You Are A Restaurant Guest, But.....

[Flatouthruthefog]

Three times in Chiang Mai restaurants, over the years, as a guest of different friends, something has been very wrong with one of my dishes.

A beef stew type dish in a German restaurant (now closed, thank goodness) didn't taste right, but I was both very hungry and greedy and ate two thirds of it.

I can't describe what began to happen a few hours later, or how I felt!!

Last time was only last week, when I was salivating over the thought of lamb chops at a very expensive local Fine Dining establishment. I asked for them "medium-well", and they turned out to be bright red inside. I focussed on the excellent conversation, asked for extra mint and bravely carried on.

How DO you raise a complaint in front of your chum who is paying? Or do you take the coward's way out like me, and eat up and shut up?

And for your 10 bonus points, in the case of a meal which really made you ill (see 'German' above), do you go back and politely advise the restaurant owner later, so (if he/she is objective) they are alerted to the problem and can avoid it in future? I didn't do that, either!

If you respond, could you give your nationality, as I rather expect a 'different horses for different courses' situation.....?

I really am curious. Thanks in advance.

[SomchaiCNX]

If something is not the way I asked it I will tell them on the spot.

It will give them the chance to correct it and you will know the quality of their service right away.

[richard_smith237]

It rather depends how close the friend is, where and what the restaurant is and my expectations of the place...

With a friend, I'd think it is acceptable to make a complaint, but maybe discuss with the friend before making the complaint.

The times I wouldn't complain would be when I'm dining with friends of my wife or friends of my in-laws for the First time, and in that case I might mention something to my wife and let her make the decision on whether or not a complaint may create some minor social embarrassment or not.

(British)

[Donnyboy]

How DO you raise a complaint in front of your chum who is paying?

i would ask yr chum the following:

Hows yr meal? cause mine doesnt taste right to me.

then offer yr chum a bite/smell/see how red or whatever, by doing this, i would expect yr chum to take yr side when you make a complaint to the restaurant.

i definately wouldnt eat something that tastes funky, even if im hungry in a 5 star restaurant

(Kiwi if you didnt notice)

Edited April 6, 2010 by Donnyboy

[Blinky Bill]

If I don't like it I will make a complaint, doesn't matter who's paying for it.

[noahvail]

Agree with ya, Donny. If they are friends, you can do that, no problem, with a smile of course ;-)

If with "new" family and something like that happens, I'll just play with the food on the plate for a while. That gets noticed, and I tell people that there probably is some problem with me, but it doesn't taste quite right. They take it from there. Coming from the "one down" statement, they aren't in the position of losing face for choosing a restaurant that would serve such a meal. I thank them, laugh a bit, and bob's your uncle.

Yeah, kiwi...and yank. Can't have everything, eh...

[CMX]

OP

I am certain that you would not have raised these issues were you not concerned with sensitivity, subtlety, and success. There are, of course two problems – others at the table (and relationships) on the one hand, and the managers or owners and getting through to them effectively on the other. Happily, it is easy to dispatch both concerns.

No matter the circumstances (and we’re not talking about business dining here), friends always know me for who I am. If they were asked, I am sure that they would say that the best thing is to act naturally, as the best result would be that they’d get to know me better.

Getting the restaurant bosses to make use of advice, however is somewhat more touchy.

I suppose that we are talking mostly about farang owners here. Truly getting their attention is sometimes difficult. They may be an Great Institution in their own minds, a success risen up from being a drunken dishwasher and proud today of their business acumen. But it is difficult to speculate. Main thing is to let them know about their problem.

So I would call for the person involved. Standing, I would state my concern in a loud voice, making sure that everyone in the restaurant was alerted to the problem too. Personally, I think that gestures are worthwhile, so in the case of a “bad” dish, I would grandly gesture a wave of the hand, as if wafting the odor of the offending dish toward me, and then mime the results by appearing to choke and other sighs of revulsion, such as throwing up. Frankly, miming diarrhea is probably going too far; as some people might misunderstand your meaning (unsophisticated diners, of course, will not; it might be worth a try if you point). I should mention here that a Thai owner, what with all that “losing” face business, is almost certain to have let down his defenses and come to a conclusion.

Of course, the bill will probably be caught up in all this, along with your table companions. If the responsible party behaves properly, you should avoid the bill altogether (in your example, your friend would avoid it). It has always worked out that way for me. And on every occasion, my friend(s) have assisted me in my departure.

An American, a Texan, and dam*ed proud of it!

PS Just kidding. People are so serious on these forums that I dare on occasion to leaven with a pass at levity.

Edited April 6, 2010 by CMX

[vera5212]

No matter who is paying, if I asked for a medium well done meat, I would certainly ask the waiter to have the correct their mistake. You do not need to complaint, you gently ask for it.

Your German dish is another story - I would ask my friend to taste and if he had the same bad taste, I would also talk to the waiter/owner.

In both cases anyway, I would not start complaining but rather explain the problem and ask/give them the time to solve it, and as said before no matter who is paying or the place/price involved.

By the way - I'm from Belgium

[terrytan]

Guys,

As a Pub / Restuarant owner, if anyone who thought that their meal was iffy, we would hope that they tell us straight away

a) to allow us to change the meal

to allow us to check our stock / kitchen to ensure we had stopped the problem

Its not easy running a restaurant if fact its dam_n hard at times and we do need feed back from customers in case we miss things sometimes

T

[uptheos]

Be a man (or woman) trust your own judgement....no need to play games or for anyone else to taste the food on your behalf! Bring it to the attention of whoever is in charge regardless of who is paying, because you should be getting what is being paid for. Some time ago, I was on the next table to a group of four in an 'English style' Pub and Restaurant, who were moaning to each other about the quality of the food. The owner walked around asking "everything alright on this table" to which they replied "Oh yes everything is fine".....they certainly didn't do themselves or the owner a favour.

[jackr]

Spit it out onto the plate, shout PISS, and through it on the floor John McVicar stylie

[ManilaLover]

Depends what location it is, if it's the pretencious kind where you may expect professional staff I will tell them I did not order this and politely give them back, simple. After all it's for their own benefit (but ok here they won't get the point and don't think in terms of quality and improvements but complain you're just another difficult farang, because thais can't do anything wrong as you know)

Loosing face is not an issue for me anyway, basically I have no respect for them and keep them short.

However, it's important always to keep the eyes open because there are still many who are very OK and deserve respect and loyalty. They understand their job, apologize and get you the right thing, no need at all to feel ph*ckd up, leave a tip for serious service.

But in general service has gone dramatically down the past years, they don't learn good manners anymore, smash the plate on your table without saying anything, the are not interested in you just looking the street when the next foodcart passes so they can buy something for themselves, eating sitting on the kitchen floor and forget their job for a while.

On a holiday in Malaisia they asked my 'why you live is that cowboy country ?'

Already started to sell everything, in the meanwhile going to the known good places there are still some that I will miss.

[millwall_fan]

Strange, OP. The last time I went to a local fine dining establishment I had Lamb Chops too. and they were produced almost raw as well. I suspect we may be talking about the same fine dining establishment. If so, the reason for the undercooked meat, I discovered, is that the said establishment has been cutting costs and no longer employs a foreign chef, or no longer has a foreign chef as a partner. The Thai chef, whilst admirable in many ways, thinks that Lamb should be cooked like steak whereas as you and I know, Lamb should be pink or cooked right through according to taste.

I did complain and the Lamb was then cooked properly....by which time all the other items on my plate were cold!

We, at The Olde Bell, will always exchange or not charge for mistakes we make. As Terrytan rightly says, we need the feedback- and its only you guys who live here who give it, the tourists tend not to complain and that can lull us into thinking we're doing everything right. Most of our compaints recently have been due to us being victims of our own success - we run out of things and there have been a few delays in getting things to table. In such circumstances we offer apologies and a free drink or a voucher for another time.

By the way, our Lamb Chops are pink, cooked or well done and are about 1/2 the price of certain 'fine dining' restaurants

[ManilaLover]

By the way, our Lamb Chops are pink, cooked or well done and are about 1/2 the price of certain 'fine dining' restaurants

Lamb ? You mean you're eating child-animals ?

[Donnyboy]

By the way, our Lamb Chops are pink, cooked or well done and are about 1/2 the price of certain 'fine dining' restaurants

Lamb ? You mean you're eating child-animals ?

hhmm ive got a soft spot for lamb shanks

[ManilaLover]

By the way, our Lamb Chops are pink, cooked or well done and are about 1/2 the price of certain 'fine dining' restaurants

Lamb ? You mean you're eating child-animals ?

hhmm ive got a soft spot for lamb shanks

Culinairy pedophile !

(ps how did you embed that vid ??)

[jackr]

Wrap the utube vid number after the = in tags, obviously with the 'u' as 'you' - [utube]8LfMGl5TutI[/utube]

[Donnyboy]

Culinairy pedophile !

(ps how did you embed that vid ??)

i like veal too

i draw the line at kittens thou, they dont have much meat on em

[Donnyboy]

not always the case, some street cart food is top notch

ie khao kaa moo at chiang mai gate is so good only 30 baht, on most nights she has a line of customers waiting

there used to be a street vendor on a mobile cart that did an excellent khao pad, i would say on par to most restaurants, hotels around, unfortunately, im not living in that area where he is most nights now.

i dont think a street vendor would last long serving rice sweepings and husks

imo, yr paying for the added comfort of being inside/nicer surroundings, service etc, sure you might get slightly better food, served on a plate with garnishes with proper cutlery, but its not totally to do with the quality of food served

[Bill97]

If you think that you are a guest but feel that you have to give a bj to your host and/or eat food you do not want, perhaps you should reconsider whether your are a guest or a pig or a prostitute.

If they can not respect you for taking polite steps to get the food you want in a quality restaurant, what kind of people are they and why should you care want they think? Doesn't a good host ask their guests how the food is after first bites even in restaurants? Doesn't a good host really care that their guests are satisfied?

If your food does not taste right, tell them on the spot then there is no question about going back or not.

All assuming of course you are not on the hustle.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Bill97

[mcgriffith]

OK, back on thread- here's an old story.

I go to some German resto on Patpong in BKK about a zillion years ago.

It was about 1978-1980.

I went there to eat GERMAN food (I'm not German) as in Hunterschnitzl , sauerkraut, etc.

The owner absolutely insisted on me trying a dish with New Zealand green mussels.

<deleted>? I'm in a German resto...eat mussels?

Being young, dumb and full of you know what I acquiesce.

Never been sicker in my life, honestly I thought I was dying in the following few days.

I had to get a medical certificate from an MD so that I could rebook a flight.

I learned a few things from this.

Unscrupulous resto owners are literally willing to poison customers, if they think they are tourists and will be gone soon.

Never ever in a million years order seafood in a German restaurant. At least in Patpong.

Complain when it is fair and deserved.

I had a toxic reaction to this incident, and to this day cannot touch any kind of mussels (other shellfish OK).

I would never stand up and wave my arms as was jokingly mentioned above.

But if I feel that I have been improperly served, or my medium-rare steak appeared like grey overdone leather, or the salad has wilted leaves and the dressing is warm....I don't hesitate now to quietly ask for the manager, or the owner- and immediately let them know about it.

Most successful restaurant and bar owners want to know about glitches, and usually are happy to immediately correct any reasonable complaint.

[uptheos]

I think a sweeping statement like that is a little unfair.

I'm sure that happens at some places, but probably more so in kitchen's away from public view than street vendors or open wall restaurants.

For example a 'hole in the wall' place near to where I live has been going for at least 12 years.

All dishes are 35 baht including rice.

I know the girl/lady very well as she lives in a nice house not far from me. She gets up every morning around 5am, goes to the market and buys everything fresh. It is refrigerated on her return to her place. She cooks at the front of the shop and after every dish is cooked the wok is washed and new oil used. She has several woks and her helper washes the one just used. Her rice is constantly being cooked fresh and she certainly doesn't use 'rice sweepings and husks'. She will use your own oil if you prefer. If you don't want MSG or sugar, she will not put it in.

Her food is delicious and you can see exactly how she handles it. Usually she is sold out by mid afternoon, doesn't buy so much that it's left over until the next day. Canned Cokes, Pepsi etc are 15 Baht and water is free.

You can get a really good, clean feed and an ice cold coke for 50 Baht.

[mickscottatlanta]

Guys,

As a Pub / Restuarant owner, if anyone who thought that their meal was iffy, we would hope that they tell us straight away

a) to allow us to change the meal

to allow us to check our stock / kitchen to ensure we had stopped the problem

Its not easy running a restaurant if fact its dam_n hard at times and we do need feed back from customers in case we miss things sometimes

T

Well you are obviously a farang, and I bet your establishment does well.

Give Thai negative feedback and they lose face - do nothing, and blame you.

[ManilaLover]

You can get a really good, clean feed and an ice cold coke for 50 Baht.

And end with a relaxing foodmassage

[uptheos]

You can get a really good, clean feed and an ice cold coke for 50 Baht.

And end with a relaxing foodmassage

Thanks, that's a great idea, but it needs to be very 'hot and spicy'.

[millwall_fan]

I think a sweeping statement like that is a little unfair.

I'm sure that happens at some places, but probably more so in kitchen's away from public view than street vendors or open wall restaurants.

For example a 'hole in the wall' place near to where I live has been going for at least 12 years.

All dishes are 35 baht including rice.

I know the girl/lady very well as she lives in a nice house not far from me. She gets up every morning around 5am, goes to the market and buys everything fresh. It is refrigerated on her return to her place. She cooks at the front of the shop and after every dish is cooked the wok is washed and new oil used. She has several woks and her helper washes the one just used. Her rice is constantly being cooked fresh and she certainly doesn't use 'rice sweepings and husks'. She will use your own oil if you prefer. If you don't want MSG or sugar, she will not put it in.

Her food is delicious and you can see exactly how she handles it. Usually she is sold out by mid afternoon, doesn't buy so much that it's left over until the next day. Canned Cokes, Pepsi etc are 15 Baht and water is free.

You can get a really good, clean feed and an ice cold coke for 50 Baht.

I don't know the stall you are talking about, but If she is selling top grade Jasmine rice and the oil is genuinely new, and her portions are Farang sized, she's making a loss. Believe me, I sell the stuff, so does Kevin.

I'm not saying street food isn't tasty, it is, and I eat it regularly, but the quality of ingredients isn't the same.

[IanForbes]

I understand the difference between small, Thai cafes and proper restaurants. I'll happily pay the extra when I want to go DINING... as compared to just eating a satisfying, nutritious meal.

And, in respect for the OP's topic I will complain if I feel it is warrented. But, I'm not really a complainer and if I'm not really satisfied with a meal then I just don't bother returning. I DO understand the value of things and I always balance what I have to pay for what I receive in return.

The Red Lion is in a high rent area where prices have to be much more. The German restaurant next to the Red Lion is good, but the prices are very high. The Riverside and the Brasserie have great ambience and you have to pay more for the live music. The meals are good, but the prices are a bit more. Same goes for the Dukes and even MacDonalds.

That is one of the great things about Thailand; you can eat in Thai cafes for very little, and then once in a while, splurge on a western style meal. In Patong beach area of Phuket you can't find anywhere that's reasonably priced. By contrast, Pattaya has many good places to eat that are very cheap. What always amazed me is the reasonably priced restaurants in Pattaya are ALWAYS full of customers. When someone leaves there is always someone taking their place. Contrast that to the more expensive restaurants that stand empty every night... except for the odd tourist that doesn't know any better.

[Ulysses G.]

I will complain if I feel it is warrented. But, I'm not really a complainer and if I'm not really satisfied with a meal then I just don't bother returning. I DO understand the value of things and I always balance what I have to pay for what I receive in return.

I am much the same. if I eat somewhere often and I know that they have made a slight mistake with cooking or portion size, I will ask them to fix it, but I might not bother in an unfamiliar place.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Same here. However if it's an unfamiliar place that wants to be high-end, charging amounts like 380 baht for a dish or more (), then I would most certainly bring it up. Then it's not so much food, it's an investment.

For regular restaurants I will just not go back, and complaining is unlikely to improve the food anyway. It's cheap enough to just walk away and go somewhere else. Now, to be honest this is an exceptionally rare occurrence indeed, I can't remember this ever happening in Chiang Mai. (Of course I'm quite skilled at judging a place based on appearances.)

[Ulysses G.]

Same here. However if it's an unfamiliar place that wants to be high-end, charging amounts like 380 baht for a dish or more ( ), then I would most certainly bring it up. Then it's not so much food, it's an investment.

Last night I ordered the beef filet at Marco's and the girl made mistake and brought me pork instead. I was a little disappointed, but turned down the offer to replace it and just had the pork instead.

Marco noticed that I had not got what I ordered and gave me a big plate of (somewhat expensive) cooked figs and foie gras and it was not only delicious, but also complimentary. You can't ask for more than that!

(By the way, Marco is not my "bud". In fact, I hardly know him, but his food and prices are very nice).