Dwindling Thai Protesters Bid To Keep Up Spirits

[scorecard]

They say now that they are now conducting a 'class war'.

That's just a smoke screen for their real aim. Here's my take.

Ultimately it's still all about getting thaksin back in the drivers seat and all for their own benefit.

Earlier this week they claimed it was all about PM Abhisit dissolving the house immediately. There are in fact good reasons why they want it now:

1...PM Abhisit and his main democrat partner K. Korn are doing quite well and have laid out

framework to, as fast as possible, get a better sharing of the wealth of Thailand for all Thais,

ensure the quality of life for Thai people, especially those on the lower end of the income scale is

much better, improve education massively to ensure all Thais have better opportunities in life,

and more.

2...PM Abhisit's personal rating, also K. Korn, are quite high.

3...The government as a whole is getting good ratings.

4...The economy is doing well and forecasts for growth are quite good, and much better than

anybody expected.

5...The various chambers of commerce are very happy with the governments performance and very

happy all round with the growth and health of business and the economy.

6. The stock exchange is looking good, and the Baht is in fact strong given the recent political

events.

So, right now there is every reason to believe that the public at large would in fact not want a change in government and this sentiment is quite likely to grow even stronger over the next few months and into next year. Therefore there would be very little pressure from the public for a dissolution or pressure for Ahbisit to go.

Additionally, given the good performance the coalition partners are not likely to want to jump ship when the economy is good and that also means the likely hood of bigger spending budgets.

Additionally, the coalition partners are not likely to jump ship and bring down a government which is doing well, they would be quite frightened of the public backlash against them at a subsequent election.

The coalition partners are also quite frightened about their survival (in their present form) if there was an election and PT won a lot seats, PT would probably not ask whole parties (meaning the present coalition parties) to join them, but they would probably ask large numbers of selected members of these parties to join them. In other words, they would destroy the current parties to the point where they would disappear.

Now, here's another interesting point (actually read laughable):

A Quote from one of Webfact's ongoing reports earlier today"

"The Red Shirts are not refusing to negotiate but the prime minister has to dissolve the house first and all parties have to sign a pact saying they will respect the result of elections so the country can move ahead," Red Shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan told the crowd.

In other words they are trying to set up a situation whereby, if an election was held, there can be no scrutiny of any aspect of the ballot activity. In other words, claims of vote buying are not allowed.

You think Abhisit would agree to that? Of course not, in fact he would be derelict if he did. But overriding that, it would probaby be illegal for Abhisit to sign such an agreement, becaue it would attempt to override a specifc electoral law of Thailand. This would be making a mockery of respect for the law, etc., and simply not legal.

What a laugh.

Edited March 19, 2010 by scorecard

[khunjamespittman]

What a joke. The Reds claim to represent a majority of Thais, yet can only muster 10% of the promised attendance in their invasion of Bangkok.

Maybe not a majority at this time, but certainly a plurality as the past elections have shown. We can't change the facts.

..

Good that the red can't change the facts!

... and it is good, that Taxin and his few friends can not buy all of the poor in the north anymore.

May a first, good step in the direction of taxins defeat!? .

Just in case you didn't know! A plurality wins.

Regards,

[thaihome]

Just in case you didn't know! A plurality wins.

Regards,

Not in a parliamentary form a government. A majority wins, even if one of the opposition parties won the plurality

TH

[jdinasia]

Just in case you didn't know! A plurality wins.

Regards,

In case you hadn't noticed, not only has that "plurality" failed and now rests with the Democrats, but the democrats themselves are getting stronger daily while Thaksin's reds are getting more desperate and the poor of the country are starting to see real benefits from someone not out to screw them.

Thaksin's reds have lost all his allies that are in fact the political machines that have existed for decades in rural NE and N Thailand. One can assume that they won't be going back to Thaksin as there are no real benefits to be had there any more. Thaksin is no longer immune from prosecution for his crimes the way he appeared to be in the early years of TRT and even the villagers are aware of his thefts etc by this point.

I hope that the poor of N and NE Thailand actually do form a real political party and push for real reform! I think we can all see that following Thaksin and his fellow regional "elite" certainly only damaged the cause of the rural poor in Thailand!

Since Thaksin continues his funding (although on a more limited budget) and his call-ins and his insane rantings it is obvious to most of the people that this current Rally was just about him and nothing else. Meaning to defend THIS rally or this group of reds with the current leaders is in fact to be a Thaksin lackey!

[way2muchcoffee]

What a joke. The Reds claim to represent a majority of Thais, yet can only muster 10% of the promised attendance in their invasion of Bangkok.

Maybe not a majority at this time, but certainly a plurality as the past elections have shown. We can't change the facts.

Please tell me what the correlation of having 10% of any population to travel several hundred miles with continued escalating rhetoric about police and government actions against them and what ever your point is. I got lost.

Thanks.

Clearly you did get lost.

!0% of the promised numbers turned out, not 10% of the population.

Have a shower.

Oh I see! I appologize. My mistake I assumed that you were knowledgeable of set theory. In this case the population is the total number of reds.

What I didn't understand is how this fact relates to anything else. That leap is not explainable.

So James, it appears you are asserting that the total population of reds is 1,000,000. That is about 1.5% of the population of Thailand. Perhaps you should report your findings to the red leaders and their cheerleaders here at TV as your numbers are seriously at odds with their claims.

Edited March 19, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[khunjamespittman]

Clearly you did get lost.

!0% of the promised numbers turned out, not 10% of the population.

Have a shower.

Oh I see! I appologize. My mistake I assumed that you were knowledgeable of set theory. In this case the population is the total number of reds.

What I didn't understand is how this fact relates to anything else. That leap is not explainable.

Nice try primary school man.

Particularly as the million was a made up figure.

Don't buy it.

One last try!

I agree that the 1 million number was probably chosen as an attention grabber. I agree that there is probably enough credible data to create the number. I accept your 10% attenance rate.

Having put together a few not so large gatherings I can tell you that there is no real way to insure that size of a gathering estimate is accurate. Three things must be done to try to achieve an attendance: 1. get early commitment of attendance 2. pay attendees fee ahead of time to insure attendees do not have out of pocket expense 3. confirm arrival and if the attendee does not arrive require a stiff penalty be paid. In the best of circumstances 50% of attendance estimate is good.

Now that I have agree to all that. There is no conclusion that can be derived from the 10% attendance rate execpt the fact itself.

Any conclusion that is reached other that the attendance fact is implausible. Is not possible to explain such a leap.

I'm not asking you to buy anything. It is just Logic 101, plain and simple, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise.

[way2muchcoffee]

One last try!

I agree that the 1 million number was probably chosen as an attention grabber. I agree that there is probably enough credible data to create the number. I accept your 10% attenance rate.

Having put together a few not so large gatherings I can tell you that there is no real way to insure that size of a gathering estimate is accurate. Three things must be done to try to achieve an attendance: 1. get early commitment of attendance 2. pay attendees fee ahead of time to insure attendees do not have out of pocket expense 3. confirm arrival and if the attendee does not arrive require a stiff penalty be paid. In the best of circumstances 50% of attendance estimate is good.

Now that I have agree to all that. There is no conclusion that can be derived from the 10% attendance rate execpt the fact itself.

Any conclusion that is reached other that the attendance fact is implausible. Is not possible to explain such a leap.

I'm not asking you to buy anything. It is just Logic 101, plain and simple, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise.

There is one very obvious conclusion to be made here. The red leaders seriously underestimated the number of people willing to go to BKK to support their cause.

[Netfan]

^^ as well as the support they would get in bangkok. considering there are 10,000,000 folks in the big city, not many of them showed any support.

[animatic]

Juatupromn will negotiate of you give him what he wants FIRST.

Then of what's to negotiate... he's such a illogical PRAT.

[siampolee]

Juatupron !!!

''Some have greatness thrust upon them, others get it thrust up them''

[CLOD]

Excellent effort from the REDS, that is the "Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters".

Really does have a credible ring about it, eh , especially when compared to the gruby little unelected, elite, abisit military junta government with appointed judiciary in tow, and trampling all over peoples democratic process..

Bring on an election, bring back democracy, thats what the "Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters " say.

[bulmercke]

Excellent effort from the REDS, that is the "Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters".

Really does have a credible ring about it, eh , especially when compared to the gruby little unelected, elite, abisit military junta government with appointed judiciary in tow, and trampling all over peoples democratic process..

Bring on an election, bring back democracy, thats what the "Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters " say.

Seconded. (I realise CLOD is being sarcastic) This government isn't democratically elected and Abhisit is nothing more than a puppet to the military that really rules this country.

In my soi there are men and women with families slaving away - forty-six hours++ a week - in sweat shops while their employers reap extravagant profits at their expense. Its always been this way and the odinary Thai wants change. I can see their point of view.

Edited March 19, 2010 by bulmercke

[Insight]

Excellent effort from the REDS, that is the "Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters".

Really does have a credible ring about it, eh , especially when compared to the gruby little unelected, elite, abisit military junta government with appointed judiciary in tow, and trampling all over peoples democratic process..

Bring on an election, bring back democracy, thats what the "Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters " say.

Seconded. This government isn't democratically elected and Abhisit is nothing more than a puppet to the military that really rules this country.

In my soi there are men and women with families slaving away - forty-six hours++ a week - in sweat shops while their employers reap extravagant profits at their expense. Its always been this way and the odinary Thai wants change. I can see their point of view.

Will you switch again when Thaksin returns to power, bulmercke?

[animatic]

Randomly Embroiling Disruptive SNAFU

Reactionary Embittered Dissident Stooges

Really Erratic Denial Syndrome

Risky Exasperating Dangerous Shambling

Oh my gosh acronyms... what a rebranding concept!

[IvanDobsky]

Readily Excited During Staged events

Rudely Eased and Duped into Stupidity

Remotely Excitingly Delved into Sarcasm

Robotics? Easy! Determined, Steve...

off topic!

Randomly Embroiling Disruptive SNAFU

Reactionary Embittered Dissident Stooges

Really Erratic Denial Syndrome

Risky Exasperating Dangerous Shambling

Oh my gosh acronyms... what a rebranding concept!

[CLOD]

Readily Excited During Staged events

Rudely Eased and Duped into Stupidity

Remotely Excitingly Delved into Sarcasm

Robotics? Easy! Determined, Steve...

off topic!

Randomly Embroiling Disruptive SNAFU

Reactionary Embittered Dissident Stooges

Really Erratic Denial Syndrome

Risky Exasperating Dangerous Shambling

Oh my gosh acronyms... what a rebranding concept!

Whatever your take you have to hand it to the reds on this effort to restore democracy.

The REDS...( Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters...... ) everyone a winner.

Speaks for itself (themselves).

[animatic]

We need hand the Reds nothing in way of foolish congratulations.

Democracy is taking it's legislated course and normal time frame,

regardless of Red provocations to benefit their liege lord Thaksin.

And regardless of repeated attempts to hide the core purpose of the movement and it's financier.

[animatic]

Excellent effort from the REDS, that is the "Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters".

Really does have a credible ring about it, eh , especially when compared to the gruby little unelected, elite, abisit military junta government with appointed judiciary in tow, and trampling all over peoples democratic process..

Bring on an election, bring back democracy, thats what the "Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters " say.

Seconded. (I realise CLOD is being sarcastic) This government isn't democratically elected and Abhisit is nothing more than a puppet to the military that really rules this country.

In my soi there are men and women with families slaving away - forty-six hours++ a week - in sweat shops while their employers reap extravagant profits at their expense. Its always been this way and the odinary Thai wants change. I can see their point of view.

Oh clot is not being sarcastic, it's pretty clear he believes this stuff.

As in true believer... and all the baggage that goes with that monomania, sad to say.

The only time CLOD posted this crap this week as AFTER the rally,

so quite likely clumping about AT the rallies, then returned for more PR work,

twisting minds to Thaksins game plan...

Rebranding Reds and slandering Dems for the masters game plan.

Edited March 20, 2010 by animatic

[Cayenne]

My maid just returned from the rally last night. She didn't want to tell me before going because she knew what I would say about this matter. She was paid 3,000 baht to go there from 6pm to midnight and the process was pretty much straightforward- she was introduced to a "section leader" by her friends who took down her ID card and house registration number. If you lived in Bangkok via house registration or other proof, you will be given 3,000 baht but if you were from outside BKK, you were given considerably less- 2,000 baht or so (geez, they actually discriminate against rural red shirts )

Once on the rally ground, she was not allowed to sit for more than 5 minutes at a time and could not leave the site either as she had to be in line of sight of the section leader. Her role was basically to clap and shout whenever people were on stage and she admitted that most of the things they said were pretty hateful stuff and she definitely didn't agree with most of what they said as she had already believed Thaksin is a criminal. At the stroke of midnight she got paid 3,000 baht via banknotes being slipped under box meals.

So this is what red democracy has ended up being...one big charade with paid actors and actresses.

[ivowatson]

In my soi there are men and women with families slaving away - forty-six hours++ a week -

They have to pay service charge and VAT on top of that!? That's a disgrace! Now I understand they hate Abbhisit. I bet he uses that money to watch porn everyday. In fact, someone told me he's addicted to about everything. You better believe me; it's really, really, really true.

[Sunderland]

I don't doubt that some people get paid and if they were uniformly paying 3,000 baht to Bangkokians for 6 hours attendance at an evening rally, then I think they will get their 'million man march' without delay. However, I very much doubt that a simple maid is being 3,000 baht to attend a rally.

The many people who came out to cheer the red convoy on the streets in Bangkok are paid to walk out their office or place of employment. Oh well, I saw it with my own eyes, so I believe that there is more support on the streets for the anti-government movement than many others are willing to accept.

I know of a group of teachers where I work who have been to the main rally site 3 times this week in the evening. Why did they go? Well, they are curious and don't trust in Abhisit. They are not big fans of Thaksin either, but they do not believe that the present government represents the majority's interests and they would like to see improved rights for the poor, who they do not consider themselves to be.

[Insight]

My maid just returned from the rally last night. She didn't want to tell me before going because she knew what I would say about this matter. She was paid 3,000 baht to go there from 6pm to midnight and the process was pretty much straightforward- she was introduced to a "section leader" by her friends who took down her ID card and house registration number. If you lived in Bangkok via house registration or other proof, you will be given 3,000 baht but if you were from outside BKK, you were given considerably less- 2,000 baht or so (geez, they actually discriminate against rural red shirts )

Once on the rally ground, she was not allowed to sit for more than 5 minutes at a time and could not leave the site either as she had to be in line of sight of the section leader. Her role was basically to clap and shout whenever people were on stage and she admitted that most of the things they said were pretty hateful stuff and she definitely didn't agree with most of what they said as she had already believed Thaksin is a criminal. At the stroke of midnight she got paid 3,000 baht via banknotes being slipped under box meals.

So this is what red democracy has ended up being...one big charade with paid actors and actresses.

Thanks for the report Cayenne - this is worthy of its own topic IMHO.

I'm finding some of the international media reports on this rally embarrassing.

[ThaksinKharma]

The many people who came out to cheer the red convoy on the streets in Bangkok are paid to walk out their office or place of employment. Oh well, I saw it with my own eyes, so I believe that there is more support on the streets for the anti-government movement than many others are willing to accept.

A lot of people will often turn out to see a parade of clowns when the circus is in town and enthusiastically cheer them on as they go by.

That doesn't mean they necessarily would support the same clowns if for some nutty reason they decided to hurl clown blood around town.

[ThaksinKharma]

My maid just returned from the rally last night. She didn't want to tell me before going because she knew what I would say about this matter. She was paid 3,000 baht to go there from 6pm to midnight and the process was pretty much straightforward- she was introduced to a "section leader" by her friends who took down her ID card and house registration number. If you lived in Bangkok via house registration or other proof, you will be given 3,000 baht but if you were from outside BKK, you were given considerably less- 2,000 baht or so (geez, they actually discriminate against rural red shirts )

Once on the rally ground, she was not allowed to sit for more than 5 minutes at a time and could not leave the site either as she had to be in line of sight of the section leader. Her role was basically to clap and shout whenever people were on stage and she admitted that most of the things they said were pretty hateful stuff and she definitely didn't agree with most of what they said as she had already believed Thaksin is a criminal. At the stroke of midnight she got paid 3,000 baht via banknotes being slipped under box meals.

So this is what red democracy has ended up being...one big charade with paid actors and actresses.

Thanks for the report Cayenne - this is worthy of its own topic IMHO.

I'm finding some of the international media reports on this rally embarrassing.

Another thank you also, Cayenne.

As these real-life anecdotal evidence grows one begins to see the desperation level of the instigator.

[otherstuff1957]

3000 Baht! The figures that my wife heard is 500 baht for a Thai and 1000 baht for a Farang. I turned down the offer.

[ThaksinKharma]

As these real-life anecdotal evidence grows one begins to see the desperation level of the instigator.

1000 baht for a Farang.

More real-life anecdotal evidence has the desperation level meter pegging out.

[Cayenne]

My maid just returned from the rally last night. She didn't want to tell me before going because she knew what I would say about this matter. She was paid 3,000 baht to go there from 6pm to midnight and the process was pretty much straightforward- she was introduced to a "section leader" by her friends who took down her ID card and house registration number. If you lived in Bangkok via house registration or other proof, you will be given 3,000 baht but if you were from outside BKK, you were given considerably less- 2,000 baht or so (geez, they actually discriminate against rural red shirts )

Once on the rally ground, she was not allowed to sit for more than 5 minutes at a time and could not leave the site either as she had to be in line of sight of the section leader. Her role was basically to clap and shout whenever people were on stage and she admitted that most of the things they said were pretty hateful stuff and she definitely didn't agree with most of what they said as she had already believed Thaksin is a criminal. At the stroke of midnight she got paid 3,000 baht via banknotes being slipped under box meals.

So this is what red democracy has ended up being...one big charade with paid actors and actresses.

Thanks for the report Cayenne - this is worthy of its own topic IMHO.

I'm finding some of the international media reports on this rally embarrassing.

Another thank you also, Cayenne.

As these real-life anecdotal evidence grows one begins to see the desperation level of the instigator.

I asked my maid again today if she was planning to join the rally and she said she would not as it was too hot today and she wasn't sure if she had to walk or get a ride. Maybe on Sunday but her nephew was telling her to be extra careful as he wasn't sure if it would remain violence free for the remainder of the weekend.

What was interesting is that she talked to the tofu drink vendor who also went to the same night rally she did but got only 1,500 baht. As it turns out, being in contact with the right section leader determines how much money you will get; apparently the tofu vendor's section leader was making quite a hefty profit for himself by pocketing that extra 500 baht on top of what he is already getting paid for. You can only imagine how much money the provincial section leaders are making by the time the money matriculates to the villagers (yes, even the reds are exploiting their own)

I am not judging my maid on what she did, because I can emphasize with her need to make a quick baht to support her family (she is not my full time maid as she only comes in twice a week and she needs to work at various odd jobs). She doesn't know what kind of democracy the red shirts are promoting and couldn't care less and perhaps this is the statement that saddens me the most because the image of democracy in Thailand has been reduced to who can give the biggest paycheck.

[Sunderland]

"I've just been offered 15,000 baht to do a 2 hour stint down at the rally site. I stood my ground and asked for 30,000 baht. We finally settled for 23,000 baht.

It must be true. It's here on thaivisa.com."

THE NATION

[Sunderland]

Do your own housework you lazy muppet or pay your maid a decent wage.

My maid just returned from the rally last night. She didn't want to tell me before going because she knew what I would say about this matter. She was paid 3,000 baht to go there from 6pm to midnight and the process was pretty much straightforward- she was introduced to a "section leader" by her friends who took down her ID card and house registration number. If you lived in Bangkok via house registration or other proof, you will be given 3,000 baht but if you were from outside BKK, you were given considerably less- 2,000 baht or so (geez, they actually discriminate against rural red shirts )

Once on the rally ground, she was not allowed to sit for more than 5 minutes at a time and could not leave the site either as she had to be in line of sight of the section leader. Her role was basically to clap and shout whenever people were on stage and she admitted that most of the things they said were pretty hateful stuff and she definitely didn't agree with most of what they said as she had already believed Thaksin is a criminal. At the stroke of midnight she got paid 3,000 baht via banknotes being slipped under box meals.

So this is what red democracy has ended up being...one big charade with paid actors and actresses.

Thanks for the report Cayenne - this is worthy of its own topic IMHO.

I'm finding some of the international media reports on this rally embarrassing.

Another thank you also, Cayenne.

As these real-life anecdotal evidence grows one begins to see the desperation level of the instigator.

I asked my maid again today if she was planning to join the rally and she said she would not as it was too hot today and she wasn't sure if she had to walk or get a ride. Maybe on Sunday but her nephew was telling her to be extra careful as he wasn't sure if it would remain violence free for the remainder of the weekend.

What was interesting is that she talked to the tofu drink vendor who also went to the same night rally she did but got only 1,500 baht. As it turns out, being in contact with the right section leader determines how much money you will get; apparently the tofu vendor's section leader was making quite a hefty profit for himself by pocketing that extra 500 baht on top of what he is already getting paid for. You can only imagine how much money the provincial section leaders are making by the time the money matriculates to the villagers (yes, even the reds are exploiting their own)

I am not judging my maid on what she did, because I can emphasize with her need to make a quick baht to support her family (she is not my full time maid as she only comes in twice a week and she needs to work at various odd jobs). She doesn't know what kind of democracy the red shirts are promoting and couldn't care less and perhaps this is the statement that saddens me the most because the image of democracy in Thailand has been reduced to who can give the biggest paycheck.

[brahmburgers]

You can only imagine how much money the provincial section leaders are making by the time the money matriculates to the villagers (yes, even the reds are exploiting their own)

For sure. Where can I get a position to be a section leader? Imagine if each Red section leader was given 60,000 baht in cash, and told to use it to pay people to attend the rallies, and follow the rules of standing/cheering, etc. Whether or not they're told how much to pay each attendee in their 'section', there's a big lure to put at least some of that mullah in one's pocket. Meanwhile, Thaksin is using every means possible to ferret cash in to Thailand to keep his self-aggrandizement machine oiled.

To Thais, it's not outlandish. To western outsiders, it's nuts. Imagine America's Pat Buchanan or Newt Gingrich paying their congregations to attend rallies - which were designed to garner more money and power for the individual paymasters.

....or imagine if Martin Luther King had been a billionaire, and was content to sit in a far away resort, continually funneling money to the people who were marching (for his personal interests) to Montgomery, Alabama. Bizarre.