Us Immigrant Visa For Thai Wife

[paulfr]

I want to start the process for a US Immigrant Visa for my Thai wife.

We did meet in a bar 2 years ago. She worked in companies for many years and entered the bar scene 4 months before we met. We married 5 months ago after living together here in Bkk for 9 months. Almost had a child but it miscarried at 90 days.

I have been told that telling the truth about the bar will result in automatic rejection. I have also heard that lying can result in permenant rejection.

Anyone have any solid experience or opinions on this dilema ?

I don't want to lie, but sometimes the truth does not fly I know.

Thanks in advance.

[pedro01]

I want to start the process for a US Immigrant Visa for my Thai wife.

We did meet in a bar 2 years ago. She worked in companies for many years and entered the bar scene 4 months before we met. We married 5 months ago after living together here in Bkk for 9 months. Almost had a child but it miscarried at 90 days.

I have been told that telling the truth about the bar will result in automatic rejection.  I have also heard that lying can result in permenant rejection.

Anyone have any solid experience or opinions on this dilema ?

I don't want to lie, but sometimes the truth does not fly I know.

Thanks in advance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For sure - US Immigration will not look kindly if you tell them she was a prostitute.

Just make something up - how can they prove you wrong ?

[johnh101]

I am sure she'll have a friend who will get a letter typed saying she worked as a waitress / receptionist / etc. Just make sure its nothing for which they will ask to see her qualifications.

I know you don't want to lie, but a little one won't hurt.

[easyb]

I asked this same question awhile back and didn't get much response. Didn't find anyone who knew anyone who answered "yes" with results one way or another. My inclination was to advise my GF to say "no" but in the end she wanted to tell the truth as there were some circumstances that she'd have to talk around and she just felt they would know she was lying. My sense of her is that if the questioning got tough she'd not hold up and then you've lied on an application and that can be a permanent rejection. To balance the "yes" she really did the work on proof of other prior jobs, school, etc. as well as good evidence of a very respectable job the past year or so with verifiable employer reference. What I could never figure out is to what extent they have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy and even though they know the odds of how the two met they don't push it. Or if opposite - they try to catch people on the lie?

In my overall research on this I found that working as a prostitute in the past is not a required rejection, the officer can use judgment either way. There is an appeals process but I don't have a clue on the success rate. It was a big role of the dice for us but honesty just seemed the right way given the circumstances. Interview is in about a month so then we know how this played out. (or course rejection could still be on concern of return and not this past work, not sure to what extent she will know why the rejection if that's the case)

Good luck,

[daveh]

I asked this same question awhile back and didn't get much response.  Didn't find anyone who knew anyone who answered "yes" with results one way or another.  My inclination was to advise my GF to say "no" but in the end she wanted to tell the truth as there were some circumstances that she'd have to talk around and she just felt they would know she was lying. My sense of her is that if the questioning got tough she'd not hold up and then you've lied on an application and that can be a permanent rejection.  To balance the "yes" she really did the work on proof of other prior jobs, school, etc. as well as good evidence of a very respectable job the past year or so with verifiable employer reference. What I could never figure out is to what extent they have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy and even though they know the odds of how the two met they don't push it. Or if opposite - they try to catch people on the lie?

In my overall research on this I found that working as a prostitute in the past is not a required rejection, the officer can use judgment either way.  There is an appeals process but I don't have a clue on the success rate. It was a big role of the dice for us but honesty just seemed the right way given the circumstances.  Interview is in about a month so then we know how this played out. (or course rejection could still be on concern of return and not this past work, not sure to what extent she will know why the rejection if that's the case)

Good luck,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would seem if you already told them she was a BG, and you got an interview, it certainly isn't an automatic rejection.

Assuming it is not an automatic rejection, then I would think that honesty is the best policy. The embassy staff has been through this enough to know who was a bargirl and who wasn't. They like to see details of how you met, they will certainly confirm this during your interview. If they detect the slightest hint of a lie, they will drill even further.

If I were a staff member interviewing someone, I would ask:

"How did you meet?"

"What job did you have when you met?"

"Are you currently working at that job?"

"Do you have proof?" or "Why did you quit?"

If she could not provide proof, I would suspect she was lying. If she said she quit, I would suspect her intentions. Afterall, why would someone quit a perfectly good job just because she found a boyfriend? That would raise the "not normal" flag to me. If there was a big age difference between the two, I would assume was a BG and was lying.

But if she said, "In a bar, I was a bargirl (then give some explanation of why she choose that job)" I would respect that answer and I wouldn't have to ask why she quit. Then I would concentrate on determining if the relationship is real, or if she was simply trying to get out of a life of poverty.

It is not an easy job, certainly something I would not want to do.

[SingularMess]

I think that working as a prostitute is considered a "crime of moral turpitude" in US State Department-speak. And it definitely disqualifies you from receiving a visa. I'd skip over that part of her resume if I were you.

[easyb]

I think that working as a prostitute is considered a "crime of moral turpitude" in US State Department-speak.  And it definitely disqualifies you from receiving a visa.  I'd skip over that part of her resume if I were you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Clearly an honest “No” is the best.

I did a bunch of Google research on this and my conclusion was that “crimes of moral turpitude” were grounds for inadmissibility but not a defacto rejection and not a rejection required under law.

The balance in my mind was a situation where the officer would be 90% sure the applicant was lying even though it’s not worth their time to prove it. Is the applicant better off just staring down the officer or being honest in the first place? If the person is showing that they are being honest for a difficult question does it help their overall case? I think in the end the officer is much more concerned about their desire to return to Thailand from the US than if they worked as a prostitute at some point in time. That said if they think this person is only coming to the US to work as a prostitute that would clearly be huge negative. But I assume that every day they extend visas to Thai women whom they assume met their BF or fiancé in a bar but issue the visa on the preponderance of otherwise good evidence. But if everything else is in order and the person is presenting their case honestly and sincerely does this honest answer work against them or not – that I can’t say.

Now that I’ve said all that it’s clearly just a bunch of assumptions. Would love to hear someone with real experience (even second hand).

[paulfr]

I wonder if the group at USCIS in Bkk have an unwritten uniform policy on this issue or if it varies widely depending on the individual prejudices of the interviewer assigned to your case. Hmmmmm ....

I would hope decency and common sense prevail and all interviewers only take the admission as one piece of data in the whole picture. After all, they are not supposed to save the world from vice, just screen out applicants who might harm the US upon entry. Being a bar girl in the past does not necessarily determine her future actions or her character.

I also am eager to hear from anyone who has already gone through this dilemma and has advice based on actual experience with the US Embassy decision makers.

Edited May 4, 2005 by paulfr

[Jeff1]

Tell them that she is between jobs at the moment and you are taking care of her .

And by all means do NOT mention that you met her in a bar and she worked there. Say you met at the grand palace or some place like that .

It worked for me . ( not that I would ever lie )

It took 11 months to get my wife to the states . We got married in Thailand four years ago . Her perm . res. card was sent last January .

Good luck

[paulfr]

Tell them that she is between jobs at the moment and you are taking care of her .

And by all means do NOT mention that you met her in a bar and she worked there. Say you met at the grand palace or some place like that .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jeff

Thank you for replying.

I am happy to hear you were successful.

But maybe you do not fully appreciate the dilemma.

Here are the penalties for lying stated on form I-130 ...

14. What Are the Penalties for Marriage Fraud or Submitting False Information?

Title 8, United States Code, Section 1325, states that any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage contract for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than five years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.

Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001, states that whoever willfully and knowingly falsifies a material fact, makes a false statement or makes use of a false document will be fined up to $10,000, imprisoned for up to five years, or both.

Since their job is to get at the truth, I would not underestimate them.

[Jeff1]

If your that worried , why did you ask ?

Edited May 4, 2005 by Jeff1

[Dragonman]

Just say she had to finish work to look after nephew/niece whatever and that you met in KFC, whatever. I don't think that the Embassy will go asking around all the bars in Thailand trying to catch her out. She's not an Islamist extremist. Presumably.

Just make sure she's got the story right, so that in the end even she believes it. Works for me.

[otherstuff1957]

Here's a cut and paste from form 156:

38. IMPORTANT: ALL APPLICANTS MUST READ AND CHECK THE APPROPRIATE BOX FOR EACH ITEM.

A visa may not be issued to persons who are within specific categories defined by law as inadmissible to the United States (except when a waiver is obtained in advance).

Is any of the following applicable to you?

• Have you ever been arrested or convicted for any offense or crime, even though subject of a pardon, amnesty or other  YES  NO similar legal action? Have you ever unlawfully distributed or sold a controlled substance (drug), or

been a prostitute or procurer for prostitutes?

• Have you ever been refused admission to the U.S., or been the subject of a deportation hearing, or sought to obtain or  YES  NO assist others to obtain a visa, entry into the U.S., or any other U.S. immigration benefit by fraud or willful

misrepresentation or other unlawful means? Have you attended a U.S. public elementary school on student (F) status or a public secondary school after November 30, 1996 without reimbursing the school?

• Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any  YES  NO other unlawful purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State? Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide?

• Have you ever violated the terms of a U.S. visa, or been unlawfully present in, or deported from, the United States?  YES  NO

• Have you ever withheld custody of a U.S. citizen child outside the United States from a person granted legal custody by  YES  NO

a U.S. court, voted in the United States in violation of any law or regulation, or renounced U.S. citizenship for the purpose of avoiding taxation?

• Have you ever been afflicted with a communicable disease of public health significance or a dangerous physical or  YES  NO mental disorder, or ever been a drug abuser or addict?

While a YES answer does not automatically signify ineligibility for a visa, but if you answered YES you may be required to personally appear before a consular officer.

I don't know how most people answer this question, and I suspect that quite a few will be reluctant to discuss it, even on an anonymous forum!

[paulfr]

If your that worried , why did you ask ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry you took offense there Jeff.

I was just adding the facts which I think very few are aware of.

5 yrs in prison is a pretty stiff penalty for lying.

Christian Brando got 5 yrs for murdering his brother in law.

Seems pretty draconian to me and cause for thoughtful concern.

[britmaveric]

Cashier or waitress will due. Technically they work there what they do after they leave the bar is completely up to them. I don't think you need to worry...plenty of grey areas to be evasive.

[Jeff1]

If your that worried , why did you ask ?

Sorry you took offense there Jeff.

I was just adding the facts which I think very few are aware of.

5 yrs in prison is a pretty stiff penalty for lying.

Christian Brando got 5 yrs for murdering his brother in law.

Seems pretty draconian to me and cause for thoughtful concern.

No offence taken Paul . I gave you a reply and you came back with a list of laws .

If we knew every law we would not even leave the house .

What you dont know wont hurt you ...maybe . However I feel that you know what you should do in your heart . You went this far for love ...........

Actually I think it's better to kept her there and you move to Thailand . Thats what we are doing .

In the end , as they say " up to you " Good luck

[paulfr]

If your that worried , why did you ask ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What you dont know wont hurt you ...maybe .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With a choice between permenant rejection and 5 years in prison, what you do not know certainly can hurt you. That is why I asked for personal experiences here. Some one may know the policy or lack thereof which could save me a great deal of grief and regret over the choice.

Any other fellows with a former BG wife and experience with the US Immigration processing policies on Immigrant Visas (i.e. not Non Immigrant Visa) ??

Thank you

Edited May 8, 2005 by paulfr