Thaksin's Rural Red Shirts Swarm The Capital

[thepodest]

Question of the Day :

Should we hold an election every time when there are 250000 out of 67 million people come out and march?

Btw, 250000/67000000 = 0.04% of total population.

Another the question is how you define "legitmate". In terms of the consitution, Abhisit's government is totally legit.

Now you have a group of people who are not happy with the current government and label them "illegitimate".

Who is right? Also, the government is supposed to represent the people, and can be democratically overthrown. Has that time come?

I hope everyone realises that the problem is within the system. Throwing Abhisit government out will never end problems. If Puea Thai comes back then we will get to see The Yellow Return of the Yellow Shirt.

[brahmburgers]

I liked the pics of the folks that are in between..... They were wearing orange shirts! :-}

Thais enjoy revelry. The folks smiling in the photos are glad to smile - simple glee at being out with their friends and seeing people parade down the street. Few are wearing red themselves, and none are marching with the Red Shirts.

I, as a plaid shirted farang, can bicycle down a Thai street and, if I see a gaggle of girls, I smile and wave and (surprise!) ....they smile and wave back at me. Does that make them adherents to my political ideas?

As for 'last stand' and all that. There's no such thing as a 'last stand' for Thaksin. The Red organizers will soon be on the phone, asking Thaksin what he wants to do next, and they'll be particularly keen on knowing how much more money they'll be getting paid. Simple: as long as the money keeps getting transferred, there will be a Red movement. When Thaksin's money doesn't get transferred, it's back to finding a real job.

[Thai at Heart]

The people elected MP's and the MP's have decided that the Democrats are good enough to lead them, with Abhisit as the Prime Minister. Yes, this Government was elected. The MP's, who run the Government coaliton were elected. What's so hard to understand about that. Maybe some other Western Countries do it differently, I don't know, but in Canada, where I came from, we have the same system as in Thailand. We have had many minority Governments over the year.

The TRT, PPP, etc., got their hands caught in the cookie jar and were disqualified to remain in office (just the way it should be, if corruption gets found out, the corrupt should get kicked out of office). Those were the rules...if executives in the party get caught vote buying, the party gets thrown out and that's what happened, if I remember right.

Now we have a minority Government and scheduled Elections coming up again in December 2011. So what is the problem, why not wait until the elections??? Abhisit is doing a decent job and the minority Government is working. If it works, don't fix it

Rules are rules, yup, elections will come one way or another. The Dems are in, and the reds are complaining.

If you would prefer that the template of protests such as the PAD and apparently army approved coalitions become the norm in Thailand for forming governments in the middle of a parliament then I guess you can approve of anything. Ironically, by modifying the previous constitution to remove the likelihood of absolute majorities a la TRT, the coup makers have increased the power of greasy little power brokers like Newin and promoted them to kingmakers.

I don't deny that the Dems are the government, however, I am rather glad that someone is bothering to complain about how the deal to get the Dems into power was put together and their conduct in opposition. Even Abhisit himself has admitted that how he came to be in power wasn't exactly ideal. I would be more worried if the entire country just shrugged its shoulders and felt TIT, I have no way of expressing my disappointment at this type of political shenanigins. Thank god this isn't China.

[ChiangMaiFun]

[quote name=Even Abhisit himself has admitted that how he came to be in power wasn't exactly ideal.

Now aint that the truth... I am not denying the legality of the government - but it's not all about law it's about perception - peace will not/cannot come until there is a fair and successful general election - if he wins I, for one, would totally support the position that he stays until his term is up - quite simple really - nothing to do with K.Thaksin etc. although many posters have dubbed me and others as 'Thaksin stooges etc.' quiet silly really.

[scotbeve]

Question of the Day :

Should we hold an election every time when there are 250000 out of 67 million people come out and march?

Btw, 250000/67000000 = 0.04% of total population.

Another the question is how you define "legitmate". In terms of the consitution, Abhisit's government is totally legit.

Now you have a group of people who are not happy with the current government and label them "illegitimate".

Who is right? Also, the government is supposed to represent the people, and can be democratically overthrown. Has that time come?

I hope everyone realises that the problem is within the system. Throwing Abhisit government out will never end problems. If Puea Thai comes back then we will get to see The Yellow Return of the Yellow Shirt.

Just to highlight your reply thepodest, you did write 0.04% of the total population not the total voting population.

Also another point to be made; by doing away with the 1997 constitution (by the military junta), the 50,000 signature petition rule (to dissolve Parliament) is now gone.

[shawndoc]

Now aint that the truth... I am not denying the legality of the government - but it's not all about law it's about perception - peace will not/cannot come until there is a fair and successful general election - if he wins I, for one, would totally support the position that he stays until his term is up - quite simple really - nothing to do with K.Thaksin etc. although many posters have dubbed me and others as 'Thaksin stooges etc.' quiet silly really.

So, were you complaining about the government not having had a "fair and sucessful general election" since the last election, or only since the new coaltion was formed and voted Abhesit the PM?

[earthpig]

"I pent several hours yesterday evening at Red Central near Victory Monument." sic

Earthpig, I am assuming that you are not a Thai national, correct me if I am wrong. Was this a wise thing to do? Didn't I read somewhere that foreign nationals attending political rallies would be arrested?

Correct im not thai.

I hadnt heard about the no-farang-at-rallies-rule. But the authorities werent anywhere near the rally site. You have to pass Red checkpoints to get in, and u can be assured that no police would attempt that.

And even were that not the case, the authorities have rather more to worry about than gawking farang. and being near Khao San road, its not surprising that there were a bunch of them: mostly backpackers wondering what the carnival was all about.

[thaihome]

...Also another point to be made; by doing away with the 1997 constitution (by the military junta), the 50,000 signature petition rule (to dissolve Parliament) is now gone.

I don’t think you have actually read the section of the 1997 or the 2007 constitutions you are referring to. Here, let me help you

1997 constitution

Section 170. The persons having the right to vote of not less than fifty thousand in number shall have a right to submit a petition to the President of the National Assembly to consider such law as prescribed in Chapter 3 and Chapter 5 of this Constitution.

A bill must be attached to the petition referred to in paragraph one.

All this means is with 50,000 signatures the people have right make the National Assemble consider a law. So at best they could submit a bill requesting dissolution of the house but if the majority vote against it, it would not pass. This is no different then a no confidence vote.

Then you go on and say it was removed from the 2007, when in fact the same clause is there but number of signatures required has been reduced to 10,000

2007 constitution

Section 163. The persons having the right to vote of not less than ten thousand in number shall have a right to submit a petition to the President of the National Assembly to consider such bill as prescribed in Chapter 3 and Chapter 5 of this Constitution.

A bill must be attached to the petition referred to in paragraph one.

What you need to do is start researching before you post.

I intentionally did not post the links. Will be good practice for you to find them yourself.

TH

[Wolfie]

Well, i just watched the same procession go past my office... and i would say there are considerably less people/cars than there were over the weekend...

... seems the reds have failed and their numbers depleted.

Thanks for coming guys, see you again in 6mths and thanks for spending Thaksin's money in Bangkok - have a safe trip home!

[Insight]

Wasn't actively counting, but for the past 30 minutes you could observe at least one pickup truck full of redshirts go past our office on Asok within a 30 second window. Quite a few redshirts on motorbikes also. That's about as precise as I can get

Just read there's an ISA in force now, so will no doubt up the ante

[Cayenne]

Well, i just watched the same procession go past my office... and i would say there are considerably less people/cars than there were over the weekend...

... seems the reds have failed and their numbers depleted.

Thanks for coming guys, see you again in 6mths and thanks for spending Thaksin's money in Bangkok - have a safe trip home!

My office is on Sukumvit Road too. One of my co-workers who stopped by in the 7-Eleven before work overheard some Red shirts planning to go home upcountry via Bang Na after this excusion as they saw no point going back to Pan Fah bridge since they are frustrated with their leaders.

[bkkjames]

Well, i just watched the same procession go past my office... and i would say there are considerably less people/cars than there were over the weekend...

... seems the reds have failed and their numbers depleted.

Thanks for coming guys, see you again in 6mths and thanks for spending Thaksin's money in Bangkok - have a safe trip home!

My office is on Sukumvit Road too. One of my co-workers who stopped by in the 7-Eleven before work overheard some Red shirts planning to go home upcountry via Bang Na after this excusion as they saw no point going back to Pan Fah bridge since they are frustrated with their leaders.

Yep, holiday over.

[camerata]

There were 100-200 riot police outside the British Embassy when I passed at 8.30 this morning. My taxi driver said the mob was going to the Brit and American embassies. Not sure why.

[Wolfie]

Just had another group go past, a few more this time... from my limited viewpoint i would say no more than 2,000 people.

So add that to what i saw earlier... 4,000 people maximum.

Obviously that's not all of them, but they are beginning to look a bit 'thin on the ground'

[thaihome]

Asok at Sukhumvit is flowing normally in both directions. Police have blocked east side of Sukhumvit at Asok and appear to be closing the entire eastbound side. West side is moving but huge slowdown at across from soi 31 where the east side is closed off with no vehicles getting pass.

TH

Edited March 17, 2010 by thaihome

[Insight]

There were 100-200 riot police outside the British Embassy when I passed at 8.30 this morning. My taxi driver said the mob was going to the Brit and American embassies. Not sure why.

I drove path both embassies also this morning (breaking all the rules - mental, me). I noticed the riot police at the UK embassy appeared to be wearing something red beneath the riot gear around the collar?

Doubt it's anything to be concerned about - pretty sure the embassy staff would be taking action if they felt anything untoward was going on.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

I just watched a convoy of ~15 pickups and ~30 motorbikes as well as one larger 6-wheel truck full of red shirts (and loudspeakers) passing Bangna intersection, heading downtown. Maybe 100-150 people altogether, in pissing rain.

My location is quite far from their supposed meeting point (Abhisit's place) and in the opposite direction so these appear to be "reinforcements" coming from Samupt Prakan.

Regards......

Thanh

[Wolfie]

100-150 people isnt going to make a jot of difference at this stage of the game really...

... my only real concern now is that those that are left will be mainly the 'hardcore' supporters... these are the ones that are more likely to start some trouble... especially with the ISA being invoked to stop them going down Sukhumvit Soi 31. Lets just hope that this demonstration remains peaceful

[jdinasia]

Now aint that the truth... I am not denying the legality of the government - but it's not all about law it's about perception - peace will not/cannot come until there is a fair and successful general election - if he wins I, for one, would totally support the position that he stays until his term is up - quite simple really - nothing to do with K.Thaksin etc. although many posters have dubbed me and others as 'Thaksin stooges etc.' quiet silly really.

So, were you complaining about the government not having had a "fair and sucessful general election" since the last election, or only since the new coaltion was formed and voted Abhesit the PM?

We have been all through this. CMF thinks that the government must be dissolved and new elections called, but isn't calling for the government to be dissolved. This is all based on the

"feeling" or "belief" that it isn't the legitimate government even though he admits that it IS the legitimate government. Instead of educating people

about the parliamentary process it seems easier for him to have that contradictory stance on what should happen. It seems to have no internal logic at all

to me but apparently it does to him.

[bkkjames]

2nd group heading up suk way now. hundreds of bikes. A bit too early for 1150 perhaps?

Hold that.

I think it's the same group coming around again. Recognize the guy on the microphone.

Edited March 17, 2010 by bkkjames

[thaihome]

There is very light rain at Suk and Asok.

Eastbound side pretty well blocked, I guess in anticipation of the procession arriving. Westbound side of Suk and both sides of Asok flowing normally through intersection. Must be 50 police around the intersection.

TH

[Old Man River]

100-150 people isnt going to make a jot of difference at this stage of the game really...

... my only real concern now is that those that are left will be mainly the 'hardcore' supporters... these are the ones that are more likely to start some trouble... especially with the ISA being invoked to stop them going down Sukhumvit Soi 31. Lets just hope that this demonstration remains peaceful

I understand your concern about the hardcore Red Shirts, but they are now treading on thin ice. Many support Suthep.

[kurtgruen]

"Red shirt leaders negotiating with police to allow all protesters in front of PM's house;police to only allow "some"

Why would they allow anybody to pour human blood on the property of their prime minister??? Somewhere along the line, they need to make a stand and say enough is enough - GO HOME!

[animatic]

Question of the Day :

Should we hold an election every time when there are 250000 out of 67 million people come out and march?

Btw, 250000/67000000 = 0.04% of total population.

Another the question is how you define "legitmate". In terms of the consitution, Abhisit's government is totally legit.

Now you have a group of people who are not happy with the current government and label them "illegitimate".

Who is right? Also, the government is supposed to represent the people, and can be democratically overthrown. Has that time come?

I hope everyone realises that the problem is within the system. Throwing Abhisit government out will never end problems. If Puea Thai comes back then we will get to see The Yellow Return of the Yellow Shirt.

Simple answers:

This is not approaching an majority of voters needed to cause a recall

or even to launch a potential recall plebiscite.

By the written laws of both 1997 and 2007 constitutions, both ratified by Thaivoters,

this is a legitimate government.

Those with sour grapes are not right just because they wish to be right.

The system is not as broken as the losing side wishes it to seem.

When they were on top the stem was perfect.

[tonywebster]

raining now, i am on suk 55 (thonglor), this should cool everyone down and wash the blood away.

[animatic]

Question of the Day :

Should we hold an election every time when there are 250000 out of 67 million people come out and march?

Btw, 250000/67000000 = 0.04% of total population.

Another the question is how you define "legitmate". In terms of the consitution, Abhisit's government is totally legit.

Now you have a group of people who are not happy with the current government and label them "illegitimate".

Who is right? Also, the government is supposed to represent the people, and can be democratically overthrown. Has that time come?

I hope everyone realises that the problem is within the system. Throwing Abhisit government out will never end problems. If Puea Thai comes back then we will get to see The Yellow Return of the Yellow Shirt.

Simple answers:

This is not approaching an majority of voters needed to cause a recall

or even to launch a potential recall plebiscite.

By the written laws of both 1997 and 2007 constitutions, both ratified by Thaivoters,

this is a legitimate government.

Those with sour grapes are not right just because they wish to be right.

The system is not as broken as the losing side wishes it to seem.

When they were on top the system was perfect.

The basic mechanism that elected Thaksin as PM elected Abhisit as PM.

That TRT and PPP got caught blatantly cheating is ONLY the faults of TRT and PPP.

That Thaksin created factions from other parties

to 'create one large party' called TRT,

doesn't mean it was not a coalition government with purchased factions,

in the same way the current one is.

Nothing AT ALL DIFFERENT except the TIMING of when those factions were purchased.

And by WHOME they were purchase, so on which sides they have bobbed between over the lat 15 years.

it is the same commercial politics of the last 20-25 years in Thailand.

The thing is now the leader is much less corrupt and more even handed,

and that will have a trickle down effect over time.

[Samuian]

At least they found out now that the army has got the better sound equipment and can out blast them anytime!

And while the army of the "dictatorship" didn't spill the blood of the "red liberators" to make them martyrs and get the pot to boil over, now they have to spill their own - how silly are these guy's, even Katthiya got the notion that there is something wrong, he must know, (imho) he anticipated something very different!

[Cayenne]

Boy, I bet the reds didn't think anything would "rain on their parade" until now

[bkkjames]

it appears they are stuck in their own traffic jam. don't they know bangkok has bad traffic?

[animatic]

...Also another point to be made; by doing away with the 1997 constitution (by the military junta), the 50,000 signature petition rule (to dissolve Parliament) is now gone.

I don’t think you have actually read the section of the 1997 or the 2007 constitutions you are referring to. Here, let me help you

1997 constitution

Section 170. The persons having the right to vote of not less than fifty thousand in number shall have a right to submit a petition to the President of the National Assembly to consider such law as prescribed in Chapter 3 and Chapter 5 of this Constitution.

A bill must be attached to the petition referred to in paragraph one.

All this means is with 50,000 signatures the people have right make the National Assemble consider a law. So at best they could submit a bill requesting dissolution of the house but if the majority vote against it, it would not pass. This is no different then a no confidence vote.

Then you go on and say it was removed from the 2007, when in fact the same clause is there but number of signatures required has been reduced to 10,000

2007 constitution

Section 163. The persons having the right to vote of not less than ten thousand in number shall have a right to submit a petition to the President of the National Assembly to consider such bill as prescribed in Chapter 3 and Chapter 5 of this Constitution.

A bill must be attached to the petition referred to in paragraph one.

What you need to do is start researching before you post.

I intentionally did not post the links. Will be good practice for you to find them yourself.

TH

The truth will out.