Literacy (lack Of It)

[yesdavy]

There are two newspapers in Thailand purporting to be English language dailies, The Nation and the Bangkok Post. They are dailies, that much is accurate. English language, not exactly? English words, sort of. You must read both to be informed but struggling with English that would'nt satisfy a fifth grade teacher grates on the attention span and undermines credibility.

Either the newspapers do not know they are publishing articles by people trying to write in English who are not close to being literate--a fifth grader could tell you that--or is it that these newspapers know they are filling column inches and forum pages this way and do not care? Has to be one or the other. Which is the best scenario, not knowing or not caring? It appears that they do not care, because there have been other references to media illiteracy in individual forums.

Imagine hiring farangs to report the news in Thai and letting them invent Thai language words and spellings. Then again, that could possibly happen if the farangs would work for less than existing Thai staff.

[mark45y]

I had a friend who was an English teacher he taught his students how to spell words wrong intentionally. He got a kick out of it. Words like colour, favourite, honour, analyse, criticise, memorise, centre, metre and theatre, oh I could go on and on. He also taught them to say words like schedule and controversy in a real funny way.

Seriously though, I had a Thai teacher, well respected with a PHD tell me, “we say “ice cream”, I keem.” Why would they say “ice” in one sentence and the next say “ i”. I know they can pronounce “i”.

I think it is a healthy dose of <deleted>. They didn’t get their jobs because they were the best at what they do. They don’t care if you like it or not. You are a second class person who’s language is about as important as a fart in a windstorm. Oh, and, if English teachers in Thailand realized this they would sleep better at night.

[PeaceBlondie]

Generally, Thais don't pay proofreaders well. I earned 300 baht an hour doing it. They think they lose face being corrected, so they lose face saying it wrong.

[Bagwan]

I think it is a healthy dose of <deleted>. They didn’t get their jobs because they were the best at what they do. They don’t care if you like it or not. You are a second class person who’s language is about as important as a fart in a windstorm. Oh, and, if English teachers in Thailand realized this they would sleep better at night.

Which goes some way to explain why so many honest mistakes are made, why they get away with stating they have been misunderstood and why everything is so second rate. The pursuit of excellence was apprehended at the airport and put on the first areoplane back to wherever it came from.

[mark45y]

They are so excellent at so many things like plucking unwanted hair almost anywhere or backwards finger bending. I have lived in a lot of different countries and no one can hold a candle to Thais in some things but English isn’t one of them.

Peaceblondie I feel for ya. Someone offered me 200 an hour to proof some very important documents. And wanted me to throw in a speech for free. You wouldn’t believe what the speech was about, suffice it to say it later given by a very important person. I almost feinted when I saw my free edit in the newspaper.

[mca]

They are so excellent at so many things like plucking unwanted hair almost anywhere or backwards finger bending. I have lived in a lot of different countries and no one can hold a candle to Thais in some things but English isn’t one of them.

Peaceblondie I feel for ya. Someone offered me 200 an hour to proof some very important documents. And wanted me to throw in a speech for free. You wouldn’t believe what the speech was about, suffice it to say it later given by a very important person. I almost feinted when I saw my free edit in the newspaper.

I hope you gave them their money back mate.

[bonobo]

I had a friend who was an English teacher he taught his students how to spell words wrong intentionally. He got a kick out of it. Words like colour, favourite, honour, analyse, criticise, memorise, centre, metre and theatre, oh I could go on and on. He also taught them to say words like schedule and controversy in a real funny way.

Seriously though, I had a Thai teacher, well respected with a PHD tell me, "we say "ice cream", I keem." Why would they say "ice" in one sentence and the next say " i". I know they can pronounce "i".

I think it is a healthy dose of <deleted>. They didn't get their jobs because they were the best at what they do. They don't care if you like it or not. You are a second class person who's language is about as important as a fart in a windstorm. Oh, and, if English teachers in Thailand realized this they would sleep better at night.

While I was a midshipman at the US Naval Academy, I was assigned to the JMSDF Noshiro in an exchange cruise with the Japanese Navy.  A typhoon was coming up, so to keep the minds of the Japanese Naval Cadets off the rolling seas, I was asked to take them on deck and teach them the phonetic alphabet.  That done, and 19-20-year old men being the same the world over, we got to talking about women.  I was asked how they should act to pick up on American women.  I'm afraid I may not have been that accurate in what I taught them, and some of the lines I did taught cannot be repeated here due to ThaiVisa posting regulations on profanity.  I'll just put it this way.  If any of the cadets did attempt those lines when the ship went to Hawaii after I debarked, well, slapped faces would have been the minimum reaction.

[givenall]

Forget about newspaper. I listen to English language radio stations, both fm88 and fm107.5. The DJ are ok. They either are English speaking natives or were born and raised in US or UK.

It makes me wonder where they get their news people. First of all most they can’t pronouns the word most of the time. Also the writers tend o like to use big and so called sophisticated words. I have to really listen to understand them

[GungaDin]

Print media worldwide are suffering finance problems due to the Internet.

I wouldn't be too critical of either paper nowadays.

Even Rupert is worried.

[mca]

First of all most they can’t pronouns the word most of the time.

How difficult can I, you, we, they, he, she and it be for God's sake!

[GungaDin]

First of all most they can’t pronouns the word most of the time.

How difficult can I, you, we, they, he, she and it be for God's sake!

Subtle as a brick through a window..... :D

pronouns pronounce (in case it was too subtle)

[mca]

That's OK GungaDin. Unsubtle is my middle name. (Well it's James actually but who's counting).

Edited March 28, 2010 by mca

[mark45y]

Forget about newspaper. I listen to English language radio stations, both fm88 and fm107.5. The DJ are ok. They either are English speaking natives or were born and raised in US or UK.

It makes me wonder where they get their news people. First of all most they can’t pronouns the word most of the time. Also the writers tend o like to use big and so called sophisticated words. I have to really listen to understand them

They don’t speak English on TV to inform an English speaking audience. They speak English on TV to impress their Thai friends who don’t speak English.

The quality and clarity of their spoken English is not judged by English speaking people it is judged by Thai people who don’t speak English.

I have a Thai friend who kept asking me to speak to her in Thai. I didn’t because she speaks English.

So for the past week I have been speaking to her in Thai. She is very happy now that she does not have to speak English with me. I asked her if she understood my Thai. Yes, she said. I asked her at what age level was my spoken Thai. She said it was that of a five year old. I agree, but my point is she would rather speak to a five year old Thai person than me in English. She has a masters degree.

[yesdavy]

Well, nobody has seen the errors in my post #1 that started this thread, or at least nobody has commented. No, they weren't placed there intentionally. I left the window open and went to handle a pressing issue and when I returned to finish the thought it had already posted. Not sure how this happened, could have been a timeout issue, but when I tried to edit it I coud not, no permission even though I am logged in. Perhaps, this is a moderator or support issue more than a post, at this point, but it would be nice if I could remedy the couple of errors since the thread is based on correct English and got posted on a first draft without proofreading.

[yesdavy]

First of all most they can't pronouns the word most of the time.

How difficult can I, you, we, they, he, she and it be for God's sake!

Subtle? I loved it LOL! If this is subtle, better add subtitles.

[yesdavy]

The case for Isan and literacy as presented to Thai media.

English, the language of international business and tourism, has rules and precedents in spelling and pronunciation. Northeast Thailand is not exempt from these rules.

Look at the conflicting attempts to write an English word conveying the pronunciation ee’-sahn.

It cannot be E-san or I-san. Hyphenation connects two words. So what is the E in E-san or the I in I-san? But they did get it half right. Go here http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/san and click the speaker button and listen to a correct pronunciation for san. Maybe you have ordered a Caesar salad or spaghetti at some point in your life and you flavored it by sprinkling it with Parmesan. Go here if you need a correct pronunciation for san in the word Parmesan http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parmesan. The second syllable has to be san.

It cannot be Isaan. Show me an English word with the letter a back-to-back like that. The closest thing is a proper name, Isaac, which turns the I long and flattens the second syllable, viz., \ˈī-zik, -zək\. Merriam-Webster online lists no English words spelled with aa, and they list only one obscure geographical French word. It cannot be Isaan. There is no English precedent.

It cannot be Esan. Merriam-Webster online lists no words that begin esa and only one that begins essa, as in essay and the e is short (ĕ) not long per the correct pronunciation http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/essay. It cannot be Esan because this would be pronounced eh’-sahn or worse.

The letter i has a multitude of occurrences in written English where it is pronounced like long ē, e.g., Isuzu, Iraqi, Iranian, Pepsi, magazine, proletariat, gymnasium, variant, pronunciation, deviation, marine, ad infinitum.

English is the most prevalent language in the world, but the world is also influenced linguistically by its second most prevalent language, Spanish. The letter i is always pronounced ē in Spanish, e.g., Mexico, Argentina, Sevilla, ciudad, piña colada, Tijuana.

When Thai language is represented in written English you have the same precedent, to wit, Siam, Si Sa Ket, Phimai, Saraburi, Krabi, Udon Thani, Samui, etc.

The mandate, especially for all Thai media, is to correctly write and pronounce Thailand’s authentic northeastern provinces by calling them as they have been called by scholarly folks for nearly half a century. Anybody who bothers to walk through the old museum in Khon Kaen City can read Isan in all the documentation of the region. This is how they spelled it before Thailand had international business and tourism. It is confusing and counterproductive to reinvent the Isan wheel by making it square, trapezoidal, oval, and triangular…all on the same vehicle

[GungaDin]

Leichhardt

[mazeltov]

I have a Thai friend who kept asking me to speak to her in Thai. I didn’t because she speaks English.

So for the past week I have been speaking to her in Thai. She is very happy now that she does not have to speak English with me. I asked her if she understood my Thai. Yes, she said. I asked her at what age level was my spoken Thai. She said it was that of a five year old. I agree, but my point is she would rather speak to a five year old Thai person than me in English. She has a masters degree.

did you try to discuss language skills issues or thai "culture" related topics with her?

she has her master degree and you can only talk and argue like a five year old - that is her point.

then she goes to leading thai webboard for feminist linguists on cultural studies and open a new topic in the "555" sub category...

[manarak]

...

Look at the conflicting attempts to write an English word conveying the pronunciation ee'-sahn.

It cannot be E-san or I-san. Hyphenation connects two words. So what is the E in E-san or the I in I-san? But they did get it half right. Go here http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/san and click the speaker button and listen to a correct pronunciation for san. Maybe you have ordered a Caesar salad or spaghetti at some point in your life and you flavored it by sprinkling it with Parmesan. Go here if you need a correct pronunciation for san in the word Parmesan http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parmesan. The second syllable has to be san.

It cannot be Isaan. Show me an English word with the letter a back-to-back like that. The closest thing is a proper name, Isaac, which turns the I long and flattens the second syllable, viz., \ˈī-zik, -zək\. Merriam-Webster online lists no English words spelled with aa, and they list only one obscure geographical French word. It cannot be Isaan. There is no English precedent.

It cannot be Esan. Merriam-Webster online lists no words that begin esa and only one that begins essa, as in essay and the e is short (ĕ) not long per the correct pronunciation http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/essay. It cannot be Esan because this would be pronounced eh'-sahn or worse.

The letter i has a multitude of occurrences in written English where it is pronounced like long ē, e.g., Isuzu, Iraqi, Iranian, Pepsi, magazine, proletariat, gymnasium, variant, pronunciation, deviation, marine, ad infinitum. ...

I think German has the best natural phonetic to mimic Thai.

German has both s, ss and Z sounds, as well as ö, ü and ä, which is distinct from e, a and aa and ee (long forms).

When looking up phrases in language books, I am always confused as to the Thai pronounciation when using an English book. In German, no problem.

I can't think at the moment about a Thai word using sounds not present in German.

iik nüng kuot biä chang, krap!

Edited March 28, 2010 by manarak

[bacchanal]

I look forward to the day when The YesDavy Daily Herald is unveiled in Thailand.

[Bagwan]

First of all most they can’t pronouns the word most of the time.

How difficult can I, you, we, they, he, she and it be for God's sake!

As difficult as them, those and these for Buddhas's sake.

[PattayaParent]

Many years ago there used to be a magazine called "Asiaweek" and it had comparison tables at the back comparing different aspects of Asian countries and including European and US counties eg. GDP, Debt, and other economic indicators.

It also included a table on literacy, I can't remember the literacy rate for Thailand but the literacy rate for Philippines was higher than for USA.

So maybe the Bangkok Post and Nation are employing Americans rather than Pilipinos on their staff??

[GungaDin]

^^^^ Asiaweek, (some) archives.

http://www-cgi.cnn.com/ASIANOW/asiaweek/archive/

Most online Asiaweek archives were deleted in a fit of pique by Time Warner.

[PattayaParent]

Why was that Gunga?

I used to enjoy reading Asiaweek when living in Saudi.

[SeanMoran]

Wot it u name?

Wer do u fom?

Blind leading the blind.

[GungaDin]

Why was that Gunga?

I used to enjoy reading Asiaweek when living in Saudi.

PP, if you google asiaweek, go to the Wiki report, it's in there.

TimeWarner copped a lot of flack after sacking the founder who only had 16% of the shares, without him as editor it went downhill.

TW blamed drop in revenue, which was really their fault as the replacement ed was useless & the mag had lost it's way.

In a nutshell, "the suits" were responsible.