Red Shirts Shot Themselves In The Foot?

[whistleblower]

After seeing this farce of donating blood to throw and the rantings of not only throwing poo, but seperating it into male/female/third sex poo coupled with the black magic rituals and curses that have been thrown about, only goes to show in my opinion that these uneducated buffoons who will do anything if they are paid, need to be controlled by the so called 'educated elite' If they werent, god knows where they would lead the country!!!

[TallForeigner]

I would not be so sure about that.

As evidenced by the outrage of people like you and from the coverage by the national and international media I feel that the stunt is very effective. People are talking about it and that's exactly what the Reds want and need. The worst thing for them is being forgotten. Their symbolic act is something that raises the attention of the masses not only in Thailand and many want to know the answer to why they are doing it. Now imagine putting a strong spin behind it and it can be a winner for the Red. No matter whether good or bad - the people are talking about it everywhere.

The people that are against the Reds will find hundreds of reasons why this is a stupid idea, the people that are strongly in favor of the reds will understand, encourage and appreciate it and the majority will not care very much. The reaction to the blood splattering will polarize more people and that's again what they need.

Don't flame me for taking the Red's side by claiming their stunt is effective; I'm not a friend of such groups (I would rather see the no-shirts than the yellow, blue, red or green shirts..) - I just try to take an objective viewpoint here.

[needforspeed]

I would not be so sure about that.

As evidenced by the outrage of people like you and from the coverage by the national and international media I feel that the stunt is very effective. People are talking about it and that's exactly what the Reds want and need. The worst thing for them is being forgotten. Their symbolic act is something that raises the attention of the masses not only in Thailand and many want to know the answer to why they are doing it. Now imagine putting a strong spin behind it and it can be a winner for the Red. No matter whether good or bad - the people are talking about it everywhere.

The people that are against the Reds will find hundreds of reasons why this is a stupid idea, the people that are strongly in favor of the reds will understand, encourage and appreciate it and the majority will not care very much. The reaction to the blood splattering will polarize more people and that's again what they need.

Don't flame me for taking the Red's side by claiming their stunt is effective; I'm not a friend of such groups (I would rather see the no-shirts than the yellow, blue, red or green shirts..) - I just try to take an objective viewpoint here.

Agree , but they had the same and more positive publicity if they donated the blood

[colinscarr]

The 'uneducated buffoons' are the product of successive governments' failure to invest in education. Now the elites are to some extent being bitten on the bum for their (deliberate) failure.

It's a great shame the elites do not and did not have the wit to realise that a well educated populace would create a much higher GDP and, while the said elites would probably get a smaller share of the pot, they would still be at least as well off as they are now.

Look at what happened in Spain after the Franco dictatorship was overthrown. Education (amongst other things) improved and the economy expanded massively. Everyone benefitted. No this is NOT comparing the current Thai gov.t with Franco's Spain; and no, I don't admire ex premier and convicted criminal Thaksin one little bit either.

[LivinLOS]

and the rantings of not only throwing poo, but seperating it into male/female/third sex poo coupled with the black magic rituals and curses that have been thrown about

Yes nothing like the cambodian wizards, and collecting used womens tampax and sanitary pads liek the yellos did for rituals is it ??

[nakadia]

The reds get the media attention around the world... it means the world will look again at thailand and say: "look how stupid this people are!". I dont think that anyone with an education will understand the blood thing. It will just be one more reason for tourists not to go to Thailand. Thanx to both yellow and red for bringing thailand more down all the time and giving our country a bad name!

[frodo]

Thankfully, one of the red leaders has the sense to admit defeat. They had no clear goals from day one. The old PT generals, Panlop and Chavalit backed down at the last moment, stating the same thing, "It will fail."

This is great news, if true.

Siam Red leader says half of red shirts return home

Surachai Danwattananusorn, a leader of the Siam Red group, said Tuesday that about half of red-shirt people have returned home and the remaining protesters are expected to be defeated by their own fatigue in one or two days.

"Now, the government is leaving the protesters to lose strength, which it is approaching that point in one or two days and then everything will be over," Surachai said.

He said he was preparing to return home in Nakhon Si Thammarat.

He said the red-shirt trio leaders had failed in their strategy.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Siam-...m-30124807.html

[britmaveric]

Reds are doing fine!

[frodo]

Reds are doing fine!

Yup, they've accomplished absolutely nothing at all.

[maccaroni man]

I would not be so sure about that.

As evidenced by the outrage of people like you and from the coverage by the national and international media I feel that the stunt is very effective. People are talking about it and that's exactly what the Reds want and need. The worst thing for them is being forgotten. Their symbolic act is something that raises the attention of the masses not only in Thailand and many want to know the answer to why they are doing it. Now imagine putting a strong spin behind it and it can be a winner for the Red. No matter whether good or bad - the people are talking about it everywhere.

The people that are against the Reds will find hundreds of reasons why this is a stupid idea, the people that are strongly in favor of the reds will understand, encourage and appreciate it and the majority will not care very much. The reaction to the blood splattering will polarize more people and that's again what they need.

Don't flame me for taking the Red's side by claiming their stunt is effective; I'm not a friend of such groups (I would rather see the no-shirts than the yellow, blue, red or green shirts..) - I just try to take an objective viewpoint here.

this is not a flame but seriously do you think anyone can take throwing siht seperated into different bags seriously, more like a shock and aaaaah reaction, with a follow up thought of they must be some real dumb shtis.

[PoorSucker]

Not a single comment on the blood stuff in Swedish newspapers.

[TAWP]

Not a single comment on the blood stuff in Swedish newspapers.

There is now: http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/protester...ngkok-1.1061901

[Indo-Siam]

The leadership of the Reds has totally flopped - categorically, from the start to the end.

The blood stunt sealed the fate of this event as a total farce.

The next time they try to pull together a mob for the "This is the real, real, real, last, last, last and final, final final, push to pull down the government" event, I don't think anyone will sign up.

The government performed masterfully over the past week - much better than I would have predicted.

I think it is about this time, for the Red Shirts (and Mr. T):

[up-country_sinclair]

I don't know if it was the blood idea that broke them, or if they were broken before they tried it. But either way, the reds chances of instituting change before the next scheduled election are over.

Edited March 16, 2010 by up-country_sinclair

[Netfan]

The 'uneducated buffoons' are the product of successive governments' failure to invest in education. Now the elites are to some extent being bitten on the bum for their (deliberate) failure.

It's a great shame the elites do not and did not have the wit to realise that a well educated populace would create a much higher GDP and, while the said elites would probably get a smaller share of the pot, they would still be at least as well off as they are now.

Look at what happened in Spain after the Franco dictatorship was overthrown. Education (amongst other things) improved and the economy expanded massively. Everyone benefitted. No this is NOT comparing the current Thai gov.t with Franco's Spain; and no, I don't admire ex premier and convicted criminal Thaksin one little bit either.

Yes, but why didn't the TRT. PPP do something about education when they were in charge? They had 5 years with the largest majority possible. Because they are crooks who don't care any more for the welfare of the Isaan people than the "elite" they keep attacking.

Its a shame the people of Isaan have been taken advantage of the way they have. They have legitimate complaints. But the current government has had to spend most of its energy dealing with Red leaders trying to overthrow it instead of working with them to improve lives. Lets see what happens in 2010 and 2011 leading up to the scheduled elections. Hopefully the more progressive (if there are any) Thai politicians took notice that there are things that need doing to improve the lives of their citizens.

[givenall]

Reds are doing fine!

Yup, they've accomplished absolutely nothing at all.

So they achived there goal. Go home now

[Ulysses G.]

The redshirts attracted a very large number of rural poor to Bangkok. They had violence free protests for several days (despite all the bitter creeps that were hoping otherwise) and the sympathetic world media presented them as downtrodden heroes just fighting for a chance in life. All they have to do now is not blow it and return home.

But yes, the peanut gallery at Thai Visa are as right as they usually are, the redshirts have failed dismally.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Phuket Stan]

The 'uneducated buffoons' are the product of successive governments' failure to invest in education. Now the elites are to some extent being bitten on the bum for their (deliberate) failure.

It's a great shame the elites do not and did not have the wit to realise that a well educated populace would create a much higher GDP and, while the said elites would probably get a smaller share of the pot, they would still be at least as well off as they are now.

Look at what happened in Spain after the Franco dictatorship was overthrown. Education (amongst other things) improved and the economy expanded massively. Everyone benefitted. No this is NOT comparing the current Thai gov.t with Franco's Spain; and no, I don't admire ex premier and convicted criminal Thaksin one little bit either.

Yes, but why didn't the TRT. PPP do something about education when they were in charge? They had 5 years with the largest majority possible. Because they are crooks who don't care any more for the welfare of the Isaan people than the "elite" they keep attacking.

Its a shame the people of Isaan have been taken advantage of the way they have. They have legitimate complaints. But the current government has had to spend most of its energy dealing with Red leaders trying to overthrow it instead of working with them to improve lives. Lets see what happens in 2010 and 2011 leading up to the scheduled elections. Hopefully the more progressive (if there are any) Thai politicians took notice that there are things that need doing to improve the lives of their citizens.

Thaksin did something about education when he was in power....he had one of his minions unseal the exam papers before Thaksin's daughter's sat the exam....u do the maths

[Cayenne]

The 'uneducated buffoons' are the product of successive governments' failure to invest in education. Now the elites are to some extent being bitten on the bum for their (deliberate) failure.

It's a great shame the elites do not and did not have the wit to realise that a well educated populace would create a much higher GDP and, while the said elites would probably get a smaller share of the pot, they would still be at least as well off as they are now.

Look at what happened in Spain after the Franco dictatorship was overthrown. Education (amongst other things) improved and the economy expanded massively. Everyone benefitted. No this is NOT comparing the current Thai gov.t with Franco's Spain; and no, I don't admire ex premier and convicted criminal Thaksin one little bit either.

Yes, but why didn't the TRT. PPP do something about education when they were in charge? They had 5 years with the largest majority possible. Because they are crooks who don't care any more for the welfare of the Isaan people than the "elite" they keep attacking.

Its a shame the people of Isaan have been taken advantage of the way they have. They have legitimate complaints. But the current government has had to spend most of its energy dealing with Red leaders trying to overthrow it instead of working with them to improve lives. Lets see what happens in 2010 and 2011 leading up to the scheduled elections. Hopefully the more progressive (if there are any) Thai politicians took notice that there are things that need doing to improve the lives of their citizens.

Thaksin did something about education when he was in power....he had one of his minions unseal the exam papers before Thaksin's daughter's sat the exam....u do the maths

The Red shirt's response to this would be, "look we've set up 400+ Democracy schools in Thailand to educate people about democracy!"

[scorecard]

I would not be so sure about that.

As evidenced by the outrage of people like you and from the coverage by the national and international media I feel that the stunt is very effective. People are talking about it and that's exactly what the Reds want and need. The worst thing for them is being forgotten. Their symbolic act is something that raises the attention of the masses not only in Thailand and many want to know the answer to why they are doing it. Now imagine putting a strong spin behind it and it can be a winner for the Red. No matter whether good or bad - the people are talking about it everywhere.

The people that are against the Reds will find hundreds of reasons why this is a stupid idea, the people that are strongly in favor of the reds will understand, encourage and appreciate it and the majority will not care very much. The reaction to the blood splattering will polarize more people and that's again what they need.

Don't flame me for taking the Red's side by claiming their stunt is effective; I'm not a friend of such groups (I would rather see the no-shirts than the yellow, blue, red or green shirts..) - I just try to take an objective viewpoint here.

Don't agree at all. I suggest there's a stop step reaction:

- Many people, when they see this on TV, in the newspapers etc., will look / read because it's bizarre, it's way outside the boundaries of what most of us have learned is 'normal' (whatever normal means).

- Then many of those who look / read will form an opinion that this is stupid and the actions of idiots.

Unfortunately some of the 'mud' sticks, and downgrades the image of Thailand.

[scorecard]

The 'uneducated buffoons' are the product of successive governments' failure to invest in education. Now the elites are to some extent being bitten on the bum for their (deliberate) failure.

It's a great shame the elites do not and did not have the wit to realise that a well educated populace would create a much higher GDP and, while the said elites would probably get a smaller share of the pot, they would still be at least as well off as they are now.

Look at what happened in Spain after the Franco dictatorship was overthrown. Education (amongst other things) improved and the economy expanded massively. Everyone benefitted. No this is NOT comparing the current Thai gov.t with Franco's Spain; and no, I don't admire ex premier and convicted criminal Thaksin one little bit either.

Yes, but why didn't the TRT. PPP do something about education when they were in charge? They had 5 years with the largest majority possible. Because they are crooks who don't care any more for the welfare of the Isaan people than the "elite" they keep attacking.

Its a shame the people of Isaan have been taken advantage of the way they have. They have legitimate complaints. But the current government has had to spend most of its energy dealing with Red leaders trying to overthrow it instead of working with them to improve lives. Lets see what happens in 2010 and 2011 leading up to the scheduled elections. Hopefully the more progressive (if there are any) Thai politicians took notice that there are things that need doing to improve the lives of their citizens.

Thaksin did something about education when he was in power....he had one of his minions unseal the exam papers before Thaksin's daughter's sat the exam....u do the maths

There was also behind the scenes 'activity' at a certain downtown Thai uni., to change some admision rules just before she applied for admission.

Also, at one point, thaksin, in his grand manor, appointed himself to be the Minister for Education and (like his six months guarantee to totally fix the Bangkok traffic problems which failed totally) he pronounced that he would totally change education. A few months later, after achieving nothing whatever, he removed himself from this posiiton and appointed another incapable old style politician who had no knowledge whatever about the subject.

[scorecard]

Reds are doing fine!

Sure they are fine, they all went home to make som tum and enjoy their local village life.

[scorecard]

The 'uneducated buffoons' are the product of successive governments' failure to invest in education. Now the elites are to some extent being bitten on the bum for their (deliberate) failure.

It's a great shame the elites do not and did not have the wit to realise that a well educated populace would create a much higher GDP and, while the said elites would probably get a smaller share of the pot, they would still be at least as well off as they are now.

Look at what happened in Spain after the Franco dictatorship was overthrown. Education (amongst other things) improved and the economy expanded massively. Everyone benefitted. No this is NOT comparing the current Thai gov.t with Franco's Spain; and no, I don't admire ex premier and convicted criminal Thaksin one little bit either.

Yes, but why didn't the TRT. PPP do something about education when they were in charge? They had 5 years with the largest majority possible. Because they are crooks who don't care any more for the welfare of the Isaan people than the "elite" they keep attacking.

Its a shame the people of Isaan have been taken advantage of the way they have. They have legitimate complaints. But the current government has had to spend most of its energy dealing with Red leaders trying to overthrow it instead of working with them to improve lives. Lets see what happens in 2010 and 2011 leading up to the scheduled elections. Hopefully the more progressive (if there are any) Thai politicians took notice that there are things that need doing to improve the lives of their citizens.

Quote from first section above:

"It's a great shame the elites do not and did not have the wit to realise that a well educated populace would create a much higher GDP and, while the said elites would probably get a smaller share of the pot, they would still be at least as well off as they are now."

This comment is way off reality. The past governments (going back 10, 20, 30, maybe 40 years) were made up of ruthless incapable leeches and thugs and a quite sizeable percentage of these politicians (read thieves) were from country based parties and/or city based parties with large following in the rural areas.

These words 'elites' / 'Bangkok elites' is a newly manufactured spin word to create a mr. nasty, and we should all be very careful that we don't fall into the trap which has been laid by thaksins spin doctors.

Back to my first paragraph, the past incapable leeches and thieves ('politicians'), basically from all the parties, mostly bought their way into 'old boys clubs' to get access to the spoils, and there are just as many rural politicians as there are city politicians in these 'clubs'. The vast majority were unscrupulous insincere incapable people with no morals who had no hesitation whatever, often openly, to steal from their fellow Thais, often hundreds of millions of Baht.

Just take a look at the upcountry 'politicians' and many 'pooyai baan' (village chiefs), the vast majority of them, supposedly there to represent the interests of their local villagers did nothing whatever for decades to improve infrastructure, nothing whatever to create work opportunity, nothing whatever to improve education etc etc. And at the same time continuously, and often openly, stole massive amounts of funds from budgets for rural roads, etc etc.

Take a focused tour around many provinces of Essan and check out the house etc., of the old style politicians and many of the pooyai baan (village chiefs), and you will see:

- Very large luxurious houses

- Numerous expensive vehicles

- Children, in many cases, have studies abroad (very expensive)

- Own large amounts of land, often bought from farmers at very cheap prices and then rented back

to the same farmers at exorbetant rates.

- Also, there are many cases where these thieves encouraged the poor to get into more and more debt which they had no hope ever of paying off. Servitude comes to mind.

- And they treat the staff at their luxurious homes, their own local village people, like sh-it.

And they achieved their ill gotten wealth though manipulating the poor and the niave. How low can you get!

So please don't harp on about the elites, which implies Bangkok people, the blame for lack of development (which is quite true) lies with just as many rural thieves as it does with city thieves.

However there is some good news, PM Abhisit and Khun Korn have already laid out a path to, as quickly as possible, try to redress some of this and get to a much better sharing of the wealth, improve the quality of life, improve education, etc.

I hope you have also noticed that PM Abhisit is getting tougher and tougher regarding corruption and he's even removed people from his own party from high positions (unheard of in the past), and he's progressively getting tougher and demanding accountability from the police etc., also unheard of in the past.

Edited March 16, 2010 by scorecard

[anotherpeter]

The 'uneducated buffoons' are the product of successive governments' failure to invest in education. Now the elites are to some extent being bitten on the bum for their (deliberate) failure.

It's a great shame the elites do not and did not have the wit to realise that a well educated populace would create a much higher GDP and, while the said elites would probably get a smaller share of the pot, they would still be at least as well off as they are now.

Look at what happened in Spain after the Franco dictatorship was overthrown. Education (amongst other things) improved and the economy expanded massively. Everyone benefitted. No this is NOT comparing the current Thai gov.t with Franco's Spain; and no, I don't admire ex premier and convicted criminal Thaksin one little bit either.

I think what some people forget is that in Spain (and England and other places where the poor and uneducated were persecuted), the education of the uneducated took several generations, and in a lot of places there are still the same problems (but to a lesser extent).

There are more oppurtunities in Thailand for the poor to get educated now than there was 50 years ago. This isn't all because of Thaksin. Personally, I don't know what he has really done. I have heard lots of stories about what he has done, but sometimes when I ask for specifics they end up saying that they haven't actually seen what he has done.

But whoever did it, and whoever does it in the future, people won't be educated overnight. It will still take generations.

Edited March 16, 2010 by anotherpeter

[anotherpeter]

Quote from first section above:

"It's a great shame the elites do not and did not have the wit to realise that a well educated populace would create a much higher GDP and, while the said elites would probably get a smaller share of the pot, they would still be at least as well off as they are now."

This comment is way off reality. The past governments (going back 10, 20, 30, maybe 40 years) were made up of ruthless incapable leeches and thugs and a quite sizeable percentage of these politicians (read thieves) were from country based parties and/or city based parties with large following in the rural areas.

These words 'elites' / 'Bangkok elites' is a newly manufactured spin word to create a mr. nasty, and we should all be very careful that we don't fall into the trap which has been laid by thaksins spin doctors.

Back to my first paragraph, the past incapable leeches and thieves ('politicians'), basically from all the parties, mostly bought their way into 'old boys clubs' to get access to the spoils, and there are just as many rural politicians as there are city politicians in these 'clubs'. The vast majority were unscrupulous insincere incapable people with no morals who had no hesitation whatever, often openly, to steal from their fellow Thais, often hundreds of millions of Baht.

Just take a look at the upcountry 'politicians' and many 'pooyai baan' (village chiefs), the vast majority of them, supposedly there to represent the interests of their local villagers did nothing whatever for decades to improve infrastructure, nothing whatever to create work opportunity, nothing whatever to improve education etc etc. And at the same time continuously, and often openly, stole massive amounts of funds from budgets for rural roads, etc etc.

Take a focused tour around many provinces of Essan and check out the house etc., of the old style politicians and many of the pooyai baan (village chiefs), and you will see:

- Very large luxurious houses

- Numerous expensive vehicles

- Children, in many cases, have studies abroad (very expensive)

- Own large amounts of land, often bought from farmers at very cheap prices and then rented back

to the same farmers at exorbetant rates.

- Also, there are many cases where these thieves encouraged the poor to get into more and more debt which they had no hope ever of paying off. Servitude comes to mind.

- And they treat the staff at their luxurious homes, their own local village people, like sh-it.

And they achieved their ill gotten wealth though manipulating the poor and the niave. How low can you get!

So please don't harp on about the elites, which implies Bangkok people, the blame for lack of development (which is quite true) lies with just as many rural thieves as it does with city thieves.

However there is some good news, PM Abhisit and Khun Korn have already laid out a path to, as quickly as possible, try to redress some of this and get to a much better sharing of the wealth, improve the quality of life, improve education, etc.

I hope you have also noticed that PM Abhisit is getting tougher and tougher regarding corruption and he's even removed people from his own party from high positions (unheard of in the past), and he's progressively getting tougher and demanding accountability from the police etc., also unheard of in the past.

You've hit the nail on the head.

It isn't (just) the 'elites' in Bangkok that are making money off the poor farmers. It is often the rural 'elites' that are ripping them off.

[old wanderer]

The question....Have the Red Shirts shot themselves in the foot?

You have to remember the movement is not a grass-roots movement, but a movement being financed by a person trying to get back a fortune he lost, an X wife facing 3 years in prison, who is awaiting an appeal, and he is subject to atleast 15 criminal cases once he is in the country and arrained.

Most of what we just saw were taking people that are doing little or nothing during this season, loading them on paid trucks, and paying them for their time.

Do the Northern Issan people love Thaskin...yes they do....but they have neither the money, education, nor motivation to take over the country.

A great example of what happens when you empower these types of people is Zimbabwe...Rodesia use to be the most productive country in Africa, but some bleeding hearts in Britian and the USA decided the uneducated masses should be empowered. So the country was forced into a "demecratic" election, and you can see how well this change worked out for them....80% unemployment, 12,000% anual inflation, nothing is produced or exported any longer.

My wife of 14 years comes from a very small village in Issan. She is the only anti-Thaskin person from that village that we are aware of. She has had more than a few very noisy discussions with neighbors and family about this. Her mother is absolutly convinced that Thaskin personally paid to have the road paved that passes through their village. Hard to overcome ignorance and predjudice.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Does it matter if he personally paid for it? He respected them enough to get budgets assigned to get rural development projects done, where decades before there was just mud & dust. That's *a lot* more than any previous government did for them.

Edited March 16, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[old wanderer]

Does it matter if he personally paid for it? He respected them enough to get budgets assigned to get rural development projects done, where decades before there was just mud & dust. That's *a lot* more than any previous government did for them.

Yes it does matter just like the vote buying matters...

If indeed Thaskin was a real leader, why is he not here leading, instead at some resort in Motanegro? Why did his family and relitives all flee the country?

So does it matter if the Mafia gives money to the church, or to schools???? After all it is just money...and it does so much good...However there is always a price to be paid.

I know of dozens of people that took the easy credit, when the Thaskin government made it available, bought turcks, whiskey, and a few mia noi, never thinking about how to pay it back...When that land was taken for the loans not paid,,,who ultimatly made the profit...(I'll give you a hint...it was not a person in Thailand).

[britmaveric]

And vote buying continues today by all political parties, so what is your point?

[anotherpeter]

And vote buying continues today by all political parties, so what is your point?

The point is the rest of the post.

"I know of dozens of people that took the easy credit, when the Thaskin government made it available, bought turcks, whiskey, and a few mia noi, never thinking about how to pay it back...When that land was taken for the loans not paid,,,who ultimatly made the profit...(I'll give you a hint...it was not a person in Thailand)."

Thaksin made easy credit available, and the cronies (rural "elite") made a fortune out of it.