Thai Police Seize Internet Chat Logs

[NativeBob]

he could make and post video on the Net? I thought he couldn't even write well. What a load..

The server they took from CAT is just a machine with 1 trillion logs of whole domestic traffic since jan2010. funny how are they going to analyse it ))))

[gbswales]

Big brother...

Thank you Big Brother get rid of scum like this. Good work!!!

Oh sure giving up freedom of speech to rid the world of the "bad guys" is always OK isnrt it? Other people on here argue that the big brother analogy is a knee jerk reaction..... stop and think seriously about it. There are a few things you should consider first-

How do you define who the "good guys" are. Well in a practical context that is easy - the Legitimate Authorities - but no wait wasn't the the Thaksin government a legitimate authority? - how would you argue his right to have done the same thing and have maybe prevented the "coup"?

Serious criminals employ people to keep their identities hidden - there are 15 year olds in internet cafes who could tell you how easy it is to sit behind an anonymous proxy if you know how - in fact many would be using different interenet cafes for each session to make things even more untracable.

Remember too that in Thailand there are laws and protocols, some of which cannot be discussed in this forum, which many people would like to see changed - with these records in police hands who is to say they they wont take the opportunity to go on a cyber shopping expedition to find out who disagrees with certain things

Individual freedom is also at risk in countries where certain basic human rights are breaches of the law - when a civilised society accepts censorship and snooping as acceptable practice then they give legitimacy to China and other counties where it is used for political control. A good example is the recently proposed anti gay legislation in Uganda, no doubt records of who has accessed gay chat rooms will play its part in aiding he government to persecute these people.

It is one thing to seek records in respect of a particualr individual where there is sufficient evidence to suspect a crime, in the same way that phone taps should never be used randomly, and quite another to sieze bul records and sift through them to find if there is a crime.

In the face of things like child abuse, bombings, international terrorism and even cyber bullying - it is tempting to agree to give up freedoms for the greater good - but always remember that it is far more difficult to gain freedoms than it is to give them up.

[robertson468]

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin.

Have fun in the Police state....

How does quoting a famous quote by Benjamin Franklin manage to fit the political scenario of Thailand? A classical shallow statement which fails to quantify what is "essential liberty" and what is "a little temporary safety". Taking statements out of context does not make then right, apart from which, if Franklin lived in these times of rampant terrorism, I am sure he would have had the intellect not to use that statement in this context.

[SeanMoran]

... always remember that it is far more difficult to gain freedoms than it is to give them up.

Well said!

[BSJ]

if it leads to just one person being saved from death....it has to be done. Lets hope the few freedoms we enjoy don't go away as the police hunt the bad guys.

[alf75]

Big brother...

Yeah curse them, curse Big Brother for trying to catch someone who is making bomb threats/warnings and causing Civil Unrest - how dare they infringe on peoples human rights to do this!

ya you must be one of the red <deleted> try to stir up the country for a idiot in hiding

[Preferential]

How do you define who the "good guys" are.

To begin with, someone that doesn't post videos of bomb threats

[Netfan]

It is is after all no surprise that Thailand has dropped to spots just behind Zimbabwe and Burma on the press freedom lists since the last putsch.

Source?

[unclekleef]

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, everybody SHOULD have the right to free speech, BUT to incite or condone violence is neither, and these people do both and deerve what they get. How many of you who bemoan the police actions, would dare to post the same incentive for violence in the USA or the UK? As for the expats who are constantly posting negative comments about Thai's and The Thai government I say this; Who asked you to come here, if you don't like the way the country is run - go to the home you left because you weren't happy there either.

[StreetCowboy]

How has free speech been inhibited? My understanding is that the servers and logs have been taken as evidence in the investigation of an alleged crime - incitement to make and use bombs. Is CAT still able to continue their business of hosting internet chats? Are we still able to use a similar facility to criticise and question the Thai government? Or express support for one or another political faction? Within the bounds of prevailing standards, of course.

This is not a story about free speech - it is a story about Information Technology and Communications and their role in terrorism, and combatting terrorism.

SC

Ah - that'll be interpol at the door now...better go.

[OZEMADE]

It does seem like rather a longshot to pickup someone's own home IP address when I can take this little laptop in its bag on my shoulder and walk up to Tesco Lotus and sit there on their free wifi doing fairly much anything anonymously.

If someone is foolish enough to start inciting a civil war from their home ADSL, it's probably in their best interests that they get arrested and thrown in jail where they won't have ADSL to harm themselves anymore.

LOL! I totally agree with you on this! But they may find the MAC address of the computer involved...

They may also find the thousands of laptops that have been stolen and are now being used for this very purpose. I hope you reported your laptop stolen to the police. Most laptops from overseas will inform them of who the original owner was, even if you use it at Tasco Lotus free wifi or you are stealing someones ADSL WIFI that they have not locked. My laptop picks up 5 different private addresses near home 3 are locked and 2 unlocked. I dont use them.

[bluesofa]

It is is after all no surprise that Thailand has dropped to spots just behind Zimbabwe and Burma on the press freedom lists since the last putsch.

Is Thailand really behind these two countries now?

I would like to see the list if possible (or is that the reason for the edit "Illegal content removed" was it a link to the list perphaps?)

[Netfan]

I wonder had this been an Al Queda member writing about blowing up people in a western country would the defenders of "free speech" be so vocal? The man advocated the violent overthrow of the government. What government in the world would not have reacted in the same way?

[markokang]

Could they not just ask CAT to supply the information instead of seizing it all!????

Does seem a bit "over"

[johncitizen]

How has free speech been inhibited? My understanding is that the servers and logs have been taken as evidence in the investigation of an alleged crime - incitement to make and use bombs. Is CAT still able to continue their business of hosting internet chats? Are we still able to use a similar facility to criticise and question the Thai government? Or express support for one or another political faction? Within the bounds of prevailing standards, of course.

This is not a story about free speech - it is a story about Information Technology and Communications and their role in terrorism, and combatting terrorism.

SC

Ah - that'll be interpol at the door now...better go.

Are you kidding? The Computer Crimes Act forbids anything determined to be "a threat to national security."

Determined by who? And how many atrocities committed in the name of protecting national security will we tolerate?

[johncitizen]

How has free speech been inhibited? My understanding is that the servers and logs have been taken as evidence in the investigation of an alleged crime - incitement to make and use bombs. Is CAT still able to continue their business of hosting internet chats? Are we still able to use a similar facility to criticise and question the Thai government? Or express support for one or another political faction? Within the bounds of prevailing standards, of course.

This is not a story about free speech - it is a story about Information Technology and Communications and their role in terrorism, and combatting terrorism.

SC

Ah - that'll be interpol at the door now...better go.

Are you kidding? The Computer Crimes Act forbids anything determined to be "a threat to national security."

Determined by who? And how many atrocities committed in the name of protecting national security will we tolerate?

EDIT: Can't wait to see how much you have changed your tune when Puea Thai wins the elections... when Suthep decides we are "ready" for them.

Edited March 4, 2010 by johncitizen

[sedeflonga]

Big brother...

Thank you Big Brother get rid of scum like this. Good work!!!

I concurr!! Lock those terrors up!

[golferchin76]

hey...just talked to my gods and they promised to help me ignore all these nonsenses happening in Thai politics It is not a fight worth involving or watching anymore.

Economic and Cyber-Crime Division (ECOTEC)....

first of all, how nice the name sounds, ECOTEC. I would never imaging <deleted> his/her/their job is about during a name card exchange. IMO the linking of economic... whatever = ECOTEC is so beyond absurd. ECOTEC sounds more like a ford engine technology to me than a crime fighting division. Is it simply poor English or intentional?

secondly, what is the sole purpose of this "Economic and Cyber-Crime" fighting division? Since the name says economic & cyber crime therefore I suppose it should be fighting against monetary related cyber frauds, crimes? Or is it all economic related AND all cyber-crime related topics? If so, it certainly is a very powerful organization covering a very broad area with very ambiguous definitionS.

And hence it is powerful, it's power will be misused, abused, corrupted.

This whole situation is such a cliche plot that no movie producer or book writer would want to use. (coup d'etat, yellow=loyalty to king, airport siege, yellow/red struggle, taskin firing from laos, 5th world Hun Sen threw shits into Thai air, more than half of taskin's assents got owned by gov't decided by court, followed by grenade lobbing, bank bombing, and therefore the necessity to tighten security control, which leads to THIS, and future etc, etc, etc such as sieze & detain at will with minimal to no amount of evidence at all, charge with treason, tried and gunned in 7 days like China, or shall we say an even stricter law & tighter immigration control which will create more inconveniences to us OUTSIDERS.)

OUTSIDERS is to be pronounced with Thai accents for entertainment purpose. I like Thai English accents more than Singaporean/Malaysian English, HK accents, or my own, Taiwanese English.

Like another post I made following the bombing news. I think it would be wise to take a step back, calm down, see this as an entertainment or simply be an ignorant, tis not our fight. This is purely Thai politics power/turf struggle to the point of usage of intelligence, counter-intelligence, counter-counter intelligence and so on. The usages of propagandas and various ways of media brainwash are nothing new to advanced countries who overcame their own struggles in democracy, or their failed attempt to success in communism.

Average Thais stick to their tubes papers and got swayed by lies and tricks and firmly believe what they see and read. More intelligent ones simply change their channels or take a cynical/cautious attitude.

I can be an yellow extremist but wear a red and make wrong-do's in public to paint the opposite. Whoever (red/yellow) could have lobbed four grenades (military grade weapon yet two duds, good for those who goes to war with Thailand) to the front door of Bangkok bank after court's decision over taskin vs Thailand to vent the anger (red), or show the public that t's outraged (yellow). Then whoever planted more bombs down at south at the right moment gave dudes with guns the go ahead "hey men let's take over average Thais and ousted all opposites before we go against each other." Think about it, this is a very poor plot but it actually fooled most of the population. There are so many holes in the story one example, Y would taskin, as smart as he is, would want to resort to small scale violence right after court's decision? A guy with his intelligence, and the experiences so-far would know going out al capone style will paint him even more questionable. And so far as he knows, he is fighting a long-time-ago-already-lost war. It takes an army with real guns to fight in Thai politics, not through vid conferencing, shouting, or fighting in absentia.

give it a thought, exactly who's behind the grenade lobbing, bank bombing plot?

I have been thinking, and came to some conclusions. I've partially grew up and lived here for more than 20 yrs, and probably will retire here unless I can save enough and go New Zealand, not to mention my future generation will grow up here. Although the current political situation disgusts me, I still love with this country, and the people, most of the time. It is still a land of smile if you look at it carefully. I go buy something, handed the Ba some money, thank her, she thanks me more. And Thai girls from country side are still just amazing, same as 20+ yrs ago. I make a mistake at U turn, I turn in 100 baht tea money and I go (oh, if you're good bargainer with some techniques, you can plead, beg, and the police will let u go without a cent collected). Here, average people (all religions, provinces, sexes concerned) are just cool and calm, and thankful to their life. Although sometimes the slowness can tick one badly, and the cultural differences btw northern, southern, central, and northeast Thais can confuse one, give it sometime and a newcomer can adapt. It is a bit hot and humid on the weather scale, traffic jam is still lousy, and airport customs control is still horrible, but I can always go windsurfing and diving in world's top rated beaches, dive sites in the gulf of Thailand or Similan, or take BTS which was unimaginable 10 yrs ago, and be smiling that I am paying like nothing and I am not working or living in Indo, Malay, Vietnam, Cambo, Maynmar, or other lesser developed ASEAN countries. And yes, Malaysia is lesser developed in terms of personal, religious, ethnic tolerance if you happen to be a Chinese Malay.

Nonetheless, as I have predicted, the ripple effect of this political debacle is affecting all who live in Thailand, citizens or non-Thai residents in invasive ways.

If they can use the reason of national security as an excuse to sieze communication records, they would later know a guy has talked to his secret lover, a company hides something, or how much a successful person earned from his/her businesses, etc. Who will guarantee they will not abuse such records and power?

What's next then? show up at your door, and detain you for posting in Thai Visa forum for breach of national security, broadcasting influential thoughts?

We shall see, or.......... just ignore.

[Preferential]

How has free speech been inhibited? My understanding is that the servers and logs have been taken as evidence in the investigation of an alleged crime - incitement to make and use bombs. Is CAT still able to continue their business of hosting internet chats? Are we still able to use a similar facility to criticise and question the Thai government? Or express support for one or another political faction? Within the bounds of prevailing standards, of course.

This is not a story about free speech - it is a story about Information Technology and Communications and their role in terrorism, and combatting terrorism.

Thank you very much for bringing things back to reality from the knee-jerking.

[siampolee]

Can anyone actually explain what the problem is regarding the seizure of the equipment ?

I fail to see the difference ethically or morally between the equipment seizure and phone tapping, old fashioned surveillance techniques, the interception of mail etc.

Statements have been made threatening the security of the nation and its people, those people include you and me and in many cases our families.

The very fact that something constructive appears to have been done to allow us to walk the street without being blown to smithereens is indeed a comforting thought.

A little intervention by the security forces is to my mind a darn sight more civilized that civil unrest and urban terrorism.

The smart money is on prevention being better than the cure.

[dasy]

Big brother is wonderful.

Until they come knocking on your door with a list of illegal sites that are not acceptable for viewing here.

Very right indeed or what was ok to watch three years ago might be a reason to lock you up tomorrow or worse...

[animatic]

Once the IP if the laptop is ascertained, it can be traced each time it is used.

So a pattern can be discerned and logical repeats mapped and the culprit found.

[jackspratt]

It is is after all no surprise that Thailand has dropped to spots just behind Zimbabwe and Burma on the press freedom lists since the last putsch.

Thailand 130

(Malaysia) 131

(Singapore) 133

Zimbabwe 136

Burma 171

According the the Reporters Without Borders Index. Just google <press freedom index>, and look at the wikipedia entry.

[brianb1944]

More golden oldies from the playbook. This article has two purposes- linking the bombings with the Red-Shirts, and cracking down on dissidents as indicated in the last line of the article...

"in an attempt to identify the IP address of K. Thong, or any other people posting items in breach of the Computer Crime Act, and if they were able to be identified they will be summoned for questioning."

The junta is losing the battle for legitimacy and will soon give up on seeking it. Prepare for Burma mk. 2!

EDIT: I find the tone of some of the bloggers here simply terrifying- you'll allow every one of your rights to be taken away as long as it only affects people you disagree with. I'll be looking for you among the frenzied lynch mobs stuffing shoes down the throats of the hanging democracy-activists. Wake up, and don't allow history to repeat itself.

What a hysterical load of rubbish, what rights do you, as a Farang, imagine that you have in Thailand? Stuffing shoes down throats of lymchees may be common where you come from, but I have never heard of it?

[Wolfie]

Once the IP if the laptop is ascertained, it can be traced each time it is used.

So a pattern can be discerned and logical repeats mapped and the culprit found.

Your thinking of the MAC address, not the IP Address... IP addresses can change depending on providers etc, True for instance will change your IP address about once per day with an always-on ADSL connection. Its safe to assume that each time you connect to your ISP you will be given a new IP Address from a range of IP numbers they use. Typically you have to pay to use the same IP address each time (Static IP addresses)

Think of the MAC address as the serial number on your Network card/Wireless card - its pretty much unique and is hardware orientated - it is possible to spoof MAC addresses and/or change MAC addresses, but most people dont really know anything about them, so it does take a little specialised knowledge to do this

Thats in lay-man terms and may not be completely 100% correct, but gives you a basic understanding

[brianb1944]

hey...just talked to my gods and they promised to help me ignore all these nonsenses happening in Thai politics It is not a fight worth involving or watching anymore.

We shall see, or.......... just ignore.

Body of quote deleted in the interests of intellect.

It seems that the amount of rational thought that goes into a post is in inverse proportion to the length of said post. This one must be nearly a record.

[FM505]

More golden oldies from the playbook. This article has two purposes- linking the bombings with the Red-Shirts, and cracking down on dissidents as indicated in the last line of the article...

"in an attempt to identify the IP address of K. Thong, or any other people posting items in breach of the Computer Crime Act, and if they were able to be identified they will be summoned for questioning."

The junta is losing the battle for legitimacy and will soon give up on seeking it. Prepare for Burma mk. 2!

EDIT: I find the tone of some of the bloggers here simply terrifying- you'll allow every one of your rights to be taken away as long as it only affects people you disagree with. I'll be looking for you among the frenzied lynch mobs stuffing shoes down the throats of the hanging democracy-activists. Wake up, and don't allow history to repeat itself.

Amen JohnCitizen.

[SeanMoran]

Once the IP if the laptop is ascertained, it can be traced each time it is used.

So a pattern can be discerned and logical repeats mapped and the culprit found.

Your thinking of the MAC address, not the IP Address... IP addresses can change depending on providers etc, True for instance will change your IP address about once per day with an always-on ADSL connection. Its safe to assume that each time you connect to your ISP you will be given a new IP Address from a range of IP numbers they use. Typically you have to pay to use the same IP address each time (Static IP addresses)

Think of the MAC address as the serial number on your Network card/Wireless card - its pretty much unique and is hardware orientated - it is possible to spoof MAC addresses and/or change MAC addresses, but most people dont really know anything about them, so it does take a little specialised knowledge to do this

Thats in lay-man terms and may not be completely 100% correct, but gives you a basic understanding

I'd say you're fairly spot on, and MAC addresses are not usually passed across the Internet, unless there's some sort of software goes snooping around on your PC. I maybe wrong but I am under the impression that the ISP normally gets the IP address, so that we can be recognised during our online session, but MAC addresses are not relevant to the Internet. I am sure it is possible, but do ISPs try to record MAC addresses nowdays? I'd think it's rather an intrusion on my laptop.

[wlcart]

the term BIG BROTHER as I understand it comes from the book 1984.

The book clearly states how a government uses an enemy as an excuse to abuse power.

Personally, I worry more about my rights being taken. I still feel quite safe here in Thailand.

I just don't think that a violent political movement in Thailand has any popular support and therefor does not equate an real threat.

There will always be thugs out their, and will always be government, neither should use the other as an excuse to do the wrong thing.

Edited March 4, 2010 by wlcart

[denissr]

It was said here that CAT was owned by the government, seems like the government would be able to investigate the anti-government actions that would harm the general public on their own property? Calling normal police work “Big Brother” is spreading propaganda, it is just not true. In the U.S. some of us protested the so-called Patriotic Act, because it allowed individuals to tap phone lines and internet traffic with out any controls. Before the Patriotic Act they could still do this, but they had to go to a secret court and get permission. We were proved right when it was discovered that Intelligence workers were listening in on conversations between unsuspecting soldiers and their families for no good reason. Our Government was violating the Rights of the same people who thought they were fighting to protecting their Rights. It looks like to me the Thai Police were doing exactly what they were supposed to do, protect the safety and rights of their citizens.