Abhisit Is The Legitimate Thai Prime Minister

[Ulysses G.]

[The PPP is to blame that the airport was occupated.

That is a good one!

[fxe1200]

[The PPP is to blame that the airport was occupated.

That is a good one!

....get yourself some glasses, if you can only read bold letters!

[anotherpeter]

Do not forget, that the PPP did not leave the government after the verdict of the EC was published in May. It needed peaceful demonstrations all through the summer, with no results. Finally with the occupation of the airport the PPP was forced to go. The PPP is to blame that the airport was occupated. If they would have gone freely in May, nobody would have been needed to demonstrate or to orchestrate the occupation of the airport to mount enough pressure on this corrupt PPP-government or the PPP-party.

I don't think that is correct.

Samak was banned around October because of the cooking show.

The siege of the airport went for 9 days and ended in December after the Constitutional Court disbanded the PPP.

EDIT: And I'll go with UG on his comment. The PAD are the only ones to blame for occupying the airport.

Edited March 15, 2010 by anotherpeter

[Moonrakers]

Do not forget, that the PPP did not leave the government after the verdict of the EC was published in May. It needed peaceful demonstrations all through the summer, with no results. Finally with the occupation of the airport the PPP was forced to go. The PPP is to blame that the airport was occupated. If they would have gone freely in May, nobody would have been needed to demonstrate or to orchestrate the occupation of the airport to mount enough pressure on this corrupt PPP-government or the PPP-party.

I don't think that is correct.

Samak was banned around October because of the cooking show.

The siege of the airport went for 9 days and ended in December after the Constitutional Court disbanded the PPP.

EDIT: And I'll go with UG on his comment. The PAD are the only ones to blame for occupying the airport.

Yep.

And people making such ridiculous claims leads to statements from others that of you are anti-Thaksin then you must be pro-yellow which is simply not the case.

[Topprofile]

In my country we have a about 7 parties fighting for a place in government. There is one very small party that always is in between the 2 big blocks and every election they will go with the side that gives them what they want.. Sure people are complaining, but there are no new elections because of that... People know they have to wait for another 4 years and vote for their "side" instead to make sure...

[anotherpeter]

Just some more information about politicians switching parties and parties changing their support for coalitions ... brought to you by ballpoint:

Indeed, Thaksin himself did it back in 1996. He, along with 4 other PDP MP's, pulled out of the Banharn government, resigning his position as Deputy PM in charge of Bangkok traffic, yet kept their seats as MP's.

[brianb1944]

Excellent account -- thanks so much. Democracy at work -- at least, the form of it that Thailand's constitution follows (no direct "election" of the Prime Minister as in the US).

There was a lack of a certain decree to allow the acceptance of that election in 2006, as well, if I recall correctly.

UNRELATED: What has happened to the "Thaivisa Bangkok Red-shirt Rally-Live Updates"?

They have gone silent. Hard to believe that there is nothing to report! [at 5.40 PM on Sunday of the 'big day']

I second that, comprehensive yet as succinct as was possible, it certainly put all the pieces that have been floating around in my brain into context, and seems to be irrefutable by fact or logic. Though hysterical diatribe is frequently used to refute such excellent statements.

[anotherpeter]

OK ... slightly off topic I know ... but the funniest (and scarily true) post I have read in a while. (Thaksin's PR prowess)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-shirts-S...01#entry3418101

[bendejo]

He was born in Kenya, and is a Muslim and a communist and a socialist.

Oh, wait, I think I mean someone else....

Edited March 15, 2010 by bendejo

[anotherpeter]

He was born in Kenya, and is a Muslim and a communist and a socialist.

Oh, wait, I think I mean someone else....

Yes ... That was Obama ... A good example of how much some people believe what they are told without evidence.

[PeaceBlondie]

The AOT closed the airport, after the Thaksin government did not evict them. Thaksin's fault.

[Ulysses G.]

How about the earthquake in Haiti?

[jayjayjayjay]

^ Abhisit lacks a moral mandate to govern the country. That's why they are protesting. He should call an election now.

Exactly, if a spade was called a spade in Thailand, the Democrates would have been dissolved by now clearing the way for an election. If the cycle continued for the next 50 years then maybe, just maybe the electorate might get an idea that the wealthier elite controlling the Election Commission are not going to accept any form of vote buying. In that case, after generations of it being accepted country-wide might just sink in!

Abhisit lacks the moral mandate to govern the country BECAUSE all other competing parties big enough to form a government were removed by the judicial process. So what do we have. We have a Judical Government, NOT a government of the people.

If Consitution writers had any sense, they would allow for re-election if any more than 20% of MP votes in Parliament were removed by the Election Commission. Therefor allowing for the electorate to still have a say in governance. The people who voted for PPP do not have a say, that is why they are so so so so so so very pissed off............ huMANnatURE

You seem to have a real problem accepting the decrees of Thai courts. Deadbeat mentality. Anyhow the judicial process IS in keeping with the Thai constitution, just as it was in America when the court ended that electoral stalemate. Laws, rules, statutes. process, that's what a government is.

Deadbeats hit children, and that could become very problematic! You have missed out a point here! Let's see what your statement says:

Laws, rules, Statues, Coup detat, process, that's what a government is! For which is calling a spade a spade in Thailand. DB

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The AOT closed the airport, after the Thaksin government did not evict them. Thaksin's fault.

Can you please check facts.. Thaksin was long disposed in coup and out of the country when the airport siege happened.

The then government TRIED to get the police/military to evict them, but they did not obey that order, because they take orders elsewhere, and not from any democratically elected government. In any other country that's be a court martial, when disobeying orders.

And then finally it's not the protesters fault for blocking access to the airport? You seriously believe that? Even the yellowest radicals on this forum don't try that one.

EDIT: (Or were you joking... dam_n, it worked in that case. Sorry for the rant if this was just irony, it's hard to tell sometimes these days. )

Edited March 16, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[anotherpeter]

The AOT closed the airport, after the Thaksin government did not evict them. Thaksin's fault.

That should actually be "Thaksin's puppet government".

After the government house protests went bad for the government and police, the government didn't have the support of the police to remove them by force.

They didn't know how to handle the protests, so they didn't handle them at all.

It's interesting that some of the red rhetoric has been about "If the government can't handle a million protestors, then they should step down".

EDIT: But it was still the PAD's fault.

Edited March 16, 2010 by anotherpeter

[tracymeaw]

I feel the OP's explanation makes it even more obvious why Abhisit lacks credibility and why people have a problem with it. The explanation sounds as credible as a used car salesman.

When you asked if you were missing anything, I would say yes... you missed the part where you were trying to paint a picture of a credible democratic process.

Most international papers today point out the fact that the current PM lacks credibility... just mentioned that fact again on Channel News Asia 5 minutes ago. Check BBC, New York times, Routers,etc. Get away from the biased catfish-rappers like The Nation and Bangkok Times and maybe your eyes will be opened. Censorship and lack of freedom of speech (also not true democracy imo) are commonplace in Thailand. So take the time to examine some news outside of Thailand… unless of course you’re blocked. An unbiased view is real news; otherwise it’s just another opinion.

Fact is, if Abhisist agreed to elections today he would lose... not hard to figure out why he refuses. How many of the Yellow Shirt advocates actually believe he would win? Speak up!! The only argument I hear is he would lose because of vote buying. If so, then couldn’t vote buying happen next year too? What then?

What will happen when there is finally a real election and/if someone the elites dislikes gets elected? Sure would be embarrassing to stage a coup and repeat the sad process the OP has clearly pointed out. If that chain of events was actually credible, then there wouldn’t be so many post trying to justify it, it would stand on its own merits. You don't like it? No problem… blame vote buying, stage another coup..repeat every 4 years.

The cycle will continue unless something changes. At least the Red Shirts are trying to make a change...

If the people elect someone you don’t like (and you actually voted), then at least respect the process and hope your choice wins next election. Respect the fact that the elected leader is the people’s choice. That’s real democracy and that’s what needs to change. And that surely isn’t what the people got with Abhisit.

[fxe1200]

Do not forget, that the PPP did not leave the government after the verdict of the EC was published in May. It needed peaceful demonstrations all through the summer, with no results. Finally with the occupation of the airport the PPP was forced to go. The PPP is to blame that the airport was occupated. If they would have gone freely in May, nobody would have been needed to demonstrate or to orchestrate the occupation of the airport to mount enough pressure on this corrupt PPP-government or the PPP-party.

I don't think that is correct.

Samak was banned around October because of the cooking show.

The siege of the airport went for 9 days and ended in December after the Constitutional Court disbanded the PPP.

EDIT: And I'll go with UG on his comment. The PAD are the only ones to blame for occupying the airport.

Yep.

And people making such ridiculous claims leads to statements from others that of you are anti-Thaksin then you must be pro-yellow which is simply not the case.

See the whole thing! 1. Samak is not the PPP. The EC reported the evidence of vote buying to the CC in May! The get-together of the CC to come to a verdict in this case was effectively obstructed by the PPP; there were various attemps by the PPP to change the constitution in their favour and so forth. After the public pressure mounted and ended in the occupation of the Airport, the CC finally came to the long overdue verdict, with the result of the disbandment.

As I wrote before: If the PPP would not have hindered the CC, and would have disbanded theirselves after a verdict of the CC in - lets say June - , there would have been not a single need for demonstrations or the occupation of the airport. So, who is to blame? Those who used a last resort to reach a verdict by the CC, after having peaceful demonstrated throughout the summer, or those who destructed democratic values by clinging to power, refusing to accept the truth found by the EC, hindered the CC, and even tried to change the constitution with retroactive effect in their favour?

[anotherpeter]

I feel the OP's explanation makes it even more obvious why Abhisit lacks credibility and why people have a problem with it. The explanation sounds as credible as a used car salesman.

When you asked if you were missing anything, I would say yes... you missed the part where you were trying to paint a picture of a credible democratic process.

It seemed to be a democratic process when the PPP was in power. Which part wasn't democratic?

Most international papers today point out the fact that the current PM lacks credibility... just mentioned that fact again on Channel News Asia 5 minutes ago. Check BBC, New York times, Routers,etc. Get away from the biased catfish-rappers like The Nation and Bangkok Times and maybe your eyes will be opened. Censorship and lack of freedom of speech (also not true democracy imo) are commonplace in Thailand. So take the time to examine some news outside of Thailand… unless of course you're blocked. An unbiased view is real news; otherwise it's just another opinion.

Where does the Abhisit lack credibility? He was supposed to be visiting other countries.

The news a quoting red shirts that say he lacks credibility. You should stop taking the words you want out of the reports.

And I stopped reading the Thai English papers for facts long ago.

Fact is, if Abhisist agreed to elections today he would lose... not hard to figure out why he refuses. How many of the Yellow Shirt advocates actually believe he would win? Speak up!! The only argument I hear is he would lose because of vote buying. If so, then couldn't vote buying happen next year too? What then?

1) The Democrats would probably be able to form a coalition government if there was an election now. They have it now, why not later.

2) The point is, they don't have to have an election now.

What will happen when there is finally a real election and/if someone the elites dislikes gets elected? Sure would be embarrassing to stage a coup and repeat the sad process the OP has clearly pointed out. If that chain of events was actually credible, then there wouldn't be so many post trying to justify it, it would stand on its own merits. You don't like it? No problem… blame vote buying, stage another coup..repeat every 4 years.

The cycle will continue unless something changes. At least the Red Shirts are trying to make a change...

If the people elect someone you don't like (and you actually voted), then at least respect the process and hope your choice wins next election. Respect the fact that the elected leader is the people's choice. That's real democracy and that's what needs to change. And that surely isn't what the people got with Abhisit.

You didn't read the OP did you???

It explains that Abhisit is the elected leader.

Not every one wanted him, but the way the system works here, and in most democratic countries.

Not every one wanted the PPP or Thaksin either.

And the fact that there is a coalition government that REPRESENTS A MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY (voters anyway) means that a MAJORITY did not want the PPP or Thaksin.

You're right. Things need to change. The elections need to be free and fair EVERYWHERE.

The red shirts are not looking for change. They are looking to go back to Thaksin.

Edited March 16, 2010 by anotherpeter

[moresomekl]

The problem is, with a direct general election, like we got here in France, the chain of event would be way much simpler :

- General direct election of prime minister : A red leader ( T or else) is elected with a large majority.

- Stability for the next 5 years. End of the story.

This is Democracy and This scares a couple of Big Dudes in BKK apparently.

Not necessarily. The Democrats got more votes in the proportional component of the 2007 election. 39.63% of votes compared to 39.60% of the votes for the PPP.

Besides, it's just a different process, it doesn't make it any more or less of a democracy.

And, it doesn't make Abhisit any less legitimate.

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Its not called democracy in Thailand now it sounds a bit like chaos and anarchy .

Yes Abhasit is legal for now but if a party of Abhasit coalition switches side suddenly then Abhasit is no longer legally the PM . Then to prevent that , the fundamental question is on whether Abhasit is working to please his colleagues in parliament , or to serve the thai people . That may not be necessarily the same

[thaihome]

... the fundamental question is on whether Abhasit is working to please his colleagues in parliament , or to serve the thai people . That may not be necessarily the same

No shit Sherlock. Where you born last night or something? That’s the reality of politics. You think Thaksin and subsequent his cronies (and relatives) were working to “serve the Thai people”?

I appreciate idealism as much as anybody, but this is getting ridiculous.

TH

[moresomekl]

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Abhisit is a good and decent person i truly believe , but he has not much real power by himself .

Thaksin is too controversial to become a thai PM again i think .

I am not so sure that red shirts insist on Thaksin ONLY as prime minister . For sure they want some of his policies .

[moresomekl]

the fundamental question is on whether Abhasit is working to please his colleagues in parliament , or to serve the thai people . That may not be necessarily the same

No shit Sherlock. Where you born last night or something? That's the reality of politics. You think Thaksin and subsequent his cronies (and relatives) were working to "serve the Thai people"?

I appreciate idealism as much as anybody, but this is getting ridiculous.

TH

Cool down dude . I am neutral , i should have said Thaksin or Abhasit or any of them as long as parlementary democracy instead of direct democracy to elect the PM . At least less risk that way ....

[moresomekl]

How about the earthquake in Haiti?

Thaksin is in Haiti now ?

[jdinasia]

Please use the

QUOTE

function properly.

Thailand is Thailand .... not France! (thank goodness!)

[anotherpeter]

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**********

Abhisit is a good and decent person i truly believe , but he has not much real power by himself .

Thaksin is too controversial to become a thai PM again i think .

I am not so sure that red shirts insist on Thaksin ONLY as prime minister . For sure they want some of his policies .

(work out how to use the quotes. It will make your posts easier to read)

They are not putting forward any other alternatives. All they talk about is Thaksin.

There is a big assumption that if the reds were in government, they would change the laws to get Thaksin off and get his money back, and he would come back and take over. It is only an assumption, but it something the red leaders have been pushing.

Sure, most of the protestors want more help from the government, but they want to bring Thaksin back to do that.

[moresomekl]

Please use the

QUOTE

function properly.

Thailand is Thailand .... not France! (thank goodness!)

Thailand looks more like Zaire now . Minus the blax that is ....

[jdinasia]

Please use the

QUOTE

function properly.

Thailand is Thailand .... not France! (thank goodness!)

Thailand looks more like Zaire now . Minus the blax that is ....

No it doesn't and if you were here you would know that

[lannarebirth]

^ Abhisit lacks a moral mandate to govern the country. That's why they are protesting. He should call an election now.

Exactly, if a spade was called a spade in Thailand, the Democrates would have been dissolved by now clearing the way for an election. If the cycle continued for the next 50 years then maybe, just maybe the electorate might get an idea that the wealthier elite controlling the Election Commission are not going to accept any form of vote buying. In that case, after generations of it being accepted country-wide might just sink in!

Abhisit lacks the moral mandate to govern the country BECAUSE all other competing parties big enough to form a government were removed by the judicial process. So what do we have. We have a Judical Government, NOT a government of the people.

If Consitution writers had any sense, they would allow for re-election if any more than 20% of MP votes in Parliament were removed by the Election Commission. Therefor allowing for the electorate to still have a say in governance. The people who voted for PPP do not have a say, that is why they are so so so so so so very pissed off............ huMANnatURE

You seem to have a real problem accepting the decrees of Thai courts. Deadbeat mentality. Anyhow the judicial process IS in keeping with the Thai constitution, just as it was in America when the court ended that electoral stalemate. Laws, rules, statutes. process, that's what a government is.

Deadbeats hit children, and that could become very problematic! You have missed out a point here! Let's see what your statement says:

Laws, rules, Statues, Coup detat, process, that's what a government is! For which is calling a spade a spade in Thailand. DB

The coup led to an election that saw a Thaksin backed government installed. There is no link between the coup and the current government, no matter how many times one might proclaim it.

[moresomekl]

Thailand is Thailand .... not France! (thank goodness!)

Thailand looks more like Zaire now . Minus the blax that is ....

No it doesn't and if you were here you would know that

I AM . Anyway just joking

[jdinasia]

The AOT closed the airport, after the Thaksin government did not evict them. Thaksin's fault.

Point of order ---- It was a Thaksin proxy party that could not control things in BKK at that time, not TRT. (Still Thaksin's fault!)