Thai Passport Renewal For My Son

[pete66]

my 10 year son's thai passport expires in six months and I have no idea where to get it renewed?

Also, is any documentation required apart from the current valid passport? My ex-wife ran off with the "Thabian baan" which has my son's name on and is refusing to let me get his name transferred to anywhere....

I'm actually pretty clueless on the thabian baan thing altogether. It seems it will be very hard for my son to do anything in Thailand without this document.

What are my options if my ex-wife refuses to help. She's prepared to do something for "a load of cash" but she had the very last load of cash she's ever getting from me a long time ago. It all went to the casino anyway, along with the house, the car !!

Any advice on (a) passport renewal requirements and ( how to get my son on a thabian baan without the old document or any other involvement from his mother?

thanks,

[Mario2008]

A Thai passport requires the signature of both parents, unless one of the parents has sole custody. Not sure if you can extend a passport.

If applying at a Thai embassy for a Passport, there is no need to be registered in someone's tabien baan.

For applying for a Thai passport in Thailand look here: http://www.mfa.go.th/web/473.php?id=3167

[pete66]

A Thai passport requires the signature of both parents, unless one of the parents has sole custody. Not sure if you can extend a passport.

If applying at a Thai embassy for a Passport, there is no need to be registered in someone's tabien baan.

For applying for a Thai passport in Thailand look here: http://www.mfa.go.th/web/473.php?id=3167

Thanks for the info and the link to the Thai government site. It certainly helps. Unfortunately like you say, it doesn't really say anything about a passport renewal. Anyone got a clue?

The point here is basically the Thai mother has "run off" to a location she won't disclose to anyone because she was being chased by the Cambodian / Thai mafia for a lot of gambling debts. I have an email address, thats it.

Is my son really going to lose his Thai citizenship, his birthright, because of this? Seems a tad unfair.

And yes, I need a lawyer, I know. I tried for 2 years to get a good one and all I ran into was liars and cheats, most weren't even lawyers, all promised me "an easy job" and then came the "upsell" ......

Sorry for the rant - guess I just need to find out if renewal is as difficult as initial application. If it is, I'm out of this country with my son.

[Mario2008]

Your son will have diual nationality. You can also check with your own embassy to get a passport for your son.

Not being able to get a Thai passport doesn't mean he isn't Thai. He is Thai, but just for the moment can't get a Thai passport for traveling.

If you can email your wife, maybe she is willing to fill in the form and sign it to get a new passport? She doesn't have to go to a passport office herself.

Regarding a lawyer, Isaanlawyers/Thailawonline have a very good reputation regarding family law.

If you want to leave the country permanently with your son, I would advise you to try and get sole custody over the child first. You can than also apply for a Thai passport. Document as much as possible about the mother being unfit to take care of her child.

It is not necessary to be divorced for filing for sole custody if the mother is unfit/unable to take care of the child.

[Chaam local]

Unfortunately like you say, it doesn't really say anything about a passport renewal. Anyone got a clue?

I think it's because an e-passport can't be extended or renewed. You just apply for a new passport. So it looks like you need the mother's consent, or proof of sole custody.

Is my son really going to lose his Thai citizenship, his birthright, because of this?

No, why should he? Travelling documents and house registration are not required to prove Thai nationality, only the birth certificate is.

Good luck.

[pete66]

Thanks again. Great answer, and yes I overreacted about my son not being Thai. It is more like you say, just "not having a passport". To be clear as I can:

1) My wife is a gambling addict. She won't lift a finger for her son (not for me, for her son) without seeing XXX,XXX baht first. Sad but true.

2) My son has had a UK passport since a few days after he was born. That isn't the problem for us. He can live in the UK the rest of his life. The issue is he has lived most of his life in Thailand and feels Thai. If we go to the UK now, get him in an English school for a year or two and his Thai passport expires, he's no longer eligible to enter Thailand as a thai, is that right?

3) Regarding "evidence as unfit mother", we went through this very painfully last year with several top Thai law firms, and I mean stellar reputations. They considered the case very difficult, and as I'll never forget, primarily they were honest to admit "Thai courts tend to favour Thai mothers over foreign fathers". Also, they wanted supporting witnesses, and as I lived with thais, the maid etc. I asked them about it, and guess what they wanted. A boat load of cash to help me, because they were "scared of her".

Only my son was prepared to say stuff honestly, about how the Cambodian mafia turned up at his house and threatened to take him away at gun-point so his mum would be forced to pay up .... but the lawyers said .... sure, kids say that now, but when confronted with their mother in a court-room (or elsewhere), suddenly they seem to forget everything that happend.

To be honest, all that stuff was complete bs. Everyone was just after dosh from a "stupid farang". I'm not going through that again. It was also very dangerous.

I've already taken him back to the UK to learn. I'm not worried about leaving. I'm certainly not going through the bs of a thai court / thai lawyers for that. Just about if he decides he is so Thai he wants to come back here .... if he hasn't got a Thai passport on re-entry, he will be stuck with thai tourist or whatever bs and we will be back to square one (or worse).

We have his thai birth certificate if that helps.

Again, sorry for the waffle. This stuff happened 2 years ago, but it is still very difficult for us to deal with in some ways..

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

pete

Your son will have diual nationality. You can also check with your own embassy to get a passport for your son.

Not being able to get a Thai passport doesn't mean he isn't Thai. He is Thai, but just for the moment can't get a Thai passport for traveling.

If you can email your wife, maybe she is willing to fill in the form and sign it to get a new passport? She doesn't have to go to a passport office herself.

Regarding a lawyer, Isaanlawyers/Thailawonline have a very good reputation regarding family law.

If you want to leave the country permanently with your son, I would advise you to try and get sole custody over the child first. You can than also apply for a Thai passport. Document as much as possible about the mother being unfit to take care of her child.

It is not necessary to be divorced for filing for sole custody if the mother is unfit/unable to take care of the child.

[Mario2008]

2 No, but it would be problematic. Technically his birth certificate proofs he is Thai and he can always get a visa anyway as your dependent.

3. The experience of a lot of members on this forum is that Thai courts are not biased and will make a decision based on the well being of the child. However, getting sole custody is always problematic. Thai courts prefer joined custody and only grant sole custody when it is really necessary. There is some interested reading about this on the forum.

Filing a police report that the mother is missing might also help.

The problems with his Thai passport are only there till he becomes of age and no longer needs the permission of his parents to get a passport, or you get sole custody. Once 15 he will be able to get a Thai ID-card, if registered on someones household book and use that as proof of Thai nationality.

[pete66]

2 No, but it would be problematic. Technically his birth certificate proofs he is Thai and he can always get a visa anyway as your dependent.

3. The experience of a lot of members on this forum is that Thai courts are not biased and will make a decision based on the well being of the child. However, getting sole custody is always problematic. Thai courts prefer joined custody and only grant sole custody when it is really necessary. There is some interested reading about this on the forum.

Filing a police report that the mother is missing might also help.

The problems with his Thai passport are only there till he becomes of age and no longer needs the permission of his parents to get a passport, or you get sole custody. Once 15 he will be able to get a Thai ID-card, if registered on someones household book and use that as proof of Thai nationality.

ok, many thanks. certainly sounds like a missing person report is something I should do. just don't know if "email contact" counts as "missing"

the 2nd question is therefore how to get him on a household book. which is what I've been trying to do the last two years. i don't really understand how it works, but it seems (yet again) because he was previously registered on the old house owned by his mother, we need her signature / permission to move elsewhere. and guess what, I asked her, and she said "XXX,XXX" .... sigh.

but any "solid info" on that would be gratefully received. He is 10, can he not choose yet where to register his household? Its even been hel_l getting him a thai school for the last 2 year in thailand .....

[Mario2008]

Not sure about the requirements for changing his place of residence. You might be able to do it alone, but probably will need at least the household book to remove him from there. You will at least need a Thai willing to put him on his/her household book.

The Thai public service manual says this:

http://www.dopa.go.th/English/servi/move.htm

[Mario2008]

As this topic is about much more than just a Thai passport I have moved it to the family and children section.

In that section there is a lot of info on divorce and child custody.

[pete66]

As this topic is about much more than just a Thai passport I have moved it to the family and children section.

In that section there is a lot of info on divorce and child custody.

Thanks. One final question for now. I am worried about even whether we would be able to leave Thailand together if his Thai passport expired (6 months time). Would the Thai immigration let us out? He would have his UK passport, but that would have no entry stamp.

Or even, how close to expiry before they would let him out?

Any ideas on this?

[Mario2008]

Normally a passport has to have at least 6 month validity to be able to enter another country, some require only 3 months. on an expired passport you can normaly not travel, but for traveling to Thailand it isn't a problem.

He can leave Thailand on the UK passport. Take the birthcertificate with you, they will see he was born in Thailand and so doesn't have an entry stamp. This is the normal procedure in a case like this. Returning can still be done on the Thai passport, as an expired passport is valid to enter Thailand.

[pete66]

Normally a passport has to have at least 6 month validity to be able to enter another country, some require only 3 months. on an expired passport you can normaly not travel, but for traveling to Thailand it isn't a problem.

He can leave Thailand on the UK passport. Take the birthcertificate with you, they will see he was born in Thailand and so doesn't have an entry stamp. This is the normal procedure in a case like this. Returning can still be done on the Thai passport, as an expired passport is valid to enter Thailand.

Oh wow - does that mean he can enter and leave Thailand "indefinitely", even after his passport expires? Would be the first bit of goods news in this mess for a long time

Thanks again for the great answers!

[MikeyIdea]

A few things here:

You need to clearly find out if you really need the mother and I don't know if you have custody or not and that makes it difficult to advice.

Did you ever marry the mother? If you did, then you are the legal father and have shared custody. I have specifically asked amphur about changing residence: What you need to bring is evidence that you have shared custody (if you married the mother then the evidence is already in Amphurs computers), your passport and copies of course (proving that you are you) and the childs birth certificate (copy should be enough actually) and yes, you can change tabien baan without the mothers involvement and without bringing the old tabien baan. I didn't marry the mother but I legitimized my child at the amphur instead and for that case, the Amphur require the original "certificate of fathership" (bai rapp long bott). Confirm: Old tabien baan not needed to move residence. Not that tabien baan is that important actually. It is only proof of residence, nothing else.

Do you have the original birth certificate? Always good to have. If you have shared custody then you can request a new one. You need a police report stating that you have lost the birth certificate. Easy, you can't find the old one (because you can't find the mother...), not even a lie and you go to the same amphur where the child was born and bring the police report, evidence of shared custody, your passport and copies of course and request a new one. Not difficult at all. You cannot get a new original BC if you don't have shared custody though

File a police report that the mother is missing, the mother IS missing so that is not a lie. Sod the email, not important... Keep the police report as evidence of abandonment, to be used later

I think that it sounds like you have been duped by bad lawyers. It should not be difficult at all for you to get 50/50 custody (if you don't already have it) and the child stays with you the lion share of the time, the mother still has custody and visitation rights. Why? Because you have a 10 year old child who can testify for you, wants to stay with you. Thai courts will listen to the wish of a 10 year old, they also fancy that you have a good home environment ready for the child and fixed income as a reputable teacher while the mother has nothing... Remember that you can sue at your place of residence and the mother has to come to you, if she doesn't come... then you will eventually be granted shared custody if you don't already have it and - if you already are taking the child to a school then it is not difficult for the courts to enforce that you can continue to do that of course, limits the mothers power to move the child.

Time really seems to work in your favour here, the child is with you and will be more and more attached to you. Personally I would also maybe not actively refuse the mother access to the child but at least not encourage it. The less contact the mother has with the child the better the day you bring the missing mothers police report and take the whole thing to juvenile court. Assuming that the mother is not good for the child as well as not good for you... One thing I must say - There is no need to be afraid of the Thai Juvenile court system if you are and have been a good father, remember that. The Juvenile court may not give you everything you want, but they will take a decision in the best interest of the child

Beware of trying to leave Thailand with your child on a British passport with no entry stamp - if you don't have the birth certificate with you, immigration could stop him - like they did with me and my daughter, they required her birth certificate (don't know if it was the original or just the copy they wanted). Anyone can sign a "permission to travel" document as long as the signature at the bottom shows the same name as the mothers name on the birth certificate, not a problem

Why has it been he_ll getting him into a school? Only thing needed to do that should be copy of tabien baan. If the mother refuse to provide that and it affects the childs education, document it and that should be a good reason to get the lion share of the custody. Sounds like you don't have shared custody or has it and don't know what to do. Which would be why you posted in the first place I suppose

More info please

Edited March 22, 2010 by MikeyIdea