Thai 'Red Shirts' Pledge More Protests After Court Ruling

[OzMick]

I see Jerry is on line and I owe him an answer from another thread, please excuse off topic.

I had no intention to insult your family. What I was attempting to put across is that cannot help some people, they will waste every opportunity offered. I lent 1 br-in-law B200,000. He had a business plan which we tested, it worked, and he paid me back in 2 years with interest, and now has a much higher income.

My ex-wife and another br-in-law stole the book for my truck, changed it to my wife's name illegally, and borrowed B300,000. No police action was taken, I lost my truck, and ex and br have absolutely nothing to show for it. If you can't improve your lot with a B150,000 windfall, legal or not, what bloody hope is there for you?

[OzMick]

When someone can remain calm while everybody else is panicking, someone probably doesn't understand the situation.

Sorry, i do not follow you. On contrary, it is a characteristic of strong leaders to remain calm in the middle of a confusing situation. In my professional life, I was trained to face emergency situations: you have to put aside your own feelings which must not submerge your intellect. You have to focus on the essential features of the situation, first get an understanding and then respond in an orderly manner.

Great Leaders are abstracting themselves from the surrounding atmosphere and are thinking ahead.

I was actually referring to rainman, but the quote names were deleted.

I agree with your statement.

[Jerrytheyoung]

I see Jerry is on line and I owe him an answer from another thread, please excuse off topic.

I had no intention to insult your family. What I was attempting to put across is that cannot help some people, they will waste every opportunity offered. I lent 1 br-in-law B200,000. He had a business plan which we tested, it worked, and he paid me back in 2 years with interest, and now has a much higher income.

My ex-wife and another br-in-law stole the book for my truck, changed it to my wife's name illegally, and borrowed B300,000. No police action was taken, I lost my truck, and ex and br have absolutely nothing to show for it. If you can't improve your lot with a B150,000 windfall, legal or not, what bloody hope is there for you?

from your personal experience it is 50%/50%. One brother in law OK at the difference of your wife and other brother in law. So your personal experience cannot prove anything.

You have dishonest people everywhere but fortunately you have more honest people than dishonest ones. In any case you have to give a chance to everybody.

[Insight]

Thai Wife and girlfriend came up with idea

supply a truck full of beer all laced with sleeping tablets

2 hrs later send in the trucks to pick up the little sleeping darlings

when they wake up all was a dream and they are all back home

If only real life was sio simple

Excellent idea Can see the leaders pleading with the supporters not to drink the lao of the "elite", and failing miserably.

Irene has nailed the next stage of the game, but there is plenty of evidence both on TV and online now of the BKK people becoming restless with the situation; check the comments on the anti-dissolution FB group (183k members as of writing).

/edit - linked

Edited April 6, 2010 by Insight

[rreddin]

I wish all the ignorant contributors here who claim that all the reds are just paid to be demontrate would stop making things up.

I know that in my village they are having to harvest their crops early to finance trips to Bangkok to lend their support.

You can call them ignorant or stupid but they do have genuine feelings that they are getting a rough deal from the powers that be.

Just the fact they have maintained the demos for 3 weeks show there is genuine commitment.

Please stop criticising them for their lack of sophistication. Sure many have limited education but that is the result of years of Bangkok elite governance and not their fault.

Just remember that at their height the yellows could get 20,000 on the street for just a few days these reds have maintained far higher numbers for 3 weeks and not closed down any airports! They may be uneducated but they are not stupid and I find it disgusting that so many so called educated farangs in this forum think they know better an dismiss their complaints out of hand.

I totally agree with what you say. In my village people have also been getting their crops in early to help finance their journey to Bangkok to show their support. Others, who cannot go, have made a small donation to help with the cost of fuel and food. They believe that they have genuine grievances that are being ignored. They also believe that demonstratig in Bangkok is the only way they will get redress.

Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant. Accept the fact that our opinion does not count. Even the poorly educated people in my village can express their disagreement without being rude or offensive. That is something some posters in this forum are incapable of doing.

[OzMick]

I see Jerry is on line and I owe him an answer from another thread, please excuse off topic.

I had no intention to insult your family. What I was attempting to put across is that cannot help some people, they will waste every opportunity offered. I lent 1 br-in-law B200,000. He had a business plan which we tested, it worked, and he paid me back in 2 years with interest, and now has a much higher income.

My ex-wife and another br-in-law stole the book for my truck, changed it to my wife's name illegally, and borrowed B300,000. No police action was taken, I lost my truck, and ex and br have absolutely nothing to show for it. If you can't improve your lot with a B150,000 windfall, legal or not, what bloody hope is there for you?

from your personal experience it is 50%/50%. One brother in law OK at the difference of your wife and other brother in law. So your personal experience cannot prove anything.

You have dishonest people everywhere but fortunately you have more honest people than dishonest ones. In any case you have to give a chance to everybody.

By my math, it would be 33/66, and the original statement was "some people" you cannot help. I am not trying to point out dishonesty. I am more concentrating on incompetence, stupidity, sloth, intoxication - all of which are common human traits in every country. Stories abound of lotto millionaires who are broke after 3-4 yrs.

[Dodobird]

The government knew since inception that they have the authority to deal with the red but decided to throw the hot potato to court. However, it was ricochets back to the government - court washed their hands...brilliant!

[way2muchcoffee]

The government knew since inception that they have the authority to deal with the red but decided to throw the hot potato to court. However, it was ricochets back to the government - court washed their hands...brilliant!

Alternately, Abhisit wanted to add legitimacy to any efforts he might make to remove the illegal protesters. He won on two points:

1) Court confirmed that they are illegally protesting in violation of constitutional law

2) Court confirmed that he has the power to remove them at his discretion.

The court stopped short of ordering the removal of the protesters as under the ISA the government already has the authority to make that decision and it would therefore be inappropriate for the court to interfere.

Edited April 6, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Jerrytheyoung]

The government knew since inception that they have the authority to deal with the red but decided to throw the hot potato to court. However, it was ricochets back to the government - court washed their hands...brilliant!

The Court washed their hands and has taken no responsability....

Apparently now a crackdown is on the way.....

i do not think the situation is brilliant, an imposed mediation may have been a better option isnot it?

[johndpoole]

The government knew since inception that they have the authority to deal with the red but decided to throw the hot potato to court. However, it was ricochets back to the government - court washed their hands...brilliant!

The Court washed their hands and has taken no responsability....

Apparently now a crackdown is on the way.....

i do not think the situation is brilliant, an imposed mediation may have been a better option isnot it?

Been there, done that ... it is clear these thugs want a confrontation.

[WAERTH]

Mediation will only work if both sides are willing to give in.

The government has already made some concessions.

The red shirts refuse any concession.

It is than impossible to negotiate if one side is unwilling to.

Repeating your demands ad nausem is not negotiating.

[Insight]

According to Twitter and the updates on TV (ThaiVisa) it's all about to go off. On the TV (telly) - nada.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Insight

[Who, me ?]

According to Twitter and the updates on TV (ThaiVisa) it's all about to go off. On the TV (telly) - nada.

I just saw 3 or 4 bus full of soldiers going from Lumpini to Chidlom......followed by several truck fully loaded with red shirts

[Jerrytheyoung]

Mediation will only work if both sides are willing to give in.

The government has already made some concessions.

The red shirts refuse any concession.

It is than impossible to negotiate if one side is unwilling to.

Repeating your demands ad nausem is not negotiating.

Any attempt to solve peacefully the situation is better than the bloody crackdown which is expected soon, with uncontrolled consequences. A discussion -even if apparently negative- is always positive as it smooths the relationship between leaders and obliges to listen to the other parties.

[Who, me ?]

Mediation will only work if both sides are willing to give in.

The government has already made some concessions.

The red shirts refuse any concession.

It is than impossible to negotiate if one side is unwilling to.

Repeating your demands ad nausem is not negotiating.

Any attempt to solve peacefully the situation is better than the bloody crackdown which is expected soon, with uncontrolled consequences. A discussion -even if apparently negative- is always positive as it smooths the relationship between leaders and obliges to listen to the other parties.

More red shirts going towards chidlom from lumpini

[somo]

I wish all the ignorant contributors here who claim that all the reds are just paid to be demontrate would stop making things up.

I know that in my village they are having to harvest their crops early to finance trips to Bangkok to lend their support.

You can call them ignorant or stupid but they do have genuine feelings that they are getting a rough deal from the powers that be.

Just the fact they have maintained the demos for 3 weeks show there is genuine commitment.

Please stop criticising them for their lack of sophistication. Sure many have limited education but that is the result of years of Bangkok elite governance and not their fault.

Just remember that at their height the yellows could get 20,000 on the street for just a few days these reds have maintained far higher numbers for 3 weeks and not closed down any airports! They may be uneducated but they are not stupid and I find it disgusting that so many so called educated farangs in this forum think they know better an dismiss their complaints out of hand.

Ok I'll talk about the experience in my girlfriends village. They live about 25km from the middle of Chiang Rai. good Thaksin country. They are not lucky enoudh to have water to be able to grow another crop. They have one rice crop a year which feeds them and their family. They don't have any to sell. The rest of the year they get by on bits and pieces. Example the dad sets traps for wild birds which he can sell at the market for 50bt. He's also a bit of an odd job mechanic. As of last week people in this village were being offered 700 Baht a day to go to Bangkok. A lot of people in the village did this because at the moment they have no crops and are just meeting ends meet.

When Thaksin was in power they and a few other people got loaned cows or bulls. As soon as they got them they started breeding them because later, they were told, Thaksin wanted them back. When the coup happened they thought ok the cow is ours now. But they did not feel sorry for Thaksin. More like here is the end of another guy with his own interests at heart. But at least we have a cow.

When I went there three weeks ago the majority of people were anti red shirt, but the red shirts were most vocal and made it seem like they were the majority. The rest of the village were being pragmatic and looking how they could benefit themselves while not knowing the whole picture.

So Somo, my girlfriend's family would love to be in a position where they caould harvest crops now but for a lot of North Thailand this is not an option now. So there are a lot of people down there now because at the moment they are being pragmatic. This is a good way to make money and they are being lied to by the red shirt leaders. These are the people I worry about if things get nasty.

I know from the figures you quote of 700 Baht/day that this is rubbish. The going rate for a hard days work in the fields is 130-150 Baht/day Why would anyone pay 700/day for walking around in Bangkok when they would jump at it for a third of that? Someone is winding you up! Perhaps they thought you would pay them 700

[johndpoole]

I wish all the ignorant contributors here who claim that all the reds are just paid to be demontrate would stop making things up.

I know that in my village they are having to harvest their crops early to finance trips to Bangkok to lend their support.

You can call them ignorant or stupid but they do have genuine feelings that they are getting a rough deal from the powers that be.

Just the fact they have maintained the demos for 3 weeks show there is genuine commitment.

Please stop criticising them for their lack of sophistication. Sure many have limited education but that is the result of years of Bangkok elite governance and not their fault.

Just remember that at their height the yellows could get 20,000 on the street for just a few days these reds have maintained far higher numbers for 3 weeks and not closed down any airports! They may be uneducated but they are not stupid and I find it disgusting that so many so called educated farangs in this forum think they know better an dismiss their complaints out of hand.

I totally agree with what you say. In my village people have also been getting their crops in early to help finance their journey to Bangkok to show their support. Others, who cannot go, have made a small donation to help with the cost of fuel and food. They believe that they have genuine grievances that are being ignored. They also believe that demonstratig in Bangkok is the only way they will get redress.

Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant. Accept the fact that our opinion does not count. Even the poorly educated people in my village can express their disagreement without being rude or offensive. That is something some posters in this forum are incapable of doing.

Sounds like your oh so nice and polite crowd up there is helping to finance this unruly, threatening, provoking, law breaking mob down here.

IMO if they were so nice then they would wait 9-month for the EARLY elections the PM agreed to or legally petition courts if they have an honest grievance. This is the democratic way as is peaceful protests and not trying to hold the countries capital hostage.

In all democratic societies, there are poor and disenfranchised but as with others and Thailand ... these people can control their destiny. Hand outs and demanding hand outs is not a solution as has been proved over and over. Things are changing fairly quickly in Thailand since it moved from being a 3rd world country and it simply takes time but the governments of Thailand have made great strides in making sure the poor have opportunity and the basic needs which place like the USA don't provide.

Again, even in the US they have electoral votes which ultimately define who wins an election. So, people in North Dakota's vote is much less important than that of say New York were there is a base of power, wealth and people. If the Reds are demand an equal say along with those in Bangkok and an equal distribution of wealth then they are not at all about democracy but socialism and they should say this. In fact they might get much more support this way. With the Thai attitude and culture it would seem a government similar to Sweden would be more effective here. However, it would not work if there was wide spread corruption and this is kind of baffling since their ultimate leader is a convicted criminal on the run from the law and their local leaders live high on the hog at their expense.

Edited April 6, 2010 by johndpoole

[Thai at Heart]

Mediation will only work if both sides are willing to give in.

The government has already made some concessions.

The red shirts refuse any concession.

It is than impossible to negotiate if one side is unwilling to.

Repeating your demands ad nausem is not negotiating.

Any attempt to solve peacefully the situation is better than the bloody crackdown which is expected soon, with uncontrolled consequences. A discussion -even if apparently negative- is always positive as it smooths the relationship between leaders and obliges to listen to the other parties.

I would imagine if a crack down is coming that every effort will be made to make it as "harmless" as possible. I don't see that there are any options for discussion any more. The authorities will give the word that people should disperse and if they don't, then they take their own risks.

Whether it comes or not, it would appear that today would be the day because it is a holiday. If they don't clear it now, I think some pretty important people are going to be extremely hacked off with Abhisit. How much patience can he expect the Bangkok population and business to have?

[johndpoole]

I wish all the ignorant contributors here who claim that all the reds are just paid to be demontrate would stop making things up.

I know that in my village they are having to harvest their crops early to finance trips to Bangkok to lend their support.

You can call them ignorant or stupid but they do have genuine feelings that they are getting a rough deal from the powers that be.

Just the fact they have maintained the demos for 3 weeks show there is genuine commitment.

Please stop criticising them for their lack of sophistication. Sure many have limited education but that is the result of years of Bangkok elite governance and not their fault.

Just remember that at their height the yellows could get 20,000 on the street for just a few days these reds have maintained far higher numbers for 3 weeks and not closed down any airports! They may be uneducated but they are not stupid and I find it disgusting that so many so called educated farangs in this forum think they know better an dismiss their complaints out of hand.

I totally agree with what you say. In my village people have also been getting their crops in early to help finance their journey to Bangkok to show their support. Others, who cannot go, have made a small donation to help with the cost of fuel and food. They believe that they have genuine grievances that are being ignored. They also believe that demonstratig in Bangkok is the only way they will get redress.

Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant. Accept the fact that our opinion does not count. Even the poorly educated people in my village can express their disagreement without being rude or offensive. That is something some posters in this forum are incapable of doing.

The people in your village must not be too informed or smart ...

Edited April 6, 2010 by johndpoole

[johndpoole]

I wish all the ignorant contributors here who claim that all the reds are just paid to be demontrate would stop making things up.

I know that in my village they are having to harvest their crops early to finance trips to Bangkok to lend their support.

You can call them ignorant or stupid but they do have genuine feelings that they are getting a rough deal from the powers that be.

Just the fact they have maintained the demos for 3 weeks show there is genuine commitment.

Please stop criticising them for their lack of sophistication. Sure many have limited education but that is the result of years of Bangkok elite governance and not their fault.

Just remember that at their height the yellows could get 20,000 on the street for just a few days these reds have maintained far higher numbers for 3 weeks and not closed down any airports! They may be uneducated but they are not stupid and I find it disgusting that so many so called educated farangs in this forum think they know better an dismiss their complaints out of hand.

Ok I'll talk about the experience in my girlfriends village. They live about 25km from the middle of Chiang Rai. good Thaksin country. They are not lucky enoudh to have water to be able to grow another crop. They have one rice crop a year which feeds them and their family. They don't have any to sell. The rest of the year they get by on bits and pieces. Example the dad sets traps for wild birds which he can sell at the market for 50bt. He's also a bit of an odd job mechanic. As of last week people in this village were being offered 700 Baht a day to go to Bangkok. A lot of people in the village did this because at the moment they have no crops and are just meeting ends meet.

When Thaksin was in power they and a few other people got loaned cows or bulls. As soon as they got them they started breeding them because later, they were told, Thaksin wanted them back. When the coup happened they thought ok the cow is ours now. But they did not feel sorry for Thaksin. More like here is the end of another guy with his own interests at heart. But at least we have a cow.

When I went there three weeks ago the majority of people were anti red shirt, but the red shirts were most vocal and made it seem like they were the majority. The rest of the village were being pragmatic and looking how they could benefit themselves while not knowing the whole picture.

So Somo, my girlfriend's family would love to be in a position where they caould harvest crops now but for a lot of North Thailand this is not an option now. So there are a lot of people down there now because at the moment they are being pragmatic. This is a good way to make money and they are being lied to by the red shirt leaders. These are the people I worry about if things get nasty.

I know from the figures you quote of 700 Baht/day that this is rubbish. The going rate for a hard days work in the fields is 130-150 Baht/day Why would anyone pay 700/day for walking around in Bangkok when they would jump at it for a third of that? Someone is winding you up! Perhaps they thought you would pay them 700

Unless things have gone up this year, you are right it is not 700 Baht a day ... it is 500.

Edited April 6, 2010 by johndpoole

[Insight]

Coverage on NBT.

[Indra]

Consider Thaksin is the bad guy.

But it is the fact that the current government raised to power because of a demonstration.

Hence, a fresh election is needed and if Abhisit and his gang really loves Thailand, they must do their homework i.e. educating poor people not to succumb to vote buying.

The question, do they have such passion to do it? Or they just simply want to have instant power so that the ROI is high?

[animatic]

When someone can remain calm while everybody else is panicking, someone probably doesn't understand the situation.

Sorry, i do not follow you. On contrary, it is a characteristic of strong leaders to remain calm in the middle of a confusing situation. In my professional life, I was trained to face emergency situations: you have to put aside your own feelings which must not submerge your intellect. You have to focus on the essential features of the situation, first get an understanding and then respond in an orderly manner.

Great Leaders are abstracting themselves from the surrounding atmosphere and are thinking ahead.

It's a ironic or sarcastic line,

sometimes not to far off the mark.

There are certainly those who do not get upset,

because they clearly do NOT understand what's happening around them.

Others that understand just enough to be scared to panic,

and

those rare few who stifle their panic instinct and deal with the problem,

they are often called heros and leaders. Often hard to find individuals.

[OzMick]

people in North Dakota's vote is much less important than that of say New York

Not a student of US politics, but IMO this would only apply in presidential election. Small population states have much smaller numbers of voters per representative, and all states are entitled to 2 senators regardless of size. surely this would help balance the equation?

[animatic]

Consider Thaksin is the bad guy.

But it is the fact that the current government raised to power because of a demonstration...

Sorry no that is NOT a fact.

There were TWO governments put in place via domestic voting PRIOR to this current government.

When this coalition was formed there WAS NO demonstration nor airport take over happening.

This government was installed by the same process as the one before it.

No difference except the leading players changed.

Stop buying into the propaganda lie that is the basis of this coming riot situation.

[JacknDanny]

Mediation will only work if both sides are willing to give in.

The government has already made some concessions.

The red shirts refuse any concession.

It is than impossible to negotiate if one side is unwilling to.

Repeating your demands ad nausem is not negotiating.

Any attempt to solve peacefully the situation is better than the bloody crackdown which is expected soon, with uncontrolled consequences. A discussion -even if apparently negative- is always positive as it smooths the relationship between leaders and obliges to listen to the other parties.

I would imagine if a crack down is coming that every effort will be made to make it as "harmless" as possible. I don't see that there are any options for discussion any more. The authorities will give the word that people should disperse and if they don't, then they take their own risks.

Whether it comes or not, it would appear that today would be the day because it is a holiday. If they don't clear it now, I think some pretty important people are going to be extremely hacked off with Abhisit. How much patience can he expect the Bangkok population and business to have?

I agree.

The reds have had their chance.

I just hope that Jatuporn gets a good slapping!!

Its a shame for most of the red supporters who simply havent got a clue, they are just being stoked on by these gobbos.

But the Govt has been more than patient. Now is the time to take action.

Hopefully the injuries will be kept to a minimum, but when you are deliberately breaking the law and causing inconvenience to the majority, then quite frankly you get what you deserve. Its not like they havent been warned!!

[Thai at Heart]

Mediation will only work if both sides are willing to give in.

The government has already made some concessions.

The red shirts refuse any concession.

It is than impossible to negotiate if one side is unwilling to.

Repeating your demands ad nausem is not negotiating.

Any attempt to solve peacefully the situation is better than the bloody crackdown which is expected soon, with uncontrolled consequences. A discussion -even if apparently negative- is always positive as it smooths the relationship between leaders and obliges to listen to the other parties.

I would imagine if a crack down is coming that every effort will be made to make it as "harmless" as possible. I don't see that there are any options for discussion any more. The authorities will give the word that people should disperse and if they don't, then they take their own risks.

Whether it comes or not, it would appear that today would be the day because it is a holiday. If they don't clear it now, I think some pretty important people are going to be extremely hacked off with Abhisit. How much patience can he expect the Bangkok population and business to have?

I agree.

The reds have had their chance.

I just hope that Jatuporn gets a good slapping!!

Its a shame for most of the red supporters who simply havent got a clue, they are just being stoked on by these gobbos.

But the Govt has been more than patient. Now is the time to take action.

Hopefully the injuries will be kept to a minimum, but when you are deliberately breaking the law and causing inconvenience to the majority, then quite frankly you get what you deserve. Its not like they havent been warned!!

I think they can fill the whole area with enough tear gas that no one will want to stay.

[Insight]

THE NATION: Jatuporn announced as seen on PTV: "If we can't live in peace in this country, let be it."

Sounds pretty revolutionary IMHO. Reds have got a three week stand-off, along with the events of last Songkran having over their reputation.

[animatic]

people in North Dakota's vote is much less important than that of say New York

Not a student of US politics, but IMO this would only apply in presidential election. Small population states have much smaller numbers of voters per representative, and all states are entitled to 2 senators regardless of size. surely this would help balance the equation?

Well as far as 'house of representatives' no,

there is ONE rep for each DISTRICT of people.

The current size of 435 seats means one member represents on average about 650,000 people.

"Gerrymandering" comes from people redrawing district bounderies to increase a voting block one way or another.

So, while a lower populace state has fewer reps... ( Delaware & Vermonet 1 each)

but EACH individual citizen is still getting equal representation in House of Reps. as ANY OTHER state's individuals

But each STATE still has equal senators in the Senate 2 out of 100 like every other state.

And since presidential elections are by electoral collage

Electors, with constituent numbers approximately equivalent to representatives, are chosen by popular vote,

BUT those votes are voted as a block for the state, depending on who wins.

If the people decide on a presidential candidate for that state,

their NATIONAL power to elect is 1 in 50 same as any state.

It is an interesting system, but occasionally ignores the purely popular numbers.

Hope this helps.

Edited April 6, 2010 by animatic

[johndpoole]

people in North Dakota's vote is much less important than that of say New York

Not a student of US politics, but IMO this would only apply in presidential election. Small population states have much smaller numbers of voters per representative, and all states are entitled to 2 senators regardless of size. surely this would help balance the equation?

You might want to check out the US House of Representatives and their powers, the number per state vs. the senate.