Thai Reds Refuse More Talks, Plan Fresh Weekend Demo

[brd199]

Jatuporn is saying one million Red Shirts in Bangkok this Saturday. He is back to the one million level.

Veera updated that to twenty million Red Shirts.

I predict this coming one will be a monster. Every supporter will be encouraged to be there. Every favour will be called in and as many hired extras as can be found will be rounded up. Songkhran is coming.

20 million definitely qualifies as a "monster" and that will require a whole lot of favors and extras.

[anotherpeter]

UDD to stage another big march on 3 Apr

BANGKOK, 31 March 2010 (NNT) – The United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) has issued the 5th announcement saying it will mobilize 20 million supporters on 3 April 2010 to press the Democrat-led government to dissolve the house.

UDD Chairperson Veera Musikapong on Tuesday evening read the announcement indicating 20 million people would rally at Phan Fa Bridge and stay until winning the victory.

He criticized the government for having no sincerity to end the division in the society resulting from the 19 September coup d'้tat. Mr Veera however confirmed that the movement of the UDD would be peaceful using neither violent measures nor weapons.

UDD Deputy Chairperson Jatuporn Prompan added that details of the third mass-march of the UDD on 3 April would be disclosed later. He stressed that the movement would be changed to be more intense in tactics but would still be peaceful.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255303310002

I wonder what excuses they will use when they don't even get 100,000.

[hammered]

Jatuporn is saying one million Red Shirts in Bangkok this Saturday. He is back to the one million level.

Veera updated that to twenty million Red Shirts.

I predict this coming one will be a monster. Every supporter will be encouraged to be there. Every favour will be called in and as many hired extras as can be found will be rounded up. Songkhran is coming.

20 million definitely qualifies as a "monster" and that will require a whole lot of favors and extras.

Veera has gone from being a reasonable and level headed negotiator to...... I dont know quite what.

[brd199]

Police Take Legal Action Against Red Shirts in Chiang Mai

UPDATE : 31 March 2010

Police have charged red-shirt members in Chiang Mai province with trespassing. Meanwhile, police are set to issue an arrest warrant for a monk who splashed blood on soldiers.

Mae Ping Police Station Superintendent, Police Lieutenant Colonel Samphan Sirima, revealed that investigators have indicted eleven leaders of the 'Love Chiang Mai 51' group, including one Buddhist monk, for trespassing after they led red-shirt protesters into the office of the Provincial Police Region 5 on January 24th to oust the commissioner of Provincial Police Region 5, Police Lieutenant-General Somkid Boonthanom.

Sources added that one of the group's leaders, Petchawat Watthanaphongsirikoon, had already led other leaders to turn themselves in to the police.

Police added that they will issue an arrest warrant for a Buddhist monk named Phra Khru Suthep Sitthikhun for smearing military officers with blood in Chiang Mai province if the monk ignores police summons a third time.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData...?DataID=1027113

[Insight]

So who didn't start doing the maths after reading the 20 million figure?

That's a fair few footy teams....

[bulmercke]

QUOTE(Jatuporn):"He also called for the withdrawal of soldiers from the temples which were being used as temporary bases around the Red Shirts protest site, saying it was not appropriate. If the government refuses to do that, he said, protesters will gather at temples to pressure them to leave."

I think this could be the emphasis of next Saturday's protest. The removal of troops from each of the temples surrounding the protest site. If that's at all possible. I guess the Red-Shirts could claim the 'moral high ground' in this respect in that - by anyone's reckoning - the holy sanctity of the temples is being abused by the military who have turned them into fortified bastions.

I don't know if the Red-Shirts have access to any of these temples at the moment. I would imagine the temples and the temple grounds are open to everyone. Any one side laying a territorial claim - for their own benefit - could be an interesting and debatable point.

[quiksilva]

Their claims have gone from worrisome to comical.

20 million, people?

That's almost one third of the entire population!

Almost twice the population of Bangkok!

At Phanfa Bridge?!!!!!

How can anyone take these guys seriously?

These guys are setting new standards in doing a Weng!

[bulmercke]

Twenty million. They'll be lucky if they get 0.5% of that - 100,000.

Mind you - Thailand is now a badly divided nation. There's probably 20 million or so Thais - give or take a few million - that generally sympathize with the Red-Shirts and their political aims and ideals.

[Roob]

It seems so wrong that 1.47% of the population is forcing the governments hand at calling early elections.Absihit stated that he has to consider all the people of Thailand.He also wants a referendum to change the constitution about military law.Why not ask the people in a referendum if they want the government to have early elections? This precedent is obviously a little dangerous for future governments as minorities may resort to these tactics in the future but because of the controversies of the last election,this situation could be regarded as unique.The Reds have a valid argument there even though (imho) this government has been elected by the rules of the law.I am not quoting here but Absihit has said something like that this was not the ideal way to come into government.

It is the governments responsibilty to ensure that the referendum is run fairly and democratically and being in LOS,this is a challenge to say the least.The majority rules,simple as that.You would probably expect that both results of the referendum,being martial law and early elections, would probably be the same.

Surely everyone debating on this would agree that all powers should be used to prevent the chance of violence.It is a volatile situation that must be stopped asap.

Power to the people!

Edit-OOps perhaps I should have read more current articles as I see Absihit asked Weng about holding a referendum.Good idea Mr A

Edited March 31, 2010 by Roob

[anotherpeter]

QUOTE(Jatuporn):"He also called for the withdrawal of soldiers from the temples which were being used as temporary bases around the Red Shirts protest site, saying it was not appropriate. If the government refuses to do that, he said, protesters will gather at temples to pressure them to leave."

I think this could be the emphasis of next Saturday's protest. The removal of troops from each of the temples surrounding the protest site. If that's at all possible. I guess the Red-Shirts could claim the 'moral high ground' in this respect in that - by anyone's reckoning - the holy sanctity of the temples is being abused by the military who have turned them into fortified bastions.

I don't know if the Red-Shirts have access to any of these temples at the moment. I would imagine the temples and the temple grounds are open to everyone. Any one side laying a territorial claim - for their own benefit - could be an interesting and debatable point.

How about moving all the soldiers from the wat's into government buildings or onto government land.

Do it late Friday night, so that when the red shirts wake up in the morning, they'll have nothing to do.

[lannarebirth]

QUOTE(Jatuporn):"He also called for the withdrawal of soldiers from the temples which were being used as temporary bases around the Red Shirts protest site, saying it was not appropriate. If the government refuses to do that, he said, protesters will gather at temples to pressure them to leave."

I think this could be the emphasis of next Saturday's protest. The removal of troops from each of the temples surrounding the protest site. If that's at all possible. I guess the Red-Shirts could claim the 'moral high ground' in this respect in that - by anyone's reckoning - the holy sanctity of the temples is being abused by the military who have turned them into fortified bastions.

I don't know if the Red-Shirts have access to any of these temples at the moment. I would imagine the temples and the temple grounds are open to everyone. Any one side laying a territorial claim - for their own benefit - could be an interesting and debatable point.

I agree. I think the soldiers should be replaced by the police whose job is to protect people and property. I hope they can find enough dependable ones.

Edited March 31, 2010 by lannarebirth

[bangkokrick]

Their claims have gone from worrisome to comical.

20 million, people?

That's almost one third of the entire population!

Almost twice the population of Bangkok!

At Phanfa Bridge?!!!!!

How can anyone take these guys seriously?

These guys are setting new standards in doing a Weng!

Utterly ridiculous! They could not even get the initial proposed 1 million and in fact got no where near that figure. They have finally made themselves the laughing stock of all Political movements and this will cost votes in the long run. The people from Isaan will also be laughing at this one.

Cheers, Rick

[jdinasia]

Jatuporn is saying one million Red Shirts in Bangkok this Saturday. He is back to the one million level.

Veera updated that to twenty million Red Shirts.

I predict this coming one will be a monster. Every supporter will be encouraged to be there. Every favour will be called in and as many hired extras as can be found will be rounded up. Songkhran is coming.

20 million definitely qualifies as a "monster" and that will require a whole lot of favors and extras.

I seem to have missed where Veera said 20 million would show up in BKK, can you point me in the right direction?

[bangkokrick]

Have you heard the one about Abhisit and the extended Debt Moratorium for farmers.

Check out the front page of the paper that must not be named. This is a game changer.

Thaksin is going to have a fit and Abhisit has put all his cards on the table. Reading it, it looks like a very elegant scheme.

Oh dear! Thaksin will be in tears again during his next phone in. Good move by the Government.

Cheers, Rick

[anotherpeter]

I seem to have missed where Veera said 20 million would show up in BKK, can you point me in the right direction?

Post #60

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255303310002

[bangkokrick]

Jatuporn is saying one million Red Shirts in Bangkok this Saturday. He is back to the one million level.

Veera updated that to twenty million Red Shirts.

I predict this coming one will be a monster. Every supporter will be encouraged to be there. Every favour will be called in and as many hired extras as can be found will be rounded up. Songkhran is coming.

20 million definitely qualifies as a "monster" and that will require a whole lot of favors and extras.

I seem to have missed where Veera said 20 million would show up in BKK, can you point me in the right direction?

Link to 20 million

[bulmercke]

Their claims have gone from worrisome to comical.

20 million, people?

That's almost one third of the entire population!

Almost twice the population of Bangkok!

At Phanfa Bridge?!!!!!

How can anyone take these guys seriously?

These guys are setting new standards in doing a Weng!

Utterly ridiculous! They could not even get the initial proposed 1 million and in fact got no where near that figure. They have finally made themselves the laughing stock of all Political movements and this will cost votes in the long run. The people from Isaan will also be laughing at this one.

Cheers, Rick

I don't think so. For the first time - at least since the onset of the PAD protests all those years ago - they managed to bring the PM to the negotiating table in a televised 'debate'.

That was hardly a laughing matter for Abhisit and the govenment.

[jdinasia]

I seem to have missed where Veera said 20 million would show up in BKK, can you point me in the right direction?

Post #60

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255303310002

Ummm I would actually want to see that in Thai I would assume that not even Weera thinks that will happen and that he was implying the support of 20 million Thais (not that they would show up!) I would estimate that between 12 and 16 million Thais think of themselves as somewhat Red to Very red ... but less than 200,000 as 'extremely red' -- and few enough that are Violently red.

[Insight]

It's been mentioned here and elsewhere about the patience of the BKK residents on the verge of expiring with the red shirts.

The silly 20 million claim could be a pre-emptive strike to make people reconsider any advance planning to oppose them this weekend.

Just a thought...

[anotherpeter]

I don't think so. For the first time - at least since the onset of the PAD protests all those years ago - they managed to bring the PM to the negotiating table in a televised 'debate'.

That was hardly a laughing matter for Abhisit and the govenment.

But don't you think the reds have lost support because they have stopped those negotiations?

The reds wouldn't have *gained* any supporters by rejecting the offer.

There would be red supporters out there that have basically said "we got something, now lets go home."

[bulmercke]

QUOTE(Jatuporn):"He also called for the withdrawal of soldiers from the temples which were being used as temporary bases around the Red Shirts protest site, saying it was not appropriate. If the government refuses to do that, he said, protesters will gather at temples to pressure them to leave."

I think this could be the emphasis of next Saturday's protest. The removal of troops from each of the temples surrounding the protest site. If that's at all possible. I guess the Red-Shirts could claim the 'moral high ground' in this respect in that - by anyone's reckoning - the holy sanctity of the temples is being abused by the military who have turned them into fortified bastions.

I don't know if the Red-Shirts have access to any of these temples at the moment. I would imagine the temples and the temple grounds are open to everyone. Any one side laying a territorial claim - for their own benefit - could be an interesting and debatable point.

I agree. I think the soldiers should be replaced by the police whose job is to protect people and property. I hope they can find enough dependable ones.

QUOTE:".............whose job is to protect people and property." In theory. But then T.I.T.

[Thai at Heart]

Have you heard the one about Abhisit and the extended Debt Moratorium for farmers.

Check out the front page of the paper that must not be named. This is a game changer.

Thaksin is going to have a fit and Abhisit has put all his cards on the table. Reading it, it looks like a very elegant scheme.

I read it, and though I'm in favor of easing debt burden for farmers, I think it could have been crafted better. The ceiling of Bt.2.5 million seems high. Also, every farmer with a debt will want to enter in on the scheme, so that's added bureaucracy for each one (or whomever does his/her financial chores). Any farmer who sticks with his original loan agreement will feel like a dumb fool for being responsible. The debt relief plan essentially reinforces irresponsibility. There also needs to be across the board consciousness adjustment (you can tell I'm from California) for Bank/Gov't Loan officers AND realistic assessment of what farmers really need to make a decent living.

Example: much of current farming expenditure goes to unnecessary and/or environmentally harmful things: Prime example: toxic chemicals. Also choice of crop options is a big issue. I would imagine that every farmer who proposes (to the loan officer) that he's planning to grow rice, gets an OK from the lending institution - without a consideration of the wisdom of growing rice in drought stricken regions.

To give an example of how myopic the thinking level is here in Thailand: There's a large tract of rural land near my house which is a Government station (Ag Dept?) for experimenting to find best crops for Thailand. It looks to be 50 rai with lots of buildings and personnel and a fat budget. What sorts of interesting plants are they experimenting with? Answer: nearly the whole compound is dedicated to one type of indigenous fruit tree, and there's been no noticeable development in many years. This was told to me by one of the senior staff there. The place is basically stymied in to doing nothing. Anyone familiar with how Thai bureaucracy works won't be surprised. Perhaps it's where some of the hundreds of people per month go - who go who get "assigned to an inactive post."

The psychology of an announcement like the debt forgiveness will put a stop on most farmers' payments right away. It will also send a message to all farmers who plan to take out new debt: "don't worry too much about the money owed or the interest, as subsequent governments will likely forgive the debt in the future." It's like the psychology of Mexicans continually coming in to the US. They know it's illegal, but they also know that every 9 years or so there's a general amnesty, and each Mexican who is in the States will get given a green card.

All the data for the costs of production and relevant pricing is provided by the companies in the market to excise. Excise has been studying this stuff for donkey's years. They will have breakdowns for every miniscule necessary input into the crop. I agree that the agriculture departments in Thailand are of absolutely no use whatsoever. They haven't come up with any new ideas for years and years.

What no one does is check the figures they get from the companies, the agricultural departments or the farmers to see where the real problems lie, hence your research station sitting around forever solving nothing practical. Is the problem soils? Is it fertilisers? Is it the type of seed? Is it practices? Is it timing? The answers are myriad. hel_l they still burn half the countryside every year because no can even enforce the LAW.

That said, there is nothing quite so stubborn as a small hold farmer. They don't like to change their ways, but when the bearer of the advice is either a government whiz kid from Bangkok, or the purchaser would you really believe they have your absolute BEST intentions at heart with superior hands on experience?

[bangkokrick]

I don't think so. For the first time - at least since the onset of the PAD protests all those years ago - they managed to bring the PM to the negotiating table in a televised 'debate'.

That was hardly a laughing matter for Abhisit and the govenment.

But don't you think the reds have lost support because they have stopped those negotiations?

The reds wouldn't have *gained* any supporters by rejecting the offer.

There would be red supporters out there that have basically said "we got something, now lets go home."

Agree, I was just going to post the same reply.

Cheers, Rick

[bulmercke]

I don't think so. For the first time - at least since the onset of the PAD protests all those years ago - they managed to bring the PM to the negotiating table in a televised 'debate'.

That was hardly a laughing matter for Abhisit and the govenment.

But don't you think the reds have lost support because they have stopped those negotiations?

The reds wouldn't have *gained* any supporters by rejecting the offer.

There would be red supporters out there that have basically said "we got something, now lets go home."

Nine months for the Reds is an unrealistically long time to wait - which is what Abhisit was prepared to offer.

They might as well wait for the next election to come round which is not that long after this date!

There was an impasse in the talks and I think both sides realised that neither side was going to budge. I think the vast majority of the Reds supporters realised this. And anyway - they believe they've got the government on the run - so why settle for much less than what they want - the immediate dissoulution of the house.

And also. Who really stopped the negotiations? Can you realistically point the finger at any one side?

[pimay11]

I don't think so. For the first time - at least since the onset of the PAD protests all those years ago - they managed to bring the PM to the negotiating table in a televised 'debate'.

That was hardly a laughing matter for Abhisit and the govenment.

But don't you think the reds have lost support because they have stopped those negotiations?

The reds wouldn't have *gained* any supporters by rejecting the offer.

There would be red supporters out there that have basically said "we got something, now lets go home."

The red supporters do not have a clue as to what is the root cuse of this fiasco i.e. Khun T wants his money back. The guy who works for me here in Issan has eight extended family members who have been in the Bangkok red rallies for three weeks. They each receive 500 B a day plus free food and transportation to Bangkok. Here they would be making 150/200 B a day. It is economics for these people. They want to come home but can't afford to as they are making three time as much waving clappers and cheering. Sad but true.

[anotherpeter]

I don't think so. For the first time - at least since the onset of the PAD protests all those years ago - they managed to bring the PM to the negotiating table in a televised 'debate'.

That was hardly a laughing matter for Abhisit and the govenment.

But don't you think the reds have lost support because they have stopped those negotiations?

The reds wouldn't have *gained* any supporters by rejecting the offer.

There would be red supporters out there that have basically said "we got something, now lets go home."

Nine months for the Reds is an unrealistically long time to wait - which is what Abhisit was prepared to offer.

They might as well wait for the next election to come round which is not that long after this date!

There was an impasse in the talks and I think both sides realised that neither side was going to budge. I think the vast majority of the Reds supporters realised this. And anyway - they believe they've got the government on the run - so why settle for much less than what they want - the immediate dissoulution of the house.

And also. Who really stopped the negotiations? Can you realistically point the finger at any one side?

You couldn't point a finger on the night, but the government clearly offered negotiations to continue in a couple of days and the red leaders flat out rejected it.

[webfact]

Thai protesters ready for fresh mass rally

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thai Red Shirt protesters geared up Wednesday for another weekend of mass rallies, ignoring Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's offer of a third round of talks to negotiate early elections.

The red-clad champions of fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra have refused the prime minister's compromise to hold a vote in nine months, insisting that Abhisit dissolve the lower house within 15 days.

Red Shirt leaders said that Saturday's gathering would be their biggest since their rally began with more than 100,000 protesters on March 14, after the country's top court seized most of Thaksin's fortune.

Thaksin lives abroad, mostly in Dubai, to avoid a jail term for graft.

"All Red Shirts across the country are ready to return to fight on, as our goal has not yet been achieved," Reds' leader Jatuporn Prompan told reporters.

"Having a third round of negotiations on April 1 is not valid.... Further talks will only happen if the government changes its position. If it insists on nine months for elections there will be no talks," he added.

The Reds have said they will not make a firm plan for the rally until Saturday. They have staged a series of dramatic stunts to press their demand in recent weeks, including throwing their own blood at Abhisit's offices.

Abhisit is currently travelling in Bahrain, where he used a media conference on Tuesday to repeat his offer of further talks with Red Shirts. His offer to hold elections in nine months would be a year ahead of schedule.

The Red Shirts love the populist Thaksin, who was ousted in a coup in 2006, and despise Abhisit, whom they accuse of being elitist and in the pocket of the country's powerful military establishment.

Stemming mostly from the rural poor, the Reds say Abhisit's government is undemocratic because it came to power through a parliamentary vote after a court ruling removed Thaksin's allies from power.

The government has extended for one week a strict security law that places the military in charge of security in Bangkok.

While the demonstrations have been peaceful, a series of small explosions have hit politically significant sites and army buildings, injuring more than a dozen people in the last five days.

Army spokesman Sunsern Kaewkumnerd said armed soldiers and police would guard key government institutions this weekend, but would refrain from entering non-political buildings such as temples and a zoo, after the Red Shirts chased them out during their moving rally last weekend.

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-31

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Insight]

I don't think so. For the first time - at least since the onset of the PAD protests all those years ago - they managed to bring the PM to the negotiating table in a televised 'debate'.

That was hardly a laughing matter for Abhisit and the govenment.

But don't you think the reds have lost support because they have stopped those negotiations?

The reds wouldn't have *gained* any supporters by rejecting the offer.

There would be red supporters out there that have basically said "we got something, now lets go home."

Nine months for the Reds is an unrealistically long time to wait - which is what Abhisit was prepared to offer.

They might as well wait for the next election to come round which is not that long after this date!

There was an impasse in the talks and I think both sides realised that neither side was going to budge. I think the vast majority of the Reds supporters realised this. And anyway - they believe they've got the government on the run - so why settle for much less than what they want - the immediate dissoulution of the house.

And also. Who really stopped the negotiations? Can you realistically point the finger at any one side?

Nine months is incredibly realistic globally, and still too soon here given the referendum requirement. If there is no referendum there'll simply be more and more protests after this election - that's a given.

When the protests started they done a half-decent job of keeping a lid on protesters being paid with all their signs in Thai and English and what not. It's clearly getting more difficult to do that now given the numbers of people they want involved. Following the televised so-called "debate" and the rumors emerging about payments received by protesters, this "democratic movement" sounds increasingly like a rent-a-mob in bulk - as per usual.

[bulmercke]

I don't think so. For the first time - at least since the onset of the PAD protests all those years ago - they managed to bring the PM to the negotiating table in a televised 'debate'.

That was hardly a laughing matter for Abhisit and the govenment.

But don't you think the reds have lost support because they have stopped those negotiations?

The reds wouldn't have *gained* any supporters by rejecting the offer.

There would be red supporters out there that have basically said "we got something, now lets go home."

The red supporters do not have a clue as to what is the root cuse of this fiasco i.e. Khun T wants his money back. The guy who works for me here in Issan has eight extended family members who have been in the Bangkok red rallies for three weeks. They each receive 500 B a day plus free food and transportation to Bangkok. Here they would be making 150/200 B a day. It is economics for these people. They want to come home but can't afford to as they are making three time as much waving clappers and cheering. Sad but true.

I agree. But to say (and I quote you): "The red supporters do not have a clue as to what is the root cuse of this fiasco i.e. Khun T wants his money back." is too simple.

I believe this protest isn't solely about Thaksin and his money. I don't think I would be exagerating if I stated that the majority of Red-Shirts are indeed aware of the wider economic and social implications of the movement and the desire for political change and reform.

Of course - there are undoubtedly those at the protest site whose only concern is their own personal well-being and finances and who don't give a fig about anyone or anything except themselves and where their next lovely crisp 500 baht note is coming from.

[webfact]

Saturday demonstration to be biggest ever : Jatuporn

BANGKOK: -- The red shirts leaders annouced on Wednesday, the mass rally this Saturday will be much bigger than the previous ones to put more pressure to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House before Songkran Festival.

Red shirt leaders Jatuporn Promphan and Weng Tojirakan said on the stage at the Phan Fa Bridge that they won't have the third round of peace talk with the government as the government is not sincere in settling the political conflicts with them.

He added that if the government insisted to stay for the next nine month before dissolving the House, it would be useless for the red shirts to talk to the government.

Jatuporn wanted Abhisit to think back during the tenure of the late ex Prime Minister Samak Sundhoravej that Abhisit had suggested that it was a waste of money for the government, about Bt20 million to hold a referendum.

Abhisit himself called for House dissolution at that time.

Jatuporn said the red shirts' only position was that the government dissolved the Parliament within 15 days. If the government agreed to this, the third round of talk will take place.

Jatuporn has warned the prime minister not to bring soldiers in as it would worsen the situation and Abhisit himself will become a dictator.

-- The Nation 2010-03-31

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