Racism In Thailand

[phetaroi]

Same goes at the 711 store. I bring my grocery basket and wait politely in line, and watch what's happening, and every now and then some rapscallion will push in front of me because they see I am farang, and if the checkout girl doesn't see it and get to me before the butterinnerer, then I just change shops after that. I am not an animal.

I just don't agree. Whether it's waiting for the Skytrain or at McDonalds or at the post office, I see Thais push right in front of Thais all the time. It seems to me you are looking for racism...and as with most things, if you constantly for something you will find it...at least in what your perceive.

[Richard W]

You get charged in an nhs hospital as a non uk citizen because all british citizens pay national insurance that goes to providing the NHS. If your a non uk citizen you dont pay contributions therefore you dont qualify for free treatment.

You've confused resident and national.

[Pakboong]

Having read the entire thread twice, I am surprised there is little or no mention of the discrimination exerted upon ethnic Thais by ethnic Chinese. Yesterday, it was reported here that Baht105,000,000,000 was reported to the government by Thai citizens who owe loansharks. Anybody who thinks that most of these loansharks are Thais are sadly mistaken. Almost all gold shops, banks and thus all usery in this country is managed by the Chinese. These Chinese are just doing what makes them a decent living. Many would argue that there is little wrong with that. All of Thai media is Chinese controlled. If you go to a major international hospital in Thailand it is likely you will be seen by a Chinese doctor.

The discrimination methods that seems to work best are to control wage, education and usery. Usery will eventually secure the entire country for the Chinese. They will own the vast majority of the land. They carry Thai passports so yes, they can own property here. Thais are way undereducated compared to the Thai/Chinese because they cannot afford the same schools which are also mostly controlled by the Chinese. The Chinese work harder and spend more to keep Thai kids out than to keep their own kids in. I have 37 years of experience with this to include two major sports associations in the country that are both Chinese controlled. The president, vice president, and secretary of the association are Chinese. Most of the coaches and administrators are Chinese and Thais really have a hard time getting in. If they do manage to get it, they are hassled and discriminated against until they give up and quit. They are also priced out of the market. This goes back to controlling wage.

Wilk indicates 14,000,000 Ethnic Chinese live in Thailand. Also according to Wilk, the average IQ in Thailand is 91. One has to assume that the 14,000,000 Chinese with an average IQ of something like 109 are factored in as Thais and that the entire ethnic Thai IQ is much lower and is only 91 as a result of including the Chinese.

The Chinese do not want Farangs in Thailand to a much greater degree than do the ethnic Thais. They simply do not want competition. This is only opinion as I cannot prove it but to me, it is plausible. We give money to the impoverished Ethnic Thais thereby forcing the Chinese to work a bit harder for the control they want. This is all a macro opinion so it would be easy to find exceptions as there are many I am sure.

Go back to the ethnic make-up of the last 30 prime ministers, you will find the word Chinese indicated in the majority of the cases. The Chinese have a heavy influence on all lawmaking in this country to say the least. Any law limiting a farang is more likely Chinese based than Thai.

It is funny how the Thais are programmed to call the Thai/Chinese Hi So instead of Chinese. My wife calls them Chinese and claims she can detect a bit of an accent even when they are several generations in this country probably because many speak Chinese in the privacy of their homes.

The Thai rice farmer sells his rice for something like Baht8.5 per kilo and the Chinese middle men turn a huge profit before it ends up on the shelves of Lotus. None of this is really a big secret but it is not talked about and when talked about, done so in a whisper.

I probably would not want to live here if the Chinese were not in control so I am not complaining. I simply am surprised that it hasn't come up.

[PeaceBlondie]

I live in a 200 year old Chinese village in Cniang Mai province. I suspect my neighbors are far more Thai than Chinese by now.

[anchan42]

Why is it that most thais have no idea about the world except possibly the countries sharing Thailand' boundaries? Nor do they seem to want to learn more.

Isn't that true for almost every countries? Students who go to the west for studying often get asked "Do you ride elephant to school?" or "Thailand where?"

or "Your capital is Taipei, right?"

Do Thais treat you differently? Yes of course they do becuase you are different. Do they look down on you or do they think you don't deserve to live because of your skin color? Some might but most don't.

Is Thai racism as a nation? Not in my book but if you want to look at it that way, of course you can. If you want to you can say that we are all stupid sods who hate each other guts.

If you don't want to be called dam or black or chocolate man then tell them. Don't be surprised if some Thais will bacame less friendly.

Edited January 20, 2010 by anchan42

[geriatrickid]

Pakboong, maybe I have misread, but your contribution seems to be a very negative portrayal of the ethnic Chinese. You leave the impression that these people all move in one coordinated movement and are organized in some vast conspiracy. It is somewhat unsettling. I have one question for you. Have you ever asked some of the people who or what they are? I believe that most would offer that they are Thai and not "chinese". I don't think too many of these people would wish to trade the limited freedoms they have in Thailand for the police state of China. In that regard, I believe they have alot in common with ethnic groups in the USA, Australia, UK etc. Yes there are now sizeable segments that identify more with their religious beliefs in those countries, but ask Tony Soprano in New Jersey what he is and he'll say American. Ask Jimmy Wong in Sydney and he'll say Australian and so on.

I think you are overplaying the physical appearance and ethnic heritage of people and how it impacts their view in the country. When an Asian moves to Texas, does the asian aspect of the heritage preclude that immigrant from becoming a part of the nation and his/her kids becoming 100% American? When the Carribean people emigrated to the UK back in the 1950's they integrated into the society. I think if you ask the 3rd generation of these immigrnts what they are, some guy ise not going to say I'm an African because my skin is of dark complexion. He will most likely say, piss off you twit, I'm an Englishman.

I suggest that you under estimate the need to belong, to be a part of something. Absent of a major belief, the trend of youth is to assimilate. The Chinese diaspora may look Chinese on the outside but on the inside after a few generations and in the absence of hostility, they become part of the society around them. Look at the population of Surin. So many are Khmer and yet they consider themselves Thai. I do not believe the ethnic Chinese are any different.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with the gist of what you have written.

[Tejas]

Pakboong, maybe I have misread, but your contribution seems to be a very negative portrayal of the ethnic Chinese. You leave the impression that these people all move in one coordinated movement and are organized in some vast conspiracy. It is somewhat unsettling. I have one question for you. Have you ever asked some of the people who or what they are? I believe that most would offer that they are Thai and not "chinese". I don't think too many of these people would wish to trade the limited freedoms they have in Thailand for the police state of China. In that regard, I believe they have alot in common with ethnic groups in the USA, Australia, UK etc. Yes there are now sizeable segments that identify more with their religious beliefs in those countries, but ask Tony Soprano in New Jersey what he is and he'll say American. Ask Jimmy Wong in Sydney and he'll say Australian and so on.

I think you are overplaying the physical appearance and ethnic heritage of people and how it impacts their view in the country. When an Asian moves to Texas, does the asian aspect of the heritage preclude that immigrant from becoming a part of the nation and his/her kids becoming 100% American? When the Carribean people emigrated to the UK back in the 1950's they integrated into the society. I think if you ask the 3rd generation of these immigrnts what they are, some guy ise not going to say I'm an African because my skin is of dark complexion. He will most likely say, piss off you twit, I'm an Englishman.

I suggest that you under estimate the need to belong, to be a part of something. Absent of a major belief, the trend of youth is to assimilate. The Chinese diaspora may look Chinese on the outside but on the inside after a few generations and in the absence of hostility, they become part of the society around them. Look at the population of Surin. So many are Khmer and yet they consider themselves Thai. I do not believe the ethnic Chinese are any different.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with the gist of what you have written.

I spend a lot of time in China and have found the Chinese people to be less xenophobic and racist than Thais (far less).

The Chinese seem genuinely interested in Westerners.

Certainly, in terms of the police/immigration, I do not feel the same sort of BIG BROTHER oppression in China as I feel in Thailand.

Chinese TV is one exception, but I don't watch TV. Also, you can't talk about Mao. Other than that, I just don't feel what people say I am supposed to feel: massive oppression.

Myth vs reality. I really think you have to live in both places to separate the two (and have an open mind).

Yes, the Govt. of China has done some bad things on a big scale. But Thailand has done similar things on a smaller scale.

I think if Thailand was as big and powerful as China, it would be doing bad things on a big scale.

[anchan42]

Same goes at the 711 store. I bring my grocery basket and wait politely in line, and watch what's happening, and every now and then some rapscallion will push in front of me because they see I am farang, and if the checkout girl doesn't see it and get to me before the butterinnerer, then I just change shops after that. I am not an animal.

I feel sorry for you. You must have a very misable life. There can't be many shops left that you want to go to and I supposed you have never been driving in Thailand.

Majority of Thais don't know how to queue. They will do that no matter what you race is. You will simply have to tell them off.

I have done so many times and still live.

[Pakboong]

Pakboong, maybe I have misread, but your contribution seems to be a very negative portrayal of the ethnic Chinese. You leave the impression that these people all move in one coordinated movement and are organized in some vast conspiracy. It is somewhat unsettling. I have one question for you. Have you ever asked some of the people who or what they are? I believe that most would offer that they are Thai and not "chinese". I don't think too many of these people would wish to trade the limited freedoms they have in Thailand for the police state of China. In that regard, I believe they have alot in common with ethnic groups in the USA, Australia, UK etc. Yes there are now sizeable segments that identify more with their religious beliefs in those countries, but ask Tony Soprano in New Jersey what he is and he'll say American. Ask Jimmy Wong in Sydney and he'll say Australian and so on.

I think you are overplaying the physical appearance and ethnic heritage of people and how it impacts their view in the country. When an Asian moves to Texas, does the asian aspect of the heritage preclude that immigrant from becoming a part of the nation and his/her kids becoming 100% American? When the Carribean people emigrated to the UK back in the 1950's they integrated into the society. I think if you ask the 3rd generation of these immigrnts what they are, some guy ise not going to say I'm an African because my skin is of dark complexion. He will most likely say, piss off you twit, I'm an Englishman.

I suggest that you under estimate the need to belong, to be a part of something. Absent of a major belief, the trend of youth is to assimilate. The Chinese diaspora may look Chinese on the outside but on the inside after a few generations and in the absence of hostility, they become part of the society around them. Look at the population of Surin. So many are Khmer and yet they consider themselves Thai. I do not believe the ethnic Chinese are any different.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with the gist of what you have written.

It may not be negative if you believe it is in the best interest of the country to have this particular arrangement. If you read my entire post, I mentioned I would probably not want to live here if I did not believe the better educated and seemingly more capable Chinese were in control of the country.

[Pakboong]

Pakboong, maybe I have misread, but your contribution seems to be a very negative portrayal of the ethnic Chinese. You leave the impression that these people all move in one coordinated movement and are organized in some vast conspiracy. It is somewhat unsettling. I have one question for you. Have you ever asked some of the people who or what they are? I believe that most would offer that they are Thai and not "chinese". I don't think too many of these people would wish to trade the limited freedoms they have in Thailand for the police state of China. In that regard, I believe they have alot in common with ethnic groups in the USA, Australia, UK etc. Yes there are now sizeable segments that identify more with their religious beliefs in those countries, but ask Tony Soprano in New Jersey what he is and he'll say American. Ask Jimmy Wong in Sydney and he'll say Australian and so on.

I think you are overplaying the physical appearance and ethnic heritage of people and how it impacts their view in the country. When an Asian moves to Texas, does the asian aspect of the heritage preclude that immigrant from becoming a part of the nation and his/her kids becoming 100% American? When the Carribean people emigrated to the UK back in the 1950's they integrated into the society. I think if you ask the 3rd generation of these immigrnts what they are, some guy ise not going to say I'm an African because my skin is of dark complexion. He will most likely say, piss off you twit, I'm an Englishman.

I suggest that you under estimate the need to belong, to be a part of something. Absent of a major belief, the trend of youth is to assimilate. The Chinese diaspora may look Chinese on the outside but on the inside after a few generations and in the absence of hostility, they become part of the society around them. Look at the population of Surin. So many are Khmer and yet they consider themselves Thai. I do not believe the ethnic Chinese are any different.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with the gist of what you have written.

I think you misread. In my last paragraph I stated that I probably wouldn't want to live here if the Chinese were not in control of the country. It is not negative if one believes that this particular arrangement is in his/her own best interest. My point is that it is seldom factored into discussions on discrimination such as this one. If you think usery, for example, is bad then perhaps you would take my comments as being negative.

[Loz]

Pakboong,

Thank you for your insight! Really thought provoking stuff there! (which was (as the subtitle suggests) the entire purpose of this thread. NOT complaining about treatment. I know that will get lost on "some" though. No big deal.

[kikoman]

I would question who was ignorant on the point in your post that Thai youth purchase Swastika shirt, the historical use of the Swastika, was not born in Europe in the World War II years,

Google the meaning of the ancient use of that Symbol and its relevance to Asia ,as well to the Native Americans in the US.

THE_ANCIENT_SWASTIKA_SYMBOL.doc

See what its meaning is in Thailand, vs its use in Europe and the US, by Neo Nazi groups To day!

I thought the Swastika was the reverse of the ancient Buddhist symbol.

The Swastika has been used by many nations/ people world wide since way before the birth of Christ, it is held in great reverence by the Hindu,Buddhist and other religions and Native American Tribes.

In Thailand people, especially the younger generation, see the symbol in a different light then persons of the west do.

Westerners should not be ignorant of its meaning in Thailand and Asia, before making their shortsighted value judgements. Here is a attachment on the use of the symbol before WW II.

You can google on Swastika: use before WW II !

swastika_1_.html

Cheers:

Edited January 20, 2010 by kikoman

[Pakboong]

Pakboong, maybe I have misread, but your contribution seems to be a very negative portrayal of the ethnic Chinese. You leave the impression that these people all move in one coordinated movement and are organized in some vast conspiracy. It is somewhat unsettling. I have one question for you. Have you ever asked some of the people who or what they are? I believe that most would offer that they are Thai and not "chinese". I don't think too many of these people would wish to trade the limited freedoms they have in Thailand for the police state of China. In that regard, I believe they have alot in common with ethnic groups in the USA, Australia, UK etc. Yes there are now sizeable segments that identify more with their religious beliefs in those countries, but ask Tony Soprano in New Jersey what he is and he'll say American. Ask Jimmy Wong in Sydney and he'll say Australian and so on.

I think you are overplaying the physical appearance and ethnic heritage of people and how it impacts their view in the country. When an Asian moves to Texas, does the asian aspect of the heritage preclude that immigrant from becoming a part of the nation and his/her kids becoming 100% American? When the Carribean people emigrated to the UK back in the 1950's they integrated into the society. I think if you ask the 3rd generation of these immigrnts what they are, some guy ise not going to say I'm an African because my skin is of dark complexion. He will most likely say, piss off you twit, I'm an Englishman.

I suggest that you under estimate the need to belong, to be a part of something. Absent of a major belief, the trend of youth is to assimilate. The Chinese diaspora may look Chinese on the outside but on the inside after a few generations and in the absence of hostility, they become part of the society around them. Look at the population of Surin. So many are Khmer and yet they consider themselves Thai. I do not believe the ethnic Chinese are any different.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with the gist of what you have written.

I spend a lot of time in China and have found the Chinese people to be less xenophobic and racist than Thais (far less).

The Chinese seem genuinely interested in Westerners.

Certainly, in terms of the police/immigration, I do not feel the same sort of BIG BROTHER oppression in China as I feel in Thailand.

Chinese TV is one exception, but I don't watch TV. Also, you can't talk about Mao. Other than that, I just don't feel what people say I am supposed to feel: massive oppression.

Myth vs reality. I really think you have to live in both places to separate the two (and have an open mind).

Yes, the Govt. of China has done some bad things on a big scale. But Thailand has done similar things on a smaller scale.

I think if Thailand was as big and powerful as China, it would be doing bad things on a big scale.

China is communist country, the vast majority of Thai/Chinese living in Thailand IMO are not now nor ever have been communists. They are capitalist in the truest sense of the word. They do not want proletariat control of anything. I woulld also argue that most of us Farangs living in Thailand are not communists or Marxists and do not want proletariat control of the country.

[Bagwan]

China is communist country, the vast majority of Thai/Chinese living in Thailand IMO are not now nor ever have been communists. They are capitalist in the truest sense of the word. They do not want proletariat control of anything. I woulld also argue that most of us Farangs living in Thailand are not communists or Marxists and do not want proletariat control of the country.

So you would support the status quo in LoS? I suspect that a great many people in Thailand, natives and farangs, would be mightily pleased should there be an outbreak of democracy.

[wintermute]

Pakboong, maybe I have misread, but your contribution seems to be a very negative portrayal of the ethnic Chinese. You leave the impression that these people all move in one coordinated movement and are organized in some vast conspiracy. It is somewhat unsettling. I have one question for you. Have you ever asked some of the people who or what they are? I believe that most would offer that they are Thai and not "chinese". I don't think too many of these people would wish to trade the limited freedoms they have in Thailand for the police state of China. In that regard, I believe they have alot in common with ethnic groups in the USA, Australia, UK etc. Yes there are now sizeable segments that identify more with their religious beliefs in those countries, but ask Tony Soprano in New Jersey what he is and he'll say American. Ask Jimmy Wong in Sydney and he'll say Australian and so on.

I think you are overplaying the physical appearance and ethnic heritage of people and how it impacts their view in the country. When an Asian moves to Texas, does the asian aspect of the heritage preclude that immigrant from becoming a part of the nation and his/her kids becoming 100% American? When the Carribean people emigrated to the UK back in the 1950's they integrated into the society. I think if you ask the 3rd generation of these immigrnts what they are, some guy ise not going to say I'm an African because my skin is of dark complexion. He will most likely say, piss off you twit, I'm an Englishman.

I suggest that you under estimate the need to belong, to be a part of something. Absent of a major belief, the trend of youth is to assimilate. The Chinese diaspora may look Chinese on the outside but on the inside after a few generations and in the absence of hostility, they become part of the society around them. Look at the population of Surin. So many are Khmer and yet they consider themselves Thai. I do not believe the ethnic Chinese are any different.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with the gist of what you have written.

It may not be negative if you believe it is in the best interest of the country to have this particular arrangement. If you read my entire post, I mentioned I would probably not want to live here if I did not believe the better educated and seemingly more capable Chinese were in control of the country.

So do you believe Jews are in control of the U.S. and what do you think about returning to the gold standard as a form of world currency?

Also, if you are from the U.S. how do you feel about Ron Paul?

[nasajsc]

Or maybe all the dark skinned people are happier driving tuk tuks, farming and other endevours that will help keep them dark?

classic statement! i suggest you find a name that is slightly derogatory to them, to the same level that you feel cut,

and use it on them, see how they feel - if they act up, som nam na - thats the only way to teach them. try "kwai sia keow"

[rgs2001uk]

Or maybe all the dark skinned people are happier driving tuk tuks, farming and other endevours that will help keep them dark?

classic statement! i suggest you find a name that is slightly derogatory to them, to the same level that you feel cut,

and use it on them, see how they feel - if they act up, som nam na - thats the only way to teach them. try "kwai sia keow"

Dont think they would understand, perhaps you meant to write, ควายสีเขียว, kwaai see kieow.

[nasajsc]

Or maybe all the dark skinned people are happier driving tuk tuks, farming and other endevours that will help keep them dark?

classic statement! i suggest you find a name that is slightly derogatory to them, to the same level that you feel cut,

and use it on them, see how they feel - if they act up, som nam na - thats the only way to teach them. try "kwai sia keow"

Dont think they would understand, perhaps you meant to write, ควายสีเขียว, kwaai see kieow.

yep, white buffalo... if they call the fella names and he gets offended, he can reply with calling

them a white buffalo, for example...

Edited January 21, 2010 by nasajsc

[Geekfreaklover]

Thailand is easily one of the most racist countries in the world. Racist against their own people, racist against foreign people, racist against anyone that doesn't sit highly within the rich social tapestry that fabricates their society. It will not change for hundreds of years. Those westerners, of whatever colour, that feel that they are 'fitting in' are simply deluding themselves. Racism is rife in Thailand.

[phetaroi]

Thailand is easily one of the most racist countries in the world. Racist against their own people, racist against foreign people, racist against anyone that doesn't sit highly within the rich social tapestry that fabricates their society. It will not change for hundreds of years. Those westerners, of whatever colour, that feel that they are 'fitting in' are simply deluding themselves. Racism is rife in Thailand.

Why do you choose to live in a country you view in that way?

And, BTW, you don't know (or understand) the definition of racism.

[Pakboong]

Pakboong, maybe I have misread, but your contribution seems to be a very negative portrayal of the ethnic Chinese. You leave the impression that these people all move in one coordinated movement and are organized in some vast conspiracy. It is somewhat unsettling. I have one question for you. Have you ever asked some of the people who or what they are? I believe that most would offer that they are Thai and not "chinese". I don't think too many of these people would wish to trade the limited freedoms they have in Thailand for the police state of China. In that regard, I believe they have alot in common with ethnic groups in the USA, Australia, UK etc. Yes there are now sizeable segments that identify more with their religious beliefs in those countries, but ask Tony Soprano in New Jersey what he is and he'll say American. Ask Jimmy Wong in Sydney and he'll say Australian and so on.

I think you are overplaying the physical appearance and ethnic heritage of people and how it impacts their view in the country. When an Asian moves to Texas, does the asian aspect of the heritage preclude that immigrant from becoming a part of the nation and his/her kids becoming 100% American? When the Carribean people emigrated to the UK back in the 1950's they integrated into the society. I think if you ask the 3rd generation of these immigrnts what they are, some guy ise not going to say I'm an African because my skin is of dark complexion. He will most likely say, piss off you twit, I'm an Englishman.

I suggest that you under estimate the need to belong, to be a part of something. Absent of a major belief, the trend of youth is to assimilate. The Chinese diaspora may look Chinese on the outside but on the inside after a few generations and in the absence of hostility, they become part of the society around them. Look at the population of Surin. So many are Khmer and yet they consider themselves Thai. I do not believe the ethnic Chinese are any different.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with the gist of what you have written.

It may not be negative if you believe it is in the best interest of the country to have this particular arrangement. If you read my entire post, I mentioned I would probably not want to live here if I did not believe the better educated and seemingly more capable Chinese were in control of the country.

So do you believe Jews are in control of the U.S. and what do you think about returning to the gold standard as a form of world currency?

Also, if you are from the U.S. how do you feel about Ron Paul?

A bit off topic but if you would like to discuss privately, PM me.

I believe a form of Apartheid exists in Thailand imposed on the proletariat by the Thai Chinese minority. If for example, an ethnic Thai from the north east with a masters degree commands a starting salary less than baht20,000 a month and Thai Chinese with a similar education commands well more than twice that amount for the same job, that is serious discrimination. I can cite many such real examples. It is simply ignored/tolerated here. I am not however, prepared to say that I would rather live in Zimbabwe than the former Rhodesia. I feel that racism exists, to some degree, everywhere; more so in Thailand than most other places I have lived and visited.

[carmine]

Thailand is easily one of the most racist countries in the world. Racist against their own people, racist against foreign people, racist against anyone that doesn't sit highly within the rich social tapestry that fabricates their society. It will not change for hundreds of years. Those westerners, of whatever colour, that feel that they are 'fitting in' are simply deluding themselves. Racism is rife in Thailand.

After six pages of posts this is it in a nutshell

[Huey]

You ever wonder why this harmless fun was deemed unacceptable in so many western countries? Possibly because it leads to Harmful fun? Like girls in high school being told they can't be in the cheer leading squad because of their ugly black skin. But why stop there?

How many thai teen idols can you show me with Dark skin?

How many thai news readers can you show me with Dark skin?

How many Air hostess?

How many Models?

Ever seen a 7 11 without skin whitening deodorant?

So possibly this name calling leads on to less opportunity in later life? Or maybe all the dark skinned people are happier driving tuk tuks, farming and other endevours that will help keep them dark?

Funnily Racism in England never really troubled me, perhaps because anywhere that it mattered it had been demonised. Anywhere it didn't matter I rarely or never frequented. Football terraces, known NF pubs and the like.

Interesting that the first responses are very dismissive. It would be nice to think that this meant the respondants came to thailand with an open nonjudgemental mind and heart. "Everyone is my brother" enblazenend under their visa stamp.

Heres hoping.

I find it odd that I like it here so much with the strong under current of "white is right" running so strong and so near the surface. Sh_it, it is ON the surface, who am I kidding!

Any black folks care to offer their two penneth?

Ok, here's my 2 penneth....

I noticed that self hating racism here as soon as I came to Thailand like 9 years ago now. All that skin whitening BS like in India. All the commercials that basically say, unless your white skinned your not: Beautiful, smart, successful, wealthy, popular or really anything better than a lowly maid...

yes I saw all that. BUT I have seen this before, not personally because I'm just in my early 30's but I read about it and heard about it from my family.

In the USA Black people there had the same hang ups for a lil while. We would buy all kinds of early whitening creams (that would REALLY burn your ass) to be more light skinned. We would use chemicals to straighten our hair (Men as well as women) And worse we were still caught up in the "Willie Lynchisim" type divide and conquer mentality that white slave owners started by separating dark skinned captives from their light skinned ones and treating the light skinned ones a lil better than the darker ones.

My grandad even remembers when a church not far from my old house in Philly, called "White Rock Baptist Church" would not allow you to be come a member unless you where no darker than a brown paper bag.

That was screwed up for awhile. But then the 60's came and we just got tired of hating ourselves. We promoted "Black is beautiful" and now you see black people of every shade in movies TV commercials, adds, everywhere. You don't see the creams and skin bleaching shit around much at all any more. And black women generally are much more comfortable about their appearance than their white American counter parts.

What Thais need to do is stop hating on themselves. Pathetic really... how is it that we Black Americans can break out of that skin bleaching madness in 50 years, but Thailand and India still can't get a clue after THOUSANDS of years.

You know what, they bring this on themselves, I don't feel sorry for them, They have such deep wells of nationalistic Thai Pride. Yet they let the Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese tell them whats beautiful????

The only people that will stop that are themselves.

No personally as far as They have treated me here, I'm happy. Very Happy, the only racism I ever encountered here in Thailand has been from 1 or 2 white british expats.

Now do I see things like the "Black man" Cleaning products, and the Herb Toothpaste commercial that had a big black man climbing up a pole looking like a monkey, Yes of course. But directly, no Thais never came at me with something I would consider racist. Nothing from my Thai friends, nothing from my Wife's family.

[ballpoint]

yep, white buffalo... if they call the fella names and he gets offended, he can reply with calling

them a white buffalo, for example...

Except you're calling them a green buffalo.

[ballpoint]

Thailand is easily one of the most racist countries in the world. Racist against their own people, racist against foreign people, racist against anyone that doesn't sit highly within the rich social tapestry that fabricates their society. It will not change for hundreds of years. Those westerners, of whatever colour, that feel that they are 'fitting in' are simply deluding themselves. Racism is rife in Thailand.

After six pages of posts this is it in a nutshell

No, this is just typical of anyone unable to adjust to Thailand blaming the Thais rather than themselves. Blaming an entire people because you can't fit in. Sounds like a form of racism to me. My "delusion" is a very happy one. I hope I never wake up from it.

[Huey]

Thailand is easily one of the most racist countries in the world. Racist against their own people, racist against foreign people, racist against anyone that doesn't sit highly within the rich social tapestry that fabricates their society. It will not change for hundreds of years. Those westerners, of whatever colour, that feel that they are 'fitting in' are simply deluding themselves. Racism is rife in Thailand.

After six pages of posts this is it in a nutshell

No, this is just typical of anyone unable to adjust to Thailand blaming the Thais rather than themselves. Blaming an entire people because you can't fit in. Sounds like a form of racism to me. My "delusion" is a very happy one. I hope I never wake up from it.

Well said Ballpoint very well said, even with the odds stacked against me I managed to fit in just fine, I love my life here and it's rare that I ever feel like I'm truly out of place. I never feel like I'm Thai, but I always feel at home.

[geriatrickid]

The skin "whitening" stuff really bugs me. I have had several friends that will lather themselves in all of it and put on the goop before they go out. I even had one friend who's girlfriend would powder him. Is it really racism that causes them to do that or is it the social divide? Issan people can be a bit darker. One of my buddies was so pleased when he worked in Bangkok and morphed into one of those ghostly pallor skin tones. He said people didn't automatically assume he was from Issan and assume he was the office mailboy. Whenever I get into an argument with another of my friends he is prone to scream at me, I'm not like XXX - I'm not from Issan, I don't lie. (If you have had one of these genius arguments, I think you know what I mean.) Is it perhaps because the darker skin is associated with the poorer, "lower" class folks. Anyway, is what we think is racism based upon skin colour really just a function of the social and ethnic divide that flavours the LOS? I'm thinking of the social pecking order in South America where Colombians believe that they are superior to people from Peru and Bolivia or Argentinians consider themselves superior to Brazilians etc.

[Huey]

The skin "whitening" stuff really bugs me. I have had several friends that will lather themselves in all of it and put on the goop before they go out. I even had one friend who's girlfriend would powder him. Is it really racism that causes them to do that or is it the social divide? Issan people can be a bit darker. One of my buddies was so pleased when he worked in Bangkok and morphed into one of those ghostly pallor skin tones. He said people didn't automatically assume he was from Issan and assume he was the office mailboy. Whenever I get into an argument with another of my friends he is prone to scream at me, I'm not like XXX - I'm not from Issan, I don't lie. (If you have had one of these genius arguments, I think you know what I mean.) Is it perhaps because the darker skin is associated with the poorer, "lower" class folks. Anyway, is what we think is racism based upon skin colour really just a function of the social and ethnic divide that flavours the LOS? I'm thinking of the social pecking order in South America where Colombians believe that they are superior to people from Peru and Bolivia or Argentinians consider themselves superior to Brazilians etc.

To call somone Issan in my wife's family is almost a curse word. But it has nothing to do with skin color as it dose social standing. It seems to carry the same connotation as calling someone from the States a ignorant back woods hick. My father in law is everybit as dark as I am, and I'm black, and even he makes jokes about Issan people being backwards & illiterate.

[NoBS]

Thailand is easily one of the most racist countries in the world. Racist against their own people, racist against foreign people, racist against anyone that doesn't sit highly within the rich social tapestry that fabricates their society. It will not change for hundreds of years. Those westerners, of whatever colour, that feel that they are 'fitting in' are simply deluding themselves. Racism is rife in Thailand.

After six pages of posts this is it in a nutshell

Agreed, NoBS about it. Right on target. That does not mean we are all non racists. As Jingting and others pointed out, racism is universal. But there are degrees of racism, and Thailand has to be near the top.

[F1fanatic]

Thailand is easily one of the most racist countries in the world. Racist against their own people, racist against foreign people, racist against anyone that doesn't sit highly within the rich social tapestry that fabricates their society. It will not change for hundreds of years. Those westerners, of whatever colour, that feel that they are 'fitting in' are simply deluding themselves. Racism is rife in Thailand.

After six pages of posts this is it in a nutshell

No, this is just typical of anyone unable to adjust to Thailand blaming the Thais rather than themselves. Blaming an entire people because you can't fit in. Sounds like a form of racism to me. My "delusion" is a very happy one. I hope I never wake up from it.

To assume that anyone with a different view from themselves has been "unable to adjust to Thailand" because they "can't fit in" is a bit delusional in itself.

I suspect the VAST majority of Westerners who have lived here for a few years believe the Thais to be v racist. Of course there's an awful lot of racism in our own home countries, but (in my experience) its not quite as obvious. Its not often at home that you hear all the whites talking about 'the black person' near them (within their hearing) - whereas here one cannot go anywhere without hearing 'farang' all the time.

There's an argument about whether or not 'farang' is derisory amongst the Thais, but its certainly not complimentary!

This doesn't excuse racism at home - a tremendous number of people (whilst not saying anything within the foreigners hearing) will be v racist otherwise. I found it v shocking at times that a (relative) stranger would suddenly start a rant about blacks! But, they were (nearly) always uneducated and ignorant.

I agree that it will probably take a long time for attitudes about foreigners to change here, but meanwhile find it funny that they desperately try to copy our looks.