Army Shows Force Against Khattiya

[animatic]

Many German solders died in various attempts to assassinate Hitler. I suggest revamping your history readings or go watch the not so good movie Valerie.

Or last weeks History Channel offerings....

Well over forty attempts,

by thinking people aghast at what he was doing.

But that doesn't mean that discipline is not of great importance in any army.

Edited January 28, 2010 by animatic

[sabaijai]

This country has really gone downhill over the last 3 or so years after the mmilitary s intervention into politics.

The generals have had a taste of power once again and they are hungry for more and more of it.

They've had that taste in their mouths since 1932.

[ballpoint]

"Of course, we can be democratic in the military, but the civilian population should remember that this democracy only extends as far as the barrack gates. After that all bets are off " said Major Apirat Kongsompong, head of the 11th Infantry Regiment.

Sounds about right.

Depends which side of the gates he's talking about.

"The Army's reputation has been damaged by the very bad example of certain soldiers who disrespect the cherished tradition and may threaten unity of the institution," said Maj-General Varis Rojpakdi, head of the Second Infantry Division.

Not even worthy of comment.

Never the less you still commented.

[mca]

You got me there. (Do we have a "yawn" emoticon)?

[prine]

Rogue General Spared Bankruptcy Case

The bankruptcy court has dismissed a suit filed by a former police chief asking it to declare a rogue Army general bankrupt.

The case went to the Central Bankruptcy Court when former national police chief Police General Sant Sarutanont filed suit naming Army Specialist Major-General Kattiya Sawasdipol as defendant for failing to pay compensation of 20 million baht to him for libel as ordered by the Civil Court in August 2006.

The bankruptcy court ruled that the libel case against Major-General Kattiya has not been finalized as the appeal process is still going on.

The court concluded that the verdict could possibly be overturned by the Appeals Court or the court could determine a different amount of compensation.

It also said Major-General Kattiya is a senior military officer and has not shown any intention to avoid paying the compensation.

Major-General Kattiya in 2003 accused Police General Sant of being involved in irregular procurement of police equipment and intentionally mishandling a case in which armed men forcefully dismantled several beer bars in the heart of Bangkok.

-- Tan Network 2010-01-28

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[geriatrickid]

Agreed, but does the same hold true for those that are adherents of the "yellow" side? How about this: There should be no political activity whilst in uniform, or as a representative of the military. Won't happen, will it?

Very predictable as well, innit? This topic is about mad man Khattiya and not about the Yellows!

The point is that a precedent was set long ago with the military's involvement in politics. It's all very good to go after this fellow, but the policy has to be one of consistency. There should be no involvement of any military official in politics, period. The reason this fellow has gotten away with what he has for so long is because other military officers have done the same. This officer is just one of many that has meddled. There are many others on both sides of the political spectrum that have to be stopped. If one officer is singled out by a group from the opposing political side, then it remains a political issue.

If only those who had been in a military were allowed to discuss military matters the world would be a lot worse place. And quite frankly why would someone want to value the opinion of someone who claimed to have been or even was a staff officer in some military or other over any other person? We are not discussing military manouvers, strategy or tactics here but politics.

Edited to add: not that the offcier corps of any modern western army seems to have much understanding of strategy judging by the disastrous state of recent campaigns

You may wish to reconsider what you have written. If you want to enforce military discipline it has to be done within the military and the government to which it reports. As the Thai military does not believe the civilian government has final authority, this puts the Thai civilain government in a difficult position. If the government believes that a military officer has broken a non military law, the government is free to bring charges in a civilian court. However, in Thailand, the military will not accept that.

If this indeed a political issue, then the first step is for the government to to ban all politics in the military. Again the military would not accept that since the military is actively engaged in politicing. What we have here is one active military officer engaging in unacceptable political acts. He has been untouchable to date because going after him would have set an unacceptable precedent for the military. Now that he poses a threat, the military is trying to shut him up internally. If the military was serious, it would say, political activity is not allowed, but again, we won't see that. This is my point. The Thaksin haters have fixated on this man because it suits their agenda. However, the big picture should be taken into consideration: This man and many others must be stopped as part of a consistent apolitical policy.

In respect to your other comment, if you are refering to western activities in Afghanistan, please keep in mind that the military takes its orders from civilian governments. If you are referring to the Thai military operations on the Cambodian border and in the deep south, I suggest that the reason these operations is a mess are precisely because there is no oversight and that the Thai military has allied itself to a political agenda that is not in the long term interests of the nation, but serves the "business" operations of the Thai military. And yes, the military in Thailand is one big business.

The reason I have no respect for many of the anti Thaksin group in TV is that they have one set of rules for the groups they support and one for everyone else. If the behaviour is "anti Thaksin" then it's ok. If you folks want to be taken seriously, then be consistent. This thread is the ultimate example of the moral paucity of your group. You won't come out and say politics should be banned in the military, as that would mean that many of the military officers that appeared at PAD rallies or that have tacitly engaged in "anti Thaksin" activity would have to be condemned, and that's not allowed in your delusionary world.

This major general should be silenced, but so too should many other officers, none of which have or will be reprimanded. That's the point.

[prine]

What we have here is one active military officer engaging in unacceptable political acts.

It goes beyond his unacceptable political acts and into the territory of unacceptable military acts. Irregardless of any of his dubious political activity, his open and very vocal insubordination of senior Army officers alone would have, as previously stated, put him in an Army stockade of most of this world's Armies long ago.

[way2muchcoffee]

You make some very interesting points GK. I'll go ahead then. THE MILITARY SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED IN POLITICS. That wasn't so hard. Now to the reality. Previously I have mentioned the pillars of democracy, including the separation of powers, free and fair elections, educated and informed public etc. etc. etc. In addition to the Judicial, Executive, and Legislative powers Thailand includes a fourth power - the military. The reality is that the the military in Thailand is powerful. They were powerful under Thaksin and they are powerful under the Democrats. This will not change for a very long time.

I make no excuses for the military and their meddling because I believe it is antithetical to democracy. But I do understand the reality of the situation. Some posters will go so far as to state that this is a military dictatorship. I do not believe this to be true. But I would never underestimate the power of the military. They have the guns. They have the men. If they really wanted they might be able control government. Who would stop them? Who could stop them? So given the realities on the ground, for the time being, the military must be pacified and appeased, by whatever political party controls the government.

Edited January 28, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[xminator]

So, the army shows it can command 1000 officers and soldiers to a parade. Are they as sure they can order the same 1000 officers and soldiers to shoot at their own citizens? Or will some of them turn the rifles?

[way2muchcoffee]

So, the army shows it can command 1000 officers and soldiers to a parade. Are they as sure they can order the same 1000 officers and soldiers to shoot at their own citizens? Or will some of them turn the rifles?

Of course they are not as sure. On the other hand, they can be sure that some of the grunts won't hesitate. Triggers will be pulled if that is the order given.

Edited January 28, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[grandpops]

So, the army shows it can command 1000 officers and soldiers to a parade. Are they as sure they can order the same 1000 officers and soldiers to shoot at their own citizens? Or will some of them turn the rifles?

Of course they are not as sure. On the other hand, they can be sure that some of the grunts won't hesitate. Triggers will be pulled if that is the order given.

This is the third front. Not going well on the Cambodian border nor in the South. They should stand a chance in the new "War against one man".... or should they!

[WarpSpeed]

"Of course, we can be democratic in the military, but you should not insult your superiors like that,"

As I see it this is exactly a major part of the problem here.. The military is NOT a democracy nor is it intended to be democratic leaning or involved in politics. It's purpose is nothing other then protecting the government and the democratic system installed but only as a secondary tier with the local police and judiciary being primary adjudicators.

[manarak]

The commander in chief of the Thai armed forces is not Anupong or the Minister of Defense, it is H.M. The King.

So... political insubordination is certainly a very serious thing.

[geriatrickid]

Would you be shocked if I said I agreed with your points, except for So given the realities on the ground, for the time being, the military must be pacified and appeased, by whatever political party controls the government.

The same was said about a few other military juntas. If people do not say no, then the military continues along its merry way. Hopefully, one does not have to resort to popular uprisings to achieve the change, as has happened elsewhere.

[animatic]

A military Junta IS a government, if it is not then it is just the army leadership.

There hasn't been a junta in Thailand since Samak was elected.

When a party or parties control the government, but the army holds some sway

that is a faction or a clique, but it is not by definition a junta.

junta –noun

1. a small group ruling a country, esp. immediately after a coup d'état

and before a legally constituted government has been instituted.

2. a council.

3. a deliberative or administrative council, esp. in Spain and Latin America.

Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2010.

Edited January 29, 2010 by animatic

[way2muchcoffee]

Would you be shocked if I said I agreed with your points, except for So given the realities on the ground, for the time being, the military must be pacified and appeased, by whatever political party controls the government.

The same was said about a few other military juntas. If people do not say no, then the military continues along its merry way. Hopefully, one does not have to resort to popular uprisings to achieve the change, as has happened elsewhere.

Not shocked at all. At this time I don't think the people are in a position to make that stand. It is important that some of the people continue to agitate about the military influence in politics and keep it in the public debate, but I don't believe Thailand is prepared to truly put the military in its place.

[animatic]

Is it coincidence that when this guy says people will get hurt,

people DO GET HURT....?

[Samuian]

Is it coincidence that when this guy says people will get hurt,

people DO GET HURT....?

Nope, regarding to some opinions here it's all the Junta to blame for!

This guy and his entire entourage are freedom fighters, who are giving

their blood and their lives for "genuine democrazy one can eat"!

And they mean it, I mean, they are really going for it!

Ensuring that opposing parties can voice their opinion, can move freely around and

give free speeches, therewith ensuring the freedom of

speech, threatening no one who is trying to uphold law and order, or

just voicing his/her concerns, nope!

One can see the daily repetitions of how the army suppresses the

people, the government, controls this country and makes the rules!

Tanks are everywhere, armed soldiers patrolling the streets, curfews, name it...

People get arrested for buying The Nation, watching ASTV....

[CLOD]

Thats just about the way the Human Rights watch put it.

Human Rights Abusers

[Ricardo]

You got me there. (Do we have a "yawn" emoticon)?

or might be appropriate ?

Which reminds me ... it's coffee-time !

[animatic]

Thats just about the way the Human Rights watch put it.

Human Rights Abusers

I KNEW in advance that Samuians sarcasm and irony in that post would be lost on several here.

....This guy and his entire entourage are freedom fighters, who are giving

their blood and their lives for "genuine democrazy one can eat"!....

He was not saying that is so, he was saying it to show it's absurdity...

But as expected you just didn't grasp the subtlety...

made a trifle harder to get because English is not his native tongue.

He was clearly taking the piss as the Brits might say...

with an oblique reference to let them eat cake too.

Rather drole.

Time for more coffee campers!

Edited January 30, 2010 by animatic

[webfact]

Tight security at homes of key figures following death warnings

BANGKOK: -- Jan 30 (TNA) -- Security has been tightened at the homes of a number of top Thai officials -- judges, National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) members and former members of the now disbanded Assets Examination Committee (AEC) -- following remarks by Maj-Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol that assassination plot was planned against some of them, said Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said Saturday.

There should be no worry about the remarks made by Gen Khattiya, Mr Suthep said, but as a precaution, security officials have been posted at residences of prominent judges, and members of the NACC and the AEC.

Controversial Gen Khattiya, also known as 'Seh Deang', on Wednesday warned of an assassination plot was planned against court judges, members of NACC and the now dissolved AEC, all of which are related to the decision later this month on former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's assets.

Gen Khattiya said his warnings were usually correct.

The judging panel who are scheduled to hand down a verdict on February 26 on whether the Bt76 billion in frozen assets were accumulated illegally while Thaksin Shinawatra was prime minister and, thus, should be seized.

Mr Thaksin was ousted in a bloodless coup in September 2006.

Mr Suthep said there are "high chances in future" for Gen Khattiya to go to jail.

His remarks were made after police have charged him with possessing military weapons without authorization after authorities searched his home and the living quarters of his aide on January 21 and seized a cache of weapons and ammunition.

The raids followed an M79 grenade attack on army headquarters on January 15. Officials suspected Gen Khattiya, a Red Shirt supporter, of involvement in the grenade attack on army headquarters, but he has denied it. (TNA)

-- TNA 2010-01-30

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[animatic]

Gen Khattiya said his warnings were usually correct.

Gee.. how could he know so well that his warnings will come true.

A true psychic in his own mind.

Mr Suthep said there are "high chances in future" for Gen Khattiya to go to jail.

Another 'Gee Wiz Uncle Bumps, why would this be so?', moment.

Like a 30's radio play! Only the Shadow knows what lurks in the minds of men! ooweeeeooo

Well gotta say this guy is now totally motivated to make Thaksin the new Thailand leader,

because he is toast if that doesn't come to past. A very fine job of burning his bridges

to help his puyai attain his goals

Edited January 30, 2010 by animatic

[ballpoint]

Gee.. how could he know so well that his warnings will come true.

A true psychic in his own mind.

And a psycho in every one elses.

[webfact]

topic continues here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Death-Threat...es-t334733.html

//CLOSED//