Red Shirts Put Lives On Hold To Camp Out In Bangkok

[generalgrant]

Strange but her majesties forces went in to protect the catholics (small c intended.) The last coup had the right idea, teach people about democracy. They just got the time scale wrong. I've said it before but I'll say it again.

1 People selling their vote should lose their right to vote for life.

2 People buying votes should not be allowed to stand for office of any kind.

Shit how hard can it be?

You imply with your post that only one side buys votes. I think that if we all think about it a minute, we see that has very unlikely to be true. if votes are so easy to buy, one would think the side with the most money would win each election. Well, we know the ruling class has more money than Bill Gates and yet they lost elections. maybe people are not so easy to buy as you think.

Email from my friend--a Yank in bangkok for 14 years.

FYI: yesterday I went down to Ratchaprasong intersection (WTC/Erawan/Gaysorn) and walked among the Red Shirts to see some of history. I wasn't scared so much as humbled. I got the sense that with some exceptions of course, these people are not tools of Thaksin. They're simply poor, uneducated Thais who realize that failure means at least another generation of poverty and neglect under this archaic, hierarchical patronage system. There are perhaps, and I'm talking out my ass of course, a couple hundred thousand sick rich Thais, a "middle class" of several million mostly Bangkokians, and a remaining 60 million rural folk, most of whom support the Reds. There is tremendous anger and frustration here among those economically marginalized Thais and they want their piece of the pie.

This is a pivotal moment in Thai history and the worst that could happen is an all or nothing stance by either side. If ever there where a time for mutual compromise this is it. Though highly unlikely, lets hope reason and cooler heads prevail.

[atyclb]

I know this has been mentioned before, but imagine 20k - 40k - 100k people camped out in Times Square, NYC. They stop traffic, cause the closure of businesses, threaten to sabotage/destroy the metro, want the current president to quit and dissolve the administration in preparation for new elections in 15 days or so.

Furthermore the protesters speak of arms and grenades they posses.

Forget about who may be funding the protest, or why. What do you think the response to them would be, or should be?

I imagine in light of the yellow airport sit in that the government had to give the reds equal time for their protest. Fair is fair although most of us find it unimaginable that any government in any country would allow an airport to be taken hostage.

I do not aim to criticize, only to analyze and try to understand.

[britmaveric]

^difference is, takes lot of logistics to do what reds/yellows did. You can easily stop this right from the get/go. Come on building a stage in the middle of the shopping district? This was allowed or it never would have happened.

[hanuman1]

Let's say Thaksin does make a comeback because of a successful red campaign. When he continues where he left off with the corruption, curtailment of freedom of speech, summary extrajuduical outcomes etc etc, do you think the general Thai population is going to let him take them up the ass again? I mean not just again from him, but again from all the ruling elitists that have always ruled the country.

Once he steps over a certain line, the merry-go-round will start again with the killings in the street etc etc. And then he'll have to go. And then the next rulers will come in.

I think the best hope is that as generations of leaders come and go, they are reminded more and more of the futility of trying to rob their own country people and that one day a critical mass will be reached where more of them would rather not 'shaft a Thai'.

Of course, we'll all be dead by then, but at least our grandkids (Thai, farang, whatever) might not have to deal with all this BS.

[Jingthing]

Strange but her majesties forces went in to protect the catholics (small c intended.) The last coup had the right idea, teach people about democracy. They just got the time scale wrong. I've said it before but I'll say it again.

1 People selling their vote should lose their right to vote for life.

2 People buying votes should not be allowed to stand for office of any kind.

Shit how hard can it be?

You imply with your post that only one side buys votes. I think that if we all think about it a minute, we see that has very unlikely to be true. if votes are so easy to buy, one would think the side with the most money would win each election. Well, we know the ruling class has more money than Bill Gates and yet they lost elections. maybe people are not so easy to buy as you think.

Email from my friend--a Yank in bangkok for 14 years.

FYI: yesterday I went down to Ratchaprasong intersection (WTC/Erawan/Gaysorn) and walked among the Red Shirts to see some of history. I wasn't scared so much as humbled. I got the sense that with some exceptions of course, these people are not tools of Thaksin. They're simply poor, uneducated Thais who realize that failure means at least another generation of poverty and neglect under this archaic, hierarchical patronage system. There are perhaps, and I'm talking out my ass of course, a couple hundred thousand sick rich Thais, a "middle class" of several million mostly Bangkokians, and a remaining 60 million rural folk, most of whom support the Reds. There is tremendous anger and frustration here among those economically marginalized Thais and they want their piece of the pie.

This is a pivotal moment in Thai history and the worst that could happen is an all or nothing stance by either side. If ever there where a time for mutual compromise this is it. Though highly unlikely, lets hope reason and cooler heads prevail.

Your "Yank" has some serious issues with the output of his talking arse. Thai middle class? About ONE THIRD of the population, not a few million people only in Bangkok. I also think he projected American naivete on why most of those 500 baht a day-ers are there.

Narong estimated the size of the middle class at more than 20 million people: about one-third of the Kingdom's population

.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/10...al_30026478.php

Edited April 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[SpoliaOpima]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

Whether you agree with then or not, these people believe that what they are doing is important enough for them to make some important sacrifices. It is a pity that "The Nation" and some people on this forum cannot see that.

edit to correct typo

Hmm guess you missed out on the general knowledge that they're being paid 500 baht (without vehicle) to 1000 baht (if they have their own vehicles) a day. Take a look at the gear, the stage, the lights, sound system, mass availability of brand-new silkscreened t-shirts. This is a paid demonstration led by thugs disguised as a grass roots movement. Sorry to flatten your fantasy

[SpoliaOpima]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

I really don’t care if these idiot put their life on hold since is theirs to do what they want. But they have no right to put everyone else in a situation that nothing is safe anymore. If Thaksin was a PM and they were in fight with them, he would not hesitate to kill all of these people

Good point.

[SpoliaOpima]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

I really don’t care if these idiot put their life on hold since is theirs to do what they want. But they have no right to put everyone else in a situation that nothing is safe anymore. If Thaksin was a PM and they were in fight with them, he would not hesitate to kill all of these people

Not really true is it given the length of time the PAD were protesting.

Yes - they were attacked by redshirt mobs.

Yes - they were bombed by 'unknown' assailants.

Yes - The were cornered at Parliament and bombed with Chinese military CS-gas canisters.

In the case of the PAD, the military refused to play ball, and the police are the police so not much help there either. There was no operation against the PAD that paralleled events on last Saturday night.

October 7, only the police are less organised than the army. But a bloody day it was.

Edited April 14, 2010 by SpoliaOpima

[davelec]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

Whether you agree with then or not, these people believe that what they are doing is important enough for them to make some important sacrifices. It is a pity that "The Nation" and some people on this forum cannot see that.

edit to correct typo

Hmm guess you missed out on the general knowledge that they're being paid 500 baht (without vehicle) to 1000 baht (if they have their own vehicles) a day. Take a look at the gear, the stage, the lights, sound system, mass availability of brand-new silkscreened t-shirts. This is a paid demonstration led by thugs disguised as a grass roots movement. Sorry to flatten your fantasy

Oh no poor people are being paid expenses so they can eat and drink-call off the revolt against the oppressive Amart. Campaigns cost money so what? Many are there without being paid and it's not really the issue, the issue is not even Thaksin, people here rant on about him far more than the reds do. These people are fighting to be heard and to have a say in the future, lets hope they get it.

[Jingthing]

The reds know it is bad PR these days to be too blatant about their Thaksin love. They fool nobody.

[bubba]

But large areas can only grow one crop a year. My girlfriend comes for a rural area 30 km outside of Chiang Rai. A very rural supposedly pro Thaksin area. She tells me, and I have spoken to them myself, they are not a fan of Thaksin and consider him yet another, in the long line, of corrupt leaders who does not care about them.

So from what I've seen all these people who talk about a landslide red victory have not talked to the massive silent majority. just the vocal minority.

It would indeed make sense that many farmers in Chiang Rai wouldn't be enamoured with Thaksin. After all, Thaksin cut a deal with the Chinese and pushed through a China-Thailand free trade agreement with amazing speed. One of the key provisions of the FTA was immediate, nearly unlimited and unrestricted access of cheap Chinese agricultural products duty-free into to Thailand. Much cheaper than what Thai farmers could get. Fields went fallow because it wasn't worth planting anything. Did all the northern redshirts forget about that, and later, the rice, cabbage and garlic farmer protests where farmers were dumping garlic and blocking roads in protest of Thaksin's FTA? From bilaterals.org: In all, the China-Thailand FTA has not benefitted small farmers on either side of the border. It has only been favourable for businessmen who control the trade and are able to use it to expand their contract farming operations, such as Thailand’s (ethnic Chinese-owned) Charoen Pokphand Group.

And have a look at the Wikipedia entry for Charoen Pokphand: The Charoen Pokphand Group was the major contributor to the Thais Love Thais party and still maintain a close relationship with the former Prime Minister Thaksin

Who profited from Thaksin's China-Thai FTA? The northern farmers, or the business elite who instantly found a new and huge source of income by being middlemen in wholesaling the cheap Chinese produce to Thais? Exactly which "elite" and what sort of corruption is this red shirt movement fighting for?

Email from my friend--a Yank in bangkok for 14 years.

FYI: yesterday I went down to Ratchaprasong intersection (WTC/Erawan/Gaysorn) and walked among the Red Shirts to see some of history. I wasn't scared so much as humbled. I got the sense that with some exceptions of course, these people are not tools of Thaksin. They're simply poor, uneducated Thais who realize that failure means at least another generation of poverty and neglect under this archaic, hierarchical patronage system.

And which "archaic, hierarchial [sic] patronage system would that be? Maybe something like the Thaksin-Charoen Pokphand syndicate that pushed through the FTA mentioned above, to line their own pockets at the expense of Northern Thai farmers?

So they aren't tools of Thaksin? They are precisely so.

[generalgrant]

Strange but her majesties forces went in to protect the catholics (small c intended.) The last coup had the right idea, teach people about democracy. They just got the time scale wrong. I've said it before but I'll say it again.

1 People selling their vote should lose their right to vote for life.

2 People buying votes should not be allowed to stand for office of any kind.

Shit how hard can it be?

You imply with your post that only one side buys votes. I think that if we all think about it a minute, we see that has very unlikely to be true. if votes are so easy to buy, one would think the side with the most money would win each election. Well, we know the ruling class has more money than Bill Gates and yet they lost elections. maybe people are not so easy to buy as you think.

Email from my friend--a Yank in bangkok for 14 years.

FYI: yesterday I went down to Ratchaprasong intersection (WTC/Erawan/Gaysorn) and walked among the Red Shirts to see some of history. I wasn't scared so much as humbled. I got the sense that with some exceptions of course, these people are not tools of Thaksin. They're simply poor, uneducated Thais who realize that failure means at least another generation of poverty and neglect under this archaic, hierarchical patronage system. There are perhaps, and I'm talking out my ass of course, a couple hundred thousand sick rich Thais, a "middle class" of several million mostly Bangkokians, and a remaining 60 million rural folk, most of whom support the Reds. There is tremendous anger and frustration here among those economically marginalized Thais and they want their piece of the pie.

This is a pivotal moment in Thai history and the worst that could happen is an all or nothing stance by either side. If ever there where a time for mutual compromise this is it. Though highly unlikely, lets hope reason and cooler heads prevail.

Your "Yank" has some serious issues with the output of his talking arse. Thai middle class? About ONE THIRD of the population, not a few million people only in Bangkok. I also think he projected American naivete on why most of those 500 baht a day-ers are there.

Narong estimated the size of the middle class at more than 20 million people: about one-third of the Kingdom's population

.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/10...al_30026478.php

Yeah but middle class by their definition starts at 10,000 baht a month income.

If we take the defintion down to 5000 baht a month, we can cut the poverty rate.

Sounds like pretty funny logic to me though.

Did you ever see what this government did to the students at Thomast University?

Same government.http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/5567592-people-of-no-property-and-elite-middle-class-in-siam

Same government

They love the Thai people?

[generalgrant]

Who was responsible here?

Same leaders run the nation still.http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/5567592-people-of-no-property-and-elite-middle-class-in-siam

[animatic]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

I really don’t care if these idiot put their life on hold since is theirs to do what they want. But they have no right to put everyone else in a situation that nothing is safe anymore. If Thaksin was a PM and they were in fight with them, he would not hesitate to kill all of these people

Not really true is it given the length of time the PAD were protesting.

Yes - they were attacked by redshirt mobs.

Yes - they were bombed by 'unknown' assailants.

Yes - The were cornered at Parliament and bombed with Chinese military CS-gas canisters.

In the case of the PAD, the military refused to play ball, and the police are the police so not much help there either. There was no operation against the PAD that paralleled events on last Saturday night.

October 7, only the police are less organised than the army. But a bloody day it was.

No Red Appologists ever consider that:

The army might have withdrawn support for Thaksin,

BECAUSE he had repeatedly shown little compunctions to taking of civilians lives.

When he was deposed from 'Expired Caretaker P.M. chair',

it was done with no loss of life or even visible danger in general.

Quick and painless and with most all in country being content with it.

The discontent came from the army not being good civilian mangers.

Soldiers don't like to think they must take orders from amoral madmen....

And since he was no longer a 'properly elected leader' of the nation,

they removed him from the vestiges of power he was clinging too.

For the good of the country.

But no one realized at that time, that he was crazy enough to actually

start a civil war, to get his face back....

In most civilized worlds that IS considered very crazy....

[jitenshaman]

a university education at least points you in the right direction of how the brain

should be used, something completely lacking in the current protesters...

like it was pointed out, how many educated university students are protesting?

ZERO

and of course you need a uni education to have a decent well paid career and

be a benefit to society, not a burden.... need i say more

The elitism grows in leaps and bounds here -- do you say that all who do not have a university education, are a burden to society and are no benefit to society -- who will grow your food ? --who will repair your car ? -- who will build your house ? -- etc !!!

The fact is that most in Thailand can not afford a university education -- they sometimes can complete their public schooling ( such as it is ) before they must start working to support their family.

Eton and Oxford are definitely not on the schedule for most Thais -- only honest, back breaking work until they die of 'old age' at a young age - yes, they smoke and drink too much, but so would you with their lifestyle..

Next thing, we will hear a repetition of that stupidity ( expressed during the airport seizure) about a constitutional amendment giving an extra vote to any with a university degree.

you're missing the point. You dont need a university education to start a revolution. And you are dead right, most of Thailand's rural and urban poor cannot afford nor are they privileged to an education, and i would say they are highly discriminated against. My point was merely in that huge numbers of successful revolutions around the world, students have taken large parts because they fervently believe in the democratic cause. In South Africa, Nelson Mandela was considered a criminal because of his skin color and because he represented the change that the government so feared...but the man who is sponsoring the Red Shirt movement is not a humble poor man who is a criminal because he is of dark skin or the rural poor. He is a megalomaniac billionaire who is as power hungry as any of the forces opposed to him. Additionally, Nelson Mandela never had 2500 people summarily executed without a trial. Have a viewing of the film Citizen Juling if you have a chance, it is primarily about the deep south of Thailand, and has many many references to the former PM and just how democratic he was.

[jitenshaman]

Wanna know what's sickening? Those who continue to blindly support a Prime Minister with blood on his hands. << That's sickening.

Thaksin is an ex-prime minister.

Fair enough.

But he's no longer in power now is he? No matter the outcome, I can't see Thaksin returning as PM.

if that was a guarantee and the Reds openly embraced that as part of their platform, they would have masses and masses of new supporters, myself included

[Throatwobbler]

you're missing the point. You dont need a university education to start a revolution. And you are dead right, most of Thailand's rural and urban poor cannot afford nor are they privileged to an education, and i would say they are highly discriminated against. My point was merely in that huge numbers of successful revolutions around the world, students have taken large parts because they fervently believe in the democratic cause. In South Africa, Nelson Mandela was considered a criminal because of his skin color and because he represented the change that the government so feared...but the man who is sponsoring the Red Shirt movement is not a humble poor man who is a criminal because he is of dark skin or the rural poor. He is a megalomaniac billionaire who is as power hungry as any of the forces opposed to him. Additionally, Nelson Mandela never had 2500 people summarily executed without a trial. Have a viewing of the film Citizen Juling if you have a chance, it is primarily about the deep south of Thailand, and has many many references to the former PM and just how democratic he was.

The laws of Thailand state that you can not hold political office unless you have a university degree. Not once have I heard a red shirt leader saying that this is unfair. Surely this is one of the biggest problems holding the poor back from having a say in politics.

Or maybe the red leadership realise that if the poor actually got a proper voice, someone who actually stands for them, then their days on the gravy train would be numbered.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Throatwobbler

[bubba]

Nelson Mandela was considered a criminal because of his skin color and because he represented the change that the government so feared...but the man who is sponsoring the Red Shirt movement is not a humble poor man who is a criminal because he is of dark skin or the rural poor. He is a megalomaniac billionaire who is as power hungry as any of the forces opposed to him. Additionally, Nelson Mandela never had 2500 people summarily executed without a trial. Have a viewing of the film Citizen Juling if you have a chance, it is primarily about the deep south of Thailand, and has many many references to the former PM and just how democratic he was.

And Nelson Mandela was sentenced and spent twenty seven long years in prison, being allowed one letter and one visitor per month. He was a strong and honourable man, and people respected him for that. Manedela was offered an early release, to which he replied " "What freedom am I being offered while the organisation of the people remains banned? Only free men can negotiate. A prisoner cannot enter into contracts." And he elected to remain in prison.

On the other hand, we have a billionaire having made a great deal of his plunder whilst in office, who was sentenced to two years in prison and after which fled to a live a life of luxury, commuting in a private jet between a series of mansions stretching from Hong Kong to London to Dubai.

I have yet to fathom how such a person can be seriously be considered to be the standard bearer of the oppressed in a struggle against the elite.

[kissdani]

Funny... can't see anything about this on the mict.go.th website. Are there any other sources apart from prachathai?

It's just yet another made up page to add to the confusion

It is just the daily MICT business, to close illegal websites or block the access to them of they are hosted outside Thailand. Actually not Big News and nothing new at all.

Really? Or is it UDD-style free speech ("free spit" transliterated to thai) and democracy?

Dude, what you wanna argue about? That websites are getting closed or access blocked is true. Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It is MICT daily business. Need another reference?:

MICT claims 300 radical sites found daily

BANGKOK, 11 April 2010 (NNT) – The Ministry of Information and Communication Technology (MICT) has daily detected over 300 websites containing radical political views that instigated violent actions among the public.

MICT Permanent Secretary, Sue Loruthai, stated the political turmoil in the capital Bangkok had continuously increased its level of intensity. MICT officials took a close watch online and detected over 300 websites a day that aimed at heating political conflicts.

In addition, the Director of MICT's Information Technology Supervision Office, Aree Jiworarak, elaborated that daily reports of 200-300 websites so far had been the highest number discovered per day. He listed current political situation and discordance of opinions were causes for site establishment.

MICT urged for public cooperation to report defamatory internet contents via Hotline 1212 or email them directly to [email protected].

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255304120038

[nakachalet]

eagleflyinghigh and geovalin.... and

friends and commoners.... alike and likewise....

who shall we bet on.... ?

the redshirts champion of mixing 20% truth with 80% lies.... or

the yellowshirts resurfacing to fight til the last man/woman.... for thailand and the chark-gri royal family.... or

the gentleman apisit's ability to ride out the storm....

-----

in all seriousness.... eagle and geo.... you misinterpreted the situation completely.... the truth appears to be that ....

the thai and chinese intellectuals will cite and side with the yellowshirts, but not with the redshirts who speak with forged tongue like the ancient whilte men.... LOL

and they will give their life to protect every inch of thailand and uphold the royal family;

but.... as for many local elected thai officials.... they are very much like willows.... blowing in the financial winds....

as a matter of fact, i just talked in person with former p.m. chuan this morning.... he appeared very confident that after the dust settled.... the court will find the CURRENT DEMOCRATIC PARTY, not guilty....

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

Indeed!

Time for revolution is more than ripe. If it could be peaceful like a slow but massive landslide it would be perfect.

One thing is clear: The rotten establishment must and will go. The simple Thais became more educated and are not willing anymore to be the slaves of a bunch of 100 000 people or so of the elite.

More intellectuals and even government officials will change side. //deleted//

Edited April 14, 2010 by nakachalet

[CrossBones]

Well someone should try to point out to them a world wide problem The top 20% have 80% of the wealth everywhere on the planet, and that will never ever change. So they had better get used to it.

so happy i am in the top 20%

I think youll find its more like the top 5% have 80% of the wealth in most western countries.

In less developed countries more like 2% have 90%

[Skywalker69]

Yes, these thugs are demanding that Abhisit leave Thailand with the obvious veiled threat of what will happen to him if he doesn't. The reds have ALREADY tried to assassinate Abhisit a number of times in the past. Get real. The red leaders are total thugs. And yet all these Europeans think they are OK. It's sickening.

Reds are this, reds are that... Blah blah.

Wanna know what's sickening? Those who continue to blindly support a Prime Minister with blood on his hands. << That's sickening.

Thaksin is an ex-prime minister.

Thanks God, may he remain a big capital X

[ralphlsasser]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

More Reds in the sois? Sure sensible people stay indoors while the reds roam the streets. On the outskirts there are very, very few red shirts. In addition, I hardly see any celebrating thais, most are not even wearing the flowery Songkran shirts.

Mt Thai wife says her friends not want to talk about

They all say the Red shirts are no good and make trouble for Issan Thais who live in Bangkok

But when she asks what it is like they say

Not effect us, they not come this area

So lets all stick our heads in the sand

what we can not see, can not be happening

This is the Thai way

Farangs will never understand

So true. That is the Thai way.

[Stjohnm]

I may be wrong but no one is planting or harvesting rice in issan at the moment and it is dry season I thought that planting was done between june and july and harvest between october and december ?

I was slightly confused by that one, เราทำนาหน้าฝน (rao tam naa naa Fon) as the Tongue Twister Goes. I know the in-laws farm in Sisaket isn't growing rice at the moment.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Stjohnm

[vicco]

Something puzzles me. This 500 baht a day payment the redshirts are supposed to be getting. In the early days of the protest the mantra was 2000 baht a day. Just go back and read some of the threads from a month ago...they were all getting 2000 a day then according to our "insiders". When did the pay scale change? Who came up with this information and from where....or is this another myth invented by somebody on Thaivisa who had never even met a member of the UDD? It's amazing how the bandwagon effect takes hold on these forums. How is it that some of my neighbors went to Bankok to join in the rally and not only did they not get paid anything, they actually made contributions to the movement to help with the expenses of running the thing. Quite a few people from my wife's village also, have gone and most I believe are back home now....I'm told nobody got paid anything except for the guy who drove the 30 year old bus that got them there. They were given food and drink by the organizers and a few people were given small amounts of cash to buy more....but more like 50 or 100 baht and certainly nothing like 500 baht a day. The UDD has well organized fund raising campaigns (just like any political party or movement in a western country) and a great many people seem to contribute, some very small amounts and some quite large....but all I hear is how it's all Thaksin money. There is so much hype, half truths and sheer nonsense surrounding these "discussions". We go around and around arguing with the same old tired rhetoric and establish nothing that an objective observer could accept as factual. I have tried posting specific questions on a number of issues on other threads but no answers are ever forthcoming...just the usual sweeping statements about how corrupt Thaksin is/was and how the reds are all just there for the money etc. I have "googled" myself half blind trying to find out why Thaksin is supposed to be such an arch-criminal, murderer, terrorist etc...all I come up with is a conviction for conflict of interest and a token 2 year sentence. Not citizen of the year material, but hardly qualifies him for the descriptions we keep getting on these threads....placing him in the same category as Hitler, Stalin, Saddam. He was accused of many things and he was charged with quite a list of things but he was not convicted of anything other than a relatively minor white collar crime. How did this amazing transition to Hitler status occur. (all other charges were either dropped or dismissed by the court) Many UDD supporters idolize Thaksin, and many apparently do not...the Reds are not in agreement on everything---except for the need to change the system. They may appear a bit rough around the edges, but the ones that I have met are much more savvy that most of us think. Personally I think some of their leaders are over the top, and there are probably some extremest splinter groups within their ranks, but nearly all movements of this type have such groups. They tend to be sidelined by the majority in the end because most people are not extremists by nature. There are no doubt extremist fractions on the Yellow side also...unfortunately is goes with the territory.

If someone has a civil answer I would like to hear it. If you want to do the usual thing and pick one line of this post out of context instead of responding to the post in its entirety, or engage in name calling or meaningless general statements please don't bother...there are hundreds of pages of meaningless statements on here already..Thanks

PS Just yesterday I saw/heard a woman yeling in English on Peoples Channel...she was screaming Abhisit..you are a murderer, you are corruption, you are terriost..Abhisit get out ....You see this works both ways.. That was just as ridiculous as some of the things the anti reds have been saying over and over about the reds and their spiritual leader. Not fair and balanced....we have to go to FOX news for that...

[danc]

Something puzzles me. This 500 baht a day payment the redshirts are supposed to be getting. In the early days of the protest the mantra was 2000 baht a day. Just go back and read some of the threads from a month ago...they were all getting 2000 a day then according to our "insiders". When did the pay scale change? Who came up with this information and from where....or is this another myth invented by somebody on Thaivisa who had never even met a member of the UDD? It's amazing how the bandwagon effect takes hold on these forums. How is it that some of my neighbors went to Bankok to join in the rally and not only did they not get paid anything, they actually made contributions to the movement to help with the expenses of running the thing. Quite a few people from my wife's village also, have gone and most I believe are back home now....I'm told nobody got paid anything except for the guy who drove the 30 year old bus that got them there. They were given food and drink by the organizers and a few people were given small amounts of cash to buy more....but more like 50 or 100 baht and certainly nothing like 500 baht a day. The UDD has well organized fund raising campaigns (just like any political party or movement in a western country) and a great many people seem to contribute, some very small amounts and some quite large....but all I hear is how it's all Thaksin money. There is so much hype, half truths and sheer nonsense surrounding these "discussions". We go around and around arguing with the same old tired rhetoric and establish nothing that an objective observer could accept as factual. I have tried posting specific questions on a number of issues on other threads but no answers are ever forthcoming...just the usual sweeping statements about how corrupt Thaksin is/was and how the reds are all just there for the money etc. I have "googled" myself half blind trying to find out why Thaksin is supposed to be such an arch-criminal, murderer, terrorist etc...all I come up with is a conviction for conflict of interest and a token 2 year sentence. Not citizen of the year material, but hardly qualifies him for the descriptions we keep getting on these threads....placing him in the same category as Hitler, Stalin, Saddam. He was accused of many things and he was charged with quite a list of things but he was not convicted of anything other than a relatively minor white collar crime. How did this amazing transition to Hitler status occur. (all other charges were either dropped or dismissed by the court) Many UDD supporters idolize Thaksin, and many apparently do not...the Reds are not in agreement on everything---except for the need to change the system. They may appear a bit rough around the edges, but the ones that I have met are much more savvy that most of us think. Personally I think some of their leaders are over the top, and there are probably some extremest splinter groups within their ranks, but nearly all movements of this type have such groups. They tend to be sidelined by the majority in the end because most people are not extremists by nature. There are no doubt extremist fractions on the Yellow side also...unfortunately is goes with the territory.

If someone has a civil answer I would like to hear it. If you want to do the usual thing and pick one line of this post out of context instead of responding to the post in its entirety, or engage in name calling or meaningless general statements please don't bother...there are hundreds of pages of meaningless statements on here already..Thanks

PS Just yesterday I saw/heard a woman yeling in English on Peoples Channel...she was screaming Abhisit..you are a murderer, you are corruption, you are terriost..Abhisit get out ....You see this works both ways.. That was just as ridiculous as some of the things the anti reds have been saying over and over about the reds and their spiritual leader. Not fair and balanced....we have to go to FOX news for that...

+1 - thank you.

I don't like Thaksin, I think many of the red leaders are as nutty as a fruitcake but I am sick of the endless line trotted out by this forum that they are all terrorists - they are fighting against an equally well-oiled machine that used the exact same tactics to get their way (airport and government house), having used a coup to get the incumbents out in the first place (2006)..and before the line that they did not have guns at the airport gets used, the army would not go in as they were all on the same side, so it is impossible to know what might have happened had they taken the same course as Saturday night - it is a non-argument...

There is so much propaganga swilling about now on both sides, it just fuels the fire - Abhisit is not a terrorist, a murderer or anything else so daft but he was a willing participant in the events I have just outlined above and if he really was the great hope of democracy, the one clean one in amongst all this nonsense, he would have come out and condemned it, not sat on his hands whilst the coalition parties were bought out by the army, not whitewashed any attempt to prosecute the leaders of the yellows and amazingly appointed Kasit as his foreign minister, a man who makes a mockery of this country in Washington by using allusions to every dictator under the sun - the only other chap that frequently does that comes from Iran and he is hardly a beacon of democracy....

[Dizzle]

I may be wrong but no one is planting or harvesting rice in issan at the moment and it is dry season I thought that planting was done between june and july and harvest between october and december ?

Yes you are wrong, parts of issan can grow two crops a year, definitely in parts of Surin

He is not entirely wrong. The primary growing season does typically begin in May-June when the rain is expected to begin. The primary harvest is toward the end of the calendar year. In a few regions (perhaps Surin, as you claim), a secondary growing season is possible.

However, with the current drought situation, it is likely that secondary harvests will be substantially lower than expected.

It is quite possible, if not likely, that the "withering crops" described in the article would be withering whether or not the quoted farmer were here or back on the farm. However, being at the red shirt rallies, with the free food and water purportedly available there, doesn't seem to be a bad alternative to toiling over dried-up rice paddies. Throw in some monetary compensation and it becomes a no-brainer.

This is purely speculative, of course.

[midas]

I have "googled" myself half blind trying to find out why Thaksin is supposed to be such an arch-criminal, murderer, terrorist etc...all I come up with is a conviction for conflict of interest and a token 2 year sentence. Not citizen of the year material, but hardly qualifies him for the descriptions we keep getting on these threads....placing him in the same category as Hitler, Stalin, Saddam. He was accused of many things and he was charged with quite a list of things but he was not convicted of anything other than a relatively minor white collar crime. How did this amazing transition to Hitler status occur. (all other charges were either dropped or dismissed by the court)

Blame Jingythingy for that

[anotherpeter]

Vicco, you might try doing a search for "googling for dummies" to help with your research.

Even a simple look at the wikipedia page would give you a fair guide for what Thaksin is accused of. That would easily lead to plenty of other documentation, for and against, of his deeds.

Edited April 15, 2010 by anotherpeter

[bkkjames]

I have the solution.

Recently the gov came into possession of 46 billion baht (that's 46 thousand million for those who can't count ),

As a gesture to all those left behind in 'Red Land", and to show how much the former PM actually cares about them, the goverment will deposit in each of their accounts 10,000 baht per month until the money runs out.

This offer is only available to non protesting citizens from Red Land. The offer expires in 48 hours.

Win win for all except a very few.