Democrat MPs Angry Over Suthep's Soft Handling Of Red-Shirts

[anotherpeter]

Gordon Brown doesn't dissolve parliament. He asks The Queen to dissolve parliament. There's a very significant difference.

The same happens here. In 2006, Thaksin asked the King permission to dissolve parliament.

[Thai at Heart]

The airport management had no choice but to close. The yellows caused that.

Similarly, the shopping centre management need to close the centres. The reds caused that.

The funny thing about the airport per se, is that there was and still is no way to close the airport off. They still haven't put in appropriate barriers and gates to prevent it happening again.

[anotherpeter]

The airport management had no choice but to close. The yellows caused that.

Similarly, the shopping centre management need to close the centres. The reds caused that.

The funny thing about the airport per se, is that there was and still is no way to close the airport off. They still haven't put in appropriate barriers and gates to prevent it happening again.

I went through the airport of the weekend. There were army/police check points off the express way and soldiers placed every few hundred metres along the airport entrance.

You can't have gates because then you are effectively closing the airport anyway. You have to let passengers/staff through. Anyone could cause just as much damage by shutting down the expressways near (not going into) the airport . The airport could still function, but passengers etc would have a hard time getting there.

[kissdani]

Now it seems the dems now in power are facing party dissolution ?

What's going on ?

They have been facing that for ages. A week or so ago the EC said they would conclude the case on April 20.

That would explain why there a group of 30 MP voice their disappointment now. It isn't about to push Abhisit, but send signals to their constituencies. After a dissolution the new "Dems" will be without Abhisit Party leader get banned from politics. Korn and Ong-art will probably join New Politics Party.

I wish them good luck.

Pretty low chance I think Korn would go to New Politics Party.

Korn is potential PM material if we ever go to a real democracy here; he doesn't need to go mix with the pig food like PT, New Politics, et al.

I agree with you on Korns talent, his skills and expertise. But don't forget that he is pretty yellow and this is good. Korn will be the man that leads the country into New Politics. His support is more than a open secret, don't get blinded by anti-royalist and anti-democratic propaganda. New Politics is the solution to bring the country forward. Korn knows that and he had said often what his stance on Thai democracy is. Korn is on the very conservative side, nothing wrong with that, the conservatives are with the King.

[geriatrickid]

I agree with you on Korns talent, his skills and expertise. But don't forget that he is pretty yellow and this is good. Korn will be the man that leads the country into New Politics. His support is more than a open secret, don't get blinded by anti-royalist and anti-democratic propaganda. New Politics is the solution to bring the country forward. Korn knows that and he had said often what his stance on Thai democracy is. Korn is on the very conservative side, nothing wrong with that, the conservatives are with the King.

Mr. korn is not PM material, especially not after he undermined the PM's position and authority. If the man had any integrity he would have resigned instead of issuing the threat. It is not a cabinet minister's place to publicly squabble with his leader. His actions were motivated by self interest only.

Yes, Mr. Korn is yellow through and through.

Try getting someone like that elected in a polarized country. It cannot happen.

You call him conservative. Really? Perhaps if you mean to conserve the system of privilige for those born to the manor. Can you name something this minister has achieved while in his position? What did he do in terms of addressing corruption in the market? How about reforms to the lending system to stop the usury? Any rules and enforcement on conflicts of interest, disclosure etc. etc. The answer is a resounding NO. He's done nothing except jockey for position. Next cabinet shuffle he's most likely history. Good riddance.

[TAWP]

The blocking of the interesection is not shutting down any business.... it is the owners of the places who have shut them down of their own free will.

Many have accused the redshirts of shutting down the shopping center but as Levelhead pointed out so clearly, the owners shut the major shopping centers down of their own choosing. There are businesses that are still open and are frankly getting customers because other places are shut down.

The Yellow supporters always point out that the yellows didn't shut down the airport, but the airport management did. The red supporters say the airport management had no choice, so it was the yellows that caused it.

You can't have it both ways.

Safety issues would dictate that the airport had to be closed. People had broken into the control tower for gods sake. I would say that management of the large shopping centres have probably been quite responsible with closing. I would imagine the protesters would have started camping inside.

They never broke into the control tower, that myth has been dispelled many times.

In any way, to say that the reds actions isn't causing the closing now is ludicrous. Business owners don't aim to lose money for fun.

[khunjamespittman]

Today Gordon Brown PM of UK announced he is disolving Parliment and will hold an election on May 6, 2010 ( 1 Month from today).

Not good enough, it needs to be 15 days or the city will burn.

Might I inquire as to you are speaking for? I didn't see the offer being made yet.

Well CNN has nothing about Brown calling an election.

Maybe they are waiting to he actually DOES it before announcing he has...

Animatic, you know that is false. CNN World News has run 3 reports in the last 2 hours showing PM Brown announcing the new election and critique by the opposition.

Why do you persist in putting out false posts? Please try to add something positive and true to the conversation.

[khunjamespittman]

Gordon Brown doesn't dissolve parliament. He asks The Queen to dissolve parliament. There's a very significant difference.

The same happens here. In 2006, Thaksin asked the King permission to dissolve parliament.

What a pathetic post? If you had seen PM Brown's announcement you would understand that I was only reporting what he said. For your information it has been broadcast on CNN 3 times in the last 2 hours.

I suggest that if you have a semantics problem take it up with PM Brown

[Thai at Heart]

They never broke into the control tower, that myth has been dispelled many times.

In any way, to say that the reds actions isn't causing the closing now is ludicrous. Business owners don't aim to lose money for fun.

You are looking for an arguement where there isn't one. I never said that it wasn't the reds responsibility for the shopping centres being closed. Where we may differ is the idea that the PAD didn't cause the airport to be closed.

[khunjamespittman]

Gordon Brown doesn't dissolve parliament. He asks The Queen to dissolve parliament. There's a very significant difference.

He is also not bowing to unruly mobs roaming the streets ... he is doing it because parliament has become ineffective being equally divided. This subject has no replace in this topic. Completely different set of circumstances and reasons behind that decision compared to what this thread is about.

Ineffective! Thanks! You made my point. When is the election?

[rogerdee123]

Gordon Brown doesn't dissolve parliament. He asks The Queen to dissolve parliament. There's a very significant difference.

He is also not bowing to unruly mobs roaming the streets ... he is doing it because parliament has become ineffective being equally divided. This subject has no replace in this topic. Completely different set of circumstances and reasons behind that decision compared to what this thread is about.

Ineffective! Thanks! You made my point. When is the election?

I think we all should take a chill pill ... or better yet down a couple bottles of Singha.

[Netfan]

Gordon Brown doesn't dissolve parliament. He asks The Queen to dissolve parliament. There's a very significant difference.

He is also not bowing to unruly mobs roaming the streets ... he is doing it because parliament has become ineffective being equally divided. This subject has no replace in this topic. Completely different set of circumstances and reasons behind that decision compared to what this thread is about.

Ineffective! Thanks! You made my point. When is the election?

Once again, it would have been in 9 months had the Reds had the sense to accept Abhisit's offer- I wonder what the response of the remaining demonstrators would have been to this offer had they been allowed to hear it from a neutral source. Since they never had that chance (red style democracy in action- the wishes and word of one man) we will never know. Now they will return home with nothing but the ill-will of the people of Bangkok. Hopefully this will be without a violent end.

[kissdani]

I agree with you on Korns talent, his skills and expertise. But don't forget that he is pretty yellow and this is good. Korn will be the man that leads the country into New Politics. His support is more than a open secret, don't get blinded by anti-royalist and anti-democratic propaganda. New Politics is the solution to bring the country forward. Korn knows that and he had said often what his stance on Thai democracy is. Korn is on the very conservative side, nothing wrong with that, the conservatives are with the King.

Mr. korn is not PM material, especially not after he undermined the PM's position and authority. If the man had any integrity he would have resigned instead of issuing the threat. It is not a cabinet minister's place to publicly squabble with his leader. His actions were motivated by self interest only.

Yes, Mr. Korn is yellow through and through.

Try getting someone like that elected in a polarized country. It cannot happen.

You call him conservative. Really? Perhaps if you mean to conserve the system of privilige for those born to the manor. Can you name something this minister has achieved while in his position? What did he do in terms of addressing corruption in the market? How about reforms to the lending system to stop the usury? Any rules and enforcement on conflicts of interest, disclosure etc. etc. The answer is a resounding NO. He's done nothing except jockey for position. Next cabinet shuffle he's most likely history. Good riddance.

The current parliamentarian system is in a crisis. The mob in the street isn't much helpful. The country suffer and new election will not be a solution. A reform is needed and that reform will probably come after the Democrats dissolution end of this time.

Of course with one year in office Thailand isn't a golden land yet. The FM don't hand out free candies to the electorate only to get re-elected. Positive results, fruits of good work need time and stability. A reform and New Politics will bring that stability. That is the way to move forward.

What the country not need is a revolution all the time a new shirt color comes in fashion.

[molsey]

Today Gordon Brown PM of UK announced he is disolving Parliment and will hold an election on May 6, 2010 ( 1 Month from today).

Wouldn't it be a nice gesture in Abhisit demonstrated that he can run his government as good as Gordon Brown and disolve Parliment and schedule an election onf the same day as the UK. Surely he must concede if the UK can do it so then can Thailand. Both he an Gordon Brown were educated in the UK.

Yes, and why did Labour call for an election on May 06th?

Err, because their 5 year term is up on June 03rd.

(The last election there was in 2005 and 5 years is the maximum permitted in the UK before you must call fresh general elections).

Note that is less than ONE month before the latest possible date.

A little knowledge.... and all that mmm?

So, I agree with your sentiment entirely, .... Abhisit should wait until circa November 2011 before calling fresh elections.

[kissdani]

Today Gordon Brown PM of UK announced he is disolving Parliment and will hold an election on May 6, 2010 ( 1 Month from today).

Wouldn't it be a nice gesture in Abhisit demonstrated that he can run his government as good as Gordon Brown and disolve Parliment and schedule an election onf the same day as the UK. Surely he must concede if the UK can do it so then can Thailand. Both he an Gordon Brown were educated in the UK.

Yes, and why did Labour call for an election on May 06th?

Err, because their 5 year term is up on June 03rd.

(The last election there was in 2005 and 5 years is the maximum permitted in the UK before you must call fresh general elections).

Note that is less than ONE month before the latest possible date.

A little knowledge.... and all that mmm?

Though i can imagine that some will argue that this was the best thing PM Gordon ever did in his entire career.

Edited April 6, 2010 by kissdani

[khunjamespittman]

I agree with you on Korns talent, his skills and expertise. But don't forget that he is pretty yellow and this is good. Korn will be the man that leads the country into New Politics. His support is more than a open secret, don't get blinded by anti-royalist and anti-democratic propaganda. New Politics is the solution to bring the country forward. Korn knows that and he had said often what his stance on Thai democracy is. Korn is on the very conservative side, nothing wrong with that, the conservatives are with the King.

Mr. korn is not PM material, especially not after he undermined the PM's position and authority. If the man had any integrity he would have resigned instead of issuing the threat. It is not a cabinet minister's place to publicly squabble with his leader. His actions were motivated by self interest only.

Yes, Mr. Korn is yellow through and through.

Try getting someone like that elected in a polarized country. It cannot happen.

You call him conservative. Really? Perhaps if you mean to conserve the system of privilige for those born to the manor. Can you name something this minister has achieved while in his position? What did he do in terms of addressing corruption in the market? How about reforms to the lending system to stop the usury? Any rules and enforcement on conflicts of interest, disclosure etc. etc. The answer is a resounding NO. He's done nothing except jockey for position. Next cabinet shuffle he's most likely history. Good riddance.

The current parliamentarian system is in a crisis. The mob in the street isn't much helpful. The country suffer and new election will not be a solution. A reform is needed and that reform will probably come after the Democrats dissolution end of this time.

Of course with one year in office Thailand isn't a golden land yet. The FM don't hand out free candies to the electorate only to get re-elected. Positive results, fruits of good work need time and stability. A reform and New Politics will bring that stability. That is the way to move forward.

What the country not need is a revolution all the time a new shirt color comes in fashion.

I would like to see someone making suggestions to solve the problem. What is see is "I want it my way". I suggested that PM Abhisit make the same offer as PM Gordon Brown is making for the UK. The response was there are many differences. It can't be done. When you parse all of the responses, nothing justifies rationalizing the difference between the 1 month that PM Brown is using in UK and the 9 months PM Abhisit offered in the negotiations. Countries in far more difficult circumstances have held successful elections. It is easy to make excuses but that is not helpful. The argument that "I don't want to make earlier than 9 months because I are right" doesn't is not a sign of leadership. Tell me of any parlimentary goverment that has ever been chosen the way this one was. Please!

What disaster is going to happen if a new election is held in one month? At this time none is evident. What good happens if it is held in 1 month? It would be very difficult for even the most stubborn on either side (maybe not on TV because most people don't have a great deal at stake, and they seem to argue if they think they will lose 50 baht) can deny the legitimacy of an international observed election. I believe most people are rational when confronted by the facts, substantiated by independent international observers will support whatever the results are and that will deter the very small minority who won't agree to anything that they didn't make.

It doesn't matter that this is not like the UK. It is just modeling after one of the most respected parlimentary governments in the world.

I heard all your excuses and complaints. Now, it is put up or shut up time! What is your solution that resolves the problems I outlined quickly? Real solutions please! No more of the insults and name calling and personal biases.

[hammered]

I agree with you on Korns talent, his skills and expertise. But don't forget that he is pretty yellow and this is good. Korn will be the man that leads the country into New Politics. His support is more than a open secret, don't get blinded by anti-royalist and anti-democratic propaganda. New Politics is the solution to bring the country forward. Korn knows that and he had said often what his stance on Thai democracy is. Korn is on the very conservative side, nothing wrong with that, the conservatives are with the King.

Mr. korn is not PM material, especially not after he undermined the PM's position and authority. If the man had any integrity he would have resigned instead of issuing the threat. It is not a cabinet minister's place to publicly squabble with his leader. His actions were motivated by self interest only.

Yes, Mr. Korn is yellow through and through.

Try getting someone like that elected in a polarized country. It cannot happen.

You call him conservative. Really? Perhaps if you mean to conserve the system of privilige for those born to the manor. Can you name something this minister has achieved while in his position? What did he do in terms of addressing corruption in the market? How about reforms to the lending system to stop the usury? Any rules and enforcement on conflicts of interest, disclosure etc. etc. The answer is a resounding NO. He's done nothing except jockey for position. Next cabinet shuffle he's most likely history. Good riddance.

The current parliamentarian system is in a crisis. The mob in the street isn't much helpful. The country suffer and new election will not be a solution. A reform is needed and that reform will probably come after the Democrats dissolution end of this time.

Of course with one year in office Thailand isn't a golden land yet. The FM don't hand out free candies to the electorate only to get re-elected. Positive results, fruits of good work need time and stability. A reform and New Politics will bring that stability. That is the way to move forward.

What the country not need is a revolution all the time a new shirt color comes in fashion.

I would like to see someone making suggestions to solve the problem. What is see is "I want it my way". I suggested that PM Abhisit make the same offer as PM Gordon Brown is making for the UK. The response was there are many differences. It can't be done. When you parse all of the responses, nothing justifies rationalizing the difference between the 1 month that PM Brown is using in UK and the 9 months PM Abhisit offered in the negotiations. Countries in far more difficult circumstances have held successful elections. It is easy to make excuses but that is not helpful. The argument that "I don't want to make earlier than 9 months because I are right" doesn't is not a sign of leadership. Tell me of any parlimentary goverment that has ever been chosen the way this one was. Please!

What disaster is going to happen if a new election is held in one month? At this time none is evident. What good happens if it is held in 1 month? It would be very difficult for even the most stubborn on either side (maybe not on TV because most people don't have a great deal at stake, and they seem to argue if they think they will lose 50 baht) can deny the legitimacy of an international observed election. I believe most people are rational when confronted by the facts, substantiated by independent international observers will support whatever the results are and that will deter the very small minority who won't agree to anything that they didn't make.

It doesn't matter that this is not like the UK. It is just modeling after one of the most respected parlimentary governments in the world.

I heard all your excuses and complaints. Now, it is put up or shut up time! What is your solution that resolves the problems I outlined quickly? Real solutions please! No more of the insults and name calling and personal biases.

The problem is that now it is giving into a mob. It will set the precedent that the airport set for todays chaos. After the election anyone who can get about 20K onto the streets and cause anarchy will then be able to also demasnd another revote.

Im afraid it is either fight to the death for both sides or asgree on something that both can before an election or this will sadly be repeated again.

Who knows what the answer is but it isnt a simple one, and at the momnent it seems only a minority are calling for a snap election. The timing is actually not important. What is important is getting all to agree on accepting the rules to hold it under and acceptng the outcome. That may not even be possible.

The other thing is that Thaksin hovers over all this like it or not. We will bring back Thaksin after we win elections ands you will all be rich again has been drummed in on the stage, in the "schools" and by the local MPs

No simple solution. You dont have one., I dont have one but that doesnt matter as it will be the thai people who must sort this out and while it mildly intersting for us to debate things it is really up to them and hopefully peacefully but that may not be the case.

[hardy1943]

The PAD did not close the airport.

Hahahaha it never grows old, funny to see that even politicians are using it now and defending the yellow.

Lets do this, lock up the yellow and red shirts, everyone of them and get on with our life.

P.s Sondhi did not even show up for his court case, isnt that slandering the justice system as well? Something everybody talks about over the red shirts. And i don't even know how that guy can still be walking free as he should have gotten the death penalty for remarks he made over the RF when he was drunk.

Let these guys protest it is their right, nothing will come from it though and if they win the yellow shirts will come out again.

we are living in a cartoon here..

Yes we are! Put them all in a barrel, pull them out, they all look the same have the same the goal to help themselves only.

[10027586]

An immediate dissolution and election is not going to solve anything. The red mob have shown a tendency towards violence and intimidation, and the yellows have too. In those circumstances an election cannot be fair. Also, the rules at present are set by the military, and one suspects that as soon as the reds get their first demand met they'll make new ones (as is the way with blackmailers) about the rules of the election etc. The problem is that the reds don't want to engage in debate, they just want it 'their way'. Given Abhisit seems genuinely willing to listen and compromise I think Thailand is missing a genuine opportunity for change, and in that regard I fear for the future of this great nation. If the reds could engage with Abhisit and discuss the constitution in a meaningful way, without Thaksin in the background pulling the strings so he can get his cash then we could have the right kind of revolution, a peaceful one that could pave the way to Thailand being great.

My big concern regarding the reds getting away with all this is that it shows any criminal organisation can effectively take over bangkok with a small group of people. The potential for such precedent to be misused is extraordinary.

I hope for peace but I'm doubtful, and must confess that I'm considering my future in this amazing place we call Thailand.

[Thai at Heart]

An immediate dissolution and election is not going to solve anything. The red mob have shown a tendency towards violence and intimidation, and the yellows have too. In those circumstances an election cannot be fair. Also, the rules at present are set by the military, and one suspects that as soon as the reds get their first demand met they'll make new ones (as is the way with blackmailers) about the rules of the election etc. The problem is that the reds don't want to engage in debate, they just want it 'their way'. Given Abhisit seems genuinely willing to listen and compromise I think Thailand is missing a genuine opportunity for change, and in that regard I fear for the future of this great nation. If the reds could engage with Abhisit and discuss the constitution in a meaningful way, without Thaksin in the background pulling the strings so he can get his cash then we could have the right kind of revolution, a peaceful one that could pave the way to Thailand being great.

My big concern regarding the reds getting away with all this is that it shows any criminal organisation can effectively take over bangkok with a small group of people. The potential for such precedent to be misused is extraordinary.

I hope for peace but I'm doubtful, and must confess that I'm considering my future in this amazing place we call Thailand.

I think the Reds are simply proving that the precedent holds. A group of a different colour tested the waters a while ago on this one.

[hammered]

An immediate dissolution and election is not going to solve anything. The red mob have shown a tendency towards violence and intimidation, and the yellows have too. In those circumstances an election cannot be fair. Also, the rules at present are set by the military, and one suspects that as soon as the reds get their first demand met they'll make new ones (as is the way with blackmailers) about the rules of the election etc. The problem is that the reds don't want to engage in debate, they just want it 'their way'. Given Abhisit seems genuinely willing to listen and compromise I think Thailand is missing a genuine opportunity for change, and in that regard I fear for the future of this great nation. If the reds could engage with Abhisit and discuss the constitution in a meaningful way, without Thaksin in the background pulling the strings so he can get his cash then we could have the right kind of revolution, a peaceful one that could pave the way to Thailand being great.

My big concern regarding the reds getting away with all this is that it shows any criminal organisation can effectively take over bangkok with a small group of people. The potential for such precedent to be misused is extraordinary.

I hope for peace but I'm doubtful, and must confess that I'm considering my future in this amazing place we call Thailand.

I think the Reds are simply proving that the precedent holds. A group of a different colour tested the waters a while ago on this one.

And by giving an immedaite election a new precedent is started. Thius time it will be reversed and yelolows can just do a red and demand elections any time they want. This isnt sorted by an immediate election but by the idiots controlling things growing up and agreeing a set of rules they will all abide by so the country can move forward and the silly power games can stop. If nobody agrees on the rules there you can have a hundred elections. If peopel are not allowed to campaign in certain areas the election wont even be democratic. Sad reality is that it is grow up time for the players

[animatic]

Gordon Brown doesn't dissolve parliament. He asks The Queen to dissolve parliament. There's a very significant difference.

He is also not bowing to unruly mobs roaming the streets ... he is doing it because parliament has become ineffective being equally divided. This subject has no replace in this topic. Completely different set of circumstances and reasons behind that decision compared to what this thread is about.

Ineffective! Thanks! You made my point. When is the election?

Ineffective ONLY when PTP comes to Parliament, without them things get done.

Abhisit still gets things done in spite of the unceasing distractions Team Thaksin tries to put up.

The end product of a Red win here is dictatorship, revenge and ineffective government,

all rolled in to one lethal bitter pill for Thailand to choke down.

Edited April 6, 2010 by animatic

[molsey]

I agree with you on Korns talent, his skills and expertise. But don't forget that he is pretty yellow and this is good. Korn will be the man that leads the country into New Politics. His support is more than a open secret, don't get blinded by anti-royalist and anti-democratic propaganda. New Politics is the solution to bring the country forward. Korn knows that and he had said often what his stance on Thai democracy is. Korn is on the very conservative side, nothing wrong with that, the conservatives are with the King.

Mr. korn is not PM material, especially not after he undermined the PM's position and authority. If the man had any integrity he would have resigned instead of issuing the threat. It is not a cabinet minister's place to publicly squabble with his leader. His actions were motivated by self interest only.

Yes, Mr. Korn is yellow through and through.

Try getting someone like that elected in a polarized country. It cannot happen.

You call him conservative. Really? Perhaps if you mean to conserve the system of privilige for those born to the manor. Can you name something this minister has achieved while in his position? What did he do in terms of addressing corruption in the market? How about reforms to the lending system to stop the usury? Any rules and enforcement on conflicts of interest, disclosure etc. etc. The answer is a resounding NO. He's done nothing except jockey for position. Next cabinet shuffle he's most likely history. Good riddance.

The current parliamentarian system is in a crisis. The mob in the street isn't much helpful. The country suffer and new election will not be a solution. A reform is needed and that reform will probably come after the Democrats dissolution end of this time.

Of course with one year in office Thailand isn't a golden land yet. The FM don't hand out free candies to the electorate only to get re-elected. Positive results, fruits of good work need time and stability. A reform and New Politics will bring that stability. That is the way to move forward.

What the country not need is a revolution all the time a new shirt color comes in fashion.

I would like to see someone making suggestions to solve the problem. What is see is "I want it my way". I suggested that PM Abhisit make the same offer as PM Gordon Brown is making for the UK. The response was there are many differences. It can't be done. When you parse all of the responses, nothing justifies rationalizing the difference between the 1 month that PM Brown is using in UK and the 9 months PM Abhisit offered in the negotiations. Countries in far more difficult circumstances have held successful elections. It is easy to make excuses but that is not helpful. The argument that "I don't want to make earlier than 9 months because I are right" doesn't is not a sign of leadership. Tell me of any parlimentary goverment that has ever been chosen the way this one was. Please!

What disaster is going to happen if a new election is held in one month? At this time none is evident. What good happens if it is held in 1 month? It would be very difficult for even the most stubborn on either side (maybe not on TV because most people don't have a great deal at stake, and they seem to argue if they think they will lose 50 baht) can deny the legitimacy of an international observed election. I believe most people are rational when confronted by the facts, substantiated by independent international observers will support whatever the results are and that will deter the very small minority who won't agree to anything that they didn't make.

It doesn't matter that this is not like the UK. It is just modeling after one of the most respected parlimentary governments in the world.

I heard all your excuses and complaints. Now, it is put up or shut up time! What is your solution that resolves the problems I outlined quickly? Real solutions please! No more of the insults and name calling and personal biases.

I would suggest time,.. apparently it's a great healer.

Seriously, proceed with patience until next week, when there is a strong possibility that many of the demonstrators will prefer to go home for Songkran.

Until then, an army / police cordon could stop the demonstrator's from leaving the area to go to other locations. Let's see how long the 'leaders' can stay put without their creature comforts.

Similarly no re-inforcements could then get in.

Of course, it doesn't appease those whose shops / businesses are shut in the meantime, and depends upon the army / police actually being able to do their jobs.

If the reds go postal, then all bets are off. In that case, it will be clear who wants to perpetrate violence, (and actually already is clear to most).

They could easily be warned that water cannons & tear gas will be used after say 1 hour, and reminded that they have the option to leave now. Frankly, anyone still there after an hour has passed has already had all the warnings they deserve. Their choice!

Note that the use of Water Cannons &/or Tear Gas does not have to be life threatening either. Unlike previous governments, this one actually seems to want to prevent bloodshed.

[TheOldWolf]

Where is Veera?? I have not heard of him for several days, but of course i could have missed something

[animatic]

If the cycle leading to repeated mob attempts to rule the government ,

and repeated mob forced early elections if a government isn't on their side,

isn't stopped it never will be.

This is a curse we can not wish on any country.

The line must be drawn in the sand and action taken if that line is crossed.

One can HOPE that the needed action will be minimally violent or better none at all.

But if that doesn't work, then what does must be applied, or the decent into a

permanent mob driven hel_l will be swift and sure.

[blaze]

It appears Abhisit as deemed there is enough public disgust gained/ aimed at the red side,

and enough backing opprobrium accumulated on the Gov. side, to make a move.

He has tried to 'let the sleeping dog lie',

and tried to entice the leaders with reasonable concessions,

and shown a truly tolerant side under extreme provocations.

But the camel's back is broken and no strawman comments will turn this back.

Abhisit is about to show he 'had a pair' all along,

but was giving the Reds all the possible time to be agreeable,

or screw up.

They picked the later, som nom na I guess.

Too sad for the conned red rank and file, I hope injuries are kept to a minimum.

Can't help but wonder if the authorities hesitance to bring down the iron boot is due to- first, their not wishing to confirm the Reds accusations of double standards- and second that they are abiding the old maxim- keep your friends close and your enemies closer. If the Redshirts go back redfaced (shame or blood) to their powerbases in the provinces at this point- with the relatively lower level of state authority up there, we could see something much more serious unfold than the mere shutting down of a few hiso dept stores though in the short run, the destruction of state authority in the provinces won't affect Bangkok- in the long run- it most certainly will.

Edited April 6, 2010 by blaze

[blaze]

Note that the use of Water Cannons &/or Tear Gas does not have to be life threatening either. Unlike previous governments, this one actually seems to want to prevent bloodshed.

You belive that the previous governments wanted bloodshed? They weren't satisfied with merely dispersing the PAD but actively sought bloodshed?

Do you confuse effect with intent?

If there is bloodshed in this event will you condemn the current government as actively wanting that effect? (as you sarcastically imply the Somchai gov't did).

This is not a made for tv movie- every government does what it feels it must do to preserve social order. If there is bloodshed in Bangkok- and Abhisit and his advisors/handlers aren't stupid- watch what happens in the provinces--- and in Bangkok down the road. Somchai was faced with exactly the same quandry- he made a choice- and tragedy ensued- tragedy which hastened the demise of his government. Abhisit doesn't want the same fate. While the picture of government leaders as wimpy, ballsy, compassionate and cruel might be attractive to some, the fact is that most are motivated by pure practicalities. And in no case does a government regard the wanton spilling of blood as practical.

If the current government believed that a greater evil could be allayed with the use of some bloodshed in the capitol=- they won't hesitate.

And if they believe that bloodshed in the capitol will only lead to further disruption of civil order- they will hesitate.

[blaze]

An immediate dissolution and election is not going to solve anything. The red mob have shown a tendency towards violence and intimidation, and the yellows have too. In those circumstances an election cannot be fair. Also, the rules at present are set by the military, and one suspects that as soon as the reds get their first demand met they'll make new ones (as is the way with blackmailers) about the rules of the election etc. The problem is that the reds don't want to engage in debate, they just want it 'their way'. Given Abhisit seems genuinely willing to listen and compromise I think Thailand is missing a genuine opportunity for change, and in that regard I fear for the future of this great nation. If the reds could engage with Abhisit and discuss the constitution in a meaningful way, without Thaksin in the background pulling the strings so he can get his cash then we could have the right kind of revolution, a peaceful one that could pave the way to Thailand being great.

My big concern regarding the reds getting away with all this is that it shows any criminal organisation can effectively take over bangkok with a small group of people. The potential for such precedent to be misused is extraordinary.

I hope for peace but I'm doubtful, and must confess that I'm considering my future in this amazing place we call Thailand.

I think the Reds are simply proving that the precedent holds. A group of a different colour tested the waters a while ago on this one.

And by giving an immedaite election a new precedent is started. Thius time it will be reversed and yelolows can just do a red and demand elections any time they want. This isnt sorted by an immediate election but by the idiots controlling things growing up and agreeing a set of rules they will all abide by so the country can move forward and the silly power games can stop. If nobody agrees on the rules there you can have a hundred elections. If peopel are not allowed to campaign in certain areas the election wont even be democratic. Sad reality is that it is grow up time for the players

The first rule has to be that the constitution of a country, from which all law derives, is sacrosanct. If not, then all returns to custom. And custom too often is the social institutionalization of the law of the jungle. Those that can- will Do.

[molsey]

Note that the use of Water Cannons &/or Tear Gas does not have to be life threatening either. Unlike previous governments, this one actually seems to want to prevent bloodshed.

You belive that the previous governments wanted bloodshed? They weren't satisfied with merely dispersing the PAD but actively sought bloodshed?

Do you confuse effect with intent?

If there is bloodshed in this event will you condemn the current government as actively wanting that effect? (as you sarcastically imply the Somchai gov't did).

This is not a made for tv movie- every government does what it feels it must do to preserve social order. If there is bloodshed in Bangkok- and Abhisit and his advisors/handlers aren't stupid- watch what happens in the provinces--- and in Bangkok down the road. Somchai was faced with exactly the same quandry- he made a choice- and tragedy ensued- tragedy which hastened the demise of his government. Abhisit doesn't want the same fate. While the picture of government leaders as wimpy, ballsy, compassionate and cruel might be attractive to some, the fact is that most are motivated by pure practicalities. And in no case does a government regard the wanton spilling of blood as practical.

If the current government believed that a greater evil could be allayed with the use of some bloodshed in the capitol=- they won't hesitate.

And if they believe that bloodshed in the capitol will only lead to further disruption of civil order- they will hesitate.

There is a difference between not wanting bloodshed, and not caring if bloodshed occurs. Actions speak louder than words don't they? And we very well know how Samak felt. Somchai, as brother-in-law & nominee..... well it wouldn't be much of a stretch, would it now?

And in answer to your question, I hope that there is NO MORE bloodshed..... have you not been keeping up with the blasts all over Bangkok?

[blaze]

Note that the use of Water Cannons &/or Tear Gas does not have to be life threatening either. Unlike previous governments, this one actually seems to want to prevent bloodshed.

You belive that the previous governments wanted bloodshed? They weren't satisfied with merely dispersing the PAD but actively sought bloodshed?

Do you confuse effect with intent?

If there is bloodshed in this event will you condemn the current government as actively wanting that effect? (as you sarcastically imply the Somchai gov't did).

This is not a made for tv movie- every government does what it feels it must do to preserve social order. If there is bloodshed in Bangkok- and Abhisit and his advisors/handlers aren't stupid- watch what happens in the provinces--- and in Bangkok down the road. Somchai was faced with exactly the same quandry- he made a choice- and tragedy ensued- tragedy which hastened the demise of his government. Abhisit doesn't want the same fate. While the picture of government leaders as wimpy, ballsy, compassionate and cruel might be attractive to some, the fact is that most are motivated by pure practicalities. And in no case does a government regard the wanton spilling of blood as practical.

If the current government believed that a greater evil could be allayed with the use of some bloodshed in the capitol=- they won't hesitate.

And if they believe that bloodshed in the capitol will only lead to further disruption of civil order- they will hesitate.

There is a difference between not wanting bloodshed, and not caring if bloodshed occurs. Actions speak louder than words don't they? And we very well know how Samak felt. Somchai, as brother-in-law & nominee..... well it wouldn't be much of a stretch, would it now?

And in answer to your question, I hope that there is NO MORE bloodshed..... have you not been keeping up with the blasts all over Bangkok?

If I were to assume that my brother in law shared my feelings- we'd both be offended.

But again I ask, on what basis do you suggest that either of those guys 'wanted' bloodshed?

Both of them had enough problems without yielding to some kind of bloodlust.

What they wanted was an expedient end to a crisis- exactly the same thing the current government wants.

Somchai chose a path for which he knew he'd possibly pay a price. Abhisit has learned from that- it's not that he lacks balls or is some kind of saint- he is doing what he thinks is the most practical thing to do right now- just as Somchai did what he thought was the most practical. History will determine whether they took the right course (the verdict on Somchai is in- Abhsist learned from that verdict).

As far as the bomb blasts occurring- of course I condemn that regardless of who is responsible or to what end they are intended. But I have studied revolution long enough to know that public approbation fuels rather than mitigates terrorism.

Edited April 6, 2010 by blaze