How Many Fluent Farangs Are There?

[kikenyoy]

Chris Delivery (English teacher...his videos are good for learning Thai also)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqB3Gw6Xej0...feature=related

and of course, Stu Jay Raj:

[aanon]

My Mum always used to say to me, oh you must be fluent in Thai by now. I have never agreed with her. I can hold conversations depending on the subject. Some subjects just floor me, a good example would be taking my motorbike to get fixed because i don't know any vocabulary apart from เครื่อง. So i would say i am conversant. I can read and write conversational Thai (i mostly use it on MSN). I've never been to any class and have learned from books. The biggest help for me was Chaing Mai University's course book. I sometimes get the tone or the vowel wrong but all these things take time, and that is that i have so i will continue at my own pace.

Thinking about this, there are plenty of native Thai speakers who don't know the technical terms to get their motorbike fixed. They just go to the mechanic and say "It's making a rattling noise" or "I can't overtake buses like I used to". Same applies in the areas of law, business, medicine, linguistics and so on. A Thai might lack the vocab to talk about buddhism or politics, or even to use 'royal speak' correctly. Native speakers develop techniques for fudging their way through -- and so must we. It's probably just that you know the motorbike-related terms in English that you feel so lost without them in Thai. Just some random thoughts.

[Rikker]

Chris Delivery (English teacher...his videos are good for learning Thai also)

Christopher Wright is a native speaker. Mother is Thai, born and raised in Thailand.

I have met many dozens (but not quite hundreds) of foreigners (farang or otherwise) highly conversant in Thai. Most of the people I've met who had good speaking skills could also read relatively well, AFAIK. I know a number of embassy employees with very good Thai, as well as businessmen, etc. Many of the very good ones have been speaking Thai for decades, but I've also met many who had been here for a matter of months, perhaps a year or two, and are very advanced for the limited time spent learning. It mostly came down to the immersion environment, it seemed. When you can't (or are determined not to) speak English, you can learn Thai very quickly.

[tombkk]

A large proportion of farangs live here in retirement etc etc etc - therefore they certainly have no need - or even desire to speak Thai. But it certainly would be very interesting to know how a typical farang learns to speak Thai - how long it takes - and how fluent they become.

My "guesstimate" would be only 10% or less of farang retirees attempt to speak Thai.

From my observation the "younger generation" of farang is divided in 2 groups.

1) Those who have a legitimate job in Thailand - who are send - and are paid - by their parent Company - perhaps 30% of them attempt to learn Thai at some point.

2) Those who typically desire to live in Thailand - but have no "legitimate job" BEFORE the arrive are forced to study because they need a Ed Visa to be able to stay long term. This is probably the largest proportion of "Thai-learners" and farangs in general. This is the group targetted by many Schools.

Interesting categorisation. I was initially sent to Thailand by my company, but I desire to live here. On the other hand, while "holding a legitimate job", I am not "younger generation" any more.

My point? - I am fluent in Thai, but I would still like to know where you got yourt statistics from.

[tombkk]

I guess the first step would be for you to describe your definition of "fluent". On forums like the one at http://how-to-learn-any-language.com the topic has been debated to death and there is still no agreed upon standard. Opinions range from being able to "get by" in daily life to being able to attend a University and be able to understand and participate in a lecture on any subject.

Based on your standard, the number will vary greatly.

Well, for European languages there is a standard that every teacher on this list should be aware of:

http://www.coe.int/T/DG4/Linguistic/CADRE_EN.asp

I think this can be applied to Thai language as well.

[tombkk]

I guess the first step would be for you to describe your definition of "fluent". On forums like the one at http://how-to-learn-any-language.com the topic has been debated to death and there is still no agreed upon standard. Opinions range from being able to "get by" in daily life to being able to attend a University and be able to understand and participate in a lecture on any subject.

Based on your standard, the number will vary greatly.

Excellent post. You took the words out of my mouth. Many farangs at my place of work consider me fluent but I well know I would have great difficulty in a Prathom 6 class never mind a university lecture in Thai.

So do I count or not? Over to you, OP.

p.s. one of the main factors in approaching fluency in any language is the age at which you take it up.

OK, so at what age should I stop learning new languages? I still have Khmer on my list, and want to improve my Mandarin.

[tombkk]

My son once said that my spoken Thai sounds more natural than Mr. Biggs'. I thought he was taking the piss but apparently not. I can also speak comfortably round Thai six year olds. Speak about politics in Thai almost daily. I can read Thai and translate from Thai to English, but cannot write Thai to save my life. Thus, I would not count myself as fluent even though I may go many days at a time without speaking any English at all.

Never took a formal lesson in Thai language and the only book I had was the black bible "The Fundamentals of the Thai Language".

I agree that there are different levels of fluency, but do not agree that fluency can only be gained through formal study as some seem to believe.

That book is the bible! Yes, I learned with "The Fundamentals of the Thai Language" as well. My writing is nothing to write home about, but sufficient for one customer who I have to send faxes to and who doesn't read English.

[Parvis]

tombkk

You may notice I call my categorization "guesstimates" - in no way should be considered "statistics". In other words - from my perspective with my limited knowledge - those are my "guesses". I realize other people may have different opinions - but in general they will probably not differ greatly.

I am also in the "older generation" and I am familiar with their "Thailanguage - expertise". I do not agree that the older generation has more difficulty in learning. As a certain individual from a rather "loud" School pointed out when I complained about Book 1 - he suggested in different words "You are too old".

I assume you took offense in my suggestion that less than 10% of the "older generation" farangs ATTEMPT to speak Thai. As another poster pointed out - 10% is probably an exaggeration.

I also speak Thai - but not fluently. I also read Thai - but not fluently. I also write in Thaiscript - but not fluently. In other words I would not attempt to pass myself off as anything else as an Advanced Beginner - or maybe Intermediate.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Parvis

[tombkk]

tombkk

You may notice I call my categorization "guesstimates" - in no way should be considered "statistics". In other words - from my perspective with my limited knowledge - those are my "guesses". I realize other people may have different opinions - but in general they will probably not differ greatly.

OK, different people have different opinions. I come from an academic background, sorry for having misinterepreted your guesstimates as statistics.

I am also in the "older generation" and I am familiar with their "Thailanguage - expertise". I do not agree that the older generation has more difficulty in learning. As a certain individual from a rather "loud" School pointed out when I complained about Book 1 - he suggested in different words "You are too old".

I assume you took offense in my suggestion that less than 10% of the "older generation" farangs ATTEMPT to speak Thai. As another poster pointed out - 10% is probably an exaggeration.

To tell the truth, I didn't take offense. I merely meant to ask whether you can back it up. I am still curious where you get these percentages from.

I also speak Thai - but not fluently. I also read Thai - but not fluently. I also write in Thaiscript - but not fluently. In other words I would not attempt to pass myself off as anything else as an Advanced Beginner - or maybe Intermediate.

Thanks for the clarification.

[leah]

Here's another fluent farang: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWxKNFLs8xI

and another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLRKvqKrgao

Both are young guys who appear very fluent. Would love to know how they learned!

[Rikker]

I know Adam (jadambrad), as it happens. His Thai is pretty good. Didn't know he had videos on YouTube until just now, though.

[meadish_sweetball]

Adam's Thai accent is truly excellent, if it weren't for the odd turn of phrase he could easily pass for native over the phone. Also noticed he has adopted a more trebly mid tone pitch for Thai compared to the pitch baseline for his American voice (I used to speak Thai with a higher baseline pitch as well but it's not strictly necessary, Thai people will understand you even if you speak within your normal pitch range, and on the upside you will find it less strainful on your voice and probably feel more relaxed, too).

[Rikker]

I guess I have high standards. I first met him when he had been studying Thai for about 18 months. He's definitely far ahead of the curve with his accent, but like anyone in his position he still just needs more years of speaking, reading and listening under his belt to absorb more of everything that will make him a better speaker all around.

[dobadoy]

I guess I have high standards. I first met him when he had been studying Thai for about 18 months. He's definitely far ahead of the curve with his accent, but like anyone in his position he still just needs more years of speaking, reading and listening under his belt to absorb more of everything that will make him a better speaker all around.

so i guess what you're trying to tell us is you're a fluent farang yourself?

[desi]

so i guess what you're trying to tell us is you're a fluent farang yourself?

Why don't you decide for yourself?

Rikker on Changkhui153

(Note: Rikker had a cold at the time)

[villagefarang]

Personally I don't feel you need to know everything about everything, to consider yourself fluent. You don't need to be indistinguishable from a newscaster or university lecturer. How many of us speak our own language that well? Even if functionally illiterate it doesn't mean one cannot be a fluent speaker of a language.

If you set unrealistic or unachievable goal then the tendency is to get discouraged. Just do the best you can and don't give up. I was not the best student when I started out and spent far too much time in the wrong company. Picked up some really bad stuff early on. It is all correctable.

Over time, with a little effort, you'll be surprised how far you can go. I would only be concerned with what the Thais in your daily life think of your language ability. What some other Farang thinks is of no legitimate concern. Too much ego involved.

[dobadoy]

I would only be concerned with what the Thais in your daily life think of your language ability. What some other Farang thinks is of no legitimate concern. Too much ego involved.

100% true

Edited March 13, 2010 by dobadoy

[Rikker]

so i guess what you're trying to tell us is you're a fluent farang yourself?

I guess so. I agree with villagefarang's comments that being fluent doesn't mean knowing everything for all situations. My own weaknesses with Thai are plenty, but I still feel like I can call myself fluent. I make no claim to knowing everything about the language. Extremely far from it.