Importing Solar Panels From China. The Cost?

[stevehaigh]

i got a quote for a 2000W solar panel array, including controller and inverter, from a company in China for $US4745 FOB Shanghai

i think shipping is only a few hundred dollars and at that price i'm thinking of buying a container load and selling some.

but i wonder what the import duties and fees will be on that? anyone know? i heard that there is a trade agreement between Thailand and China so it should be cheap but i also heard the Thai government imposes high tariffs on solar power equipment, presumably to encourage people to burn more oil!

anyhow, maybe i should post in the business forum but since its a building product i thought i'd try here first

[hhgz]

I think that your best bet is to check with the Thai Customs website.

Too, I'd rethink the number of homeowners that you expect to buy a solar-powered electrical generating system for $6-7,000 USD.

"i also heard the Thai government imposes high tariffs on solar power equipment, presumably to encourage people to burn more oil!"

Rather than encouraging people to burn more oil, I bet that the tariffs are used to protect Thailand's home technology market, and that

brings me to the final point. How about checking out equivalent solar equipment available in Thailand?

[chiang mai]

The OP could certainly sell excess units into the UK at that price, a 2KW system there sells for around £15k or USD 20K.

[Gary A]

That's a really good price. About 1/3rd of the US price. Is there a decent warranty?

[hhgz]

"The OP could certainly sell excess units into the UK at that price..."

Perhaps, but the equipment will be in Thailand. Accordingly, he'll need to export it to the UK, and pay more transportation and duty.

Too, I'm not sure that solar-powered electrical generation systems sell themselves. He'll probably need to set up a sales office, and find a partner that will install the system.

[eljeque]

Can you warranty this equipment here?

Can you repair it?

The Chinese company will not travel here to repair anything, and if these items do not perform as stated, you are going to have a lot of angry customers who are going to demand their money back.

You will also need a license to import these items and a business license to sell them.

I think it is going to be difficult to find enough foreigners to put their hands that deeply into their pockets for a solar panel array.

Few will even buy solar water heaters.

Best of luck to you.

Edited March 8, 2010 by eljeque

[gotlost]

That's a really good price. About 1/3rd of the US price. Is there a decent warranty?

The warranty is good until the item breaks.

[chiang mai]

"The OP could certainly sell excess units into the UK at that price..."

Perhaps, but the equipment will be in Thailand. Accordingly, he'll need to export it to the UK, and pay more transportation and duty.

Too, I'm not sure that solar-powered electrical generation systems sell themselves. He'll probably need to set up a sales office, and find a partner that will install the system.

I agree that it's early days in the UK for this kind of thing but if you spend some time trawling around the related web sites you'll note that the ball has started to roll, I reckon there's going to be a huge demand on this front over time and oddly, government is helping (for once). It's a medium/long term business proposition but and the key is getting supply of reasonably priced materials which the OP seems to have isolated. BTW, from what I've read on this subject there's also a secondary installer market emerging so that's very positive, weak/risk link in the chain is the supplier of materials.

Edited March 8, 2010 by chiang mai

[stevehaigh]

i agree, the warranty isn't worth much since its hard to claim against them in china so selling them seems like a pain. but still interested for myself

here's their website

http://www.haitaisolar.com

there is a thai company that sells panels http://www.solartron.co.th/ but as usual for most Thai companies, they don't reply to email

i looked on the thai customs web site and it says 60% plus all the extra stuff so it works out about 100% tariff. the customs web site desn't specifically mention China FTA or solar panels however

[stevehaigh]

here's another quote from http://www.wn-solar.cn/

(this is a quote, don't blame me for the english)

we are the manufacture of solar cell and solar panel , so the price we give you is so competitive.we also can give you 25 years warranty, if a just trading company, they jsut give you one years .

2: we produce the solar panel from 2 w to 300w. you told us you are so interested in 240w. so the datasheet is as follows.

the output is 240w.

the working voltage : 34.45v

the working current :6.97 A

the open voltage:44.26v

the short circuit current:8.20 A

the size of it is 992*1720*50mm

the weight is about 25kgs

the output is 90% within 10 years

the output is 85% within 85 years

3: i have already enlcosed the front and back of it, you can have a look. as we know that there are seven parts in the solar panel

solar cell: the transfer effcient is 17%

glass: we choose the 3.5mm for the thickness

junction box : which has the bypass diodes that can avoid the short circuit

silicon: keep long life

frame: there are four rain holes,

TPT

EVA

i have already enlcosed the structure of it, you can have a look

4: the output wire is 90cm, and the conntoer is MC3, and the shape is round. i added the pictures, you can have a check.

5: we pack your goods by carton and then woonden case or pallets, i have already added the pciturtes , it has 45 pieces for one pallet.

6: today , the stock market is going down, just due to the the value of RMB is going on. we can give you 1.40 FOB/W .

we can give you 1kw USD 2199

2KW USD 4398

5KW USD 10998

the price we give you including four parts.

solar panel

controller

battery

inverter.

support.

I'm not sure what 'support' covers, probably just email support, still pretty good price IMHO. i figure run the AC's all day for free.

[chiang mai]

here's another quote from http://www.wn-solar.cn/

(this is a quote, don't blame me for the english)

we are the manufacture of solar cell and solar panel , so the price we give you is so competitive.we also can give you 25 years warranty, if a just trading company, they jsut give you one years .

2: we produce the solar panel from 2 w to 300w. you told us you are so interested in 240w. so the datasheet is as follows.

the output is 240w.

the working voltage : 34.45v

the working current :6.97 A

the open voltage:44.26v

the short circuit current:8.20 A

the size of it is 992*1720*50mm

the weight is about 25kgs

the output is 90% within 10 years

the output is 85% within 85 years

3: i have already enlcosed the front and back of it, you can have a look. as we know that there are seven parts in the solar panel

solar cell: the transfer effcient is 17%

glass: we choose the 3.5mm for the thickness

junction box : which has the bypass diodes that can avoid the short circuit

silicon: keep long life

frame: there are four rain holes,

TPT

EVA

i have already enlcosed the structure of it, you can have a look

4: the output wire is 90cm, and the conntoer is MC3, and the shape is round. i added the pictures, you can have a check.

5: we pack your goods by carton and then woonden case or pallets, i have already added the pciturtes , it has 45 pieces for one pallet.

6: today , the stock market is going down, just due to the the value of RMB is going on. we can give you 1.40 FOB/W .

we can give you 1kw USD 2199

2KW USD 4398

5KW USD 10998

the price we give you including four parts.

solar panel

controller

battery

inverter.

support.

I'm not sure what 'support' covers, probably just email support, still pretty good price IMHO. i figure run the AC's all day for free.

At 5 baht per unit locally it means the payback period is horrendous, ROCE and ROI are very poor, perhaps do your consumption math before going to the next stage.

[stevehaigh]

At 5 baht per unit locally it means the payback period is horrendous, ROCE and ROI are very poor, perhaps do your consumption math before going to the next stage.

a unit is how many kwhrs? i would like to do the math

good news on import however, i talked to a very nice, helpful girl in Thai customs and now know how to use their web site.

the code for solar cells is 8541.40 so look it up as in the pic below and select ASEAN as the origin and you will see it is exempted from import duty. still have to pay VAT and handling fees but that should come to less than 30% i think

steve

Edited March 9, 2010 by stevehaigh

[stevehaigh]

assuming 1 units is 1kW/h and costs 5b/unit, ie 5b/kWh.

a 1000W solar system costs about $2700 inc shipping and import fees so that's about 85000b for 1kW for about 6 hours/day so 6kWh per day of production

6kWh would cost 30 baht at 5b/unit so to pay back 85000b setup cost, that's 2833 sunny days = 8.9 years assuming 320 sunny days per year but not including degradation as panels get older, so in realty, maybe about 10 year payback.

does this math look right?

[Naam]

assuming 1 units is 1kW/h and costs 5b/unit, ie 5b/kWh.

a 1000W solar system costs about $2700 inc shipping and import fees so that's about 85000b for 1kW for about 6 hours/day so 6kWh per day of production

6kWh would cost 30 baht at 5b/unit so to pay back 85000b setup cost, that's 2833 sunny days = 8.9 years assuming 320 sunny days per year but not including degradation as panels get older, so in realty, maybe about 10 year payback.

does this math look right?

not really if one considers that a capital of 85,000 Baht generates returns too without being spent on a PV-system

[stevehaigh]

assuming 1 units is 1kW/h and costs 5b/unit, ie 5b/kWh.

a 1000W solar system costs about $2700 inc shipping and import fees so that's about 85000b for 1kW for about 6 hours/day so 6kWh per day of production

6kWh would cost 30 baht at 5b/unit so to pay back 85000b setup cost, that's 2833 sunny days = 8.9 years assuming 320 sunny days per year but not including degradation as panels get older, so in realty, maybe about 10 year payback.

does this math look right?

not really if one considers that a capital of 85,000 Baht generates returns too without being spent on a PV-system

except most of my investment returns in the last couple of years have been negative, but that's another story.

actually my unit cost of electric is about 3.5b/unit in cha-am, it was about 6b/unit in ko phangan so even less reason to do it in cha-am

its a shame really, i'd like to be green but money talks

[gregb]

I got a quote for a 2000W solar panel array, including controller and inverter, from a company in China for $US4745 FOB Shanghai

$2.37/watt is not a bad price, but it isn't the very best price available today. The best deals at Sun Electronics (sunelec.com) are only about half that. Of course, FOB Maimi vs. FOB China is going to drive your shipping charges up slightly, but I would still take a long hard look at the math and exactly what you are buying before coming to any decision.

I personally have been looking around for a Thai supplier willing to let panels go in the $1 - $2 range which seems to be common in the developed world, but everyone over here still seems to be stuck in historical pricing that isn't keeping up with reality.

As for warranty, I wouldn't worry about it. Just get twice what you need and then replace them when they break. The shipping charges make any type of warranty service meaningless on something like a solar panel unless it is a local company. Besides, the cells themselves are the important part of a panel, and even broken they can still be wired up and used. I'm sure for 500 baht a guy down at Bahn Moh would completely rewire the thing for you, and for 2000 baht you can get an entire custom made enclosure with a glass panel. Be cheaper than shipping it back to where you bought it.

I would be extremely interested in hearing your experiences with shipping and Thai customs if you do this. I've been considering it myself since there doesn't seem to be any Thai suppliers looking to service this particular market. Please be kind and keep us informed of what you do.

[gregb]

assuming 1 units is 1kW/h and costs 5b/unit, ie 5b/kWh.

a 1000W solar system costs about $2700 inc shipping and import fees so that's about 85000b for 1kW for about 6 hours/day so 6kWh per day of production

6kWh would cost 30 baht at 5b/unit so to pay back 85000b setup cost, that's 2833 sunny days = 8.9 years assuming 320 sunny days per year but not including degradation as panels get older, so in realty, maybe about 10 year payback.

does this math look right?

not really if one considers that a capital of 85,000 Baht generates returns too without being spent on a PV-system

There's alot more than just that actually. It is true the 85,000 baht may generate a return, however it is equally likely energy prices could rise faster than the rate of return on investments. So, Steve may not be wrong setting this value at 0. The net value could even be negative. Or you could be correct and he should include a positive coefficient here. It all depends on assumptions.

The other problem is that the solar panels do not depreciate to 0. Even after a decade, they will still have a non zero value, so even if it nominally takes a long time to pay for itself it still may be a good investment. As I said, it is the solar cell itself that embeds the value in a panel. A Thai technician can easily rewire even broken cells into a new panel, so my guess is there will still be embedded value in these solar panels even after 50 years.

Of course, I have no idea about the long term value of the new amporphous silcon style panels. Those may turn out to have entirely different aging characteristics than the crystalline cells do.

I think this is one of those areas that requires a crystal ball. However, if you accept you should diversify your investments, there is room in any portfolio for solar panels at the right price. Really comes down to whether you believe energy prices are going to stay at these low levels or increase.

Edited March 17, 2010 by gregb

[pwm]

good news on import however, i talked to a very nice, helpful girl in Thai customs and now know how to use their web site.

the code for solar cells is 8541.40 so look it up as in the pic below and select ASEAN as the origin and you will see it is exempted from import duty. still have to pay VAT and handling fees but that should come to less than 30% i think

Didn't go and look at the web site myself, but China is not part of ASEAN.

Regards,

Pat.

[gregb]

good news on import however, i talked to a very nice, helpful girl in Thai customs and now know how to use their web site.

the code for solar cells is 8541.40 so look it up as in the pic below and select ASEAN as the origin and you will see it is exempted from import duty. still have to pay VAT and handling fees but that should come to less than 30% i think

Didn't go and look at the web site myself, but China is not part of ASEAN.

Regards,

Pat.

Doesn't matter. The general tariff is also "exempt". I did check.

I am still curious to know why there are no Thai suppliers for these things though. Seems like somebody would be interested in servicing the market.