Sin Sod (sorry)

[louialive]

I just wanted to ask what the culture was if you marry a Thai girl at Amphur and no sin sod paid and then later on say 6 months a year or whatever later you have the buddhist religous ceremony.

Is the culture for sin sod only when you marry via buddhist ceremony or at Amphur or either.

I am getting married soon and no sin sod has been discussed, her family will not be in attendance as it will be amphur in bkk and bit far for them to travel, though they know she is getting married and she has also spent 5 1/2 moths in the UK with me on toursit visa. She has not been married before and is 31.

I am not going to bring it up if not asked about it.

Thanks

[Totster]

C'mon mate, look at the pinned topics

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sin-Sod-Expl...ion-t85581.html

totster

[louialive]

C'mon mate, look at the pinned topics

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sin-Sod-Expl...ion-t85581.html

totster

I did do a forum search and typed sin sod and it came back with nothing found so blame thaivisa

Thanks for the link

[way2muchcoffee]

If you are going to the trouble of having a ceremony wouldn't the point be for her parents and family, as well as yours, to attend? Why are you not having the ceremony near her home? To answer your question, yes, sin sod would be appropriate in this situation, but the parents should be in attendance.

Edited January 29, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[smokie36]

is in the air here tonight!

[britmaveric]

No Sin Sod is a relic of the past and never should be paid or even shown. Just family bragging to the rest of the village that their daughter caught the golden goose.

[louialive]

If you are going to the trouble of having a ceremony wouldn't the point be for her parents and family, as well as yours, to attend? Why are you not having the ceremony near her home? To answer your question, yes, sin sod would be appropriate in this situation, but the parents should be in attendance.

If you read what I said we are getting married in Amphur (I dont call this a ceremony) then ceremony at a later date i.e 6 months, 1 year whatever in an appropriate location

[way2muchcoffee]

Apologies. I misread.

I went through a similar situation. My wife and I married legally at the Ampher. On our 1-year anniversary we had the traditional village wedding. During the year we saved up, purchased the clothes, and planned. The sin sod was given at the village ceremony. Most of it was returned less what I gave as a gift.

Edited January 29, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[dmax]

the way i believe it is that it is only an informal ceramony at the ampur, the real wedding will take place in her villiage with all to see , all to see how much you put in the bowl that is sin sod will inevitably be discussed i would bet my life on it , up to you how much you pay, i think 100,000 is the going rate.

[dmax]

none of my 100,000 was ever returned , ah well we learn by our mistakes.

[eljeque]

I am with Brit above.

If she wants to marry a foreigner, she should be ready to understand foreign ways, and explain them to her parents.

In the US, the wife's family would be paying for the ceremony and it would be in the $10,000 - $20,000 range. Her parents are getting off easy.

I like what one man once wrote here "Do I get a gaurantee?" to go with the payment.

I am not normally confrontational or abrassive, but sin sod is one place whch I draw the line. My girlfriends have always gotten plenty, and I gave nothing when I got married, and there was no complaints. It was her first marriage and she was 23.

Back to sin sod.

Normally, Thai women will be married befor the age of 31, unless they are from an upper middle-class family and have been in medical school and then practice, or some other long-term education and emloyment that did not allow her to spend time finding a husband.

I am sure that your to-be-wife is simply wonderful, but I am sure the family is very happy that at 31, she has found someone.

In the PI, the term Old Maid comes up with women over 30, if not before.

As the marriage moves forward, then you can do somethig for her and her family.

There is no need to have a REAL marriage upcountry. I got married in Las Vegas, andmy wife's family received some pictures. No problems.

Best of luck to you. Feel no guilt about doing anything the way that makes you feel happy, regardless of their requests.

[givenall]

No Sin Sod for farang marreing a Thai gal.

[thunder30101]

People that pay sin sod should have their head examined. And people wonder why so many thais looks at us as stupid farangs lol.

[hawthorne]

I am sure if anyone was expecting you to pay a sum in order to get married you would have heard about it by now.

I have a question though. I heard that at the festival or whatever it is called that when the groom goes to be married people hold you until you give them money so you can enter? Like handing out cash.

ALso the other item is all the attendees give envelopes of money as a gift to the bride and groom which can add up to large enough sums to pay for the wedding?

I missed all that good stuff. My wife said she did not want to put me through it whatever that means.

[eurasianthai]

No Sin Sod is a relic of the past and never should be paid or even shown. Just family bragging to the rest of the village that their daughter caught the golden goose.

This is a tradition, same as giving camels or cows when you marry a girl in Africa or the Middle East.

A tradition born from the fact that men are not very reliable as far as relationships are concerned, they need a girl for sex but usually not for a relationship.

And well, when the girl gets pregnant, the sex is not there anymore, not as they want it to be anyway, and they go elsewhere.

Typical in Thailand and quite a few other countries.

So, if you want to make sure he does not leave that easily, make him pay first...

[louialive]

Thank you for the comments everyone.

It is funny the range of thoughts on this issue. Guess it will always be a tender subject, anything that involves money always is.

[a2396]

People that pay sin sod should have their head examined. And people wonder why so many thais looks at us as stupid farangs lol.

My feelings exactly. Add to that the lame brains that give 20,000 bht ++ per month to their little darlings. In many cases, the men don't even live in Thailand, but only come here on holiday a few times per year. I suppose they think paying a subscription fee will keep the girl "on ice" and chaste while they are gone. These more than willing farangs have created an atmosphere of expectation among many women, that this is the standard to which they are entitled, if they are involved in a relationship with a Farang. Just be fair though, I have heard of Thai men being hoodwinked and scammed in similar manner by the lovelies, but not nearly as often.

[mca]

No Sin Sod is a relic of the past and never should be paid or even shown. Just family bragging to the rest of the village that their daughter caught the golden goose.

Brit I've never been to a westerner marrying Thai wedding but of the myriad of Thai on Thai ones I've attended from both ends of the social spectrum I can't recall sin sod ever not being paid.

[7by7]

C'mon mate, look at the pinned topics

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sin-Sod-Expl...ion-t85581.html

totster

I did do a forum search and typed sin sod and it came back with nothing found so blame thaivisa

Thanks for the link

You don't need to do a search for pinned topics, they are listed at the top of each forum main page under Important Topics.

[7by7]

No Sin Sod is a relic of the past and never should be paid or even shown. Just family bragging to the rest of the village that their daughter caught the golden goose.

Brit I've never been to a westerner marrying Thai wedding but of the myriad of Thai on Thai ones I've attended from both ends of the social spectrum I can't recall sin sod ever not being paid.

My Thai step-son is marrying his Thai fiance in August and he will be paying sin sod. The amount agreed with her parents is actually half that paid by her brother when he married a couple of years ago, so is not affected by his mother being married to a farang.

[Norrad]

My wedding was quite similar. We married at the district office in January and had a real wedding in April. I made it clear that I would not be paying Sin Sod and my wife agreed with that. I had to pay for the whole wedding plus transport and accommodation for all the relatives from Isaan, came to around 250000 Baht. At the wedding my wife handed me a bag with 300000 Baht in it and told me present it to her parents. Turned out that she borrowed cash from all over because she didn't want her family to lose face. At least it was a big cut from the original 2 million I was asked for.

[tigerfish]

I am sure if anyone was expecting you to pay a sum in order to get married you would have heard about it by now.

I have a question though. I heard that at the festival or whatever it is called that when the groom goes to be married people hold you until you give them money so you can enter? Like handing out cash.

ALso the other item is all the attendees give envelopes of money as a gift to the bride and groom which can add up to large enough sums to pay for the wedding?

I missed all that good stuff. My wife said she did not want to put me through it whatever that means.

yes its a bit like paying a bouncer on the door of a nightclub, to let you in if your name not on the list. the custom as i believe to be, or at least this what happened when i married my wife. is that to close friends stood either side of the door and would not let me pass into the room where my bride to be was waiting ,until i gave them an envelope each with money inside. had a good laugh, because i forgot to put the money inside.(pre wedding nerves) payed them later though after the ceremony.

the bit about the guests paying money in envelopes to the bride and groom. that also happened at our wedding. pleasantly surprised at how much we got, and we got presents. toaster, microwave, bed linen, t.v., d.v.d player, cuddly toy. didnt we do well! (nice too see yah, to see you nice)

id have a word with your mrs if i where you. are you sure she didnt pocket it for herself?

[sanook2me]

No Sin Sod is a relic of the past and never should be paid or even shown. Just family bragging to the rest of the village that their daughter caught the golden goose.

I agree that some farang marrying a poor farmers daughter and paying a large sin sod is ludicrous and setting himself up for the financial begging that will surely follow...

However, there is a girl of 38 who works in my mrs office and she has not and does not have a bf but she has a million baht on her head set from her dad..cus the women joke about it thats how i know...she doesn't fraternize with farangs so this is a Thai on Thai thing....

I do agree with you that the sin sod has been abused and blown out of proportion by poor families and silly farangs.

[Bagwan]

Most of what I would say has already been said. The Thai first lady who had chances of sharing my new life told me that her parents wanted 2 mil. She soon found that she had run into a brick wall. Her parents demands over time worked their way down to 25K at which point I ventured that her parents were scam artistes and were obviously out for what they could get if they would settle for 1.25% of the original asking price. If 25K was acceptable <deleted> was 2 mil about? Furthermore they had collected from a previous marriage to a Thai guy who turned out to be a boozy butterfly. How many bites of the cherry would they want? Did not her parents realise that they were lowering their daughters status to that of a chattel in an Arab street market? Did they see her as not much more than a job lot in an auction? The upshot of the one sided discussion was that they said that they couldn't stop their daughter, aged 31 incidentally, marrying me but I would not be welcome in their home. That sentiment was returned by yours truly. The affair ended when the lady found out that deeds of the house she selected for us would not be in her name. I was totally devastated for about 20 minutes by which time I was halfway down a glass of cold amber nectar and reality had kicked in.

Arguments based on the premise 'when in Rome' have little currency with me. I am not Thai and there is no way that I am going to try to be one. To balance that I appreciate that I have to take the Thai viewpoint into consideration and adjust my thoughts and actions accordingly. If I am expected to conform then it would be alright for me to spend every night down the pub with my mates, run a mia noi or two, wake her up when I got home and demand 'my rights', and knock her about a bit if if she was not in the mood, would it? Although I am not comfortable with the premise that within a marriage the person that pays the piper calls the tune, there can be no doubt,at least in my mind, that Thais respect power and a woman expects her husband to be a paterfamilias, a protector and leader. I accept that a clever woman could well pull a man's strings so that his dominance may well be an illusion and just in his mind, but any farang that danced to the tune of his Thai family loses much of my respect. My guess is that he will lose much, if not all, of his dosh too. Old fashioned? Maybe - but old fashion worked.

And what of farang custom? I don't expect a Thai to take up Morris Dancing, wear leather shorts with braces (suspenders), blow down horns 3 metres long, wish everybody to 'have a nice day', keep whippets, blow air into the guts of a sheep and call what comes out the other end music etc etc. (Am I allowed to say shag sheep here?) Why expect me to follow a local custom that is logically indefensible? Does shelling out so that I am afforded the honour of the providing the following make any sense?

* settle the little woman inside bricks and mortar and underneath a tiled roof stocked with every conceivable domestic appliance including her very own TV,

* dress her in quality apparel not bought in a street market (don't forget the myriad number of shoes),

* ensure that the larder is always well stocked with a variety of foods,

* ensure that the best medical attention Thailand has to offer can be made available if necessary,

* that any children will be well educated - and a sensible and disciplined lifestyle ingrained in them

* holidays and trips at regular intervals, some of them abroad

* her own private transport - and coaching that she uses it in a sensible and safe way

* personal services to ensure that her emotional, sexual and mental needs are met

I bring all that to the feast and her family collects? That doesn't seem much of a bargain to me. Hiring a maid to attend to the domestic chores and hiring an athletic bed companion when the mood, amongst other things, arises, seems a much cheaper and sensible option.

After a year together my lady and I married at the Amphur and she now has a UK Social Security number and will have access benefits at a later date. She has never aggressively asked for anything and drilled her family to do likewise. On our visits to them we assess their needs and satisfy them; any wants that they may have are ignored - permanently. The corollary of this is that we have provided much, much more than any sinsot would have produced and what they have acquired is of utility and helps them to help themselves. I hope that it fosters their self respect in that, although they benefit from our benevolence, they are not sponging. On our part we feel some benefit not dissimilar to making merit. We are relaxed in knowing that we are giving rather than them plundering, or at least attempting to. Thus we are following a Thai custom but in a much more acceptable way and from a Thai point of view they may have learned that there is more than one way to skin a rabbit.

[poldebol]

I paid sin sod and got the money back the day after.