Best Options For Teaching In Bangkok, Without A Degree!

[ozzieovaseas]

I know I have several friends working with a T.L. waiver and they have work permits ... I also have friends that have never applied for a T.L. and they have work permits and no degrees, so ......

I'll be hiring someone in the next week and a degree is not mandatory and a work permit will be provided.

(PS -- I am NOT recruiting from here! Don't bother PMing )

But im assuming you'd sooner choose someone with a degree before someone without, right?

[jdinasia]

I will pick based upon the needs for the position that is available. I WILL require a TEFL but after that it is personality and who I think will do a good job. If absolutely everything else was equal I would pick a degree over no degree, but is everything else EVER really equal?

[walterego]

Just to support what was mentioned by some others here. The MOE has nothing to do with it.

I work for an agency. ( i have a BA) I have received work permits in all schools the agency has placed me (3 in 3 different provinces). Without any mention of my qualifications to teach AT ALL. This has been done by correspondence from the school only (nothing from my agent) The school has never ever asked about any evidence or to sight or copy any paperwork regarding my qualifications. (TEFL/BA)

I have taken the letters from my school of to immigration and recieved a lovely blue work permit.

Not only that; I know of several people who do not have ANY qualifications at all (however to their credit are great teachers.) They have work permits and teaching licences. They (and this may be a big part of it with their teaching licences) are thought of very highly at their schools.

[Scott]

Let's keep a few things in mind. First, there are different interpretations of the regulations in different areas. Second, there are people who have taught for a number of years--I think those teaching prior to 2003 and who had a TL at that time, eventually were granted a 'permanent' license. Those coming later were not given a TL unless they met the standards. Some of those, as I understand it, will be given waivers for longer than the regular 3 times (don't know how long, though).

Newer teachers will get a waiver up to 3 times and then will have to comply with the full conditions of the TCT for a TL.

So the point is, it is getting increasingly difficult if you do not have a degree. Possible, yes. But not as easy as before.

[twschw]

Not to contradict you Scott but this is the first I have heard of the three waiver rule. That does come to 6 years to try and comply.

It is my understanding that the TCT wants to see that a teacher is trying, within the two year waiver period, to comply then it is at the discretion of the TCT as to whether or not a new waiver is issued.

[Scott]

You may be right. It is my understanding that the 3 waivers is the most that will be given. I got this from one of our Administrative Assistants who deals with these issues. To begin with there was a lack of places to take the courses. Now, there are schools offering the classes. I doubt that the 3 waivers is anything other than a guideline or regulation that is subject to change.

It will be interesting to see what happens in practice. Sadly, it potentially could negatively impact a lot of people.

[mizzi39]

We all know and have heard of people with no degrees having jobs here thats for sure.

But the info i got from a text and talk school agent was that you definately need a degree to satisfy the legal requirements of a work permit. The person telling me this was doing himself no favours as he lost a potential sale/customer from his honesty.

Anyway I hope that he was wrong as if it is now possible to get a work permit without a degree then i could rethink my options.

Regardless of case facts, ive noticed that over 90% of teaching jobs advertised on the more well known sites require a degree+tesol as a minimum requirement. It seems the ones that dont advertise this have forgotten to put it in the add and will ask you if you have a degree when you ring them.

There is a lot of truth to this, however over 90% of jobs that are even remotely worthwhile never advertise and are obtained by word of mouth. If you want to find a good job that is willing to be flexible, spend less time on your computer and more time hitting the pavement.

[moto77]

I'd say the best option is to get a degree. It's not that difficult and then you won't be illegal. It's no wonder many Thais have such a bad opinion of foreigners with all of the illegal aliens in Bangkok.

I always wonder how many of these illegal Westerners look down on illegal aliens in their own home countries (like Mexicans in the US or North Africans in Europe), but make an exception for themselves in Thailand...

[PeaceBlondie]

If you have a really good PhD in the best subject, fine. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO TEACH HERE WITHOUT A BACHELOR'S DEGREE.

[moto77]

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO TEACH HERE WITHOUT A BACHELOR'S DEGREE.

PeaceBlondie: Just about every source I can find says a bachelor's degree is required. But whatever, that is not my main point... as long as you have a work visa somehow, some way, fine. But working illegally is not OK, just because it's rarely enforced or "hard" to do. These illegal immigrants are why the authorities have cracked down on all of the legitimate foreigners in Thailand.

[PeaceBlondie]

We know legal teachers who teach legally, at government schools, without a bachelor's degree. It's not common, not recommended, but some schools do it legally. I stopped teaching when three schools who knew that I had a degree, were too lazy or incompetent to get me a WP or visa extension. It's a violation of Teaching Forum guidelines to state that you have to have a bachelor's degree to teach legally here. If you prove otherwise, I'll stop shouting.

[jdinasia]

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO TEACH HERE WITHOUT A BACHELOR'S DEGREE.

PeaceBlondie: Just about every source I can find says a bachelor's degree is required. But whatever, that is not my main point... as long as you have a work visa somehow, some way, fine. But working illegally is not OK, just because it's rarely enforced or "hard" to do. These illegal immigrants are why the authorities have cracked down on all of the legitimate foreigners in Thailand.

Moto--- it is a work permit not a work visa. Nobody has cracked down on legitimate foreigners in Thailand.

[PeaceBlondie]

I've never seen a work permit, in seven years here.

[toptuan]

I've never seen a work permit, in seven years here.

It's the employer's responsibility to provide the paperwork for such, but ultimately the employee's responsibility to get the WP. Wouldn't the proper action be, in this case, to quit the job when an employer refuses to abide by the law (or is too incompetent to do so)? Why put one's self and teaching career in jeopardy as well? At my school, we've had unannounced Labor Dept. raids to make sure everyone had their WP.

After enduring 13 months of tourist visa runs with a school employer who couldn't get the documentation right for a non-immigrant B visa, I quit. Of course, they then promised me the moon. But I'd heard that before.

[Scott]

It's very easy to be judgmental about what others should or shouldn't do. I know a school that did everything to get their employees WP's but couldn't. It was a new school (or change in ownership) and the paperwork for the registration of the school was very, very slow.

I don't know the ins-and-outs of what the problem was, but I would guess someone wanted money to register what went from a poor program to a good program.

The teachers stayed and the moment the papers would done, they got WPs.

[PeaceBlondie]

I've never seen a work permit, in seven years here.

It's the employer's responsibility to provide the paperwork for such, but ultimately the employee's responsibility to get the WP. Wouldn't the proper action be, in this case, to quit the job when an employer refuses to abide by the law (or is too incompetent to do so)? Why put one's self and teaching career in jeopardy as well? At my school, we've had unannounced Labor Dept. raids to make sure everyone had their WP.

After enduring 13 months of tourist visa runs with a school employer who couldn't get the documentation right for a non-immigrant B visa, I quit. Of course, they then promised me the moon. But I'd heard that before.

That was 2003-2005. The Labour Office was clueless, too. I saw it was hopeless, and that administrators were almost all incompetent or lazy. It would have been great to get a good school.