Are Many Thais Rude Or Lacking Developed Nation's Common Sense

[johnnyj]

Out of curiousity, I have heard mentioned many times that there are things that westerners do that Thai would consider to be rude, can any one list the worst / most common offences?

(or should I be starting a new thread to ask this?)

[wintermute]

Out of curiousity, I have heard mentioned many times that there are things that westerners do that Thai would consider to be rude, can any one list the worst / most common offences?

Loudness, arrogance, lack of table manners in Thai eating situations, whining about everything, condescension, sexually inappropriate behavior with non working women etc..

Western behavior in Thailand is much worse than typical Thai behavior.

[Fore Man]

An earlier poster on this page (Bina) suggested that a Thai ought to respond to this topic, so we can gauge their reactions. In the absence of that, I can relate a conversation I had with a young Thai university student in Melbourne. I asked him "why do Thai drivers act so dangerously and with no consideration for others on the road?" To which, he replied, "That's easy, it's because they think and behave with the 'Me First' mentality". Beyond driving manners, I think this sums it up for most deviations of commonly expected etiquette norms at the hands of Thais. The young man's answer made perfect sense to me and has stuck with me ever since....it explains succinctly the attitude of most Thais here with regard to their actions towards others: the dumb old lady at the bottom of the escalator, not thinking to hold a door open, passing on a blind mountain curve, blocking a narrow lane while running a quick errand and so forth...the obvious attitude isn't one of intentionally trying to be rude, but a much more basic 'Me First' mentality. If you can remember this is what motivates most Thais, then we may certainly be disappointed but not insulted.

[bravia69]

There is a Chinese saying, One of kind of rice, feed hundreds kinds of people.

Edited March 17, 2010 by bravia69

[johnnyj]

Out of curiousity, I have heard mentioned many times that there are things that westerners do that Thai would consider to be rude, can any one list the worst / most common offences?

Loudness, arrogance, lack of table manners in Thai eating situations, whining about everything, condescension, sexually inappropriate behavior with non working women etc..

Western behavior in Thailand is much worse than typical Thai behavior.

well I must admit, thats pretty rude, those behaviors would be considered rude in most western countries as well - with the exception of loudness possibly.

are there any specific other ones??

[Loz]

I think sometimes culture is a good argument but sometimes its is used as a scape goat. the longer you are here integrating with the people, the more you will be able to better guess which is which.

The opening doors and pushing in in queues is bad. I love the walking without looking deal though. I have perfected this now. I'm about 90kg and so when I walk looking up and to the left of where I am going I can see the thais playing chicken with me until someone bumps into me and I don't even look. I just keep going. clearly, like them, I am too important to be concerned with other peoples comings and goings.

In the UK I reserved this for Xmas shopping. In Thailand it is for any day I feel like a laugh.

Love the thais for there funny little ways. remember, we need the rice!

[MartinL]

Perhaps not entirely on-topic, but this illustrates just how much at odds Thai & UK etiquette can be.

Some weeks ago, my wife was knocked down by a motorcy' while walking across the road. She was quite badly hurt. We've since seen the other woman involved in Lotus & they have chatted like long-lost mates.

This morning at breakfast, out of the blue:-

Mrs. L says "This woman bump me, I hate her. H-A-T-E .... hate!! She not look and maybe she kill me".

Me; "Why do you talk to her in Lotus like she is your friend? Why not tell her you feel very bad and you don't like her?"

Mrs.; "That is not polite"

Me; "It is not polite to bump you but she does it!!"

Mrs.; Smiles.

Love the wife to bits but often don't understand the lengths Thais will go to in making others not feel bad about their actions.

[bravia69]

Wherever ground is stood on, the sky is hold high

Meaning: Wherever we live, we must observe the local custom.

[tigerfish]

Out of curiousity, I have heard mentioned many times that there are things that westerners do that Thai would consider to be rude, can any one list the worst / most common offences?

Loudness, arrogance, lack of table manners in Thai eating situations, whining about everything, condescension, sexually inappropriate behavior with non working women etc..

Western behavior in Thailand is much worse than typical Thai behavior.

lack of table manners in thai eating situations, and what may they be?

not eating with ones fingers or not using a spoon and fork to shovel food into your mouth.

or might it be the fact that most of us dont chew with our mouths open.

maybe its the fact that most of us dont choose to pick our noses whilst other people are eating. or perhaps its that we dont choose to pick our teeth out with a tooth pick, and cover our mouth while doing so. or even worse, deciding not to clear our throat and get rid of whatever comes up, on the floor next to someone who is eating.

loudness, arrogance, whining about everything, condescension. do me a favour!

as for showing affection towards my thai wife(but not in a sexual way) i.e hugging, holding hands or kissing thats up to us, if thai society has a problem with it i suggest they deal with it. in the same way i and every other farnag in this land have to deal with things we dont necessarily agree with.

[MartinL]

Wherever ground is stood on, the sky is hold high

Meaning: Wherever we live, we must observe the local custom.

Following customs that appear, to us as individuals, to be right & sensible is one thing. Going along with them simply because everybody else does and "that's the way it's done here" its not always good policy.

If I were ever daft enough to go to Somalia, would it be right to have my daughter circumcised with a dirty, rusty blade because it's a local custom? I don't think so!!!!!!

If Mrs. L had made her feelings known, the bike rider concerned might have gone away & thought about her lousy riding & lack of awareness of other road users. As it is, she now thinks it's all OK because my wife was all friendliness & smiles when, actually, she feels the exact opposite of the face she presented. Not sensible at all, to my way of thinking.

[bina]

actually, tigerfish, u should knwo: eating with hands there is also an etiquette. youve eaten humous and pita with your hands also, and your are not supposed to lick your fingers after each bite!!

my husband eats with hands (only one hand, and if u never noticed, most thais will automatically wash their hands after eating since they do use their hands - sticky rice or regular rice being the reason). when at in laws, we were sitting up in the house, so a finger bowl was brought around by a young child so everone could wash hands after eating... finger bowls are not popular anymore in the west but , apropo, on pesach, one of teh ceremonies is having the males wash their hands in a fingerbowl... sa a ceremonial act (jewish law, must pour water over each hand before eating, even if u just washed your hands with soap. its a ritual thing.) i get 'the look' from husband when , after eating, even if i was eating with a spoon, i dont get up and rinse my hands.....its the same 'look' that i get when i dont speak nicely to some old biddy in teh village... or if my shirt is unbuttoned one to many...

covering teeth while picking them-- all my russian aquaintances do the same; its certainly less rude then sticking a toothpick in between your lips and playing with it, which i see the morrocans do here. it drives me beserk since the peopel who do it are well brought up, polite other then that.

chewing gum like a cow. hubby hates that. every other person here does that. he thinks, again, its like 'a buffalo'... (kwai!!)only rude people chew gum and speak; its like speaking and eating at the same time. i get 'the look'.

other things that freak thais out: stepping over food that is layed out on the flloor if u are eating on the floor. my kids get yelled at for that one. and it makes me cringe when we are on picnics here and some person steps through where all the food is layed out, even if its still in containers and stuff. thai conditioning. husband gets some stars for his training methods here.

crossing in front of someone or between two people rather then walking around them, even if there is barely an room to pass. ive had thais squeeze past me, trying very very hard to avoid body contact also, rather then say 'excuse me' and cut between me and someone speaking, in a small room filled with people. here people just cut through.

ways of handing things to thais (ever see a thai throw anything to someone 'here, catch the keys'? msot thais i know will get up and hand me the thing.

no room at a table, one thai will suddenly 'be full' and get up to give a latecomer a place to sit... this ive noticed from watching very large groups of (mostly males) in gatherings, parties, etc. you'll see everyone shifting over to make room, without shoving, or shouting, or pointing out other places farther away.

people here hawk and spit (the russians are big on that one) here also; hate it...as well. have taught husband that for me, that is a gross no no. i dont care that half the population does it. dont do it near me. but i cant correct every person that infringes that can i?

husband thinks that not wearing shoes when outside is rude and disgusitng cause then feet are dirty when entering the house (eldest daughter main culprit, but very common here, the barefoot thing), .

if u would ever interview him, he can give a very very long list of what he feels is rude about here, and farang behavior in general.

there are rude thais. and in the thai way, many thais are equally rude back but it is so subtle that u wouldnt notice. eye for an eye rather then education/correction.

i have thais coming to my house; they always at first feel incomfortable as they are 'workers' and i am a 'boss', we have computer, dogs, etc. they used to sit frozen in their seats, barely touching the food that i would put out (sunflower seeds, cookies, making coffee or mint tea-the israeli version of being polite)... they'e gotten up to wash dishes after dinner here, never come empty handed, always with fanta or beer or veggies from the garden....

im with richard on this one: in thailand and here with thais, i find them much more polite, respectful (im an older woman compared to most of them, younger men), among themselves and with others around them.

anon also has his own ideas of common sense and thinks that farangs are strictly lacking in it. i would say that the common sense is actually differences, in this case, between farm boy common sense, and city wise sense. not neccesarily thai vs wester.

bina

israel

still waiting for the lurking thais to respond. probably too polite to say what they really think. greng jai and all that...)

[paul3404]

Its not rude. It a cultural thing, and not confined just to Thailand. Asians often consider western ways odd too. If you live here, you have to accept that thats the way it is and a few wingeing farangs are not going to change things.

Thai people arent rude or inconsiderate, i work in china and believe me the chinese are the most inconsiderate, dirty and disgusting people on this planet.

[bravia69]

@ MartinL

You should be thankful that you are in Thailand not Somalia where way of life are more civilised.

Message to all whingers, don't expect Thais to conform with your way of life back home (Western country) since nobody is holding you to stay or else you know where the Suvarnabumi International Aiport is don't you.

[onlooker]

Ah, peasants. You got to love the poor simple folk really. They know no better. I often like to take the opportunity to educate them and remind them how superior I am in every way. Does that work? No idea, but it makes me feel better.

[tigerfish]

actually, tigerfish, u should knwo: eating with hands there is also an etiquette. youve eaten humous and pita with your hands also, and your are not supposed to lick your fingers after each bite!!

my husband eats with hands (only one hand, and if u never noticed, most thais will automatically wash their hands after eating since they do use their hands - sticky rice or regular rice being the reason). when at in laws, we were sitting up in the house, so a finger bowl was brought around by a young child so everone could wash hands after eating... finger bowls are not popular anymore in the west but , apropo, on pesach, one of teh ceremonies is having the males wash their hands in a fingerbowl... sa a ceremonial act (jewish law, must pour water over each hand before eating, even if u just washed your hands with soap. its a ritual thing.) i get 'the look' from husband when , after eating, even if i was eating with a spoon, i dont get up and rinse my hands.....its the same 'look' that i get when i dont speak nicely to some old biddy in teh village... or if my shirt is unbuttoned one to many...

covering teeth while picking them-- all my russian aquaintances do the same; its certainly less rude then sticking a toothpick in between your lips and playing with it, which i see the morrocans do here. it drives me beserk since the peopel who do it are well brought up, polite other then that.

chewing gum like a cow. hubby hates that. every other person here does that. he thinks, again, its like 'a buffalo'... (kwai!!)only rude people chew gum and speak; its like speaking and eating at the same time. i get 'the look'.

other things that freak thais out: stepping over food that is layed out on the flloor if u are eating on the floor. my kids get yelled at for that one. and it makes me cringe when we are on picnics here and some person steps through where all the food is layed out, even if its still in containers and stuff. thai conditioning. husband gets some stars for his training methods here.

crossing in front of someone or between two people rather then walking around them, even if there is barely an room to pass. ive had thais squeeze past me, trying very very hard to avoid body contact also, rather then say 'excuse me' and cut between me and someone speaking, in a small room filled with people. here people just cut through.

ways of handing things to thais (ever see a thai throw anything to someone 'here, catch the keys'? msot thais i know will get up and hand me the thing.

no room at a table, one thai will suddenly 'be full' and get up to give a latecomer a place to sit... this ive noticed from watching very large groups of (mostly males) in gatherings, parties, etc. you'll see everyone shifting over to make room, without shoving, or shouting, or pointing out other places farther away.

people here hawk and spit (the russians are big on that one) here also; hate it...as well. have taught husband that for me, that is a gross no no. i dont care that half the population does it. dont do it near me. but i cant correct every person that infringes that can i?

husband thinks that not wearing shoes when outside is rude and disgusitng cause then feet are dirty when entering the house (eldest daughter main culprit, but very common here, the barefoot thing), .

if u would ever interview him, he can give a very very long list of what he feels is rude about here, and farang behavior in general.

there are rude thais. and in the thai way, many thais are equally rude back but it is so subtle that u wouldnt notice. eye for an eye rather then education/correction.

i have thais coming to my house; they always at first feel incomfortable as they are 'workers' and i am a 'boss', we have computer, dogs, etc. they used to sit frozen in their seats, barely touching the food that i would put out (sunflower seeds, cookies, making coffee or mint tea-the israeli version of being polite)... they'e gotten up to wash dishes after dinner here, never come empty handed, always with fanta or beer or veggies from the garden....

im with richard on this one: in thailand and here with thais, i find them much more polite, respectful (im an older woman compared to most of them, younger men), among themselves and with others around them.

anon also has his own ideas of common sense and thinks that farangs are strictly lacking in it. i would say that the common sense is actually differences, in this case, between farm boy common sense, and city wise sense. not neccesarily thai vs wester.

bina

israel

still waiting for the lurking thais to respond. probably too polite to say what they really think. greng jai and all that... )

off topic i know, but you employ the thai workers on the kibbutz or a moshav and your the boss. i always understood it that on a kibbutz everyone was equal and knowone was higher than anyone else.

or you employ them as outside workers, but not in the volunteer sence. in the same way my kibbutz would hire arabs to work in the groves. they were fed, some were given living quarters but paid very little. how much do you pay your thai employees? and what visa arrangement do they have. not being of jewish origin and not married to my isrealie girlfriend. my kibbutz used to get me a yearly visa on the grounds that i was an asset to the kibbutz through my work and went to school to learn hebrew. mind you this was some 20 odd years ago, maybe things have changed slightly.

Edited March 17, 2010 by tigerfish

[MartinL]

To Bravia69 :-

Quote - "You should be thankful that you are in Thailand not Somalia where way of life are more civilised"

Do you want to reconsider what you've written there & try a little punctuation? Isn't it a bit of a slur on Thailand, from someone who appears to be trying to defend the perceived rudeness of some Thais.

________________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________

If foreigners in general, and Thais specifically (since we're talking about Thais here), in my home country feel free & able to voice their opinions on the shortcomings of the country, I'm happy with that. But then I should have every right to do the same here, without having someone suggest I ship out. To say nothing would be to imply that everything here is perfect, which it certainly is not. But things are far from perfect in my home country too. Or any other country, come to that.

I really don't care whether Thais change their ways or not. I'm very grateful to be able to live happily amongst the very nice people who are my neighbours in this small town and I act in a way that makes life as hassle-free as possible for me without causing offence to them, although occasionally I won't be aware of doing something that might offend. But I'm still learning. Contrast that with a retired schoolteacher I know slightly who knows my wife, knows we're married, knows my name but he still insists on referring to me as "Farang", knowing it causes offence to me and, more importantly, my wife. It really only offends me because my wife is offended.

I like Thailand because my wife is Thai & this is where we are very happy to have our home together. No other reason.

Edited March 17, 2010 by MartinL

[t.s]

I've said it before: I've found that Thai's are unable to understand the concept of causing inconvenience to others. Whenever it happens (often) all you get is a blank stare of incomprehension.

Well at least I got my rantings for the day out but feel a little silly that you were able to sum up exactly what I was talking about in one sentence .... "unable to understand the concept of causing inconvenience to others"

Ever heard of 'greng jai'?

er, no, do you think you could please whip off an accurate explanation or 100 words or so?

[bravia69]

Mr MartinL,

It was typo errors, sorry. I am not trying to defend the perceived rudeness of some Thais. What I was trying to say is that not necessary to force yourself or anyone else, for that matter if you are not happy with the local customs, then its time to move on there's no point whinging about, it won't change overnight.

You were also comparing Thailand and Somalia, as you know both countries are totally different, you can't compare apple and orange. I guess your wife may be brought up, educated overseas or been living in the West for a quite a while and accustomed to Western way of life, hence when she back home to her roots find some local customs irritating to her.

If you really want to do something to make Thai society better, the way you like it why not do what I have suggested in my first post, quote: Next time, when you see such people, just approach them, ask them to show you their ID card to confirm that always those ugly acts are all done by Thais, let them know that what they did are not correct, don't just keep quiet standing there and assume, they will appreaciate your kindness. unquote.

Edited March 17, 2010 by bravia69

[MartinL]

Thanks, Bravia69. I'm glad that's cleared-up . I really mean that - it's so easy for small misunderstandings to be blown-up out of all proportion and that shouldn't be what this forum is about.

My wife has never been outside Thailand but she IS open to criticism & is willing to reconsider her thoughts on things if the reasoning used to try to convince her is sound.

She used to have no particular thoughts on the word "Farang" but, after having been told by her cousin's foreign husband that he found it offensive, we all discussed it and she decided that she, too, would object to being called by a name when she had made it known that it wasn't welcome. In the same way, I now do some things differently to the way in which I was brought-up, because I know it makes sense in Thailand. We can all change if the reasons for doing so are made clear but first we have to listen to what others have to say. Many Thais don't do that, believing that everything Thai is best.

[bravia69]

Thailand and the rest of the world will eventually change as we live in changing world, but we cannot expect things to happen overnight. Perhaps a "courtesy campaign" is needed even though it sounds pathetic which thought to be basic common sense. If that fails, at least there is an attempt to educate. There is a saying you can bring a horse to the lake but you cannot force him to drink from it.

[doggie888888]

Its not rude. It a cultural thing, and not confined just to Thailand. Asians often consider western ways odd too. If you live here, you have to accept that thats the way it is and a few wingeing farangs are not going to change things.

Thai people arent rude or inconsiderate, i work in china and believe me the chinese are the most inconsiderate, dirty and disgusting people on this planet.

And as far as the Chinese are concerned, you are the barbarian, the half devil, the dirty foreigner whose opinions are really irrelevant in the Chinese scheme of things. See, you are not the only person who narrowly looks at the world from one side only

From my perspective, I think yes they (Thais or Chinese) can be rude but hey, it's not personal and I probably appear rude to them sometimes too. More relevant is if I am in their country, I just smile and nod and get on with it. But if they are in my country, I'd tell them politely that they really need to understand MY country's etiquette for their own good.

[Furbie]

Out of curiousity, I have heard mentioned many times that there are things that westerners do that Thai would consider to be rude, can any one list the worst / most common offences?

Loudness, arrogance, lack of table manners in Thai eating situations, whining about everything, condescension, sexually inappropriate behavior with non working women etc..

Western behavior in Thailand is much worse than typical Thai behavior.

wintermute,

Your list is not that good, and frankly, Thais are some of the loudest people I have ever met, especially have you get more than three of them together.

johnnyj,

In my experience, here are some things Thais would consider rude, to varying degrees, which many Westerners have been guilty of:

1) Pointing your foot or the bottom of your foot at someone, using your foot as you would a hand (such as stepping on a fan to turn it off) – basically, keep your feet on the floor

2) Touching someone's head

3) Speaking too bluntly

4) Criticizing Thailand or Thai culture – some can't engage in any kind of discussion on this whatsoever

5) Criticizing the monarchy

6) Criticizing someone in front of others

7) Public displays of affection (beyond hand holding, which is generally ok in BKK)

8) Being seen with a hooker in public

9) Foul language - this one has gotten subordinates upset with me a number of times

10) Pointing at someone or holding your hand out to them as if to stop them (tell it to the hand type gesture)

11) Walking over food

12) Leaving your shoes on in a house, temple and certain businesses

13) Not dressing modestly – this is changing to some degree in central BKK

14) Walking in front of someone or between two people

Interestingly, many of the behaviors mentioned by Westerners as being considered rude bother Thais as well – especially things like being cut in line or aggressive drivers, they just don't do anything about it. One of my best female Thai friends is always calling other drivers "jai rai" as they do horrible things on the road, but she never beeps her horn, just complains to me about it. Why not ask one what they think when someone cuts them in line, believe me, they aren't happy about it, but they do sit there and take it.

[johndpoole]

Mr MartinL,

It was typo errors, sorry. I am not trying to defend the perceived rudeness of some Thais. What I was trying to say is that not necessary to force yourself or anyone else, for that matter if you are not happy with the local customs, then its time to move on there's no point whinging about, it won't change overnight.

You were also comparing Thailand and Somalia, as you know both countries are totally different, you can't compare apple and orange. I guess your wife may be brought up, educated overseas or been living in the West for a quite a while and accustomed to Western way of life, hence when she back home to her roots find some local customs irritating to her.

If you really want to do something to make Thai society better, the way you like it why not do what I have suggested in my first post, quote: Next time, when you see such people, just approach them, ask them to show you their ID card to confirm that always those ugly acts are all done by Thais, let them know that what they did are not correct, don't just keep quiet standing there and assume, they will appreaciate your kindness. unquote.

Anybody aware of any culture where a stranger of non-authority (and not even a legal resident) asking to see someone's ID card for personal reasons isn't considered rude and an intrusion? The first time you said this I thought it was a joke but am now wondering if you are serious.

Edited March 17, 2010 by johndpoole

[bravia69]

@ OP,

It can be done without being rude though. Show them that you have got good mannerism. Don't forget smile in the land of smiles.

[johndpoole]

john, u sound sincere and nice but u are really naive. nothing is that simple:

first of all, doors. do u know that in many of the shacks i visited in up country areas there are no doors, so its not a natural act. here, my kids are used to closing gates/doors whatever, cause we have three dogs, and i also often had baby goats in the house, they all helped me in the petting zoo where closing gates is a rule. howevr, city born folks would just walk right thru and not shut the gate. we always would say 'what, were u born n a bus?' (the driver opens and closes the door for you).

as for traffic accindents, here we have a very very high rate, and not for lack of advertising, police enforcement, and any other western methods, but the accidents keep happening.... due to bad, aggressive, high pressure driving. not stupidity. a whole family was wiped out last week due to an error of jusbment by a soldier in ajeepin a hurry; the father, and american, gave a full page rant about the exact same thing (his family was here visiting relatives),-- practically using your words. so its not so simple. there are deeper cultural problems then just: 'learning to be nicer/politer/better drivers'.

and a lot of it is education. you have the privelege of (im assuming here ) growing up in a priveledged, pro active country hwere people toe the line, literally (how many americans will push past a white line that says, do not go beyond this line.? well here, everyone goes past. why not? what will u do to me if i do?)

there is alot fo 'old boys' club mentality with thais; with no one strong to back u up, why bother to fight your fight. youll just get moved sideways. threfore lack of interfering. as for emergency? there are no ambulances as far as i know in thailand. its the chinese volunteers who have been known to fight over who takes the body to the ER.

how many years did it take to chage the american way of not seatbelting their kids, etc. here in israel it is very very recent. had huge arguements with my ex father in law about that. and i lost most arguements until the kibbutz big wigs made it an internal law for signing out a car. and providing car seats. and like most agricultural societies, our kids still pile in the back of a pick up for a ride to the orchards. (same parents wont give popcorn to their babies thought. the kbbutz nurse made that imprinted on all mothers' brains). so really it will take a while for safety to get imprinted in heads, and only through early education and repetition. as ive said before, ehre we are second world and always in a time lag of about 10 yrs from the states, in everything to baby forumula to bike safety and worker safety. so thailand iwll catch up, each year, by leaps and bounds, but only thru education and also from enforcemtn which is our biggest problem here also.

but safety is different then knwoing when to serve the salad. that is just social borgeouis bull.... proper forks, spoon on left of plate, napkin in lap, what to do with the left hand *under the tabe' or resting ont he table.... thats shallow surface bs, not politeness.

i watch my hsuband practically run to grap parcels when he sees some old lady kibbutznik tottering along with them, and he is not any different then the other thais i see here. and the thank you/good by when leaving thign has been discussed ad nauseum recently also.... in some thread soewhere here.

to bad the thais here dont respond (and we have a few lurking around, educated in the west etc...)

bina

israel

I could only glance at some of your post because what I read was ridiculous. It took one law to be passed (well in 50 states) and then one month of warnings beings issued and then 1-month of tickets being handed out to get the VAST majority of people to wear seat belts. Yes of course some people in all society are ignorant and ignore laws but we are talking about general behaviour.

As for it not being a matter of police enforcements this is abosolute BS and just plain not thinking to say this!!!! Unhelmeted kids kling for their lives every day as they stop necxt to police officers at intersections and NOTHING of any consequence is done if anything at all.

Please don't even bait me with this idiocy because innocent kids who have no say so are being killed at alarming levels as passangers on motorcycles not wearing helments and for the the VAST part the police do NOTHING to stop this.

This is not culture but ignorance, corruption, and complete lack of true concern for your the safety of kids.

[phetaroi]

When reading the majority of these posts, my first and strongest feeling is that the (western) people experiencing these 'problems' continue to live with a western mindset and, unless they change this, will always be frustrated/exasperated/unhappy/pee'd off living in Thailand...

Spoken like a passive Thai who is scared to speak up to make things better or protect their rights... ignore the issue and put no effort into debate or fixing the problem and continue to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to maintain your status of just beyond poverty. God forbid you speak up about obvious problems that exist that can benefit your fellow man and create more harmoney and safety .... sorry to be rude on a rudeness topic threat but this kind of thinking is just idiotic. And it is not Western people just experiencing the problems it is all people living in Thailand. Or correct me if I am wrong and provide some links to people who like having doors slammed in their face and being knocked over while exiting elevators or the MRT.

I think the truth lies somewhere in between these two positions. I certainly don't see how dealing with courteous people is a "right".

[johndpoole]

If you want a good idea on what the Thai mindset is go look at one of those soi dogs who sleeps right in the middle of a walkway or in front of a 7-11 while the sliding glass doors open to blow air onto them. Thais will 99% of the time step over the dog and into the store. The reason why the dog does this is because it has been conditioned over time to learn that they can do this without getting punted out of the way. Thai people do similar things with each other and it's generally not a big deal.

Farang just need to relax because not everything is some personal affront. If you want to know what Thais consider rude then it's loudness and arrogance which is something that western tourists bring in abundance when they come to Thailand.

But if you happen to kick the dog while stepping over they move but they Thai doesn't.

[johndpoole]

Okay, I am done with this topic because it seems like I have got into bashing Thai ways and some folks here have made some great points about what westerner's do that are understandably rude but many of us may be unaware of such as pointing with your feet.

But I do believe that some issues go beyond culture and rudeness here and go beyond disrespect and at some point Thais need to learn to speak up for their personal rights, space and specifically the safety of children. NOTHING will change the below figures unlesss consequences are enforced and that begins with people speaking thier mind and not just accepting ... "it is the Thai Way" because these are human right issues.

FROM 2007

The statistics released by the PHM stated that motorcycle accidents was one of the leading causes of deaths among Thais in 2005 with 159,867 severely injured and 9,877 killed. In 2006 - 164,836 were seriously injured and 8,908 were killed. Road and transport accidents were the second major cause of deaths among children after drowning, with 65% of the road accident deaths involved children as motorcycle passengers.

[IanForbes]

I've said it before: I've found that Thai's are unable to understand the concept of causing inconvenience to others. Whenever it happens (often) all you get is a blank stare of incomprehension.

That pretty much covers it in a nutshell. Parking personal vehicles and blocking other vehicles, or whole lanes of traffic is another common practise... just so the Thai person doesn't have to walk an extra 100 feet from a logical place to park. It's just one of the many inconveniences of living in Thailand. I can live with that because the good outweighs the bad for my personal life style. Of course, I don't have to earn a living in a time constricted society. I don't have to be anywhere at a specific time. If I did then the inconsiderate people would bother me more.

[bravia69]

Another good thing to do when visiting or even living in other countries that have different views and attitudes to those of your home country, is to leave your Western views and attitudes in the West. You are, after all, a guest in another country!

Always remember, the bigger the expectation, the greater the disappointment.