Thai Army Says Planning Operation To Clear Protesters

[niveknedwob]

Actually ... rethinking my earlier philosophy ... any attemp at 'clearance' of Rajprasong by the army should target the women and children first. That will get the 'strong fighting men' thinking ... or at least stir them into such a frenzy that the best thing possible is to shoot them dead.

Just an idea. TV is boring ... I haven't got cable or satellite.

[tingtongfarang]

it's amazing that this army can't even surround a hotel and remove some fat middle aged men from a room without incident. If the army can't protect the country against a bunch of farmers with sticks, what the heck would they do if say someone like Cambodia decided this would be a nice country to have? I wonder how many countries out there are looking at Thailand as possible fair game, seeing how helpless they really appear. Maybe the moral of the story is, image is just that, all show and no substance. Time to get it together and prove it has what it takes to protect the women and children, or maybe the women and children should do it instead?

Wasn´t it security forces from the famous incompetent thai police that tried to arrest the leaders? I think they made a call to someone and asked how much they get paid to mess it all up.

Tea money! Need their tea money! If they're not careful and dont get their national security act together they are going to be speaking Cambodian or Chinese. Don't think they are'nt watching this travesty!

IF the state paid the police force a decent wage they (probably the most of them) won't need to play everybody for "tea money". Heads should roll for this blunder - but I doubt if that will happen aswell.

It,s a little nieve to assume that giving them a wage increase would turn whats said to be the biggest criminal gang in thailand into good guys, I believe its already been suggested they should be abolished,

Atleast the current ligit PM started by trying to stop the pay for promotion system the police have.

Edited April 17, 2010 by tingtongfarang

[humfurry]

Actually ... rethinking my earlier philosophy ... any attemp at 'clearance' of Rajprasong by the army should target the women and children first. That will get the 'strong fighting men' thinking ... or at least stir them into such a frenzy that the best thing possible is to shoot them dead.

Just an idea. TV is boring ... I haven't got cable or satellite.

Personaly I think that the bar girls from Nana and Cowboy should riot... they are the ones sending all the money home to their moms... I think they could take the Red shirt men.

Edited April 17, 2010 by humfurry

[commons]

I just think that the after picture looks false. Also it is much easier to add to picture than to take away. Especially in a tight time frame. Also in the after picture the added parts look fuzzy and hard to make out any individuals. Just a muddle of colours really. You must admit the before picture looks much more genuine.

jucel I agree... I'd love to have a bit more resolution... where did you find the original and the PS?

yeh a bit more resolution would be good. I just found it when i was browsing earlier. If i find the original source i will post it!

here's a link to photo left. it's on nation facebook site. it seems to refer to CNN as a source - but i can't read the thai caption

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3878...id=328167122854

[humfurry]

I just think that the after picture looks false. Also it is much easier to add to picture than to take away. Especially in a tight time frame. Also in the after picture the added parts look fuzzy and hard to make out any individuals. Just a muddle of colours really. You must admit the before picture looks much more genuine.

jucel I agree... I'd love to have a bit more resolution... where did you find the original and the PS?

yeh a bit more resolution would be good. I just found it when i was browsing earlier. If i find the original source i will post it!

here's a link to photo left. it's on nation facebook site. it seems to refer to CNN as a source - but i can't read the thai caption

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3878...id=328167122854

Thanks

[niveknedwob]

It has already been proposed by the government that they will provide FREE transport to those 'red shirts' that want to go home. Can we elect for all such transport to go to Pattaya (with an intensive Russian language course provided on the journey).

Might hopefully eradicate two different piles of sh1t at the same time.

[AsiaCheese]

To date, in North Eastern Thailand the soils are dry, Most of the farmers have already prepared the soils. There is only one crop per year. My wife and her brother/sisters are helping her old father (70) when necessary, myself (when I can do it), but now nothing to do just to wait, we are at least at one month of the rain. The village and surroundings have only 2 small tractors. The fields are prepared with the "Tic Tacs". Few buffalos because during the dry seasons no food for them. Similarly only few cows. a Little of Rubber trees do exist mainly nearby Siwilai. But Nakhon Phanom is too dry.

Northern Thailand is very unlucky with this long dry season. Rain arrives lately one month at least after Bangkok. Successive governments have done very little, irrigation should be organised. Pumping is not the solution because in the region there are salt rock at 100m underground (Tha Phanom), salted water is not good for irrigation. Important investments have to be done. I am not a water specialist but I guess taping water from Mekong is probably the solution. Local Universities (Nakhon Phanom, Sakhon Nakhorn) are too weak in term of teachers and investments for helping seriously.

Maybe 10 days ago, I have supported the idea, same as several posters, that Grouping of Farmers was required into Cooperatives or similar. Those cooperatives should be subsidised for purchasing a minimum equipment like tractors....

The rice is of poor quality and difficult to sell. my father in law makes baskets. It is a small income 20/40 Thai bahts per day or is fishing in a small lake/reservoir

Farming in this part of Thailand is not a business it is a survival activity.

There have been great efforts since 1974 to form "co-operative activities" and centers by The Population and Community Development Association (http://www.pda.or.th) -- closely related to Cabbages & Condoms and Dr. Mechai Viravaidya. The initial effort "back then" was to reduce unsustainably large countryside families and help fight AIDS (this is where Khun Mechai and condoms come into play...). The focus today is in trying to educate farmers -- not by spreading money, but by spreading knowledge. 800 employees and 12,000 volunteers.

Seeing efforts like these by an NGO is more than encouraging; it's what one would expect to see from a government (of whatever color). And it would be something I'd expect to see from the pseudo-do-gooders in red shirts (ahhh, dream on...)

[jucel]

I just think that the after picture looks false. Also it is much easier to add to picture than to take away. Especially in a tight time frame. Also in the after picture the added parts look fuzzy and hard to make out any individuals. Just a muddle of colours really. You must admit the before picture looks much more genuine.

jucel I agree... I'd love to have a bit more resolution... where did you find the original and the PS?

yeh a bit more resolution would be good. I just found it when i was browsing earlier. If i find the original source i will post it!

here's a link to photo left. it's on nation facebook site. it seems to refer to CNN as a source - but i can't read the thai caption

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3878...id=328167122854

perfect thanks!! look at the after picture. there is no green van at the back!!!!!!!!! it has been fudged!

[WAERTH]

To date, in North Eastern Thailand the soils are dry, Most of the farmers have already prepared the soils. There is only one crop per year. My wife and her brother/sisters are helping her old father (70) when necessary, myself (when I can do it), but now nothing to do just to wait, we are at least at one month of the rain. The village and surroundings have only 2 small tractors. The fields are prepared with the "Tic Tacs". Few buffalos because during the dry seasons no food for them. Similarly only few cows. a Little of Rubber trees do exist mainly nearby Siwilai. But Nakhon Phanom is too dry.

Hmmm it has been raining for 2 days now in Don Tan district in Mukdahan according to family there. They are optimistic about an early start to planting.

W

[niveknedwob]

" Population and Community Development Association (http://www.pda.or.th) -- closely related to Cabbages & Condoms and Dr. Mechai Viravaidya."

They will be the ones 'trying out' the village gals to see if they are OK to go and work in the big city then I guess. And you thought that the catholic church was full of 'perverts'. 555

Names of institutions, and titles (eg Pope), mean nothing. If you are prepared to quote them as 'the good people' then you are asking for a bit of digging into their operations that will not necessarily result in you having a peaceful nights sleep.

Edited April 17, 2010 by niveknedwob

[animatic]

Focus on Thaksin as protest paymaster

http://www.smh.com.au/world/focus-on-thaks...00416-skgu.html

Thanks for the link.

Wonder why Thaksin is so quiet? What about the cancer rumouers?

I think he is quiet now because of the criminal implications against him if the reds fail. All of the red leaders have arrest warrants on them, and if the reds lose, things could get even trickier for Thaksin, with fewer and fewer countries willing to accommodate Mr. Hot Potato. Also he clearly can no longer be politically active from Dubai. Also remember the sniper business is still open to investigation.

Now that the conflict has entered the lethal violence stage, he doesn't want to be seen as openly supporting that, leading that. He won't have a problem if it works, but that would seriously hurt his future if it doesn't work.

Even if it does work, if he is seen too aligned with those who created violence, ie Sae Daeng and the Ronins,

assorted black warriors, renegade army or any of the combinationas.

Then, even as national leader, or deal negotiating puppet master, he would be a international pariah,

and the big business dealers he would want to get into bead with would shun him, as bad juju for their other holdings world wide.

Just as those doing business with Myanmar junta are few and far between, or amorally thick faced.

Some say it's getting like Burma from Abhisit not resigning, but it would REALLY end up like Burma

if Thaksin gained control after leading the creation of a bloodbath, and the necessary control mechanisms

to hold back the peoples hate from him no matter how he tried to hide the tentacles of his culpability.

He imagined he could be the white knight, and yet he hasn't rbnought down his foe,

just drawn his opponents closer together, and weakened the positions of his puppets appreciably.

[commons]

I just think that the after picture looks false. Also it is much easier to add to picture than to take away. Especially in a tight time frame. Also in the after picture the added parts look fuzzy and hard to make out any individuals. Just a muddle of colours really. You must admit the before picture looks much more genuine.

jucel I agree... I'd love to have a bit more resolution... where did you find the original and the PS?

yeh a bit more resolution would be good. I just found it when i was browsing earlier. If i find the original source i will post it!

here's a link to photo left. it's on nation facebook site. it seems to refer to CNN as a source - but i can't read the thai caption

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3878...id=328167122854

i found it. it's hilarious. pic on right has _obviously_ been manipulated & posted on cnn's ireport. poster calls himself "zapruderson" (funny, isn't it?) here's link

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-433271

[rabo]

Sure. 35 years later. On the corpses of how many people, do you reckon? Cambodia also an "interesting" example of what can happen when totalitarian "red" movements prevail.

Such a fair example of your open mind:

You choose to open the discussion on Viet Cong, then realising it is not the good example you jump to Cambodia!!!!

Concerning the vietnam, French and US we have lost the war there because they were fighting for their Country.

French we have started the war particularly under the lobbying of capitalists like Michelin (Rubber plantations), at the end of the French Vietnamese war....we have discovered that those capitalists have sold most of their vietnamese assets for reinvesting in South America, Our soldiers were continuing to fight and are dead believing they were protecting their interests.....This is one facet of Capitalism. Sharks!!!

How does Vietnamese history relate to the current problems in Thailand? Besides, your example of a nation fighting for their country is wrong. North and South Vietnam were never a single unified country until the French became involved. Then the French chopped it into administrative regions.

[jucel]

look at the nation's pic. there is a green van at the back. ok, now look at the before pic. the green van is still there. look at the after and it has been covered up with photoshop!!!!!!!

[rabo]

look at the nation's pic. there is a green van at the back. ok, now look at the before pic. the green van is still there. look at the after and it has been covered up with photoshop!!!!!!!

Where are these pictures, can't find them.

[BNZ]

 

It is a Pi in a Violin.... 40% of the population is concerned by drought, rice, rubber price (around 25 Millions people far from the 0.5 million).... Mini measure "Cosmetic", NOTORIOUSLY INSUFFICIENT.

Thai Agriculture needs a "MARSHALL PLAN", present your cosmetic measures to the Kindergarden, they may be impressed.

 

To date, in North Eastern Thailand the soils are dry, Most of the farmers have already prepared the soils. There is only one crop per year. My wife and her brother/sisters are helping her old father (70) when necessary, myself (when I can do it), but now nothing to do just to wait, we are at least at one month of the rain. The village and surroundings have only 2 small tractors. The fields are prepared with the "Tic Tacs". Few buffalos because during the dry seasons no food for them. Similarly only few cows. a Little of Rubber trees do exist mainly nearby Siwilai. But Nakhon Phanom is too dry.

Northern Thailand is very unlucky with this long dry season. Rain arrives lately one month at least after Bangkok. Successive governments have done very little, irrigation should be organised. Pumping is not the solution because in the region there are salt rock at 100m underground (Tha Phanom), salted water is not good for irrigation. Important investments have to be done. I am not a water specialist but I guess taping water from Mekong is probably the solution. Local Universities (Nakhon Phanom, Sakhon Nakhorn) are too weak in term of teachers and investments for helping seriously.

Maybe 10 days ago, I have supported the idea, same as several posters, that Grouping of Farmers was required into Cooperatives or similar. Those cooperatives should be subsidised for purchasing a minimum equipment like tractors....

The rice is of poor quality and difficult to sell. my father in law makes baskets. It is a small income 20/40 Thai bahts per day or is fishing in a small lake/reservoir

Farming in this part of Thailand is not a business it is a survival activity.

If your extracting one rice crop a year when the norm now is three crops a year you have a serious dilemma, change to a more suitable crop ..if there is one for that soil, or ..move !

How about grapes/wine. Good for dry ground, plant a few vines around the edges as a trial and I'll be the first to buy a bottle.

Unfortunately Jerry you can't extract blood from a stone ...or soil, it's futile. You have to do what millions of people over thousands of years have had to do, suffer, adjust or move on. I have been forced into this myself ..I don't expect any government to subsidize me or support me in any way. And in your situation, the same as thousands/millions of others in Thailand Thaksin and his Red Shirts can't help you, no matter what they say, you'll still be ploughing the same dry, salty fallow ground. 

The same dry, salty, fallow political ground !

 

[Skywalker69]

Actually ... rethinking my earlier philosophy ... any attemp at 'clearance' of Rajprasong by the army should target the women and children first. That will get the 'strong fighting men' thinking ... or at least stir them into such a frenzy that the best thing possible is to shoot them dead.

Just an idea. TV is boring ... I haven't got cable or satellite.

Personaly I think that the bar girls from Nana and Cowboy should riot... they are the ones sending all the money home to their moms... I think they could take the Red shirt men.

I wonder how many Bangkokians are sending their hard working money back up North?

[jucel]

look at the nation's pic. there is a green van at the back. ok, now look at the before pic. the green van is still there. look at the after and it has been covered up with photoshop!!!!!!!

Where are these pictures, can't find them.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3878...id=328167122854

the others are on pages of the forum - called before and after

[Supernova]

Jerry, Thai labor is already overpriced internationally relative to what they offer and the cheapness of the competition. If it gets much more expensive, more international firms will just skidoo. Nothing personal, just business. A red "peoples" revolution will not translate into low skill factory workers making 500 baht an hour, that you can bank on mate.

you do not want to understand... instead to buy Strategic balloons, GT 200, submarines (when the sea depth is ridiculous for their utilisation) and to make grandiose hyper highways.... in Bangkok....

Just revise the Budget , implementing a correct infrastructure (Railways), decentralising some industries, supporting the income of farmers until the rationalisation of agriculture is done.

(Europe and USA ARE subsidising their farmers, why you, Farangs, you are opposed to the same thing in Thailand?)

It's a shame no one wants to give Abhisit time to implement those kinds of policies which are among his intentions. Instead, these rallies try to obfuscate his national agenda and paint him as the architect of the people's suffering. Who stands to gain from that aside from upcountry puyai? Those who have crippled the minds of these people and put shackles on their lives are the same people who pay their busfare to Bangkok and their per diem. It's a bloody shame.

Abhisit never had a chance to begin with and probably never will. He's been manipulated, pushed, and shoved the whole time not only from the top brass, but also from senior members of his own party. He doesn't have the experience nor the respect of fellow MPs needed to push forward. When you've got mongrels like Newin and Suthep at your side making up the rules as they go, it's impossible to get anything done. Add the aristocrats with their own agenda into the mix and all hel_l breaks loose.

No one person can be blamed for the people's suffering. It's a problem which all Thais must solve collectively. While I admit the Red leaders have gone overboard in criticizing Abhisit, let's not forget HE IS the front man. As PM, he cannot avoid responsibility as it's part of the job. It's normal for a man of his position to be subjected to abuse. No real surprises there.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Supernova

[commons]

{snip}

here's a link to photo left. it's on nation facebook site. it seems to refer to CNN as a source - but i can't read the thai caption

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3878...id=328167122854

i found it. it's hilarious. pic on right has _obviously_ been manipulated & posted on cnn's ireport. poster calls himself "zapruderson" (funny, isn't it?) here's link

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-433271

& here's original photo that appeared in this thread.

same poster on ireport, zapruderson (so funny [ok guys in case you don't know. there's a famous short movie of kennedy's assassination: the "zapruder movie". it's one of the gemstones of 20th century urban folklore]). he claims to show that thai media use manipulated footage. though i haven't seen anyone using the material he's referencing to - except him ;-)

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-433057

[Skywalker69]

Focus on Thaksin as protest paymaster

http://www.smh.com.au/world/focus-on-thaks...00416-skgu.html

Thanks for the link.

Wonder why Thaksin is so quiet? What about the cancer rumouers?

I think he is quiet now because of the criminal implications against him if the reds fail. All of the red leaders have arrest warrants on them, and if the reds lose, things could get even trickier for Thaksin, with fewer and fewer countries willing to accommodate Mr. Hot Potato. Also he clearly can no longer be politically active from Dubai. Also remember the sniper business is still open to investigation.

Now that the conflict has entered the lethal violence stage, he doesn't want to be seen as openly supporting that, leading that. He won't have a problem if it works, but that would seriously hurt his future if it doesn't work.

Even if it does work, if he is seen too aligned with those who created violence, ie Sae Daeng and the Ronins,

assorted black warriors, renegade army or any of the combinationas.

Then, even as national leader, or deal negotiating puppet master, he would be a international pariah,

and the big business dealers he would want to get into bead with would shun him, as bad juju for their other holdings world wide.

Just as those doing business with Myanmar junta are few and far between, or amorally thick faced.

Some say it's getting like Burma from Abhisit not resigning, but it would REALLY end up like Burma

if Thaksin gained control after leading the creation of a bloodbath, and the necessary control mechanisms

to hold back the peoples hate from him no matter how he tried to hide the tentacles of his culpability.

He imagined he could be the white knight, and yet he hasn't rbnought down his foe,

just drawn his opponents closer together, and weakened the positions of his puppets appreciably.

Good point.

[BNZ]

 

Even if it does work, if he is seen too aligned with those who created violence, ie Sae Daeng and the Ronins,

assorted black warriors, renegade army or any of the combinationas.

Then, even as national leader, or deal negotiating puppet master, he would be a international pariah,

and the big business dealers he would want to get into bead with would shun him, as bad juju for their other holdings world wide.

Just as those doing business with Myanmar junta are few and far between, or amorally thick faced.

Some say it's getting like Burma from Abhisit not resigning, but it would REALLY end up like Burma

if Thaksin gained control after leading the creation of a bloodbath, and the necessary control mechanisms

to hold back the peoples hate from him no matter how he tried to hide the tentacles of his culpability.

He imagined he could be the white knight, and yet he hasn't rbnought down his foe,

just drawn his opponents closer together, and weakened the positions of his puppets appreciably.

Agreed, Thaksin has now been exposed nationally and internationally as a leper !

[LuckyFive8888]

RedPhanFa's blog seems to think an attack will kick off at 4am (12 minutes ago, but this is Thailand, no-one's punctual). Anyone got confirmation either way about tanks being seen etc? http://redphanfa2day.wordpress.com/2010/04...-ratchaprasong/ for those who are interested.

The Reds (leaders) always knew what was going to happen because of someone inside the military or high police is spying for them. Thaksin's military connections and previous classmates are still loyal to him. General Anupong has to identify these breakaway factions of the military that is jeopardising the crackdown of the Reds, only then, the military would be able to capture the leaders even with 'tomato police' executing the plan and clear the rally site successfully on a timely manner.

Good luck to General Anupong!

[humfurry]

To date, in North Eastern Thailand the soils are dry, Most of the farmers have already prepared the soils. There is only one crop per year. My wife and her brother/sisters are helping her old father (70) when necessary, myself (when I can do it), but now nothing to do just to wait, we are at least at one month of the rain. The village and surroundings have only 2 small tractors. The fields are prepared with the "Tic Tacs". Few buffalos because during the dry seasons no food for them. Similarly only few cows. a Little of Rubber trees do exist mainly nearby Siwilai. But Nakhon Phanom is too dry.

Hmmm it has been raining for 2 days now in Don Tan district in Mukdahan according to family there. They are optimistic about an early start to planting.

W

What and spoil Jerry's rhetoric? How cruel of nature to do this to him.

[bangkoklight]

Let's be honest to ourselves. The cause of all this trouble since the year dot isn't the Thai politicians or the Thai military. It's the Thai people themselves who believe magic will solve their problems, bring them luck, and make them rich. In any country, the government is formed by its people for its people. If its people are selfish and only interested in self- or family gain, then the politicians will be no different. They are too the nation's people. Thais have only themselves to blame. To exemplify this, here's a question: How many Thais would move their car aside in a traffic jam or slow down for a passing ambulance?

[Slip]

I think you'll find, when and if a true record of this chapter of Thai history is written, that Abhisit will have spent more of his time fighting "elites" on behalf of the poor, than he will have been fighting the poor on behalf of elites.

[/quote

Yes, well said. If it ever comes to light that is what will be shown I think.

[LuckyFive8888]

Even if it does work, if he is seen too aligned with those who created violence, ie Sae Daeng and the Ronins,

assorted black warriors, renegade army or any of the combinationas.

Then, even as national leader, or deal negotiating puppet master, he would be a international pariah,

and the big business dealers he would want to get into bead with would shun him, as bad juju for their other holdings world wide.

Just as those doing business with Myanmar junta are few and far between, or amorally thick faced.

Some say it's getting like Burma from Abhisit not resigning, but it would REALLY end up like Burma

if Thaksin gained control after leading the creation of a bloodbath, and the necessary control mechanisms

to hold back the peoples hate from him no matter how he tried to hide the tentacles of his culpability.

He imagined he could be the white knight, and yet he hasn't rbnought down his foe,

just drawn his opponents closer together, and weakened the positions of his puppets appreciably.

Agreed, Thaksin has now been exposed nationally and internationally as a leper !

The self-confessed Seh Daeng (Khattiya) with his Ronin warrior's participation at the Black Saturday blood bath and the greedy billionaire and self proclaimed non-elite robin hood of the poor, in return of their votes of course, Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra...

[Jingthing]

Let's be honest to ourselves. The cause of all this trouble since the year dot isn't the Thai politicians or the Thai military. It's the Thai people themselves who believe magic will solve their problems, bring them luck, and make them rich. In any country, the government is formed by its people for its people. If its people are selfish and only interested in self- or family gain, then the politicians will be no different. They are too the nation's people. Thais have only themselves to blame. To exemplify this, here's a question: How many Thais would move their car aside in a traffic jam or slow down for a passing ambulance?

What you say isn't PC of course, but there do appear to be cultural/historical/educational limitations here that retard the potential of an easy transition to real democracy here. I can't say more but I think some people will get the hint.

[humfurry]

Let's be honest to ourselves. The cause of all this trouble since the year dot isn't the Thai politicians or the Thai military. It's the Thai people themselves who believe magic will solve their problems, bring them luck, and make them rich. In any country, the government is formed by its people for its people. If its people are selfish and only interested in self- or family gain, then the politicians will be no different. They are too the nation's people. Thais have only themselves to blame. To exemplify this, here's a question: How many Thais would move their car aside in a traffic jam or slow down for a passing ambulance?

What you say isn't PC of course, but there do appear to be cultural/historical/educational limitations here that retard the potential of an easy transition to real democracy here. I can't say more but I think some people will get the hint.

Did you say retarded?

[paulandmaneerat]

"They don't like it up 'em sir!"