Custodial Rights

[bread]

Hi every one,

I was just after some advice,

I am a UK national married to a Thai national who I have a twenty month old daughter with.

We where married in England and my daughter was born here.

My daughter holds a UK passport and a Thai passport which we got through the London Thai Embassy.

I am named on the UK birth certificate as her father (I am not sure if I am named/or had to get a Thai birth certificate for her Thai passport.

My Wife has returned to Thailand with my daughter for a break as we have had to many problems. My questions are;

• When we got married in the UK is this recognised under Thai law?
  
• Would it be normal when we got my daughter a Thai passport to have a Thai birth certificate made and would I have been named?
  
• My wife is from Issan what we be normal child costs associated with child care e.g. 5000baht-10000baht a month?
  
• What is the chance of me getting some form of custodial rights through the Thai courts though I do not live in Thailand?
  
• What would people suggest is the best form of action do most people go straight to the lawyers or first try to negotiate?
  

Thanks in advance

Bread

Edited April 8, 2010 by bread

[sarahsbloke]

From another post, Thai courts award 80bht per day plus another 20bht per day if the child is in school.

Medical and school fees are split 50/50

There is no enforcement of the payments as far as I know, and if you didn't get married in Thailand you might have to take court action to get joint custody (as is automatic for a child of married parents in Thailand)

Now you have let the child leave the UK you have caused yourself a lot of problems.

As my previous Thai lady told me, once child in Thailand my family will hide, nobody ever find.

Edited April 8, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[bread]

Thanks for the quick response.

So about 3100 baht is the court costing would 10000baht a month seem a fair Issan cost?

We are not devoiced and my wife is still returning at this moment in time I am just pre-empting making some decisions with where I stand.

Also to be fair it is not very plausible never allowing my wife to return to Thailand and if she really wanted to she could any way, I am sure leave the UK with my daughter.

Bread

[bread]

SB "As my previous Thai lady told me, once child in Thailand my family will hide, nobody ever find"

I agree though I would hope that a monthly income may help that.

Bread

[Boo]

I would suggest that when your wife & daughter return you keep things as civil & adult as possible & discuss the options. If you can make an agreement regarding visitation of your daughter then you can register it in the UK courts & then return to Thailand at the same time as your wife & child return to lodge this at the Amphur. This will then be legally binding in Thailand giving you rights & the power to take your ex wife to court or involve the police if she defaults on the agreement at any time in the future.

I am not sure if you can also divorce at the same time (at the amphur) as you were married in UK (one of the more expert posters will be able to clarify) but if you are able to then I suggest doing it in Thailand as it is much simpler & cheaper than in UK, you both just attend the Amphur & ask for divorce, on the back of the form there is a section regarding division of asset & custody agreements for any children. Quick & simple if you are both in agreement.

[bread]

Thank you Boo,

That was some of the information I wanted if any one else knows any more it would be greatfully recived. Trying to keep things civil is allways an issue when one party doesent want to discuss any thing !

thanks

Bread

[bread]

Well things are still bad my wife who flew to Thailand on Tuesday last week with £500 about 20,000 baht and is already saying that she has nearly run out of money.

She also keeps using the line "your daughter will only eat rice if i no have money", I cant stand the continual emotional blackmail it does my head in.

I have only spoken twice since she has been there because now as I have decided it has to be time to take a stand against all of this and it hurts alot because of my daughter and as per last time my wife quite obviously has parmed her off to her family as I have not yet heard her there.

I keep asking my self why does she keep lying to me. I think the strange thing is that I don't feel as emotional about it this time round, as in the felling of dread when you normally break up with some one doesn't seem there which I felt last time she went and even then I was not sure if I wanted her to come back. More a slight anger that she seems to think that I am going to allow this to happen again and again.

I was reading that one should not negotiate with terrorists' and I think this kinda applies.

The scary thing is when I think back over the last two years was she really ever in love me or have I always been the Falang the pays the bills.

Also and I don't know if this applies with a lot of Thai women but even now all I get is accused of cheating on her "who you with" "you want go pub look pussy" are the general well structured well grounded one liners that have been thrown out me every week for the last two years.

It feels good to get his of my chest hope im not boring any one.

Bread

Edited April 10, 2010 by bread

[Artabus]

She also keeps using the line "your daughter will only eat rice if i no have money", I cant stand the continual emotional blackmail it does my head in.

I was reading that one should not negotiate with terrorists' and I think this kinda applies.

Bread

Hello

Very sorry to hear you're having these problems.

NOW WAKE UP.

Only one question for you - do you want your daughter? Not just the cute two year old, but the person that will grow into an older child and then into a teenager, with all the support and care she will need, and all the pain and joy and experience she will give you as her parent?

You do?

Then - get her back to the UK. Say whatever you need to say to the mother to get her back, with your daughter. Thailand is not a signatory to the Hague convention. You need your child in the UK in order to have a chance of keeping her. So if mum wants money, tell her she can have it. Tell her you've been thinking about making her more secure, and you're looking forward to discussing it with her once she's back from her visit.

Now is not the time to make assumptions about how everything is going to be wonderful. If it is, then great! I would wish that outcome for you, of course. Maybe in time to come you'll look back and wonder what you were worrying about.

But in the meantime, if you want your daughter - and bear in mind she'll probably have a better life for having grown up in the UK (although doubtless many will dispute that) - get her back.

There are some other things you should do as well, probably, but I'll wait until I know my thinking's acceptable to you, before stating them.

[bread]

Hello,

Thanks for the replies they are appreciated.

Well after informing my wife that I at this point I am not going to add any more money to her "holiday fund" we have not spoken in two days, I have the standard not picking up the phone when I call and I really only want to hear my daughter.

I have to ask my self why is she so dam childish I know we are all a product of our own environment but and I know this is my opinion but I really haven't done any thing bar try and support and nurture all the things in the last two years that she has wanted.

I know I am not going to get it it but a little respect would be nice !

I am getting the copy I have of the Thai birth certificate sent to me (in storage) and I will be able to make sure I am on that, if not I guess I will have to go about seeing if I can get placed on the Thai one though if any one does know whether the English Birth Certificate would apply to Thailand that would be great ?

Ta Bread

[Mario2008]

You were married in the UK, so by law you are the legal father. In both the UK and in Thailand, under the law of both countries.

I understand the child was born in the UK and has a Thai passport. That means she has a Thai birth certificate, whcih is based on the British brith certificate and your name will be on it.

[bread]

Right thanks mario that is brilliant news I am really pleased about that I was starting to think that could turn into a bit of a nightmare.

Well I rang my wife this morning thinking that after a few days she might have something to say bearing in mind that we are still married I have not started devoice proceedings and to be fair not harked on about it for a while.

Well she informed that she now had 1000baht left out of the £450 that I gave at Heathrow on Tuesday so I think she got 48 to the pound on Wednesday so she has (in her opinion) managed to spend about 20k in 5 days quite good going when her parents reside in Nangrong.

I laughed because I could see this coming and as expected she proceeded to tell me to start with "when you give money to your daughter", I replied with I'm not going to and as expected the result was "she no have food she eat rice".

Well I apologised and said sorry but I don't have/don't want to send any more money and she would have to get by (I did want to inform her that maybe giving it all away was a little naive but I thought better of it) then came the talking to my daughter "daddy no good he no give you money you no eat". To which I wondered why I was even entertaining the idea that she should come back here and I should continue "sponsoring" her family for the rest of my life.

The really sad thing is that I only really want my daughter to have the best possible life and I really don't believe that she will get the Weston education eg. being thought to think for herself or general upbringing that she would get here. And I don't think any money that I ever gave to her mother if she stays with her she will ever see.

I think I need to get some things written down for her eg. what she is entitled to e.t.c as she seems to think that I will be obligated to pay for her for ever and not just for my daughter. And it may allow her to see that I am serious and that I will go through the legal channels in order to insure that my daughter is ok. Can any one recommend some one to draft something I was thinking Issan lawyers but I really just need a letter written out outlining the reasons behind what I have already discussed with her?

bread

Edited April 13, 2010 by bread

[sarahsbloke]

So about 3100 baht is the court costing would 10000baht a month seem a fair Issan cost?

No, 3100bht would seem a fair monthly payment (a Thai court will be unlikely to award more).

If you give any more than that will only encourage the lady to profit from your daughter, don't do it!

Issan is about the cheapest place in Thailand to live.

Your wife has no entitlement to anything under Thai law (apart from 50 percent of your assets acquired after the marriage and in Thailand), the courts in Thailand don't consider having a child to be a free meal ticket, for life, for the mother (unlike the western world)

Anyway, as the lady won't play fair, why give her anything at all, it is extremely unlikely anything you give will be used to benefit your daughter. It's also unlikely the lady would mistreat her daughter, but that doesn't mean she won't lie to you about what is happening.

The harder you are the easier you will make things ..... example conversation .....

She says .. I won't feed your daughter Answer .... not my problem (then hang up)

Never initiate negotiations or phone calls, that looks like weakness (from the art of war)

I would just sit patently and do nothing, get on with your life, put your daughter out of your mind for a while (yes I know that's hard)

Agree to nothing (you are entitled to 50 percent custody under Thai law UNLESS YOU GIVE IT AWAY)

Do not under any circumstances bring this lady back to the UK, her rights are totally different in the UK and she can take you for everything you own (or will own in the next 17 years) if she gets back in.

one more thing

Who has the kids passports?

There are no laws to stop a parent snatching their own child in Thailand, if you can get the child and the passport, then on a plane back to the UK without the mother, you have won. (I'm not saying this is the right thing to do)

Edited April 13, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[bread]

Indeed, I will leave it for a while before I talk to her again. I think for my own sense of well being will dictate that I need to send something and in turn I do want to have access to my daughter and to get in place if she can come and live with me here.

I think as I said the next step may be to contact my wife through the lawyers though I am still underside about that.

Bread

[Dakhar]

sorry to say this, but she will continue to milk the child situation forever. Once u send her money, you have taught her that she can do this.

I really feel for u, and u r not the only one going through this, I can promise u that.

[bread]

Well quick update I guess,

The last two days have been ok I have actually spoken too her on an adult level and discussed about my daughters future and in turn them both returning to the UK in May as previously arranged.

I feel some what that this is the centre of the hurricane and she I am sure will flair up again in a day or two as I have already said I am not sending any more money.

I still don’t know which is the best way round this, but there is also nearly four weeks until she returns, so I guess any thing may well happen or in turn be said.

I at this moment in time am not sure that I myself could look after my daughter (with her best interests at heart) on a full time 100% custody basis, as I my self work a six day week and some fairly unsociable hours and I feel this would be unfair on her to be in full time child care.

I must say thanks to every one that has been so supportive as it does help knowing that I am not the only person going through this.

Bread