The 2010 Formula One Season

[wackysleet]

Yermanee

Don't give up on a forum just 'cos you get some flack! You were proven right and if you love F1, you must need to share your views after a race. Its what we all enjoy, whether we agree with the views expressed or not

I'm a HUGE Schumi fan so have received lots of flack from many people - who cares? Its all about enjoying the races and arguing your corner.

Spot on advice from F1.

I have to admit that F1 took some stick and I was very surprised and glad to see him return, as the saying goes, "water off a ducks back"

[rixalex]

Agree with most of your post, but BOTH RBR drivers were v happy to stay under the safety car. It was obvious that the race needed to be started under the SC, but it stayed out too long.

Have to admit that as soon as Vettel radioed in (as soon as 75% of laps had been done and he would have received maximum points.....) I was pissed off. His attitude was understandable, but I didn't like him for it. I was not impressed with Webber trying so hard for the race to be continued under the safety car for as long as possible either - and he was the driver I hoped would win the WDC. Again, his attitude was understandable, but not about to endear him to the fans..... we were all bored rigid and could see that the safety car should have left a good few laps earlier.

Odd I know, but I enjoyed the 'race' whilst it was red flagged! The funny comments of commentators, forum texters and a friend I was texting in the UK made me laugh out loud quite often. The yellow lorries clearing the track (travelling at about 1 mph) were a highlight - and friend pointed out the drivers should race them! Once the race got going again under the safety car it got boring compared to what we'd seen during the red flag conditions!

Anyway, the actual race was great - I particularly liked Sutil's many kamikaze overtaking attempts, but admit if he'd taken out a driver I liked I wouldn't have found it so funny....

Despite seriously annoying me on Sunday, I still hope Webber wins - he hasn't too many seasons left, Vettel needs to realise he is not 'god's gift' and Alonso's laugh on the radio after he won, scared the cr.p out of me! Talk about demoniacal!

Good post.

On the subject of Webber possibly winning the DC, i feel a bit torn. On the one hand i think it would be great as he's such a nice and genuine guy. But on the other hand, time and time again he exposes himself as being a pretty average driver that happens to have landed himself in the best drive of the season. A bit like last year i guess. Is there anything wrong with that? Probably not, but still, i think for some reason i would feel more comfortable with a stand-out talent winning. For me, from the current field, that means Vettel, Alonso, Kubica or Hamilton - Rosberg would be in with a shout too.

Still, if Webber does pull it off, i'll probably cease caring and just be happy for him.

[rixalex]

I have to admit that F1 took some stick and I was very surprised and glad to see him return, as the saying goes, "water off a ducks back"

I think F1 is a she mate, but i completely agree.

[MJo]

Well it's 44 pages of flack so far this season. Cant remember how long it went last season.

Maybe the reason there is only 4 to 5 active posters left...

[wackysleet]

Well it's 44 pages of flack so far this season. Cant remember how long it went last season.

Maybe the reason there is only 4 to 5 active posters left...

Glad to see YOU back MJo, has Kimi finished his rallying for the year? talk is that he wants back into F1, what have you heard?.

[MJo]

Yep it's been a while. Been busy with work and stuff and less online.

I reckon Kimi's looking for new drive for next year. RB not that keen to fund him fully which is understandable. My bet is he's going to do rally still next season but you never know. There was some rumors him going for Renault but he denied himself saying it's just them marketing and trying to get sponsors using his name. Not a wise thing to say if your looking for a drive

Anyways it's gonna be good finish to the season. And once i'm with Rix here and hope it's one of the RB's. Actually Webber would be good. He's worked his way up and earns to win it in my opinion. Vettel is fast but maybe better for him to wait a year more.

Edited October 25, 2010 by MJo

[wackysleet]

My apologies F1, I wrongfully assumed that you were male as it is unusual for a female to be as knowledgable about F1 as you.

David.

[soihok]

It was great to watch the Renault self destruct down the straight.

Great views of the engine internals showering from underneath into the tarmac exploding into showers of sparks and smoke, I used to race a bike ( X7 Suzuki ) that self destructed regularly but no where near as entertaining as that.

Thanks Red Bull!

[yermanee]

Your advice to me was "lay it to rest", but you yourself there have dredged up a discussion from months ago. Bit of irony there i would say. No?

Anyway, i understand why you would have taken offence to having your view dismissed just because of your user name, and i'm sorry it led to you leaving the discussion.

Here you go again, since that discussion was the last one I participated in, which other more recent would you like me to dredge up ?

Goodbye,

Yermanee

[rixalex]

Your advice to me was "lay it to rest", but you yourself there have dredged up a discussion from months ago. Bit of irony there i would say. No?

Anyway, i understand why you would have taken offence to having your view dismissed just because of your user name, and i'm sorry it led to you leaving the discussion.

Here you go again, since that discussion was the last one I participated in, which other more recent would you like me to dredge up ?

Goodbye,

Yermanee

Here i go again with what? You advised me to lay things to rest, and then went on to complain about a discussion that took place months ago. If you can't take your own advice, how do you expect others to?

Which other more recent discussion would i like you to dredge up? Whatever gave you the impression i wanted anything dredged up? I said that i was interested in hearing your view on the current situation in F1. I still am, but it would seem that the moment anybody says anything not to your liking, you disappear in a huff.

F1fanatic said it best: Don't give up on a forum just 'cos you get some flack! You were proven right and if you love F1, you must need to share your views after a race. Its what we all enjoy, whether we agree with the views expressed or not. I'm a HUGE Schumi fan so have received lots of flack from many people - who cares? Its all about enjoying the races and arguing your corner.

[Miiyai46]

I know that anything can happen in the last two races but I really want to share with all of you my opinion now......I cannot keep it for me any longer. Most of you are Ferrari and Alonso haters and you might not agree with my comments.........

Ferrari have been a 1 man team all season, there was absolutely no doubt that Massa is not in Alonso's "league" as far as ability is concerned! Ferrari should have finished 1-2 on the podium last weekend, but yet again Massa has an almost anonymous race!! All Ferrari fans (including me) expect that at his home race he will be able to finish p2 and help his team mate and team to do a step forward on the championship.

RBR managed to shoot themselves in both feet! RBR and Mclaren are insisting that both their drivers are allowed to race each other (mainly RBR)...and well it is an absolute business suicide by both teams (as Mclaren did show us in 2007)!! Ferrari concentrates on their own race and strategy, while RBR and Mclaren are stabbing each other in the back!!! Now Alonso is showing why most people regard him as the best driver in F1 today, I would really love to have seen Ron Dennis`s face as Fernando crossed the line last Sunday! How he must be kicking himself that he thought Hamilton would be a better bet than Fernando!! He must be so embarrassed now....

[rixalex]

I know that anything can happen in the last two races but I really want to share with all of you my opinion now......I cannot keep it for me any longer. Most of you are Ferrari and Alonso haters and you might not agree with my comments.........

Ferrari have been a 1 man team all season, there was absolutely no doubt that Massa is not in Alonso's "league" as far as ability is concerned! Ferrari should have finished 1-2 on the podium last weekend, but yet again Massa has an almost anonymous race!! All Ferrari fans (including me) expect that at his home race he will be able to finish p2 and help his team mate and team to do a step forward on the championship.

RBR managed to shoot themselves in both feet! RBR and Mclaren are insisting that both their drivers are allowed to race each other (mainly RBR)...and well it is an absolute business suicide by both teams (as Mclaren did show us in 2007)!! Ferrari concentrates on their own race and strategy, while RBR and Mclaren are stabbing each other in the back!!! Now Alonso is showing why most people regard him as the best driver in F1 today, I would really love to have seen Ron Dennis`s face as Fernando crossed the line last Sunday! How he must be kicking himself that he thought Hamilton would be a better bet than Fernando!! He must be so embarrassed now....

I think in your excitement you have rushed to some rather hasty conclusions. As far as this season is concerned, i wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a few more twists and turns yet. I don't deny that Alonso has a great chance, and if he wins no doubt Ferrari's strategy will be hailed as a masterstroke. If he doesn't, and they only manage third in the Constructors, there might be less hailing going on.

I also think you have been hasty in your conclusions regarding Alonso and Hamilton. Until they have both seen out their respective careers, i think it is premature to say who is the better or more successful. As things stand though, i think it would be fair to say that both have done well. Hamilton came within a hair's breath of winning the title in his debut season, and then went on to win it as the youngest ever in his second. He was admittedly driving a very good car, but credit has to be given for not only doing the job but doing it with so little experience at the top level. He also showed that he was a match for Alonso when driving the same car. To those who say he was given preferential treatment, i think they are simply wrong. Dennis paid lots of money to bring Alonso to the team and fully expected that given parity with Lewis, Alonso would establish himself as the faster driver and then the team would swing behind him as the season progressed. This never happened and is why things got so messy. Once Alonso and the team had fallen out, i don't question that Lewis was then given preferential treatment.

That's the blotted part of Alonso's copybook. The rest makes impressive reading. His spells at Benetton and at Ferrari have been very good. In both cases he hasn't had the strongest car but he has managed to squeeze extra performance out of the car. At Benetton it took him to two titles. I would be very surprised if he doesn't add to his tally at Ferrari - if not this year, then another.

Just out of interest Miiyai, may i ask why it is that you support Ferrari? In all my years of following F1 i have seen some driving that has inspired me to follow certain drivers, but the business of following a certain team, whatever that team may be, has alway kind of puzzled me.

[Miiyai46]

I know that anything can happen in the last two races but I really want to share with all of you my opinion now......I cannot keep it for me any longer. Most of you are Ferrari and Alonso haters and you might not agree with my comments.........

Ferrari have been a 1 man team all season, there was absolutely no doubt that Massa is not in Alonso's "league" as far as ability is concerned! Ferrari should have finished 1-2 on the podium last weekend, but yet again Massa has an almost anonymous race!! All Ferrari fans (including me) expect that at his home race he will be able to finish p2 and help his team mate and team to do a step forward on the championship.

RBR managed to shoot themselves in both feet! RBR and Mclaren are insisting that both their drivers are allowed to race each other (mainly RBR)...and well it is an absolute business suicide by both teams (as Mclaren did show us in 2007)!! Ferrari concentrates on their own race and strategy, while RBR and Mclaren are stabbing each other in the back!!! Now Alonso is showing why most people regard him as the best driver in F1 today, I would really love to have seen Ron Dennis`s face as Fernando crossed the line last Sunday! How he must be kicking himself that he thought Hamilton would be a better bet than Fernando!! He must be so embarrassed now....

I think in your excitement you have rushed to some rather hasty conclusions. As far as this season is concerned, i wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a few more twists and turns yet. I don't deny that Alonso has a great chance, and if he wins no doubt Ferrari's strategy will be hailed as a masterstroke. If he doesn't, and they only manage third in the Constructors, there might be less hailing going on.

I also think you have been hasty in your conclusions regarding Alonso and Hamilton. Until they have both seen out their respective careers, i think it is premature to say who is the better or more successful. As things stand though, i think it would be fair to say that both have done well. Hamilton came within a hair's breath of winning the title in his debut season, and then went on to win it as the youngest ever in his second. He was admittedly driving a very good car, but credit has to be given for not only doing the job but doing it with so little experience at the top level. He also showed that he was a match for Alonso when driving the same car. To those who say he was given preferential treatment, i think they are simply wrong. Dennis paid lots of money to bring Alonso to the team and fully expected that given parity with Lewis, Alonso would establish himself as the faster driver and then the team would swing behind him as the season progressed. This never happened and is why things got so messy. Once Alonso and the team had fallen out, i don't question that Lewis was then given preferential treatment.

That's the blotted part of Alonso's copybook. The rest makes impressive reading. His spells at Benetton and at Ferrari have been very good. In both cases he hasn't had the strongest car but he has managed to squeeze extra performance out of the car. At Benetton it took him to two titles. I would be very surprised if he doesn't add to his tally at Ferrari - if not this year, then another.

Just out of interest Miiyai, may i ask why it is that you support Ferrari? In all my years of following F1 i have seen some driving that has inspired me to follow certain drivers, but the business of following a certain team, whatever that team may be, has alway kind of puzzled me.

thanks for your post. You are right when you said that my excitement have rushed my opinion on this year championship but as I already said before.....I know that anything can happen in the last two races!!!

Regarding what happened in 2007, I still cannot understand how the best team and one of the most venerable team director in the F1 history blew the whole season trying to support a rookie against a 2-time WC whom was paid lots of money but also brought important sponsors to the Mclaren team!

Why I support Ferrari? I think that most of the Italians supports Ferrari (including me.... I'm half Italian/half Spanish) and our feeling towards Ferrari is not easy to explain. Ferrari has always been there while the drivers come and go, Ferrari make us Italians to be proud of our country! Another reason might be that Italy has not had a decent driver in the F1 championship since a very long time.

Cheers

[dominique355]

I know that anything can happen in the last two races but I really want to share with all of you my opinion now......I cannot keep it for me any longer. Most of you are Ferrari and Alonso haters and you might not agree with my comments.........

Ferrari have been a 1 man team all season, there was absolutely no doubt that Massa is not in Alonso's "league" as far as ability is concerned! Ferrari should have finished 1-2 on the podium last weekend, but yet again Massa has an almost anonymous race!! All Ferrari fans (including me) expect that at his home race he will be able to finish p2 and help his team mate and team to do a step forward on the championship.

RBR managed to shoot themselves in both feet! RBR and Mclaren are insisting that both their drivers are allowed to race each other (mainly RBR)...and well it is an absolute business suicide by both teams (as Mclaren did show us in 2007)!! Ferrari concentrates on their own race and strategy, while RBR and Mclaren are stabbing each other in the back!!! Now Alonso is showing why most people regard him as the best driver in F1 today, I would really love to have seen Ron Dennis`s face as Fernando crossed the line last Sunday! How he must be kicking himself that he thought Hamilton would be a better bet than Fernando!! He must be so embarrassed now....

I think in your excitement you have rushed to some rather hasty conclusions. As far as this season is concerned, i wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a few more twists and turns yet. I don't deny that Alonso has a great chance, and if he wins no doubt Ferrari's strategy will be hailed as a masterstroke. If he doesn't, and they only manage third in the Constructors, there might be less hailing going on.

I also think you have been hasty in your conclusions regarding Alonso and Hamilton. Until they have both seen out their respective careers, i think it is premature to say who is the better or more successful. As things stand though, i think it would be fair to say that both have done well. Hamilton came within a hair's breath of winning the title in his debut season, and then went on to win it as the youngest ever in his second. He was admittedly driving a very good car, but credit has to be given for not only doing the job but doing it with so little experience at the top level. He also showed that he was a match for Alonso when driving the same car. To those who say he was given preferential treatment, i think they are simply wrong. Dennis paid lots of money to bring Alonso to the team and fully expected that given parity with Lewis, Alonso would establish himself as the faster driver and then the team would swing behind him as the season progressed. This never happened and is why things got so messy. Once Alonso and the team had fallen out, i don't question that Lewis was then given preferential treatment.

That's the blotted part of Alonso's copybook. The rest makes impressive reading. His spells at Benetton and at Ferrari have been very good. In both cases he hasn't had the strongest car but he has managed to squeeze extra performance out of the car. At Benetton it took him to two titles. I would be very surprised if he doesn't add to his tally at Ferrari - if not this year, then another.

Just out of interest Miiyai, may i ask why it is that you support Ferrari? In all my years of following F1 i have seen some driving that has inspired me to follow certain drivers, but the business of following a certain team, whatever that team may be, has alway kind of puzzled me.

May I reply as a long-term Ferrari fan?

Actually, I started as a Lotus fan, back when Jim Clark was racing (that was before I even had my driver's license), but gradually I shifted over to the team from Maranello. Perhaps it has to do with my first visit in the factory in Maranello in (oh gee, when was that?) 19...71 I think. I was able to see the racing department and the development of the famous Bergspyder 212 (Lucca di Montezemolo was race director, Peter Schetty the driver. Anyone remembers?).

Later I was able to buy a (second hand) Lamborghini and followed the fighting bull for some time until Chrysler took over and kicked me out of the factory. I was with a friend and we had lunch together that day and then went from Sant' Agata to Maranello, where we were greeted like kings. Shortly after I acquired my first Ferrari (365 GTC/4) and then went on with the Cavallino. Many models followed. Yeah, I sold them all before I moved to Thailand.

It's hard to explain what makes me be such an enthusiast for Ferrari. Perhaps the personal friendship with people there, perhaps the fantastic road cars they build, perhaps the 100% commitment to racing, no matter how good they are in a season, never give up, but never become high-nose, even when they are invincible (at least with me).

When I went to the F1 race in Sepang, a few years ago, I was walking down the pit lane, and of course went to see who is at Ferrari. I saw an old friend there and called him. And it was like we had never separated.

Ferrari, well they are probably not better than other teams and had to learn how to run a modern Formula 1 team from Ron Dennis, but they are full of passion, human passion. And they love cars, all who work there. Just visit the factory once and talk to - say - the worker at the alu casting. He is a "Tiffoso"!

There are many legends around Ferrari, no wonder after so many years in the business. My wish is to drive a Formula 1 car, but I guess that will remain a wish.

[rixalex]

Just out of interest Miiyai, may i ask why it is that you support Ferrari? In all my years of following F1 i have seen some driving that has inspired me to follow certain drivers, but the business of following a certain team, whatever that team may be, has alway kind of puzzled me.

May I reply as a long-term Ferrari fan?

Actually, I started as a Lotus fan, back when Jim Clark was racing (that was before I even had my driver's license), but gradually I shifted over to the team from Maranello. Perhaps it has to do with my first visit in the factory in Maranello in (oh gee, when was that?) 19...71 I think. I was able to see the racing department and the development of the famous Bergspyder 212 (Lucca di Montezemolo was race director, Peter Schetty the driver. Anyone remembers?).

Later I was able to buy a (second hand) Lamborghini and followed the fighting bull for some time until Chrysler took over and kicked me out of the factory. I was with a friend and we had lunch together that day and then went from Sant' Agata to Maranello, where we were greeted like kings. Shortly after I acquired my first Ferrari (365 GTC/4) and then went on with the Cavallino. Many models followed. Yeah, I sold them all before I moved to Thailand.

It's hard to explain what makes me be such an enthusiast for Ferrari. Perhaps the personal friendship with people there, perhaps the fantastic road cars they build, perhaps the 100% commitment to racing, no matter how good they are in a season, never give up, but never become high-nose, even when they are invincible (at least with me).

When I went to the F1 race in Sepang, a few years ago, I was walking down the pit lane, and of course went to see who is at Ferrari. I saw an old friend there and called him. And it was like we had never separated.

Ferrari, well they are probably not better than other teams and had to learn how to run a modern Formula 1 team from Ron Dennis, but they are full of passion, human passion. And they love cars, all who work there. Just visit the factory once and talk to - say - the worker at the alu casting. He is a "Tiffoso"!

There are many legends around Ferrari, no wonder after so many years in the business. My wish is to drive a Formula 1 car, but I guess that will remain a wish.

As an F1 fan who has never felt any allegiance to any particular team, it's an interesting subject and i appreciate your considered reply.

If any of the other contributors to this thread also are supporters of teams, i'd be equally interested in hearing the background stories.

Cheers.

[dominique355]

That's interesting, Rixalex, because I feel the other way round.

I don't care who sits in the Ferrari cockpit, as long as he wins... hahaha

[rixalex]

Regarding what happened in 2007, I still cannot understand how the best team and one of the most venerable team director in the F1 history blew the whole season trying to support a rookie against a 2-time WC whom was paid lots of money but also brought important sponsors to the Mclaren team!

This is where i think our disagreement lies. I think that at the start of the 2007 season, Dennis and for that matter, the whole team, were supporting both drivers equally, but were expecting Alonso to dominate and show the way for the rookie, who would spend his first couple of years learning from the master. The apple cart got knocked over when right from the first race, Hamilton showed that he had the pace to match the WC.

I think the support only swung Hamilton's way when Alonso's relationship with the team really broke down irrevocably and it became clear that he would leave the team at the end of the season. Hamilton had already shown by then that given the same equipment, he could match Alonso in pretty much every department, save perhaps for a bit of tactical nous.

Anyone making the claim that Alonso is better than Hamilton has to find a way of explaining why he wasn't faster than him when he was in the same car - a way of explaining it that is more plausible than Dennis paying all that money for a WC to join the team, to then treat him as a number two.

[F1fanatic]

Regarding what happened in 2007, I still cannot understand how the best team and one of the most venerable team director in the F1 history blew the whole season trying to support a rookie against a 2-time WC whom was paid lots of money but also brought important sponsors to the Mclaren team!

This is where i think our disagreement lies. I think that at the start of the 2007 season, Dennis and for that matter, the whole team, were supporting both drivers equally, but were expecting Alonso to dominate and show the way for the rookie, who would spend his first couple of years learning from the master. The apple cart got knocked over when right from the first race, Hamilton showed that he had the pace to match the WC.

I think the support only swung Hamilton's way when Alonso's relationship with the team really broke down irrevocably and it became clear that he would leave the team at the end of the season. Hamilton had already shown by then that given the same equipment, he could match Alonso in pretty much every department, save perhaps for a bit of tactical nous.

Anyone making the claim that Alonso is better than Hamilton has to find a way of explaining why he wasn't faster than him when he was in the same car - a way of explaining it that is more plausible than Dennis paying all that money for a WC to join the team, to then treat him as a number two.

I agree as IMO Alonso self-destructed when he realised that a) his team mate was keeping up with him and the team weren't treating him as a clear 'number 1'.

After Spygate etc. the team fully supported Hamilton.

However, I suspect that Alonso had less time in the car than Hamilton when joining the team (and a less 'personal' relationship with Ron Dennis) and, being used to an entirely different car was unable to adjust quickly enough - hence the self-destruct mode....

Alonso tends to throw his toys out of the pram when anybody does anything he believes 'unfair' or unsupporting - and not treating him (the current WDC) as 'number 1' would have seemed to him as both unfair and unsupporting. I have no doubt he moved to Mclaren believing he would be the clear number one in the team.

BOTH drivers are at the top of the tree, but both have their faults.

[rixalex]

I agree as IMO Alonso self-destructed when he realised that a) his team mate was keeping up with him and the team weren't treating him as a clear 'number 1'.

After Spygate etc. the team fully supported Hamilton.

However, I suspect that Alonso had less time in the car than Hamilton when joining the team (and a less 'personal' relationship with Ron Dennis) and, being used to an entirely different car was unable to adjust quickly enough - hence the self-destruct mode....

Alonso tends to throw his toys out of the pram when anybody does anything he believes 'unfair' or unsupporting - and not treating him (the current WDC) as 'number 1' would have seemed to him as both unfair and unsupporting. I have no doubt he moved to Mclaren believing he would be the clear number one in the team.

BOTH drivers are at the top of the tree, but both have their faults.

Can't really disagree with any of that, although i would say that as a rookie coming into his first year of the sport, personal relationship with the team manager or not, Lewis had an awful lot of adjusting to do himself. Did Alonso have any more adjustments to make than him? I'm not so sure. He was arriving as double world champ with all the experience that entails, and the 2007 McLaren was as we know was a pretty sweet car.

Certainly shouldn't have been any harder for Alonso than the job of adjusting he has had to do this year in the 2010 Ferrari. Difference is this year at Ferrari he has had the luxury of time afforded by not having a team mate breathing down his neck.

i would take you up on your comments about Alonso having a hard job adjusting to the McLaren. I'm not sure it should have been that hard. The 2007 McLaren was a very good car, and Alonso was arriving as a WC with all the experience that entails. Yes Hamilton had already been at the team some time, but he hadn't been at the team as an F1 driver - there's a big difference. And unlike Alonso, it was his first ever year in the sport. Personal relationship with the team manager or not, there still required a lot of adjusting for him to getting to grips with not only racing an F1 car, but dealing with the pressures of being an F1 driver.

This season he has arrived at a new team and been driving a new car - a new car that i don't imagine has been any easier adjusting to than the 2007 McLaren. And yet straight from the get-go he has had the pace of his team mate.

, and i'm even less sure that it was any harder than the job HamiltThis year he has

hink you may be being just a little charitable in your comments about Alonso not having sufficient time to adjust to the McLaren. Hamilton might have been with the team longer, but it wasn't as if he had a season in F1 behind him. Driving an F1 car was all very new to him and he had as much adjusting to do, if not more than Alonso.

[b19bry]

It's not scientific this business of forming an opinion you know. We all do it, and in most cases, there's no way to prove these things. I think Alonso was sulking, you don't. You think my view must be biased because i like Hamilton. OK, fine. Then i think your view must be biased because you dislike him. Do you see how this line of discussion takes us round in circles?

I agree there's nothing scientific in the way you arrived at your opinions on Alonso, just emotions and a few questionable 'facts'.

I don't dislike Hamilton, I don't even know the guy. It's just I don't care for his 'driving style' and for similar reasons I didn't admire Senna or Schumacher who had a very similar way of driving. That doesn't, by the way, make me an Alonso fan which seems to be your deduction and your repeated accusation.

You'd have to accept that part of the reason this goes round in circles is that you keep on repeating yourself, as in the questionable 'facts' I refer to above and seen again in your last few posts

[b19bry]

Driving an F1 car was all very new to him and he had as much adjusting to do, if not more than Alonso.

Simply not true. Hamilton already many thousands of miles experience in the very car he went on to drive in 2007 before Alonso even arrived at the team.

Another thing that's conveniently ignored here is that Alonso, and Raikkonen (who had a similar way of driving) both struggled to adapt their driving styles to the new Bridgestone tyres for 2007. This took both of them about half a season.

[b19bry]

Alonso also drove very well. And his comments in the post race interview i think were very intelligent. He's the guy with the right balance of maturity and experience, and that could be what wins him the title. My only concern for him would be the fact that he is on a streak of not only good driving but of having no disasters befall him - unlike some of the other drivers over the last few races. He almost got tagged by Webber but narrowly avoided it. Luck has to run out sometime. Just ask Vettel.

As for Webber, i really felt that his attitude was all wrong, and quite possibly led to his error. He had no confidence and really didn't want to go racing. Too much caution can be a negative. True champions i think need a more up and at 'em, fearless attitude

Last two races should be fun. My money is on Vettel or Alonso now. Hope Vettel prevails - failing of course a fightback from Lewis.

Alonso's undoubtedly had a good run but I think his biggest concern, (particularly after the last race and his early season engine failures) will be the mileage on his engines and whether they will hold out in the heat of the last two races.

As for Webber I was gutted when he spun out, he really only needed to finish well to keep up the pressure. Instead the pressure seemed to get to him. I still hope he can pull it off though.

[rixalex]

I agree as IMO Alonso self-destructed when he realised that a) his team mate was keeping up with him and the team weren't treating him as a clear 'number 1'.

After Spygate etc. the team fully supported Hamilton.

However, I suspect that Alonso had less time in the car than Hamilton when joining the team (and a less 'personal' relationship with Ron Dennis) and, being used to an entirely different car was unable to adjust quickly enough - hence the self-destruct mode....

Alonso tends to throw his toys out of the pram when anybody does anything he believes 'unfair' or unsupporting - and not treating him (the current WDC) as 'number 1' would have seemed to him as both unfair and unsupporting. I have no doubt he moved to Mclaren believing he would be the clear number one in the team.

BOTH drivers are at the top of the tree, but both have their faults.

Can't <snipped....

....>if not more than Alonso.

Apologies for the above - please scratch. Was having trouble replying yesterday and somehow an amalgamation of different points seems to have occurred. This is a more coherent version of what i was trying to say

Can't really disagree with any of that, although i would say that as a rookie coming into his first year of the sport, personal relationship with the team manager or not, Lewis had an awful lot of adjusting to do himself. Did Alonso have any more adjustments to make than him? I'm not so sure. He was arriving as double world champ with all the experience that entails, and the 2007 McLaren was as we know was a pretty sweet car.

Certainly shouldn't have been any harder for Alonso than the job of adjusting he has had to do this year in the 2010 Ferrari. Difference is this year at Ferrari he has had the luxury of time afforded by not having a team mate breathing down his neck.

[rixalex]

Driving an F1 car was all very new to him and he had as much adjusting to do, if not more than Alonso.

Simply not true. Hamilton already many thousands of miles experience in the very car he went on to drive in 2007 before Alonso even arrived at the team.

Racing in F1 since 2001 - a total of six seasons behind the wheel - including 2 titles, albeit it in different cars, versus, never faced in F1 before but completed a few months of testing in the car.

Both had adjustments to make. Arguing that Alonso had more than Hamilton to me sells the man a little short.

[rixalex]

I agree there's nothing scientific in the way you arrived at your opinions on Alonso, just emotions and a few questionable 'facts'.

Back to simply dismissing rather than debating. I made some points. You disagree with them. Explain why. All you are doing now is saying "you are wrong". This is what is taking us round in circles.

I don't dislike Hamilton, I don't even know the guy. It's just I don't care for his 'driving style' and for similar reasons I didn't admire Senna or Schumacher who had a very similar way of driving.

You know him well enough to call him a petulant prat, and petulant prats aren't usually people in life we have fondness for, are they?

That doesn't, by the way, make me an Alonso fan which seems to be your deduction and your repeated accusation.

I think Hamilton's petulance and Alonso's sulking are both pretty well known characteristics of those men that have been the subject of debate in a wide variety of medias, and not just British. The fact that you happy and willing to acknowledge the negative side in Hamilton, that even i, as a fan, concede exists, but then suddenly in the case of Alonso you become defensive, demanding there be definitive proof (perhaps a signed bit of paper from a shrink confirming occasional bouts of morose, demanding, self-absorbed behaviour in the patient?), does suggest to me a degree of favourtism going on there. Only you know how much. I can understand why in such debates it makes life easier to put yourself across as being a fence-sitter.

And by the way, F1fanatic alluded to exactly the same point concerning Alonso in her "throwing toys out of the pram" comment... and she is a Schumacher fan. You discredit this opinion when i express it, as simply being the product of bias. I'd like to know how you explain away her feelings? Is she too biased and unable to comment objectively?

[F1fanatic]

Up until Germany(?) I thought Alonso was the 'most complete' driver in F1 at the moment, although less 'complete' when faced with things not going his way.

Hearing more of the conversations between pit crew and driver this season has only confirmed my beliefs. The race in Germany (?) was the last straw - with Alonso demanding to get past Massa, not on merit - just because he was unable to do it on his own..... No wonder Massa was so angry!

I had no time for Hamilton either for various reasons (braking too late - too often, comments about 'monkeys at the back of the field' etc. etc.). 2009 showed that in an average car he was unable to perform better than the car. It was only later in the season when the car improved that his results improved.

However, having said this - Hamilton is growing on me over the last few races. He seems to have realised that his incredible results in 2007/8 were down to the car as much as him (2009 I think brought him back down to earth with a bump!) and, he is showing other F1 drivers more respect.

Only now (to me) is he showing himself to be living up to his 'legend'. He has matured enough to drive very well, without demanding that he be let past his team mate for no good reason.

As Hamilton goes up in my eyes, Alonso goes down.....

Edited October 28, 2010 by F1fanatic

[wackysleet]

Up until Germany(?) I thought Alonso was the 'most complete' driver in F1 at the moment, although less 'complete' when faced with things not going his way.

Hearing more of the conversations between pit crew and driver this season has only confirmed my beliefs. The race in Germany (?) was the last straw - with Alonso demanding to get past Massa, not on merit - just because he was unable to do it on his own..... No wonder Massa was so angry!

I had no time for Hamilton either for various reasons (braking too late - too often, comments about 'monkeys at the back of the field' etc. etc.). 2009 showed that in an average car he was unable to perform better than the car. It was only later in the season when the car improved that his results improved.

However, having said this - Hamilton is growing on me over the last few races. He seems to have realised that his incredible results in 2007/8 were down to the car as much as him (2009 I think brought him back down to earth with a bump!) and, he is showing other F1 drivers more respect.

Only now (to me) is he showing himself to be living up to his 'legend'. He has matured enough to drive very well, without demanding that he be let past his team mate for no good reason.

As Hamilton goes up in my eyes, Alonso goes down.....

I will throw my hat into the ring, I do not like Lewis one little bit, apart from the instances you have mentioned and others have overlooked, he has frequently voiced his opinions in a way that gives the impression that he thinks he is Mclaren and over the radio.

Lewis has been quoted as saying that he urged Mclaren to bring Jenson into the team and in my opinion that was simply because he thought he was a better driver but look at this season, Jenson has had two DNFs neither of his making and which on both occassions a good likelyhood of getting good points, on the other hand Lewis has had several DNFs as well with several being entirely of his own doing and the points gap would have been a lot closer.

Another point you made about Lewis, what was the recent instance when he called up on the radio as Jenson made a move on him and Jenson was advised to conserve his fuel, I am only reiterating on this as it has been quoted several times.

Lewis stated at the break between last years racing and the start of this year that he was going to concentrate on trying to get friendlier with his fellow drivers as he was not sure why he had no friends among them {this is as close to the quote as I can remember and it is not verbatim} .

You are absolutely right when you say Lewis has performed well when he has been in the top car and in my previous posts I have said that most, but not all, of the experienced drivers could win the WDC given the best car, example Jenson and possibly Mark, two drivers that in all their years have never exactly set the sport alive until both found themselves in top cars.

I make no excuses about being an ardent Alonso fan having met him on several occassions along with numerous other drivers and I take with a pinch of salt all of the remarks about him sulking if he doesn't get his own way, during conversations with him he does not come across as being so egotistical as some I could mention, with regards his driving skills I do not see anyone holding a candle to him with the possible exception of Michael Shumacher and I am sure you know what I think of his character and lack of sportsmanship, which is STILL going on, but he and Alonso have both won the WDC in what was certainly not the best car on the grid.

[F1fanatic]

Up until Germany(?) I thought Alonso was the 'most complete' driver in F1 at the moment, although less 'complete' when faced with things not going his way.

Hearing more of the conversations between pit crew and driver this season has only confirmed my beliefs. The race in Germany (?) was the last straw - with Alonso demanding to get past Massa, not on merit - just because he was unable to do it on his own..... No wonder Massa was so angry!

I had no time for Hamilton either for various reasons (braking too late - too often, comments about 'monkeys at the back of the field' etc. etc.). 2009 showed that in an average car he was unable to perform better than the car. It was only later in the season when the car improved that his results improved.

However, having said this - Hamilton is growing on me over the last few races. He seems to have realised that his incredible results in 2007/8 were down to the car as much as him (2009 I think brought him back down to earth with a bump!) and, he is showing other F1 drivers more respect.

Only now (to me) is he showing himself to be living up to his 'legend'. He has matured enough to drive very well, without demanding that he be let past his team mate for no good reason.

As Hamilton goes up in my eyes, Alonso goes down.....

I will throw my hat into the ring, I do not like Lewis one little bit, apart from the instances you have mentioned and others have overlooked, he has frequently voiced his opinions in a way that gives the impression that he thinks he is Mclaren and over the radio.

Lewis has been quoted as saying that he urged Mclaren to bring Jenson into the team and in my opinion that was simply because he thought he was a better driver but look at this season, Jenson has had two DNFs neither of his making and which on both occassions a good likelyhood of getting good points, on the other hand Lewis has had several DNFs as well with several being entirely of his own doing and the points gap would have been a lot closer.

Another point you made about Lewis, what was the recent instance when he called up on the radio as Jenson made a move on him and Jenson was advised to conserve his fuel, I am only reiterating on this as it has been quoted several times.

Lewis stated at the break between last years racing and the start of this year that he was going to concentrate on trying to get friendlier with his fellow drivers as he was not sure why he had no friends among them {this is as close to the quote as I can remember and it is not verbatim} .

You are absolutely right when you say Lewis has performed well when he has been in the top car and in my previous posts I have said that most, but not all, of the experienced drivers could win the WDC given the best car, example Jenson and possibly Mark, two drivers that in all their years have never exactly set the sport alive until both found themselves in top cars.

I make no excuses about being an ardent Alonso fan having met him on several occassions along with numerous other drivers and I take with a pinch of salt all of the remarks about him sulking if he doesn't get his own way, during conversations with him he does not come across as being so egotistical as some I could mention, with regards his driving skills I do not see anyone holding a candle to him with the possible exception of Michael Shumacher and I am sure you know what I think of his character and lack of sportsmanship, which is STILL going on, but he and Alonso have both won the WDC in what was certainly not the best car on the grid.

Hear what you're saying, but I'm sure most drivers are nice people 'off track' - they behave differently on-track - Schumi is/was the prime example of this.

Jenson being told to 'conserve his fuel' when he was behind Hamilton was a different situation (if we're talking about the same race). Jenson was behind (and faster) but not demanding to be let past Hamilton. He tried to pass Hamilton but realising that Hamilton was not going to give up the place easily, gave up rather than cause an accident. In contrast, Alonso was behind and no faster, but demanding to be let past - which is why Massa was angry enough to make it obvious when he received team orders to let Alonso get in front.

In 2005 Alonso had the best car. In 2006 Alonso had the best car at the beginning of the season, but Ferrari had the better car at the end of the season. Alonso won the WDC in 2006 fair and square - it was close, but at the end of the day he deserved it as Schumi would have done if he'd won the WDC. My opinion obviously.

[b19bry]

Driving an F1 car was all very new to him and he had as much adjusting to do, if not more than Alonso.

Simply not true. Hamilton already many thousands of miles experience in the very car he went on to drive in 2007 before Alonso even arrived at the team.

Racing in F1 since 2001 - a total of six seasons behind the wheel - including 2 titles, albeit it in different cars, versus, never faced in F1 before but completed a few months of testing in the car.

Both had adjustments to make. Arguing that Alonso had more than Hamilton to me sells the man a little short.

I'm just pointing out that what you'd said about F1 being new to Hamilton was incorrect. In fact he first tested a Mclaren F1 car as far back as 2004 and had been instrumental as a test driver in the development of the 2007 car. The only acclimatisation he needed was to race in F1.

You might be right in suggesting that with his experience Alonso should have been quicker from the 'get go' but both he and Raikkonen struggled with the new Bridgestone tyres early in 2007.

[b19bry]

I agree there's nothing scientific in the way you arrived at your opinions on Alonso, just emotions and a few questionable 'facts'.

Back to simply dismissing rather than debating. I made some points. You disagree with them. Explain why. All you are doing now is saying "you are wrong". This is what is taking us round in circles.

I'm not even saying you're wrong, I already said I don't know the guy so whether he sulks or not I don't really know.

I also don't know for sure what his role in 'Spygate' was but then neither do you yet you present your interpretation as the 'facts'.

I'm happy to debate his driving skills.