Bringing Up Children In Thailand

[seahorse]

This is a serious subject and I would appreciate it if those who have no real interest in children would refrain from commenting. Mind you, they probably won't read all of this anyway. I apologise for the length of this post but I take my parental responsibilities very seriously.

I was in Tesco Lotus with my 2 year old son yesterday (just me and him). He wanted to sit in the trolley itself rather than in the seat, which is not unusual. But he started throwing things out of the trolley - I had only put some new clothes for him in at that stage. I just picked them up and put them back in the trolley and scolded him gently as I didn't want to create a big fuss. The Thais who saw him doing this just smiled.

But when I put a Loy Kratong bread float in the trolley and he threw that down on the floor and damaged it, I put it back in the trolley and told him not to throw it down, a bit more seriously than before. He then did it again so I decided enough was enough and l lifted him out of the trolley and put him in the seat while scolding him. He didn't like it and started crying. He didn't cry for long and I didn't hit him.

When I had finished scolding him I looked up and realised that about 20 Thais were standing staring at me. Not just looking to see what the boy was complaining about, but looking at me like I had two heads or something. What really got me was that they kept on looking. They didn't look away. They didn't return to mind their own business. They kept on looking. Now where I come from that is considered to be very rude, if not aggressive behaviour.

I looked at one of them, the first one whose eye I caught. She kept on looking at me for a few seconds more at least before finally getting the message and looking away. That didn't stop others from continuing their stares. So I said to the nearest woman, politely in Thai, what are you looking at? (Doo arai, na khrap?) She then looked away and moved on. That still didn't stop the others. I couldn't believe it. So I turned to the nearest man and said "What are you staring at?", not so politely. (Mong arai?) It was only then that he moved on. I didn't look to see if anyone else was still at it - I put my head down and pushed the trolley away.

A number of things strike me about this incident.

1. Why are Thais so rude about staring? Don't they think it's rude?

2. Is it primarily because I'm a farang they all stared?

3. Is it because I'm a man with a kid? I know I always get asked - Where's his mother? (Mae bpai nai?)

4. Is it because they don't ever admonish their kids?

5. Or is it because it's just not done in a public place?

I know my kid's mother does scold him (inconsistently and unjustly on most occasions in my opinion - just when he does something she doesn't like). However, I have a nanny for him when I'm at work and she NEVER reproaches him (when I'm around anyway). She has a daughter slightly older than my boy who she lets away with blue murder e.g. hitting her mother, although she does reprimand her now and again, usually for something that I can't work out.

But it seems to me that laxness is fairly normal for Thais - mai bpen rai and all that, particularly with boys. I taught a class of youngish kids (8-10) when I first got here and I wouldn't do it again - they're just too unruly (and I've heard this from other people too).

I know that my son's bad behaviour is because of this lax attitude. I am easygoing about most things but strict about a few things. Children need to have rules. I have 2 kids back in the UK and I never had any where near as much trouble with them - he's at least 10 times worse than the 2 of them put together. People always commented that my first two were very well-behaved and polite. I want this kid to be well-behaved too, but find it much more difficult in this country.

Before anyone says it, I know that there are badly behaved kids in Farangland too - I had a disagreement with my own brother because of the rough way his son treated my daughter without him doing anything about it, but this laissez faire attitude is much more prevalent in Thailand. I don't wonder that a lot of Thai women prefer farang men to Thai men - it's the way they let them do whatever they want and fawn over them so much when they are young boys that makes a lot of them so selfish and think they really are someone special.

I want to do the best thing for my son and that will not include letting him do whatever he wants. He's at a very important age when he has to learn that there are rules and limits to his behaviour. However now I don't know what I should do to discipline him outside the home. (I never hit him - I never hit my first two and they were perfectly behaved most of the time - in fact I think hitting children makes things worse as what they learn is that it's OK to hit). It has made me think twice about going out in public with him.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar to this? Any advice or comments would really be appreciated.

[sbk]

Well, Seahorse, I don't have kids but have lots of experience watching other peoples kids! First off, they stared at you because you were a farang yelling at your kid, probably wondered what was going on. Staring is not a thai thing, I lived in a small town in Taiwan before I came here and was stared at constantly, everywhere i went, like some kind of animal in a zoo. at least thai people only stare when something interesting is going on! I understand your annoyance at being stared at, maybe something like, "the show is over now!" would get to them, but, probably not.

Second, yes, I agree, there are lots of unruly kids here. People seem unwilling to discipline their children in public. I have noticed they pretty much let the kids run wild until they start school and then suddenly its a big crackdown. you get it back home too but yeah, I think it's worse here too. my sister came to visit with her 8 year old and everyone was astonished at what a well-behaved polite child he is.

Thai people here can't understand why my husband and I don't have children yet. what you have experienced is, frankly, one of the many reasons why we don't. I would be fairly strict, good behavior is mandatory in public and i would brook no interference from the numerous relatives and neighbors. I can just envision the social difficulties that would ensue should we have kids. Obviously there are other reasons we don't have children but this is one of them.

Can't give you much advice except hold your ground and demand good behavior from your child when he is with you will have some effect. good luck!

[Boo]

Hi Seahorse, I have to agree that the Thais in the shop were probably just looking because they wondered what the fuss is about, I know that they do not like public displays of emotion, positive OR negative & keep their business of disciplining children for in the home.

I have been at a friends house where his daughter has been talking to him & all of a sudden he has got up & whacked her one so hard across the legs & even I was shocked at the force of it. Apparently she had given him a bit of lip or had not been as polite as she should have & he makes no apologies, but if you were to see this guy out in public with her, you would think that she is allowed to do what she wants without consequence. This is NOT the case. But showing the public a problem with your child is like loosing face or something, so they wait until they are in the privacy of their home. The only reason they allow me to see this is because I have known her since she was a baby, so therefore I am like family & understand their reasons. (I don't really!)

My huband has no idea why his suggestion of giving our first born son (when we have it) to his mother to raise (as he wants him to have the same childhood as him!) is met with scoffs & "over my dead body" remarks. I have seen the way his mum disciplines his 2 neices who live with her (they got very sharp slaps around the head for not wai-ing to me once) and he thinks that the fact that she used to beat him & his brother with a stick when they were young, is a good way of parenting

In front of freinds though, she makes like these 2 are the most precious things in the world & laughs at their childish pranks! Talk about mixed messages.

I would say, continue to raise your son as you see fit, would you really want him to be one of the little buggers who gets away with murder in the streets & then plays the good son in the home. He's young enough to learn the way of right & wrong both in & out of the home & the only way he will is if you teach him.

[KevinN]

I can not see why you can make a child behave at home and let them run rampant in public,I have never seen a well mannered Thai,Young or adult,

They are never taught to show respect to anyone,especially the boys,that is one reason that Thailand along with Mexico will remain 3rd world countrys til the end of time,,

You cannot raise a child to do as they wish,then expect the to take orders from a boss when it comes time to go to work.

I raised my children with love and disipline,if need be and talking didn't work they got a spanking in home or away,and it started when they were babys,I don't see how you can let them get by with bad behavior for a time and then expect them to change overnite.

My wife is a school teacher here and she says that there is no disipline in schools either,seems like no one wants to instruct the children in how to behave but everyone expects them to grow to be productive adults when they never learned how.

I would get rid of the nanny first thing if she doesnt know what disipline is,and if she cared for my child she would make the child mind.even if it meant spanking the child,but I would brook no abuse,there is a big difference between the two.

When I went to school,which was some time ago,the teachers used to take us out in the hallway and lay it on if you misbehaved,and if you told your parents at home about it,they gave you another,now of coarse they would try to have the teacher arrested,but in my day,no one ever came to school and killed all his classmates and teachers either.but so is progress. But I will take the old way over the new.

[monitorlizard]

Goodluck Seahorse. I agree withthe others...don't put too much in the staring. When I taught in Japan a number of years ago, I felt like an animal at the zoo as well. I got stares on buses, trains, any any action I did in public. It was annoying at first but I got used to it.

In fact, some of my friends who worked in Japan for years and returned home started feeling the reverse. how come people aren't looking at me?

as a new father with a first child i can understand your feelings....you were trying to do something right and people started reacting.

don't worry about it! i know about the spoiling part because i am spoiling my new daughter 1 month old (now you know why i post so often). i pick her up immediately when i hear a cry and sometimes a wimper....

yesterday i saw 2 young boys running wild throughout the hospital....the parents did nothing, the father tried to say something but the kid blew him off....staff did nothing.....i wanted to say something but i refrained because holding my baby in my arms I thought would i like someone telling me how to raise my child???

seems that the face thing is really strong here.....no one wnats to hit or lose their temper wit their child in front of other thais or in public.....and the public seems to understand this by smiling and not saying anything.....

don't know what to say to you but good luck and do what you think is right....he is your child. the biggest help is consistency.....sounds like you have it but others around help don't always display it.....

anyone know how to de-spoil a child? my 1 month daughter has me wrapped around her tiny finger! i am forced to sing baa baa black sheep, the farmer in the dell, and miss mary mack and the story of the 3 little pigs over and over and over and over.....she falls asleep in my arms but when i put her in the crib she cries again....and the singing starts again....

anyway, good luck seahorse! i think children are the best thing in the world....and the best thing that has ever happened to me....

don't worry your kid is going to turn out just fine....the schools will straighten him out and you can start using the line "stop that! do you want me to tell your teacher?"

[plachon]

My 25 satang's worth Seahorse - is you have to think whether you want your son to grow up like his Thai contemporaries, or his UK contemporaries later on. parental discipline, for one reason or another, but both parents working is chief amongst them I suspect, is on the decline in both countries, but much faster in Thailand. Hence, the new generation of molly-coddled little Emperors/Empresses who think the world revolves round them and throw tantrums at the slightest thing, while getting away with murder (literally at the Chalerm's sons end of the spectrum!).

Having raised my daughter for a couple of years in UK and a couple more in Thailand, I've seen both society's norms in action quite recently. In the UK, parents tend to be stricter, but are split down the middle on the issue of spanking. Personally, I have no problem with it, as long as it is done fairly, after one or two warnings of not continuing the offending behaviour. In Thailand, as Boo said, it can come out of the blue and OTT violence, often just according to the mood of the parent, rather than the action of the kid, which hardly encourages learning behaviour.

As for the staring, it's normal whenever there's something out of the ordinary going on (refer to other thread on gawking at roadkill for clues). Don't take it personally or allow it to change your public behaviour towards your kid. There's nothing like a bit of public humiliation when he gets a little bit older, for rapid behaviour correction! Chill out and if needs be, stare the starers out!

[surin]

I can not see why you can make a child behave at home and let them run rampant in public,I have never seen a well mannered Thai,Young or adult,

They are never taught to show respect to anyone,especially the boys,that is one reason that Thailand along with Mexico will remain 3rd world countrys til the end of time,,

You cannot raise a child to do as they wish,then expect the to take orders from a boss when it comes time to go to work.

I raised my children with love and disipline,if need be and talking didn't work they got a spanking in home or away,and it started when they were babys,I don't see how you can let them get by with bad behavior for a time and then expect them to change overnite.

My wife is a school teacher here and she says that there is no disipline in schools either,seems like no one wants to instruct the children in how to behave but everyone expects them to grow to be productive adults when they never learned how.

I would get rid of the nanny first thing if she doesnt know what disipline is,and if she cared for my child she would make the child mind.even if it meant spanking the child,but I would brook no abuse,there is a big difference between the two.

When I went to school,which was some time ago,the teachers used to take us out in the hallway and lay it on if you misbehaved,and if you told your parents at home about it,they gave you another,now of coarse they would try to have the teacher arrested,but in my day,no one ever came to school and killed all his classmates and teachers either.but so is progress. But I will take the old way over the new.

Kev...You are certainly right...My 2 boys were going to be raised by my Thai wife, the Thai way....because of the mixed race influence, they are amazingly beautiful specimens, like all mixed race kids I suppose. The trouble is however, they began to show the traits of spoiled brats early on. My wife often threatened to kill me in my sleep as I went to hit them. Thankfully nowdays she has done the full circle and it's not me the boys have got to look out for

[monitorlizard]

seahorse

had to respond back after posing your question to my wife. she seems to think that the starers were responding to the unusual site of seeing a farang man with his child and the mother not being around. she went on to say that in thailand you always see moms with their sons and daughters and it is a rare site to see the father alone with his son/daughter. they probably were curious and even more curious how you were going to handle the problem.

they were probably amazed to see a farang man doing shopping with his son. i bet a lot of the women were thinking "i wish i could get my husband to do shopping and give me a break from the kids!" and the men were thinking. "hey this is women's work, where is his wife? maybe he is a widower?"

i bet i will get the same thing when i go out with my daughter in the future. my big problem is touching. my friends were upset when i politely asked them to wash their hands before holding my daughter. they were not too happy after i said my daughter was sleeping and if they didn't mind would they refrain from talking so loud. powerless, she woke up, they got to hold her and the wife and i spent the next 2 hours trying to get her back to sleep after they left. no i didn't get mad at them because my friends are really nice! i wish they would listen though.

hey this is fun. Dr.PP why don't you set up a thread for families?

[seahorse]

KevinN,

Getting rid of the nanny wouldn't do much good. I have to go to work and someone has to look after him. The obvious answer i.e. his mother, is not an option. I did send him to a nursery school but the people in charge there are young women who don't have kids of their own plus a lot of spoilt little rich kids who are very badly behaved. Not to mention that the nursery doesn't do my laundry, wash my dishes and clean the house! It would be difficult to get someone to replace her and someone else would probably be just the same and I feel that apart from the discipline aspect, she does look after my son pretty well. He is very fond of her and vice versa. I also believe that it's not a good idea to change a young child's environment too much. He's settled with her for the time being.

Monitorlizard,

I know it's difficult when you can't get your baby to sleep, but in general it's not a good idea to keep quiet all the time when she's sleeping. In the long run it would be better to get her used to sleeping with noise around. My mother used to do what you are talking about, i.e. ssssssssh, the baby's sleeping, and I am a very light sleeper as a result. I get woken up by little things. Not so my younger brother - as he had two elder brothers in the background when he was a baby, he could sleep through an earthquake!

Actually, I think one of the reasons why Thais seem to be able to sleep at any time any place any where is the lack of importance given to sleep when they are babies. The kids are not used to going to sleep same time every day (Thais just hate anything that smacks of routine, don't they?) and so the kids stay awake for longer than they should, building up sleep deprivation so that when they do sleep it's from exhaustion. Then when they are adults, they carry on with this lack of importance given to regular sleep and they are constantly tired. Have you noticed the number of people here with dark rings under their eyes?

I had constant arguments with my son's mother over this subject when he was a baby. I wanted to put him to bed same time every night (plus morning and afternoon) but of course she wanted to take him to show him off round her mates, etc, etc. Never mind what's good for the kid, please yourself, eh?

Sleeping is one of my pet subjects. Most people don't get enough sleep, not just in Thailand. Did you know that most traffic accidents are caused by the lack of sleep from the driver? Especially train accidents. And the Chernobyl nuclear accident? There are other examples but I can't remember them offhand.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You can set one up Monitor...and become famous. Go for it

[KevinN]

Seahorse,,I am with you on the set bed time and nap,and i don't believe in pussyfooting around when the kid is asleep,let them get used to some noise,and if they cry when young,,so what,they will soon see it does them no good and go to sleep.

As to the nanny,I guess that you are right,but have a talk with her and tell her that she works for you,that means that she must follow your wishes,I do know that a Thai cannot follow directions and will do the job the easiest way,and always turn out half assed work,I have had a house built,fence built and a lot of electrical and electronic work done and it was all half assed. So tell her do it my way or you will be replaced,she don't need to know you are bluffing,,

But the main thing I have found is be consistent in discipline,and that goes for anyone giving orders to the child.if it has to be a certain way,the child will understand,but not if allowed 3 times and then get the shit knocked out of em the 4th.

I raised my last child from the time she was 4 days old til she was 6 yrs and her Mexican illegal alien mother found out she could get $625 a month from SSA as a Dependant income,so she had the child returned to the states and kidnap charges filed. and she was a very well minded child from the time she took her first steps til she left here and returned to the states.

[monitorlizard]

good advice about the sleep but what do you do whenever you walk into the room and she starts crying? Yeah, you can tell that I am new at this! It seems that she can tell the sound of my footsteps and will start crying. Of course she immediately stops when I pick her up. I am never upset especially when I see that smile (or is it a facial expression from gas?) I do play classical music and nursery rhymes in the background to help get her to sleep.

anyway, I wanted to ask about feeding. it seems that my daughter falls asleep a lot when breast feeding. when my exhausted wife tries to cease being the milk dispenser, she wakes up and cries. Sometimes this can go on for hours.

when did you start taking your son outside? The wife says we should wait 3 months but I am anxious to buy one of those strappy things you put in the front and step out of the house from time to time. Thought about the zoo as it is so close. i was going to buy that swedish made baby bjorn but i think that it may be too hot to be worn here. what did you use? please don't tell me you carried you kid all the time.

sometimes it is difficult to have a different opinion , especially from women as they believe you have no clue. they laugh at me when i consult my book. I explain that the book was written by women who are doctors, nurses, and moms and a lot of research was conducted before printing the book. they still laugh and think i am cute and strange.

one more question. do you speak english to your son and your wife thai to him? if so, how is his language skills developing? we do this but it appears that i do more of the story telling and singing of songs. there is no way i am going to speak thai as i have a accent. if you don't mind can you share your experiences?

[sbk]

a good friend of mine is australian and her husband thai. they own bungalows so their son heard english alot (not just from mom) and thai (dad, his family, staff working there). He grew up fluent in both. spoke perfect southern thai dialect (hadn't started on bangkok thai by the time they moved to Oz) and perfect fluent english (ok, australian). No confusion at all on his part. Now I also have a thai friend, with a thai wife whose brother in law is australian (what is it with these ozzies?). His daughter speaks southern thai, central thai (mom is from suphan, dad from surat) and english (her aunt and uncle own bungalows). She is learning a few words of german from some friends of her fathers. Makes me feel like a total idiot! Her english is better than her teachers (she is 8). Again, no confusion.

Speak your native language with your baby all the time! It will only help.

[KevinN]

You can take the kid outside when ever you want,you can get a nice stroller that folds up to carry on the bus or put in the car,those carry thingys are awful hot to wear,.

and my mex wife and I lived together til the child was about a year old,and we divorced and the kid and I moved to the states and about 8 months later her mom showed up and we always spoke our native language to the kid,and she is proficent in both.as she had the kid 2 days a week.

Kids learn control facts at a very early age,if the kid is crying,check her to see if anything is wrong,if you can find nothing and no apparent colic,put her down and let her cry,it is good for the lungs and doesn't hurt anything accept a little noise,but living in thailand you must be able to stand some useless noise, and she will get over that form of control when she figures out that it don't work no more.

Little kids are a whole lot smarter than you figure,they have full brain power,but you teach them and they learn thru example..

[BigA]

Just My 2 cents! Most of the Thai Kids I see are are not well behaved at all. But if I compare this to the US that is just the case there also. I was born in a way different era and my father was military. The household was very strict. Things have really changed on how chidren are disciplined. Even in my high school you would get paddled for fighting. There is a general trend toward being very permissive, or accepting, and it is not a good thing, as the young people today have little respect. This can hurt them in being effective workers and communicators as adults!

[D80]

This is a really interesting thread. I vote for a family section too!

I don't have kids myself but am interested to see what people do. I agree that the lack of discipline now is appalling!! When I was growing up, I didn't get smacked at home either but I get told off instead. For me, as I can remember it, I find it a lot worse when mum and dad sat me down and talked through what I had done wrong. I got hit at Thai schools though. That was just the way it was then (I don't know about now). My parents didn't discipline me by smacking but they didn't have an issue with the school doing so. But to be honest, the hitting I received at school did nothing to me. In fact, it even made me more rebellious. Heheheh On a few occasions, the hittings in school was verging on abuse.... had it been in some other western countries, the teacher in question then would have been sacked for sure!

Anyhow, I have seen so many parents letting their children run wild. Many Thai parents won't let kids get away with things that involve respect to the parents themselves but will let the kids do whatever they want in any other matters. I have seen a Thai parent disciplining his son for talking back pretty severely but would let the boy torture the neighbour's cat without even a word of disapproval. It's disgraceful really. In my family, my sister and I were allowed to have our opinions and talking back was not really an issue as long as we were polite. But usually, once mum & dad said 'come & sit down, I/we want to talk to you about your behaviour', that was it. We had to endure hours of it. Ach!! If we talk back, they always have the answer and the conclusion was we did something wrong. That was just worst than any spanking I got growing up in Thailand. I don't know how they find time to do it then. It seems parents these days don't have as much time anymore. We didn't even have a nanny.

It's pretty typical for Thai family to have their children looked after by grandparents when the parents aren't around. In fact, if I have kids and we move back to Thailand, my mum & dad would expect to look after the kids when I'm not around. When my mum & dad were out to work, we were looked after by nan & grandad who were a bit more relax than them (as grandparents usually are). And anyway, we knew that we can't get away with things even if we are with nan & grandad as we live in the same plot of land. When mum & dad came home from work, if we had done something wrong, we would definitely be getting some sort of punishment. I had lots of good memories growing up with nan & grandad though. Grandad read loads of old literature to us and told us endless stories. Nan's cooked the best food in the world and taught us gardening and what Thai herbs can be used for what illness. Never a dull moment then. They never spanked us either. Their punishment methods were pretty much the same as mum & dad.

Another type of punishment my parents used on me was the taking away of entertainment when I misbehave. If we went out to the mall or wherever, and if I ever threw a tantrum, then back home was where we would be heading. Usually, we would get a warning first, then if we still misbehaved, that's it. Treat finished.

I think you should go ahead with disciplining your child in the way that you've already done. I think the people were staring mainly because you are a 1)farang 2)male with baby 3)doing what some Thais would think is a woman's work ie looking after the kids and doing the shopping, and 4)you were there on your own (without your wife).

I don't know how most Thais see staring as. I had been taught that staring is rude. I'm sure I still did it anyway as a child. As a grown up, it becomes a whole lot more subtle and most of my friends are the same. Having said that, I still insticntively turn to look if there is a sort of commotion or something out of ordinary going on. However, I wouldn't stare at a person in your situation. A stolen look, at most, but not full flight staring. Anyhow, try to ignore it if you can. They might not even mean anything by it.

I also agree that boys get a lot more freedom than girls. When I was little, some older relatives would always try to stop me from climbing trees or playing football while my boy cousins were having a rioteous time! Sometimes they got away with things I would not have got away with and some adults justified this by saying 'boys will be boys, they are more energetic than girls'. Ach!! It was pretty annoying. At home with mum & dad though, that's someting different. Although they try to raise us as a 'proper Thai lady' (whatever that means hehehe-I mean they can try, can't they, whether they succeed that's another story hahah), we were still allowed to play football, climb trees, wrestling around with our dogs and the lot! Some of my friends didn't get such freedom and were stuck with their dolls inside. Things must have changed a lot these days though.

I guess it helps that my mum & dad focus on discipline a lot. I don't know if that has anything to do with my family being lawyers. hahahah I have my routine more or less set, during the term time at least. I wasn't rigid but still something to follow. I don't know how they set it but that was just what my sister and I did as children. Once we got home from school, it's playtime for an hour or so depending if there's a lot of homework (if there was, then less playtime or none), then shower and dinner by 6.30-7, then homework until 8-8.30. 10 English vocabularies everyday after homework (done as a sort of a game rather than a study). In any event, it's bedtime by 9pm where mum used to read us stories until we could read ouselves. My sister, who is 4 years older, get to stay up a it later. I obviously don't know how it was when I was a baby or a toddler. But since kindergarten/primary school it was pretty much like this. They become less and less strict as I was growing up though.

This is great fun!! Let's talk about family more often!

[D80]

Just noticed the language issue:

Most of my friends with miix raced children where mum & dad speak different languages didn't have too much problem. They had been adviced by their doctors that if the dad speaks his language to the baby and the mum speaks hers, it is easier for the baby to learn. For example, if your language is English and your partner's Thai. Then you speak English to the baby and your wife speaks Thai to him/her. The kid will learn that one is a way to communicate with mum and another is a way to communicate with dad. Then they'll learn more about different languages as they grow up. That was just according to my friends' doctors.

The only problems some of my friends had come across was the kid starts speaking a bit later than other child with one language being used arounf the house. But they eventually catch up in the end. Some kids I have known mixed the languages together until the age of about 3-4. But that usually happens when the parents weren't strict about what langauage they use to communicate with the baby.

As I said before, I don't have kids myself yet. Heheh So, I could only said what I have heard/seen from friends or just telling my epereince growing up in Thailand. You guys with kids are probably more of an expert than me. heheheh

[monitorlizard]

I agree, this is fun. I especially am interested in learning about people's experiences in Thailand. D-80, you made some very valuable and interesting comments. Thanks so much.

I am thinking about the gender issue. Do I want my daughter to be the sterotypical woman as men expect them to be? I think not, but I am curious how she will react to society and peer pressures later in life. I hope the parents influence will prevent this.

My wife is certainly not submissive and we talked about spending some time in the US for elementary and high school during the Thai school hoildays. We also thought about Europe as well but not until she gets much older and can appreciate the culture there (museums, etc). This would be during the winters in the west so I think we can get by on a budget.

We thought that this would be a wonderful exposure to our daughter and open her mind how people react to each other in other cultures.

I know it is a little early to ask now, but what are the parents doing out there for your child's playmates? We live in Bangkok and there are no relatives nearby with small children. I am sure they will make friends at school but what do you do until they turn 5 or 6 years old?

We don't have a nanny nor to we expect to ever have one. It's not that I am against them and I certainly do not mean to offend anyone that employs them, but we are lucky to have so much free time on our hands. Anyway, I do realize the importance of having peers around. I view Thailand as being different than the US, Australia, or Europe. There, you can take your child to a park and meet other parents and they can play with other children. What about here? I think it is too hot?

I could be wrong but it seems that in Bangkok at least, that the kids are driven around a lot by the parents. Do the kids just stay at home until they reach school age? I certainly don't plan on doing this but I am curious what other parents are doing.

I totally agree with the comments by D80 regarding discipline. I realize that this is a very senstive issue but as parents we feel more comfortable with the talking it our approach. I do hope it works. However, I do realize that one must be consistent and start early in the child's life.

Yes, you are right about the young infant being smart. I watched a segment on BBC or a British documentary on child development. It showed an infant crying to get attention. The child did not need food or diapers changed but learned that if he/she cried then they would be picked up. I remember at the time that I told my wife that this would never happen to me.

Well now that I am a new father with his first child it is extremely difficult to follow the advice of letting our baby just cry. I rationalize the nurturing by wondering if our baby might have had a bad dream, was bitten by an ant, or a cramp, etc, etc.

I am getting better as I am trying to resist the temptation of picking her up. Before i do, I lay my hand on her chest and sing a short song. Amazingly, this sometimes works and she falls immediately alseep.

[seahorse]

I thoroughly recommend Miriam Stoppard's Baby Care Book, published by Dorling Kindersley, ISBN 0-86318-452-9. I've seen it in Asia Books. It's straightforward, clear and has answers to almost any question you could ask.

Crying

It's not a good idea to let very young babies cry. You should always attend to them - they cry because there's something wrong. Normally you should check 1. hunger, 2. tiredness 3. pain / discomfort e.g. dirty nappy.

It has been found that babies who are left to cry actually cry more than ones who are attended to promptly. They also learn that their parents don't care about them. Now when they're a bit older - 2 years for sure - sometimes they will cry to get attention or to create a fuss and they need to be left to it.

Monitorlizard, I would hazard a guess that your daughter just doesn't like being alone.

Language

The best thing for a child is to speak your own language to him or her, e.g. father speaks English, mother speaks Thai. They will learn to distinguish between the languages later. My son speaks English and Thai. He speaks English with me and Thai with everybody else. Sometimes he gets them mixed up e.g. I call sh it poo and Thais call sh it kii men, so he arrives at poo men.

I always speak English to my son. If he speaks Thai and I understand, I ignore it. (Actually I learn Thai from him, because he repeats words over and over, so I can hear the pronunciation and copy him!) His mother does use English words with him because she wants him to be able to speak English, naturally enough, but I discourage her from doing this because her grammar is poor, sometimes her pronunciation is too Thai and occasionally she uses the wrong word.

Discipline

A lot of people confuse discipline with physical punishment. They are NOT the same thing. I agree with DB80. I hated it when my parents gave me a talking to. They occasionally smacked me, but the one time I remember being given a walloping by my dad, I couldn't tell you exactly what it was that I had done, so what was the point of that? I know the real reason he did it was because my mother complained about me to him and he didn't like her moaning to him. She would say "wait till your father gets home" - what an abrogation of responsibility that is - make the man out to be the ogre.

I know my two-year-old doesn't like it when I complain to him - he wants me to tell him he's great and does things to win my approval like any normal little kid. And that is the most successful way to discipline a kid (same with dogs, BTW) - positive reinforcement is much more powerful than negative reinforcement. When they do something right, praise them. They love it. When they do something you don't like, try to ignore it unless it's dangerous to them or others (I'm talking about when they're very young). Make a few rules when they're about one year old and stick to them.

I had no trouble with my first son. When he started crawling we just put everything breakable out of his reach (much more difficult in Thailand) and the tv and video which were the only things he could reach were out of bounds. The first time he went near the tv I just lifted him away and set him down in a different part of the room. He went straight back to the tv. I did the same again. He looked at me, went back again and I did the same thing again. He never went near it again. It was that easy.

My brother, on the other hand, said things like "don't do that" to his kid but then didn't enforce it. I've seen countless parents doing this. They give up too easily (too lazy) and the kid then knows that if they just try often enough, the parent will give up.

That's the problem with my two-year-old now. He is so persistent, I have to tell him about twenty times before he gets the message, because other people just give in to him. Anything he wants he reckons he just has to harp on and on about it until I give in to him. Little does he know I'm more stubborn than him!

When kids get a bit older, you can withdraw privileges, as DB80 suggested e.g. "You're grounded!" or "No pocket money for 2 weeks". But if you get things right at the start, you can nip most bad behaviour in the bud. I said before my first two kids in the UK were almost perfectly behaved - I put this down to the fact that they learned very early that there were rules which were enforced.

Transport

I wouldn't try getting a stroller on a bus. Too awkward. And pavements / footpaths / sidewalks in Thailand leave a lot to be desired.

One of the best things is a baby sling. Babies love them. Babies like being jogged about - to them it's very similar to being in the womb. My kids all used to fall asleep when I carried them around. Even quicker is putting them in the car and going for a spin round the block when they won't sleep. Make sure you buy a child seat if you do this.

Anyway, enough. I hope this has been of help to someone.

Good luck with your kids.

[monitorlizard]

Great post seahorse. Sounds like you are a great dad and with lots of experience.

Re:slings

Did you get one that has a brass ring or did you just tie up the fabric? Did you have it made? If purchased, where? if you don't mind me asking.

I agree with you completely about the sling reminding the child about being in the womb.

I think the stroller isn't practical with all these cracked sidewalks etc. Great place for a stroller would be the shopping malls.

Its funny what you said about speaking English. I suggested to my wife that she only speak Thai to her and I could tell her feelings were hurt. She speaks well and her grammar is good but she does have an accent. I explained to her that children will copy their parents accents. Did she want our child to copy my Thai pronunciations?

This seemed to do the trick as she quickly realized that my pronunciation of Thai is terrible and seems to worsen with age. One of her relatives made a funny comment the other day. She asked me (in Thai), so are you going to speak better Thai so you can speak to your daughter?" Hmmm. "I will if you speak and teach English to my daughter," I responded. Silence.

[plachon]

Jeez, this thread is getting like Mummies and Daddies anonymous, so I've decided it's time to lighten things up a bit. This is going back to the original title of the post.

Turn away now if you're a bit sensitive, squeamish or too politically correct for your own good.

Question: How do you bring up a child in Thailand?

Answer: Stick your fingers down a soi dog's throat!

Don't complain now, I warned you.

[Nam Kao]

I cant wiat to get my kids (50 thai) over there for a good schallacking

Here in the US i'd be locked up

[Edward B]

I cant wiat to get my kids (50 thai) over there for a good schallacking

Here in the US i'd be locked up

You've got 50 Thai kids?? You wouldn't be locked up, you'd be revered!

[seahorse]

Monitorlizard,

You can get slings at Central or Robinson's Department stores easily enough. The one I bought was the most expensive one they had - about 1,000 baht. It was very useful and well worth the money. The cheaper ones would not have taken the weight of my son for too long - he's a big lad! - plus it was better made.

[seahorse]

I thought people might be interested in this article from The Guardian. Apparently smacking children is to be outlawed in the UK.