a farang here in Thaiand and does not involve any police officers other than those apprehending the shooter, it is a moot point.

My condolences to the family of the victim.

I know we're off-topic, but folks just blithely throw these assertions out as if it they're absolute proof.

I googled exactly that, and on the results of first page found these incidents:

Off-duty policemen in the US who shot people while:

• Attempting to detain a man after a hit-and-run collision
  
• Intervening when he saw a man pistol-whipping another man who jumped into a sport utility vehicle.
  
• While riding his own motorcycle a group of four to six men attacked Dornay … Dornay shot one of the men with his service weapon, a .40-caliber Glock.
  
• Neighbors say the fight spilled out of a party at the officer's home … Tepper claimed he was in fear for his life; other witnesses say the unarmed Panas posed no threat.
  

A little different than:

• While drunk, sexually harassing a customer in his own bar, executed the male, then got in his car and ran over the female as she tried to flee, and then executed her
  

Anyway, I'll leave it be. Actually I'm trying to speak up in defense of the deceased. Like so often in Thailand, some are trying to blame the victim.

Edited January 15, 2010 by ferd54

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The US has 6 times the population and of course easier to find on google with english queries. Looking at specific examples in each country to determine which is better or worse is really unsound at best.

It's like saying Cancer in Thailand cannot be bad because there is plenty of cancer in Denmark or the US. Really? how stupid do you think T.V. members are? Rhetorical question. Please nobody start answering that.

Accidents, violence and criminal activity occur in ALL countries. What is valuable is to look at overall statistics adjusted to a common metric to establish relative probability of occurance and rate of change.

It seems the road safety and gun homicide rates in Thailand are not so attractive. Priceless exited this thread like there was a fire so maybe it's not so spin worthy.

Anyone do any research to share on comparisons. Specifically Chiang Mai city or province data would be interesting.

[ferd54]

Anyone do any research to share on comparisons.

We've been over this ground before, I know, but please note that according to the following data, Thailand's murder rate with firearms is almost 10 times (!) that of Mexico:

Murders with firearms per capita by country:

(From nationmaster.com)

# 1 South Africa: 0.719782 per 1,000 people

# 2 Colombia: 0.509801 per 1,000 people

# 3 Thailand: 0.312093 per 1,000 people

# 4 Zimbabwe: 0.0491736 per 1,000 people

# 5 Mexico: 0.0337938 per 1,000 people

# 6 Belarus: 0.0321359 per 1,000 people

# 7 Costa Rica: 0.0313745 per 1,000 people

# 8 United States: 0.0279271 per 1,000 people

# 9 Uruguay: 0.0245902 per 1,000 people

# 10 Lithuania: 0.0230748 per 1,000 people

# 11 Slovakia: 0.021543 per 1,000 people

# 12 Czech Republic: 0.0207988 per 1,000 people

# 13 Estonia: 0.0157539 per 1,000 people

# 14 Latvia: 0.0131004 per 1,000 people

# 15 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of: 0.0127139 per 1,000 people

# 16 Bulgaria: 0.00845638 per 1,000 people

# 17 Portugal: 0.00795003 per 1,000 people

# 18 Slovenia: 0.00596718 per 1,000 people

# 19 Switzerland: 0.00534117 per 1,000 people

# 20 Canada: 0.00502972 per 1,000 people

# 21 Germany: 0.00465844 per 1,000 people

# 22 Moldova: 0.00448934 per 1,000 people

# 23 Hungary: 0.00439692 per 1,000 people

# 24 Poland: 0.0043052 per 1,000 people

# 25 Ukraine: 0.00368109 per 1,000 people

# 26 Ireland: 0.00298805 per 1,000 people

# 27 Australia: 0.00293678 per 1,000 people

# 28 Denmark: 0.00257732 per 1,000 people

# 29 Spain: 0.0024045 per 1,000 people

# 30 Azerbaijan: 0.00227503 per 1,000 people

# 31 New Zealand: 0.00173482 per 1,000 people

# 32 United Kingdom: 0.00102579 per 1,000 people