African Street Scammers In Thailand

[iamsano]

i am african myself, i am from guinea (west africa) and am teaching here. it is sad to see how those people in sukumvit, or pathunam give bad image to all africans. I know most people out there are not racist but i know it is hard for you to idstinguish. for me i believe the thai police should take tuff actions against anyone doing wrong businesses here including africans of course.

if you to pattaya, you see a of europeans, americans doing drugs business, pornography, child abuse and even in bangkok we see those things all the time. we see iranians robbing banks and shops but people only mention about what blacks do and that is just hypocracy to me.. i hope we can be honest with ourselves and the police should just do what is right...

You go to a thai embassy for visas, you are in trouble if you are african and that is just racism. An asian or american or european goes there, he might just need a paper to fill up and no further question but africans are asked to bring so many different papers, they are asked to show money, they are asked to pay money when they wanna come back to bangkok... all those nonsenses are done to them... where is your justice.. so some of them just decide to live here with no visa and pay 20000 at the immigration when ready to leave. there are also non africans with no visa in bangkok but police just dont give a dam_n about it.

[davelec]

i am african myself, i am from guinea (west africa) and am teaching here.

I always thought it was illegal to work here as an English teacher if not from an English speaking (western) nation?

[bonobo]

i am african myself, i am from guinea (west africa) and am teaching here. it is sad to see how those people in sukumvit, or pathunam give bad image to all africans. ....

... where is your justice.. so some of them just decide to live here with no visa and pay 20000 at the immigration when ready to leave. there are also non africans with no visa in bangkok but police just dont give a dam_n about it.

Thanks for your perspective.

[somtampet]

Bangkok sounds a lovely place,not only red shirts,pollution,high humidity,rats the size of cats,we have some lovely non white scammers

There are a few white scammers out there too somtampet...just to throw you off the scent.

Not in Bangkok i dont believe you

No you're right somtampet you can trust every white face in Bangkok. All of us are rich expats so why would we scam an unsuspecting tourist?

Good luck mate.

cheers me dears

[somtampet]

i am african myself, i am from guinea (west africa) and am teaching here. it is sad to see how those people in sukumvit, or pathunam give bad image to all africans. I know most people out there are not racist but i know it is hard for you to idstinguish. for me i believe the thai police should take tuff actions against anyone doing wrong businesses here including africans of course.

if you to pattaya, you see a of europeans, americans doing drugs business, pornography, child abuse and even in bangkok we see those things all the time. we see iranians robbing banks and shops but people only mention about what blacks do and that is just hypocracy to me.. i hope we can be honest with ourselves and the police should just do what is right...

You go to a thai embassy for visas, you are in trouble if you are african and that is just racism. An asian or american or european goes there, he might just need a paper to fill up and no further question but africans are asked to bring so many different papers, they are asked to show money, they are asked to pay money when they wanna come back to bangkok... all those nonsenses are done to them... where is your justice.. so some of them just decide to live here with no visa and pay 20000 at the immigration when ready to leave. there are also non africans with no visa in bangkok but police just dont give a dam_n about it.

Dont throw the racist card again.The reason you get checked is that many scammers are from Africa,nothing to do with the skin colour my friend

[bangon04]

Anyone who gets taken in by these scams is an idiot...the only reason these scams work is greed...they offer something for nothing and too many gullible idiots think that is really possible. Nothing is for nothing!!

As for them selling drugs at soi 13...who does that hurt? I have walked past there without ever being hassled. If someone wants to buy something and someone else is willing to take the risk (pay the bribes) and sell them it, then it is simple market forces. Not any problem that I can see.

Actually it does hurt - when they are slapping each other and their women around in Soi 13 at 07:00 after a long night, when children have to walk past them to get to school, for example. I doubt they intend to intimidate local children deliberately, but that is nevertheless the effect.

[Huey]

i am african myself, i am from guinea (west africa) and am teaching here. it is sad to see how those people in sukumvit, or pathunam give bad image to all africans. I know most people out there are not racist but i know it is hard for you to idstinguish. for me i believe the thai police should take tuff actions against anyone doing wrong businesses here including africans of course.

if you to pattaya, you see a of europeans, americans doing drugs business, pornography, child abuse and even in bangkok we see those things all the time. we see iranians robbing banks and shops but people only mention about what blacks do and that is just hypocracy to me.. i hope we can be honest with ourselves and the police should just do what is right...

You go to a thai embassy for visas, you are in trouble if you are african and that is just racism. An asian or american or european goes there, he might just need a paper to fill up and no further question but africans are asked to bring so many different papers, they are asked to show money, they are asked to pay money when they wanna come back to bangkok... all those nonsenses are done to them... where is your justice.. so some of them just decide to live here with no visa and pay 20000 at the immigration when ready to leave. there are also non africans with no visa in bangkok but police just dont give a dam_n about it.

Of course it's hypocrisy. What would you expect? These are the same people that when they come to your country they are the first ones to scam, steal natural resources, sell weapons to rebel factions in your community to keep your people from uniting, buy up blood diamonds to keep you down....historically it's the Europeans who have been the worlds biggest and most prolific scammers the globe over. Yet when they come to Thailand they wanna complain about falling for the Micky mouse scams a few Africans come up with.

Yeah it's wrong but it's gonna be that way for awhile until Africa gets it's manufacturing infrastructure, security, and it's investment laws together to become the new Asia in terms of exports of products and services....

Soon though Brother, soon, We may even live to see the day

Edited April 6, 2010 by Huey

[bonobo]

i am african myself, i am from guinea (west africa) and am teaching here. it is sad to see how those people in sukumvit, or pathunam give bad image to all africans. I know most people out there are not racist but i know it is hard for you to idstinguish. for me i believe the thai police should take tuff actions against anyone doing wrong businesses here including africans of course.

if you to pattaya, you see a of europeans, americans doing drugs business, pornography, child abuse and even in bangkok we see those things all the time. we see iranians robbing banks and shops but people only mention about what blacks do and that is just hypocracy to me.. i hope we can be honest with ourselves and the police should just do what is right...

You go to a thai embassy for visas, you are in trouble if you are african and that is just racism. An asian or american or european goes there, he might just need a paper to fill up and no further question but africans are asked to bring so many different papers, they are asked to show money, they are asked to pay money when they wanna come back to bangkok... all those nonsenses are done to them... where is your justice.. so some of them just decide to live here with no visa and pay 20000 at the immigration when ready to leave. there are also non africans with no visa in bangkok but police just dont give a dam_n about it.

Dont throw the racist card again.The reason you get checked is that many scammers are from Africa,nothing to do with the skin colour my friend

Racist or discrimination, it is a fact, so accusing him of throwing the racist card adds nothing to the discussion.

True, most street scammers on the Suk are of African background. So maybe the scrutiny, while racist or discriminatory, is warranted in view of the Thai authorities, or even among other visitors.  But, without knowing the actual numbers, it seems to me that the majority of peadophiles arrested in Thailand are middle-aged white men, and the majority of foreign mafia-types in Pattaya are Russians.  Do these demographics get any more scrutiny than other demographics?  The fact that a few bad seeds are from these demographics does not seem to tar all Russians or middle-aged white men with the same criminal brush.

And we discriminate in the west, too. Single, non-wealthy women generally cannot get a visa to visit the US, for example.  I am not arguing if that discrimination is valid or not, just that it exists. 

I would be upset if I was African and had to jump through more hoops than a European just to visit here.  That is racism, that is discrimination.  Whether there is a basis or not for that due to actions of some of my fellow Africans would not matter as to how I would feel when it was me at the receiving end of these actions.

[bangon04]

True, most street scammers on the Suk are of African background. So maybe the scrutiny, while racist or discriminatory, is warranted in view of the Thai authorities, or even among other visitors. But, without knowing the actual numbers, it seems to me that the majority of peadophiles arrested in Thailand are middle-aged white men, and the majority of foreign mafia-types in Pattaya are Russians. Do these demographics get any more scrutiny than other demographics? The fact that a few bad seeds are from these demographics does not seem to tar all Russians or middle-aged white men with the same criminal brush.

And we discriminate in the west, too. Single, non-wealthy women generally cannot get a visa to visit the US, for example. I am not arguing if that discrimination is valid or not, just that it exists.

I would be upset if I was African and had to jump through more hoops than a European just to visit here. That is racism, that is discrimination. Whether there is a basis or not for that due to actions of some of my fellow Africans would not matter as to how I would feel when it was me at the receiving end of these actions.

Would it be fair to say that most Thais do discriminate on grounds of colour, and since these scammers are quite blatant in their activities, it would be logical to think that the authorities would find it easy to act to clear them out. The fact that they do not bother does reinforce the idea that these activites are sanctioned by the powers that be. And the obvious conclusion is that somebody (Thai) is profiting from this

[JohnnyJohn]

I think everyone is getting the issue of racism confused with national profiling. If the majority of the people coming from a country, or group of countries in a region, are known to be doing illegal activities when they enter others countries, then it is nothing but prudence on behalf of the host country to make it more stringent for the people from the problematic countries to get a visa to enter. If you go back to my OP, part of the issue I raise is about the ease with which these people are actually able to enter Thailand and remain here doing all sorts of illegal activities.

The whole problem is that it should be even more difficult than it is for these criminals to enter this country. Are the authorities aware of the activities they are doing here? Yes, but yet they still open the doors wide open anyway. It's obvious. Look how many West African street scammers and drug dealers have appeared on the scene in Bangkok in the last 18 months. So it is only through awareness and discussions like this one (since the authorities are not taking proper action) that there is a chance to deter these criminals from ripping off unsuspecting people in Thailand. Does this mean all West Africans that enter Thailand are criminals? Of course not, but we are not here talking about the non criminals at this point.

And to further say across the board that all scam victims are greedy is pure naivety. If you are a victim of the Black Money street scam I am talking about then you are basically looking to profit from what appears to be a business opportunity someone has offered to you. So are you greedy because someone offers you what sounds like a good business opportunity and you take it? Invest some money and get back more money than you invested. I thought that is the principal of investing. So that is now known just simply as greed? So if investment is greed then all people who invest their money in anything should be ripped off, right? Was Kevin Bacon and John Malkovich (who have millions already) greedy when they invested millions in Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme, which they believed was a legitimate investment company, and lost it? The got what they deserved, right?

Are you greedy because you take a job offer? There are many scams based on advance fee fraud offering people jobs which don't exist and are not based on greed. Are you greedy because you are paying the processing and legal fees to receive an inheritance that some scammer convinced you was left to you by a deceased relative? Are you greedy because you give money to a charity, when in fact it is a scammer posing as a large aid organization? Are you greedy when you send money to a scammer posing as someone in Africa who claims to be in a refugee camp and needs money to get out? Are you greedy when you send money to help rebuild an orphanage that doesn't exist? Are you greedy when you send some scammer money who claims to need money for an organ transplant?

Many African scammers who use the internet as a means of sourcing their victims often have forged credentials and use stolen identities such that the victim don't even know they are dealing with someone in Africa to begin with. Before you make blanket accusations about everyone being greedy who falls for a scam, I think you should do more homework first.

And finally, is greed a punishable crime? And is it a crime under which a penalty should be imposed that you lose all your money to some scammer? And who made these scammers the law enforcers to be handing down the sentences to these greedy people who deserve to be penalized? So the scammers are doing the world a lot of good by sorting out these greedy people and taking their money away from them, right? Just old fashioned good Samaritans these scammers are, right?

I say the scammers are being greedy for scamming people in the first place and should be punished themselves rather than being left to profit from their activities. From some of the things people write they make it sound as if what the scammers are doing is right and not wrong and it is the victims who are wrong for being greedy. A truly pathetic and pedestrian view really.

Edited April 6, 2010 by JohnnyJohn

[Naam]

I think everyone is getting the issue of racism confused with national profiling. If the majority of the people coming from a country, or group of countries in a region, are known to be doing illegal activities when they enter others countries, then it is nothing but prudence on behalf of the host country to make it more stringent for the people from the problematic countries to get a visa to enter. If you go back to my OP, part of the issue I raise is about the ease with which these people are actually able to enter Thailand and remain here doing all sorts of illegal activities.

The whole problem is that it should be even more difficult than it is for these criminals to enter this country. Are the authorities aware of the activities they are doing here? Yes, but yet they still open the doors wide open anyway. It's obvious. Look how many West African street scammers and drug dealers have appeared on the scene in Bangkok in the last 18 months. So it is only through awareness and discussions like this one (since the authorities are not taking proper action) that there is a chance to deter these criminals from ripping off unsuspecting people in Thailand. Does this mean all West Africans that enter Thailand are criminals? Of course not, but we are not here talking about the non criminals at this point.

true! your talk is nothing but bla-bla-bla-bla-bla bla-bla-bla-bla-bla bla-bla-bla-bla-bla bla-bla-bla-bla-bla bla-bla-bla-bla-bla bla-bla-bla-bla-bla

[Kitsch22]

I think everyone is getting the issue of racism confused with national profiling. If the majority of the people coming from a country, or group of countries in a region, are known to be doing illegal activities when they enter others countries, then it is nothing but prudence on behalf of the host country to make it more stringent for the people from the problematic countries to get a visa to enter. If you go back to my OP, part of the issue I raise is about the ease with which these people are actually able to enter Thailand and remain here doing all sorts of illegal activities.

The whole problem is that it should be even more difficult than it is for these criminals to enter this country. Are the authorities aware of the activities they are doing here? Yes, but yet they still open the doors wide open anyway. It's obvious. Look how many West African street scammers and drug dealers have appeared on the scene in Bangkok in the last 18 months. So it is only through awareness and discussions like this one (since the authorities are not taking proper action) that there is a chance to deter these criminals from ripping off unsuspecting people in Thailand. Does this mean all West Africans that enter Thailand are criminals? Of course not, but we are not here talking about the non criminals at this point.

And to further say across the board that all scam victims are greedy is pure naivety. If you are a victim of the Black Money street scam I am talking about then you are basically looking to profit from what appears to be a business opportunity someone has offered to you. So are you greedy because someone offers you what sounds like a good business opportunity and you take it? Invest some money and get back more money than you invested. I thought that is the principal of investing. So that is now known just simply as greed? So if investment is greed then all people who invest their money in anything should be ripped off, right? Was Kevin Bacon and John Malkovich (who have millions already) greedy when they invested millions in Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme, which they believed was a legitimate investment company, and lost it? The got what they deserved, right?

Are you greedy because you take a job offer? There are many scams based on advance fee fraud offering people jobs which don't exist and are not based on greed. Are you greedy because you are paying the processing and legal fees to receive an inheritance that some scammer convinced you was left to you by a deceased relative? Are you greedy because you give money to a charity, when in fact it is a scammer posing as a large aid organization? Are you greedy when you send money to a scammer posing as someone in Africa who claims to be in a refugee camp and needs money to get out? Are you greedy when you send money to help rebuild an orphanage that doesn't exist? Are you greedy when you send some scammer money who claims to need money for an organ transplant?

Many African scammers who use the internet as a means of sourcing their victims often have forged credentials and use stolen identities such that the victim don't even know they are dealing with someone in Africa to begin with. Before you make blanket accusations about everyone being greedy who falls for a scam, I think you should do more homework first.

And finally, is greed a punishable crime? And is it a crime under which a penalty should be imposed that you lose all your money to some scammer? And who made these scammers the law enforcers to be handing down the sentences to these greedy people who deserve to be penalized? So the scammers are doing the world a lot of good by sorting out these greedy people and taking their money away from them, right? Just old fashioned good Samaritans these scammers are, right?

I say the scammers are being greedy for scamming people in the first place and should be punished themselves rather than being left to profit from their activities. From some of the things people write they make it sound as if what the scammers are doing is right and not wrong and it is the victims who are wrong for being greedy. A truly pathetic and pedestrian view really.

Get real, please. These guys not only trade on greed, most of the time it's wannabe criminal greed.

Black money scam is "sold" as a way of defrauding customs or the tax authorities.

Unclaimed account scam is an offer of a commission to help steal money.

Inheritances from "deceased relatives" you never heard of and who don't exist?

Don't get me wrong, I would send them all home in a heartbeat. But if they target you it's because they sense that you might (just might) be a tiny bit bent yourself.

[JohnnyJohn]

<br />

I think everyone is getting the issue of racism confused with national profiling. If the majority of the people coming from a country, or group of countries in a region, are known to be doing illegal activities when they enter others countries, then it is nothing but prudence on behalf of the host country to make it more stringent for the people from the problematic countries to get a visa to enter. If you go back to my OP, part of the issue I raise is about the ease with which these people are actually able to enter Thailand and remain here doing all sorts of illegal activities.<br /><br />The whole problem is that it should be even more difficult than it is for these criminals to enter this country. Are the authorities aware of the activities they are doing here? Yes, but yet they still open the doors wide open anyway. It's obvious. Look how many West African street scammers and drug dealers have appeared on the scene in Bangkok in the last 18 months. So it is only through awareness and discussions like this one (since the authorities are not taking proper action) that there is a chance to deter these criminals from ripping off unsuspecting people in Thailand. Does this mean all West Africans that enter Thailand are criminals? Of course not, but we are not here talking about the non criminals at this point.<br /><br />And to further say across the board that all scam victims are greedy is pure naivety. If you are a victim of the Black Money street scam I am talking about then you are basically looking to profit from what appears to be a business opportunity someone has offered to you. So are you greedy because someone offers you what sounds like a good business opportunity and you take it? Invest some money and get back more money than you invested. I thought that is the principal of investing. So that is now known just simply as greed? So if investment is greed then all people who invest their money in anything should be ripped off, right? Was Kevin Bacon and John Malkovich (who have millions already) greedy when they invested millions in Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme, which they believed was a legitimate investment company, and lost it? The got what they deserved, right?<br /><br />Are you greedy because you take a job offer? There are many scams based on advance fee fraud offering people jobs which don't exist and are not based on greed. Are you greedy because you are paying the processing and legal fees to receive an inheritance that some scammer convinced you was left to you by a deceased relative? Are you greedy because you give money to a charity, when in fact it is a scammer posing as a large aid organization? Are you greedy when you send money to a scammer posing as someone in Africa who claims to be in a refugee camp and needs money to get out? Are you greedy when you send money to help rebuild an orphanage that doesn't exist? Are you greedy when you send some scammer money who claims to need money for an organ transplant?<br /><br />Many African scammers who use the internet as a means of sourcing their victims often have forged credentials and use stolen identities such that the victim don't even know they are dealing with someone in Africa to begin with. Before you make blanket accusations about everyone being greedy who falls for a scam, I think you should do more homework first.<br /><br />And finally, is greed a punishable crime? And is it a crime under which a penalty should be imposed that you lose all your money to some scammer? And who made these scammers the law enforcers to be handing down the sentences to these greedy people who deserve to be penalized? So the scammers are doing the world a lot of good by sorting out these greedy people and taking their money away from them, right? Just old fashioned good Samaritans these scammers are, right?<br /><br />I say the scammers are being greedy for scamming people in the first place and should be punished themselves rather than being left to profit from their activities. From some of the things people write they make it sound as if what the scammers are doing is right and not wrong and it is the victims who are wrong for being greedy. A truly pathetic and pedestrian view really.

<br />Get real, please. These guys not only trade on greed, most of the time it's wannabe criminal greed. <br /><br />Black money scam is "sold" as a way of defrauding customs or the tax authorities.<br /><br />Unclaimed account scam is an offer of a commission to help steal money.<br /><br />Inheritances from "deceased relatives" you never heard of and who don't exist?<br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I would send them all home in a heartbeat. But if they target you it's because they sense that you might (just might) be a tiny bit bent yourself.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

You raise some good points. But to say the victims deserve what they got and should be punished for their desires is not right. It is just a simple and irresponsible way of not addressing the underlying problem of the need to get rid of the scammers by saying the victims got what they deserve. I actually see the victims as more gullible rather than greedy and the scammers the greedy ones. As for who they target, no, they target everyone, even people like myself who give them dark stares and ignore them as they try to chat me up while I am briskly walking by.

[Kitsch22]

You raise some good points. But to say the victims deserve what they got and should be punished for their desires is not right. It is just a simple and irresponsible way of not addressing the underlying problem of the need to get rid of the scammers by saying the victims got what they deserve. I actually see the victims as more gullible rather than greedy and the scammers the greedy ones. As for who they target, no, they target everyone, even people like myself who give them dark stares and ignore them as they try to chat me up while I am briskly walking by.

I am not really sure what truly is "deserved" by the (wannabe criminal) victims. Presumably it is the punishment which the courts would have handed out if their intended enterprise had succeeded and had been detected by the authorities. So (for example) a westerner who offers to assist in removing dishonestly, say, $10,000,000 from a "dormant account" at the National Bank of Nigeria ought really to serve a lengthy term in one of the tougher gaols in that country, wouldn't you say?

[JohnnyJohn]

Sure, if someone is knowingly aiding and abetting in a criminal act then that is illegal and should be punishable as you said, but that is not the case most of the time with these internet scams. Maybe only 20% of the time or less are people actually agreeing to do something illegal for the scammers and 80% of the time the scammer's format is based on something else which does not sound illegal at all. So if you want to talk about 419 internet scams we are now getting into a very different genre from the street scams I was alerting people about.

Most of the cyber scammers also promise the victim that the arrangement is "100% Risk Free" and "Violates No Laws". Since it is normal for the potential victim to be concerned and ask if they are getting involved with something illegal, the scammers usually lay these assurances out within the 2nd or 3rd scripted email exchange. So most potential victims are lead to believe what they are being asked to do is not illegal, and this point is cleared up even before the scam really gets under way.

Most of the particular type of 419 scams you are referring to though are done by scammers pretending to be officers of an actual bank in Africa and send fake ID cards etc to prove their authenticity. If someone contacted you as an officer of the bank you would assume the transaction is not illegal of course, again assuming you were gullible enough to believe he is really contacting you from that bank and that the scan of the ID card he is sending you is real in the first place. It is hard to believe that people fall for it with their poorly written emails with bad English, badly forged documents, and crap looking ID card scans, I know, but a report released in January of this year by an organization in Amsterdam known as the FICFF (Foundation of Investigation for Cross-border Financial Fraud) concluded that a total of 9.3 Billion dollars was lost globally to 419 scams in 2009 alone and that the figure is growing on average by 5% per year!

Also, many of the 419 scam mails also discuss the need for an overseas partner to help them transfer the money out of Africa because it involves problems with the current corrupt government not letting them conduct ordinary business in their own country, etc. The reasons why they need an overseas partner to receive the money on their behalf in this legal transaction goes on and on, but I think you probably get my point.

Again, I wouldn't call it greed. To me, greed implies some sort of sinister motive. I don't think even people who want to get something for nothing have any kind of sinister motive or are wanting to do something illegal. I think it's more that a good opportunity fell in their lap so they are going to take advantage of it.

Edited April 7, 2010 by JohnnyJohn

[ALFREDO]

I never talk to the African males in the Sukhumvit area, but I talked more than once to the African females there, ;-)

did until now not get scammed from them.

[Powerband]

I agree with the OP something has to be done about the African criminal influx. No other race of people from any other continent has set up a 'crack alley' in Nana other than the Africans. (besides thai).

Whenever any nationality brings in a drug as evil as cocaine as well as a strain of AIDS distinct to that country, action should be taken.

These people have nothing to lose in their own countries, and going to a Thai jail you get 3 meals per day.

Taking action is no different than taking action on the drug dealer that just moved into your neighborhood, theirs nothing racist about it.

But did you know the majority of Africans do not live in the Nana area? They just go there to 'work' it. Go around the Srinakarin Seacon Square area on Soi Supapong...and you will see where the majority of them actually live.

Solution, require AIDS testing before entering Thailand as well as enforce the 20k baht requirement to enter into the country.

[DragonQuest]

Power you must be white, dont assume most of them are all bad...

[Powerband]

So should I assume all of them are good?

[DragonQuest]

Im sure there is just as much white peolpe that are bad if not good, theres always going to be good and bad in this world.

[Kitsch22]

Sure, if someone is knowingly aiding and abetting in a criminal act then that is illegal and should be punishable as you said, but that is not the case most of the time with these internet scams. Maybe only 20% of the time or less are people actually agreeing to do something illegal for the scammers and 80% of the time the scammer's format is based on something else which does not sound illegal at all. So if you want to talk about 419 internet scams we are now getting into a very different genre from the street scams I was alerting people about.

Most of the cyber scammers also promise the victim that the arrangement is "100% Risk Free" and "Violates No Laws". Since it is normal for the potential victim to be concerned and ask if they are getting involved with something illegal, the scammers usually lay these assurances out within the 2nd or 3rd scripted email exchange. So most potential victims are lead to believe what they are being asked to do is not illegal, and this point is cleared up even before the scam really gets under way.

Most of the particular type of 419 scams you are referring to though are done by scammers pretending to be officers of an actual bank in Africa and send fake ID cards etc to prove their authenticity. If someone contacted you as an officer of the bank you would assume the transaction is not illegal of course, again assuming you were gullible enough to believe he is really contacting you from that bank and that the scan of the ID card he is sending you is real in the first place. It is hard to believe that people fall for it with their poorly written emails with bad English, badly forged documents, and crap looking ID card scans, I know, but a report released in January of this year by an organization in Amsterdam known as the FICFF (Foundation of Investigation for Cross-border Financial Fraud) concluded that a total of 9.3 Billion dollars was lost globally to 419 scams in 2009 alone and that the figure is growing on average by 5% per year!

Also, many of the 419 scam mails also discuss the need for an overseas partner to help them transfer the money out of Africa because it involves problems with the current corrupt government not letting them conduct ordinary business in their own country, etc. The reasons why they need an overseas partner to receive the money on their behalf in this legal transaction goes on and on, but I think you probably get my point.

Again, I wouldn't call it greed. To me, greed implies some sort of sinister motive. I don't think even people who want to get something for nothing have any kind of sinister motive or are wanting to do something illegal. I think it's more that a good opportunity fell in their lap so they are going to take advantage of it.

Sounds as though you might think it okay to pick up and keep a bank-note accidentally dropped in the street by somebody else. I would classify that as (a) greedy, ( dishonest and © criminal.

On advance-fee frauds generally, I can comment only on the basis of my own (admittedly statistically insignificant and unrepresentative) personal observations. I have seen only one approach that could possibly be described as "honest" in the eyes of the recipient and that was one where the funds in question were (supposedly) destined to do God's holy charitable work (with a nice commission for the "helper" along the way). In every other case there has always been an indication that there was a good reason why the party approached should not go to the authorities. Sometimes tax evasion, sometimes international currency control, sometimes unfair government oppression, but always something that a strictly honest person must recognise as being at least potentially "wrong".

I say again (so as to avoid any risk of giving a contrary impression) that I do not intend to justify the actions of the scammers by even an atom's weight. But so far as the "victims" are concerned, I have yet to see a case where "som nam naa" does not apply.

[atyclb]

O have been approached by Liberian males in Rachada Carrefour trying to get me interested in Gold business. They could barely answer my questions. They had no office, just arrived in Thailand, and say they are here to assess business prospects.

Thus, we can add Africans to the list of scammers, criminals, drug dealers, etc etc. Actually it is more democratic as most of the scammers in Thailand seem to be Caucasian. At least the Africans don't seem to be pedophiles.

[F1fanatic]

O have been approached by Liberian males in Rachada Carrefour trying to get me interested in Gold business. They could barely answer my questions. They had no office, just arrived in Thailand, and say they are here to assess business prospects.

Thus, we can add Africans to the list of scammers, criminals, drug dealers, etc etc. Actually it is more democratic as most of the scammers in Thailand seem to be Caucasian. At least the Africans don't seem to be pedophiles.

Based (entirely) on your post - it seems they're stupid as well - who the hel_l is going to fall for that sort of scam other than even more stupid people?

[F1fanatic]

i am african myself, i am from guinea (west africa) and am teaching here. it is sad to see how those people in sukumvit, or pathunam give bad image to all africans. I know most people out there are not racist but i know it is hard for you to idstinguish. for me i believe the thai police should take tuff actions against anyone doing wrong businesses here including africans of course.

if you to pattaya, you see a of europeans, americans doing drugs business, pornography, child abuse and even in bangkok we see those things all the time. we see iranians robbing banks and shops but people only mention about what blacks do and that is just hypocracy to me.. i hope we can be honest with ourselves and the police should just do what is right...

You go to a thai embassy for visas, you are in trouble if you are african and that is just racism. An asian or american or european goes there, he might just need a paper to fill up and no further question but africans are asked to bring so many different papers, they are asked to show money, they are asked to pay money when they wanna come back to bangkok... all those nonsenses are done to them... where is your justice.. so some of them just decide to live here with no visa and pay 20000 at the immigration when ready to leave. there are also non africans with no visa in bangkok but police just dont give a dam_n about it.

Of course it's hypocrisy. What would you expect? These are the same people that when they come to your country they are the first ones to scam, steal natural resources, sell weapons to rebel factions in your community to keep your people from uniting, buy up blood diamonds to keep you down....historically it's the Europeans who have been the worlds biggest and most prolific scammers the globe over. Yet when they come to Thailand they wanna complain about falling for the Micky mouse scams a few Africans come up with.

Yeah it's wrong but it's gonna be that way for awhile until Africa gets it's manufacturing infrastructure, security, and it's investment laws together to become the new Asia in terms of exports of products and services....

Soon though Brother, soon, We may even live to see the day

Was reading your post and nodding my head until I came to the part I've emboldened! Somehow I find it hard to think of Thailand as the 'word' in infrastructure, security and investment laws......

[4.real]

do they really prey on westerners.

i rarely see both toghether!

USUALLY WHEN SOMEONE SAYS THEY R NOT RACISST = THEY DEFINTELY R.

I absolutely ADORE west indians and Africans...

They have done SOOO much for my home country [england].

I think it just wonderful that they are now free to travel the world without discrimination...

I now reside here in Thailand because I feel so inferior to these supreme beings that now proliferate in my home country...

[F1fanatic]

do they really prey on westerners.

i rarely see both toghether!

USUALLY WHEN SOMEONE SAYS THEY R NOT RACISST = THEY DEFINTELY R.

I absolutely ADORE west indians and Africans...

They have done SOOO much for my home country [england].

I think it just wonderful that they are now free to travel the world without discrimination...

I now reside here in Thailand because I feel so inferior to these supreme beings that now proliferate in my home country...

No, us Brits have done it all to ourselves - to blame anyone else is just an excuse.

[powderpuff]

I saw a Black African woman sitting in the beer garden today - clearing smiling & offering herself. So just like Pattaya where Russians whores are competing with Thais - so now it's in your face in Bangkok too.

Amazing.

[hawthorne]

Criminals go where they can prosper.

[hawthorne]

do they really prey on westerners.

i rarely see both toghether!

USUALLY WHEN SOMEONE SAYS THEY R NOT RACISST = THEY DEFINTELY R.

I absolutely ADORE west indians and Africans...

They have done SOOO much for my home country [england].

I think it just wonderful that they are now free to travel the world without discrimination...

I now reside here in Thailand because I feel so inferior to these supreme beings that now proliferate in my home country...

WTFO!!!!

You are mentally inferior, mate

[SunSeek01]

What I don't get is, what are they doing here? Generally, people from Africa don't come to Thailand for a holiday. Yes, there are exceptions. So if they are not here for a holiday, then what? Is it not clear?

But, if they are here legally, then so be it, they can do what they like and take their chances. The risk may be low but the cost is quite high if caught.

My beef is, if I was over my visa, or did not even have one, I don't think I'd be treated too well. What's the deal?

On a different note, I was in the cross through Soi between 5 and 7 one time, playing pool in the big pool bar, and there were a group of about 6 very tall guys from Africa playing too. I was lucky to be with a very pretty lady and our pool table was right next to theirs. They were nothing but polite and we all had fun.