Good (modest) Car For Expat And Family?

[jdinasia]

I actually LOVE my Jazz and it is a fun and decent little car. That being said I will be getting something different for upcountry and the Jazz will stay in BKK.

I would avoid any used cars if it was in your budget to avoid them. They are high priced and prone not to have been taken care of when they were new.

[INTJ]

I think you will get the most pleasure in Thailand from a W124 Mercedes for under 500K baht.

Beautiful cars, great presence on the road (people moving over for you etc) and there are some nice ones around, plenty of specialist Benz websites with good classified sections.

Honda Jazz is a crap womans shopping car and any bloke in one looks like a shirtlifter

Cheers

edit, sorry I just noticed the title was modest car.........then a Benz is probably too much ! I would still avoid cheap Honda products though.

Edited March 11, 2010 by INTJ

[up-country_sinclair]

It seems to me that the Honda Jazz is exactly what the OP is looking for......a modestly priced car with a bit of space that will get him from point A to point B within Bangkok and the suburbs.

I bought mine 4 years ago, and have been very pleased with it. In fact, I wouldn't hesitate recommending one to friend.

[corkman]

edit, sorry I just noticed the title was modest car.........then a Benz is probably too much ! I would still avoid cheap Honda products though.

I suppose it was misleading of me to make "modest" a requirement. What I meant was to avoid a debate going as to whether I should buy a Camry or an Accord......

I must be honest, having had both back home, I'd prefer a beamer though

Any chance you could PM' me a couple of those sites your speaking of. Its not that I'm too lazy to search myself, just I haven't got time between organising everything else, moving in less than 4 weeks, and still working full time!

Thanks

[corkman]

It seems to me that the Honda Jazz is exactly what the OP is looking for......a modestly priced car with a bit of space that will get him from point A to point B within Bangkok and the suburbs.

I bought mine 4 years ago, and have been very pleased with it. In fact, I wouldn't hesitate recommending one to friend.

I'm starting to come around to this conclusion also. Its not what I "want", because I like cars generally, and have no problem spending an unsensible amount of money on a car...... but I've got to temper aspiration with sensiblity as I am moving the entire fmaily and there are going to be a million things to worry about..... in a couple of years I might be better positioned to chase my dreams as far as cars go

[WarpSpeed]

I would have no problem guying a used car, and would probably prefer to, but the over whelming majority of people I have asked have said that its a big mistake to a buy a second hand car in thailand.....

And they're right under your circumstances. I just bought an older VW Vento and I am quite comfortable, confident and competent with doing the work on it and have been spending copious amounts of time going through the entire car repairing 16 years of Thai engineering (they're much better engineers then the Germans you know? ) I spent a ton of time going over numerous cars and makes from top to bottom before settling on this one that had a good basic foundation with a few minor issues that could be dealt with inexpensively and timely without a major investment. Those cars had everything from major valve problems, severe damage covered, a possible Tsunami car (still around need to be aware) had definitely been under water before, rod knocks, dead batteries for whatever reason (always to be cautious of) etc. the list is endless..

I've been fixing poor and incorrect wiring, an incorrectly installed LP conversion (that was scary stuff to find not to mention the major drop in performance not having had an LP conversion before it was tough to know what to expect, it was doing great harm to the fuel injection system too), readjusted body features that were half assed in their installation from previous contacts (you must be realistic and resign to finding a car with the least amount of damage done as it is an extremely rare find to get one that has not been hit in some magnitude) correcting alignment issues, replacing rigged, cracking CV joint boots, new air filters, transaxle fluid changes, interior cleaning, brakes (the rear brakes had springs installed in the wrong places and loose when they should have been tight, drum brakes) etc. and we bought from a fairly decent dealer but being well informed I got nothing that wasn't expected and I bargained accordingly.

INTJ are you trolling?? The Jazz does not have a dreadful build quality relative to it's price, that's your opinion but what real evidence do you have that you can provide? How many have you driven? One? less?? It isn't priced like a Benz, Lexus, Camry, BMW or anything else like it it is priced and built like the class it is in and priced accordingly and it's good value for the money.

I would definitely take a Jazz over anything that has been b'stardized by the local Thai engineers as you have no idea what kind of shall we say.........Creative engineering has been done under the surface, electrically or mechanically and no way to verify what belongs and what doesn't nor a history.. I find that for me a pick up does not have enough interior room without a bed cover to cover and secure your belongings...

Edited March 11, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[INTJ]

INTJ are you trolling?? The Jazz does not have a dreadful build quality relative to it's price, that's your opinion but what real evidence do you have that you can provide?

Well, I currently have a Honda City (the same as the Jazz but with a boot), and I have driven 3 Jazz's over the years.

I suggest you lift the bonnet and drop it, also slam the doors. There is no quality whatsoever. And the horrible interior plastics speak for themselves.

Anyone that thinks the Jazz is good quality and well made has obviously never driven a German car

I would take the Vios (03-07) over the Jazz any day.

But as you say, all this is only my opinion

Cheers

[INTJ]

Any chance you could PM' me a couple of those sites your speaking of

http://www.benzowner.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9

http://www.mercedesmania.com/forum/index.php/board,89.0.html

http://www.bmwsociety.com/classifieds/

Cheers

[WarpSpeed]

I suggest you lift the bonnet and drop it, also slam the doors. There is no quality whatsoever. And the horrible interior plastics speak for themselves.

I have many times I don't see your point? It is no different then any other car manufactured these days over the way they were 20 or even 30 years ago, and if you don't like them why do you own a Honda now? And you claim to have driven 3 of them and opened the hood and dropped it)? Professional evaluation if I ever heard one that is not a measure of build quality it is a measure of the times but what they produce with the materials they use is the topic...

As for German cars I've produced & competed on a professional level in manufacturers from both countries and both have their qualities to speak of.. I have driven Integra's, Porsche, Mercedes, and VW in competition and was impressed with certain aspects of all of them, nothing revs, pulls and has the durability like the smaller bore Honda engines in stock trim over even larger displacement German brands given how hard they work it's very impressive.

The Mercedes I drove had good mid range torque and brakes like a truck, very important in competition especially since they are heavy cars but stopping good is every bit as important as HP as it actually helps you go faster if you can be off the brakes quicker and on the power sooner. I never competed in a BMW but I have against them and the first car I bought when I arrived here was an older BMW 318I coupe and their reputation is all that it's made out to be on the track.

I set numerous track records, wins, poles and fastest laps in my own VW's over the years and right now currently own an older VW Vento and do all of my own work on it as I've done on all my cars for years (if you read any of my other posts you would not have stepped in that one) so I'm well equipped to make the distinction between the brands and none of those you've mentioned are even in the class of a Jazz either so you aren't even comparing apples and apples. The only thing close to the Jazz would be the mini and even it's not the same class and is far more expensive (prohibitively so here) which is another strong point of the Jazz..

Cost, versus utility, longevity and serviceability, it's a compromise and Jazz meets the criteria over the suggestions being made and JFYI a Vios is not close in performance or cargo space but yet cost is about the same, not even factoring in Toyota's recent problems these days, enough reason to be shying away from them for a while.....

Edited March 12, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Bedrockguesthouse]

Honda Jazz they are brilliant. I'm an aussie normally like bigger cars.

Ours is great with the full body kit on it.

Good luck choosing

rgds Mark

[ZXT]

For your needs you can never go wrong with Yaris/Vios or Jazz/City.

[INTJ]

Hi Mr "WarpSpeed", please allow me to address the issues you raised.

"if you don't like them why do you own a Honda now?"

I don't. My Mrs does though

"And you claim to have driven 3 of them"

Yes, I know it's a pretty astonishing "claim" and I can understand you not believing me

"that is not a measure of build quality it is a measure of the times"

Exactly my point. Modern cars are cheaply produced to the lowest possible cost and standard.

"As for German cars I've produced & competed on a professional level in manufacturers from both countries"

"Produced" what ? And which "both countries", you only mention Germany

"nothing revs, pulls and has the durability like the smaller bore Honda engines in stock trim over even larger displacement German brands"

Not even Porsche, BMW M3, CLS600, Audi V8 ? What a ridiculous statement

"I set numerous track records, wins, poles and fastest laps in my own VW's over the years and right now currently own an older VW Vento "

Well done, did you fit spoilers to your old Vento to break all these records ?

"none of those you've mentioned are even in the class of a Jazz either so you aren't even comparing apples and apples"

I'm making comparisons based on purchase cost. That is the whole point I'm making, that it isn't always necessary to compare apples to apples. There are many other "fruits" available for the same price.

"it's a compromise"

Yes, I'll agree with that

Zzzzzz

Best Regards.

[WarpSpeed]

Hi Mr "WarpSpeed", please allow me to address the issues you raised.

"if you don't like them why do you own a Honda now?"

I don't. My Mrs does though

"And you claim to have driven 3 of them"

Yes, I know it's a pretty astonishing "claim" and I can understand you not believing me

"that is not a measure of build quality it is a measure of the times"

Exactly my point. Modern cars are cheaply produced to the lowest possible cost and standard.

"As for German cars I've produced & competed on a professional level in manufacturers from both countries"

"Produced" what ? And which "both countries", you only mention Germany I'll only answer this one the others are just a reflection of your insecurity and lack of knowledge speak for themselves.

You are familiar with the manufacturers of the HONDA Integra aren't you? As my recollection serves they are considered Japanese and the second country of manufacture we are speaking of.... Which BTW I was a factory supported program before coming here..

"nothing revs, pulls and has the durability like the smaller bore Honda engines in stock trim over even larger displacement German brands"

Not even Porsche, BMW M3, CLS600, Audi V8 ? What a ridiculous statement

"I set numerous track records, wins, poles and fastest laps in my own VW's over the years and right now currently own an older VW Vento "

Well done, did you fit spoilers to your old Vento to break all these records ?

"none of those you've mentioned are even in the class of a Jazz either so you aren't even comparing apples and apples"

I'm making comparisons based on purchase cost. That is the whole point I'm making, that it isn't always necessary to compare apples to apples. There are many other "fruits" available for the same price.

"it's a compromise"

Yes, I'll agree with that

Zzzzzz

Best Regards.

Go work on your b'stardized contradiction of terms in that BMW/Toyota your working on as you bestow the virtues of German vehicles and then b'stardize all of their finer qualities with Japanese downgrades you claim to think lowly of.. Why aren't you using a BMW V8? Too high quality for your tastes?

Oh! And if you ever really want to learn to drive your toy properly get in touch and I'll give a real driving lesson at a track day sometime and show you how to keep your hands on the wheel properly while steering and after shifting.. Toyota engine in a BMW!! Blasphemy! I will say though you got a good price, good thing as you should break even with the downgrades or maybe not this I Thailand where there is little common sense used for most things.. As for the OP his question was not which car would be the best for him to spend months and bahts modifying to make it suitable and sporty..

Edited March 12, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[tangcoral]

Speaking from experience, I have a 1.5 year old and a wife in our 2007 yaris.

Great on gas, drives well, easy to park, low maintenance, and roomier than it looks from the outside.

However, 2 things issues that point towards upgrading to something else.

1. Safety - something about the size worries me.

2. Not so roomy when you add a car seat, stroller, diaper bag and your groceries.

yaris/vios/jazz - Its definitely doable but the limited space issue gets a bit annoying

thus why I am in the market for WISH.

With a budget of 500-600K there's not much out there other then a pick-up ,if it's any safer that is.

Unless your looking at 5+ year old car you can't get new with that price range.

Out of curiosity, why all this talk about the Jazz and not Yaris.

Is the Yaris inferior to the Jazz?

Edited March 12, 2010 by tangcoral

[corkman]

Speaking from experience, I have a 1.5 year old and a wife in our 2007 yaris.

Great on gas, drives well, easy to park, low maintenance, and roomier than it looks from the outside.

However, 2 things issues that point towards upgrading to something else.

1. Safety - something about the size worries me.

2. Not so roomy when you add a car seat, stroller, diaper bag and your groceries.

yaris/vios/jazz - Its definitely doable but the limited space issue gets a bit annoying

thus why I am in the market for WISH.

With a budget of 500-600K there's not much out there other then a pick-up ,if it's any safer that is.

Unless your looking at 5+ year old car you can't get new with that price range.

Out of curiosity, why all this talk about the Jazz and not Yaris.

Is the Yaris inferior to the Jazz?

Thanks tangcoral - it is reassuring when someone posts that they have a young family similar to me etc. (other posters too - thnaks).

Off-topic ...... "tang" "coral" ...... bit of a reefer are we?

[WarpSpeed]

Speaking from experience, I have a 1.5 year old and a wife in our 2007 yaris.

Great on gas, drives well, easy to park, low maintenance, and roomier than it looks from the outside.

However, 2 things issues that point towards upgrading to something else.

1. Safety - something about the size worries me.

2. Not so roomy when you add a car seat, stroller, diaper bag and your groceries.

Yes this the problem with the Yaris from my experience the Jazz has much more room amazingly enough as for safety it's the way the world is heading and they do have International crash test safety standards to meet and they do better then you would think but in extreme cases nothing short of a tank will be totally safe people even die quite often in larger vehicles such as SUV's and pickups from roll overs etc.. You're the driver, it's up to you to be defensive in anything you drive..

yaris/vios/jazz - Its definitely doable but the limited space issue gets a bit annoying

thus why I am in the market for WISH.

Yes a wish is a nice package too and one I overlooked.. We saw one for sale second hand several months ago but it was out of our price range it was loaded with 2 DVD players/TV as well..

With a budget of 500-600K there's not much out there other then a pick-up ,if it's any safer that is.

Unless your looking at 5+ year old car you can't get new with that price range.

The Wish we saw second hand was well within that price range...

Out of curiosity, why all this talk about the Jazz and not Yaris.

Is the Yaris inferior to the Jazz? Yes, IMO in terms of price/package, performance and cargo space.

[tangcoral]

Speaking from experience, I have a 1.5 year old and a wife in our 2007 yaris.

Great on gas, drives well, easy to park, low maintenance, and roomier than it looks from the outside.

However, 2 things issues that point towards upgrading to something else.

1. Safety - something about the size worries me.

2. Not so roomy when you add a car seat, stroller, diaper bag and your groceries.

Yes this the problem with the Yaris from my experience the Jazz has much more room amazingly enough as for safety it's the way the world is heading and they do have International crash test safety standards to meet and they do better then you would think but in extreme cases nothing short of a tank will be totally safe people even die quite often in larger vehicles such as SUV's and pickups from roll overs etc.. You're the driver, it's up to you to be defensive in anything you drive..

Out of curiosity, why all this talk about the Jazz and not Yaris.

Is the Yaris inferior to the Jazz? Yes, IMO in terms of price/package, performance and cargo space.

Wish I knew that beforehand but the wifey thought the yaris was more "hip looking" when the newer generation jazz wasnt out yet.

I'm a more of a honda guy just cause I like the way the suspension feels more than the toyotas.

And OP, out of 7 years using this nickname on at least 5 different forums not one has mentioned what my name meant. I'm a bit surprised you nailed it.

Edited March 12, 2010 by tangcoral

[WarpSpeed]

Hi Mr "WarpSpeed", please allow me to address the issues you raised.

"As for German cars I've produced & competed on a professional level in manufacturers from both countries"

"Produced" what ? And which "both countries", you only mention Germany

"nothing revs, pulls and has the durability like the smaller bore Honda engines in stock trim over even larger displacement German brands"

Not even Porsche, BMW M3, CLS600, Audi V8 ? What a ridiculous statement

"I set numerous track records, wins, poles and fastest laps in my own VW's over the years and right now currently own an older VW Vento "

Well done, did you fit spoilers to your old Vento to break all these records ?

Zzzzzz

I've just come back to post this in further response, I'll tell ya what since you're so bored, I'm going to throw down the gauntlet on this one.. When you get your BMW/Toy kit car completed up to your specs and you're comfortable with it let me know and we can have a ThaiVisa track day at Bira with any ThaiVisa members who wish to attend so that way we can split the cost and make a social day of it and I will even throw in professional coaching lessons (usually a required fee) for those of whom are interested..

I'll bring my virtually stock (except for the LP conversion at this point anyway and the imagined "spoilers" you mention) 16 year old, VW Vento so it's about the same age as your Bimmer and I'll challenge you to run faster laps then me if your kit car holds together that is over the course of any 10 laps chosen, consecutive or not. With all the mods you'll have on it you should not only be faster (though I doubt it) you should be significantly faster.. There it is, the ball is in your court do you have any or just talk?

Edited March 12, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Wish I knew that beforehand but the wifey thought the yaris was more "hip looking" when the newer generation jazz wasnt out yet.

I'm a more of a honda guy just cause I like the way the suspension feels more than the toyotas.

And OP, out of 7 years using this nickname on at least 5 different forums not one has mentioned what my name meant. I'm a bit surprised you nailed it.

Wish!..........Ha! I get it! Play on words!!!......Seriously though on second thought the "Wish" kinda takes the sport out of the OP's desires as it is entirely a family cross over..

[INTJ]

WarpSpeed,

Would you be willing to give me some free lessons before we have our race ? Otherwise you might have an unfair advantage with your amazing skills.

It's probably not fair to hijack this thread with any more p*ssing contests, though.

Cheers

[WarpSpeed]

That's why I just made the challenge and then it would be done with and you just keep blathering on but yet you haven't responded to the challenge at hand which would end the "p*ssing contest" as you called it once and for all (which is your perspective and precipitated by your patronizing and condescending tone)....JFYI I'm sure you could win that one anyway, (pissing contest that is).... Or in all seriousness maybe just a go kart track day for less cost and risk would suit you? This thread had already pretty much run it's course... Awaiting your answer....

Edited March 13, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[steelepulse]

>>ThaiVisa track day at Bira

That would be fun. What's the track rental for the day?

[WarpSpeed]

2000b per person daily from 13:00 to 17:00 and yes I think it could be a fun social.. They are not clear on car specs though it should be allowed to have a go with a well prepared street car if a scrutineering is set up for safety and a bit of common sense applied but it is vague as to whether or not street cars are allowed, I think they would be if proper precautions were taken.. I know they have events with clubs of street legal cars all the time..

*edit* That's an open track with potentially other much faster cars out there so it would be very important to be well versed in proper track etiquette and safety hence the uncertainty. To lease the track exclusively where it would likely be more permissible and less dangerous it will cost somewhere around 55 to 70,000 depending on the services required. But having said that it is very rare to have a lot of cars on an open track day so it is possible to work around each other..

Edited March 13, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[INTJ]

Warpspeed, as I said, I'm not interested in any p*ssing contests with you, or gauntlets, or races or whatever. I have nothing to prove to anybody, it's not my style.....however you are obviously a motoring enthusiast like myself, and even though you called my car a b'stard which was way below the belt, I shall refrain from bickering with you in the future

I think a TV Bira track day is a great idea.

Maybe better to take this to the hot hatch thread ?

Cheers

[WarpSpeed]

^ Moved to the Hot hatch thread then...

[stingray]

The Jazz build quality is dreadful. All of the late model Jap cars are soulless and depressing to drive....... if you are a motoring enthusiast to any degree........buy an old European car. We have a Honda crapmobile and a 20 year old Volvo, I will take the Volvo everywhere and anywhere and always enjoy the drive (mine has Toyota 1JZ 2500cc engine and LPG). Lots of old Mercedes around - you could get a really nice W124 300E for half the price of a Jazz - an absolute no brainer IMO. Unless you want a functional, bland, boring, ubiquitous transportation device.

Just lift and drop the bonnet of the Jazz. Feel the lack of quality and substance. That is what you are buying.

Cheers

I would have no problem guying a used car, and would probably prefer to, but the over whelming majority of people I have asked have said that its a big mistake to a buy a second hand car in thailand.....

Only peaple who not do any calculations with their money, without commonseses and no knowledge say that.

Just bought for 100'k for my wife a old 123 Benz wit a 1JZ Toyota engine inside. Yes, i spent about 20'k for suspension, tires, exhoust and some minor bodyrepairs (because it's a used car, not a new one, but that's narmal) and for 120 grand she have now a car, which she can drive for a couple years and can be sold any time for 100'k if she don't want it anymore or maybe even more. Yes, using a little bit more gasoline, i know that already, but what is the difference between 7 to 10 liter for 100 km? Can consider only the 3 liter difference, because the Jazz use also gasoline as well (it doesn't run on air), wich is approx. 90 Baht more per 100km (this would be 9'000 Baht more if she drives 10'000km per year.

That kind of money she saves already on yearly insurance and road tax, because it's a older car. But she or we driving confortable, powerful 6 cylinder car with a smooth ride, safe and strong body (no plastic bumpers and no plastic door handles wich braking allways a parts), such a car is cheap and easy for parts and now the trick: KEEP 500'k in the bank, no headache for monthly payments and NO devaluation in the price for years.

[WarpSpeed]

^ Well for me personally I can't disagree as I said that is exactly what I did with my VW but if someone is not mechanically confident or knows the proper way around the Thai automotive market and that definitely includes the after market parts and service aspect as well as having the time required to devote to searching, testing and evaluating so many frogs to find the prince worthy of taking home then of the choices he listed as his top 4 his best bet is a Jazz yes? Or else he can get himself into a world of hurt with something second or even third hand..

[abcz9]

Basically the two choices are the Honda City/Jazz or the Toyota Vios/Yaris. Everything else will have a negative such as poor resale, poor aftersales support, etc. Sure you won't stand out in either but you won't regret it either when it comes time to sell.

i dont know about that but i brought a new vios g limted 700grand. 3months later try to sell only got 500grand for it .and that was when the pound was 64bt. also drives like a shoping trolly.

[guzzi850m2]

My 2006 City ZX drives perfectly, only thing to complain about is lack of power when overtaking otherwise a very good car (for the money).

Again corkman, go rent some wheels and then make up your mind, best way to check.

[corkman]

Again corkman, go rent some wheels and then make up your mind, best way to check.

This is exactly what we plan to do - we'll probably find a jazz or similar to rent for a reasonable amount, and see if we can live with it, and then purchase something on the basis of that.

Thanks everyone for your advice.