Thai Red-Shirts Leaders Will Surrender To Police May 15: Nattawut

[dude007]

It amazes me at the level of hatred and criticism being directed towards Thaksin on this forum. He seems to be considered guilty of just about every crime known to mankind. The only thing missing (AFAIK), are accusations of pedophilia...

But when he was in power only a few years ago, I cannot recall reading such extreme views about him from Thai Visa posters. No-one was baying for his blood, or demanding his imprisonment

Now why is that? Seems to me that there are too many 'sheep' on this forum willing to accept the statements of an illegal, post-coup government.

Thaksin was no angel. But he was definitely the best PM for Thailand, given the country's circumstances.

Simon

Ha ha ha ha h ha ha ha ha ha ha  ...oops my ass fell off 

You're rigth BNZ, Simon43 (he has my age) hasn't understood anything so far. Don't blame him! He even does not remember the hundreds of postings on this website when Taksin was in power... Forgive him, he must be retired living with a much younger Thai sexy Lady, swallowing VI@gr@ every third day and trying to convince his fellow farangs from his computer that Taksin in fact is a nice guy, who didn't steal anything at all but promised his farmers from the N and NE to be rich within 9 years (this one I did not forget and the farmers also!).

And try to explain this to these poor farmers-red-shirts (who have already returned home since long but the hard core; the criminals, the real outlaws, the terrorist, they stay and will continue because they are paid for it, like the "mercennaires" in the former Zaire, under the leadership of this Taksin paid mercennary Arisman).

Simon43, why don't you take a break and enjoy the rest of your days. Look through your own eyes, not through the eyes of your wife from Phrae... Don't be shy to be and to stay a "farang". Nobody wil blame you but they will try to convince you that the reds are right with their continued senseless and pointless disturbance... The Reds have made their point and that was right and fully understood. This is something that this Government has to tackle more seriously than the former Taksin administration who only aimed at enriching the Shinawatra Corporation assets and leave some breadcrumbs falling from the table for the red shirts.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Lite Beer
Derogotory remarks removed.

[luangtom]

Are we to truly believe the Red Shirts, as we were to believe their errant leader Khun Thaksin, and just hope they will be true to their word? We all know how true the words of Khun Thaksin were. He said he would not become involved in Thai politics, yet he is. He said he would accept the findings of the courts concerning his funds, he did not and some of this current unrest is due to this. Yet, the Red Shirts promised......chok dee, Thailand, chok dee.

[eggomaniac]

Is it a possibility that all sides are wrong, and there is no real Democracy or peace in sight? Seems that both sides want power, but do not have the best intentions for the people of Thailand in their agenda. As long as one is in power the other will fight, no peace. After I wrote this I see it looks a like America.

EGGsactly! It's crocodiles feeding on Thailand. Unless they drain the swamp, the gang warfare will continue for several decades, like the past 80 years.

70% of Thais do NOT side with either the reds OR yellows, so WHY are 90% of farangs

jumping onto one billionaires side over another?

They can nOT win anything by guessing right, but they could sure lose out if their triad does not win.

We should all dislike the movie more than the actors!

It's Thailand that is a MESS, reds and yellows are just the products.

Neither side is RIGHT!

Sondhi / Thaksin; biggest crook? flip a coin!

That would be a good Poll question, but not allowed in the TV anymore.

[seri thai]

UPDATE

Thai protest leaders to surrender, but the rally goes on

The government, which imposed a state of emergency in Bangkok and surrounding areas more than a week ago, has accused Thaksin of stoking the unrest.

A legal aide announced Thaksin is to sue Thailand's Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya after the politician called him a "bloody terrorist".

"Dr Thaksin has assigned a team of lawyers to bring a libel case, both civil and criminal, against Mr. Kasit," Noppadon Pattama told AFP.

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Frickin' hilarious! A coward in hiding and stroking the flames of unrest, while continually claiming the courts are biased and are basically worthless. Yet, he has no problem wanting to use that which he now despises and detests. This "man" is a total nutcase.

As is the one he's suing. It's a funny old world ain't it? Then again what they say for fahrangs and thais are totally different things. The age old bi-cameral defence. As long as the proles can be kept dumbed down they can get away with it at diplomatic briefings and cocktail parties. Universities tend to put their comments on the web tho' Have to be more careful in future.

[animatic]

Is it a possibility that all sides are wrong, and there is no real Democracy or peace in sight? Seems that both sides want power, but do not have the best intentions for the people of Thailand in their agenda. As long as one is in power the other will fight, no peace. After I wrote this I see it looks a like America.

EGGsactly! It's crocodiles feeding on Thailand. Unless they drain the swamp, the gang warfare will continue for several decades, like the past 80 years.

70% of Thais do NOT side with either the reds OR yellows, so WHY are 90% of farangs

jumping onto one billionaires side over another?

They can nOT win anything by guessing right, but they could sure lose out if their triad does not win.

We should all dislike the movie more than the actors!

It's Thailand that is a MESS, reds and yellows are just the products.

Neither side is RIGHT!

Sondhi / Thaksin; biggest crook? flip a coin!

That would be a good Poll question, but not allowed in the TV anymore.

Well I have seen bad things directly related to Thaksin's tenure, and good things directly related to Abhisits.

so it is not a moot point.

[traderjm]

I also get angry when people try to suppress other opinions to theirs. Nobody has a clue apart from you? The fact remains Dude - if we had a FAIR election tomorrow we all know it would be a sweeping landslide for the reds. Call elections now and avoid further bloodshed - if anything happens to red leaders we will have full blown civil war here. Abhisit should do the right thing now.

Sweeping landslide? Are you joking? Do you even know the results of the last election?

They never do, seems like too many of the RED Farangs simply get their Issan wives to translate the RED propaganda to them and then take it at face value... the REDS are a huge minority in ALL of Thailand. Anyone that can't see that simply does not want to.

[basjke]

.... another month to commit crimes against humanity.

Of course taken into credit the past actions of the current government,they might be the ones who step with both feet into this trap.

Do you even know what crimes against humanity are?!?

"...part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a de facto authority.."

By definition it would be pretty difficult for the reds to commit crimes against humanity.

But hey, why let it get in the way of good rhetoric.

Sorry for not being a native english speaker so I used the wrong wong to describe what I mean.What I wanted to say is crimes to other citizens(humans).

[eggomaniac]

Now, what is a "pink shirts "???

a Pink is a thai person who were not red or yellow issued from medium/low to medium.high class witch is pissed off by this mess. BUT a large part of them, we will have to accept it, were yellow.

As they are pink they are not subventioned, almost all of them have a good situation and can take some time to shout their opinion.

Note: this is the first time i use the word opinion! unfortunatly, you can use this word ONLY for the pink and the blue as they are not payed for protest. Then we could think, that the motivation to protest is their opinion!!

What is a White Shirt?

[grayfield18]

There is not a single fact in this diatribe. The comments on the elections that brought Abhisit to power are not even true. Throw around a load of allegations and suggest that maybe because someone was or wasn't in Thailand at the time - which we don't even know for sure and then some other berk comes on and says they are facts. There is not ONE fact in this attack on oldgit.

Maybe rather that stating there are no facts, can you please provide some corrections to the statements?

How did Abhisit come to power if it wasn't by the change of the support of the smaller parties?

I did in an answer to the piece itself if you have a look on the thread.

[Skywalker69]

[

Frickin' hilarious! A coward in hiding and stroking the flames of unrest, while continually claiming the courts are biased and are basically worthless. Yet, he has no problem wanting to use that which he now despises and detests. This "man" is a total nutcase.

Frodo, you offer nothing constructive or substantive. You don't know PM Thaksin yet you call him a "coward" and a "total nutcase". How is that helpful in a constructive dialogue? Who are you? What have you done with your life that redeems you and compels you to disparage PM Thaksin?

I think its more what Thaksin has done Have you seen his recent videos? Nutcase. He tells old men, women and children to come to Bangkok, sleep in the streets and put their lives at risk, all so he can come back and get his money and run a republic, while he and his family live the life of luxury hiding out. Coward.

True Democracy. right?

You got it spot on

[hoilai]

What are the yellows??

As a witness, i could say that a yellow is a thai person issued from medium/high to high class who support a group of old (very old) elites witch are part of famous very high class famillies witch are owning almost all country large buisenesses, for example: they are rulling the rice buisness and also deciding for it's price.

Very influent people who are staying in the background, never appears on any medias but rule the country and it's economy. They do not want to share power or anything else...

they don't want to share anything?

boycott rice eating then, assuming the old elites are rice farmers...

go for the big macs then....

time to give the new elites a break...

[OzMick]

Now, what is a "pink shirts "???

a Pink is a thai person who were not red or yellow issued from medium/low to medium.high class witch is pissed off by this mess. BUT a large part of them, we will have to accept it, were yellow.

As they are pink they are not subventioned, almost all of them have a good situation and can take some time to shout their opinion.

Note: this is the first time i use the word opinion! unfortunatly, you can use this word ONLY for the pink and the blue as they are not payed for protest. Then we could think, that the motivation to protest is their opinion!!

What is a White Shirt?

Someone going to a funeral. You may see a lot of these in the near future! No, I am not advocating mass killing, but I do anticipate it happening. I expect that the army, sent in with softly softly orders to do a bit of crowd control and very neatly ambushed, may now be a tad angry at what resulted. This does not bode well for "peaceful protesters" when the next push comes.

Talk of watermelons is fair enough, but understand that military service builds a camaraderie - and many servicemen have had good friends killed and wounded while just doing their job. If you are prepared to die for the cause....................

[thailien8]

What are the yellows??

Burr,

the Yellows are/were the crowd the Bangkok Bandits wheel out when they lose an election. Unlike the Reds, the army does not shoot them when they occupy an airport, etc.

Most of the farang posters here seem to be right-wing authoritarians who have not a clue about democracy. In a real democracy, ultimate political power is the will of the majority of people, as expressed at the ballot-box. It is not some elevated elite possessing unlimited money, troops, tanks, guns, & English-language newspapers.

I see one of the latter has dubbed the Red-supporting majority of Thailand as 'terrorists'. Nice one for all authoritarian anti-democrats. It's a simple 'law 'n order' situation, so bring on more firepower! Were Adolf Hitler & Joe Stalin alive, they would be cheering behind you.

By all means let the legal attrition against Ole Squarehead continue. Meantime, howsabout a free election, dudes?

I get really angry when I read ignorant comments like this.

Oldgit - you have absolutely no idea, do you? Were you around when Thaksin was in power? Were you paying attention? Thaksin was more of an authoritarian than Abhisit will ever be. Do you honestly think Thailand was ruled democratically when the red hero was in power? Did you completely miss the intimidation of the press and the opposition, the manipulation of the courts, the use of goverment powers for private profit, the extra-judicial killings? Have you ever read Thaksin's words about democracy while he was ruling the roost? Not exactly a hero of democracy back then and hardly one now ... more like a hero of hypocrisy. I am hardly a right wing authoritarian, but I despise the red shirt leaders who are nothing but a bunch of thugs and wouldn't know democracy if they were choking on it. They are in it for themselves - period! The rural poor have legitimate beefs, but it is sad that their cause has fallen prey to the likes of Thaksin and all the other scumbag red leadership.

By the way, dude ... the current parliament consists of people who were elected in the last election in which the red shirt party (Pheua Thai) won more seats than any other party but not a majority, so a democrat-led coalition was formed when the Pheua Thai lost the support of the minority parties. That's how a parliamentary democracy works - look it up! But no! You and the reds would have the PM dissolve a constitutionally elected government just because a bunch of demagogues have convinced a bunch of gullible people to roam around the city blocking roads, defacing public property, launching grenades, and performing barbaric blood rituals. You call that democracy - seriously?

I submit that it is you, oldgit, that don't have a clue about democracy, not those of us who are attempting to call attention to the hypocrisy of the UDD leaders.

I get really interested when I read posts like this. Thanks Charmonman.

Thanks also to all the TV writers who are being champions in trying to help us understand what has been going down, here in Bangkok. The hours I've spent reading the many threads on this forum, since the red menace surged into our formerly peaceful city, have deepened my understanding of my chosen nation.

Special thanks to Khun Animatic, who combines quantity with quality. Please don't change your avatar, as I sometimes scroll quickly down a page, looking for Animatic's triangular eye, at which point I stop scrolling and start reading.

[Trouble]

The continuous bickering over whether the red shirts or the yellow shirts represent the majority is really a joke. Most on this forum seem to have taken sides in the argument. It seems to matter little what is fair. Those who support the yellow shirts are in denial about how Abisit's party came to power and he became prime minister. It was thru a military coup, demonstrations, questionable court rulings removing politicians from the red shirt side, etc. That would in itself be a reason for elections to level the playing field, but those supporting the yellow shirts really don't want elections for fear the outcome does not go their way. Certainly those of you supporting Abisit can't claim there is no corruption in the current governemnt. Calling all the red shirt supporters paid supporters of Taksin and terrorists who have no right to call for elections is not completely fair either. In my view those on this forum supporting the red shirts seem to be supporting elections NOT necessarily Taksin. That is the dilemma for those here supporting the redshirts. I think most would agree that Taksin is history and should not muddy the waters of Thai politics any longer.

So the argument here on this forum seems to be between those who would like to dream of free and fair elections for Thailand and those who dislike Taksin and fear his return and are willing to support the status quo (yellow shirts).

I would assume that most members here would favor elections IF they thought it would bring about stability and acceptance of the outcome, either way, without Taksin in the picture. It is truely unfortunate that fair and honest elections, which is truely in the best interests of the country, are probably not possible at this point in time. If those of you who support the current government do not support free and fair elections because you can't accept an outcome you don't favor, then you are really nothing more that elitists thinking you know what is best for everyone else.

Again, I bring in the views of some Thai university students attending college in the US. Most do not like Taksin or the red shirts, but then they don't support the current government either. One student flat out told me that Thailand is not ready for democracy as we know it in the west. He feels the people in Thailand are not sophisticated enough to make election decisions. He would actually favor a stronger monachy under the current King, if he was younger.

So there you have it, maybe Thailand is not ready for democracy at all.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Trouble

[charmonman]

What are the yellows??

Burr,

the Yellows are/were the crowd the Bangkok Bandits wheel out when they lose an election. Unlike the Reds, the army does not shoot them when they occupy an airport, etc.

Most of the farang posters here seem to be right-wing authoritarians who have not a clue about democracy. In a real democracy, ultimate political power is the will of the majority of people, as expressed at the ballot-box. It is not some elevated elite possessing unlimited money, troops, tanks, guns, & English-language newspapers.

I see one of the latter has dubbed the Red-supporting majority of Thailand as 'terrorists'. Nice one for all authoritarian anti-democrats. It's a simple 'law 'n order' situation, so bring on more firepower! Were Adolf Hitler & Joe Stalin alive, they would be cheering behind you.

By all means let the legal attrition against Ole Squarehead continue. Meantime, howsabout a free election, dudes?

I get really angry when I read ignorant comments like this.

Oldgit - you have absolutely no idea, do you? Were you around when Thaksin was in power? Were you paying attention? Thaksin was more of an authoritarian than Abhisit will ever be. Do you honestly think Thailand was ruled democratically when the red hero was in power? Did you completely miss the intimidation of the press and the opposition, the manipulation of the courts, the use of goverment powers for private profit, the extra-judicial killings? Have you ever read Thaksin's words about democracy while he was ruling the roost? Not exactly a hero of democracy back then and hardly one now ... more like a hero of hypocrisy. I am hardly a right wing authoritarian, but I despise the red shirt leaders who are nothing but a bunch of thugs and wouldn't know democracy if they were choking on it. They are in it for themselves - period! The rural poor have legitimate beefs, but it is sad that their cause has fallen prey to the likes of Thaksin and all the other scumbag red leadership.

By the way, dude ... the current parliament consists of people who were elected in the last election in which the red shirt party (Pheua Thai) won more seats than any other party but not a majority, so a democrat-led coalition was formed when the Pheua Thai lost the support of the minority parties. That's how a parliamentary democracy works - look it up! But no! You and the reds would have the PM dissolve a constitutionally elected government just because a bunch of demagogues have convinced a bunch of gullible people to roam around the city blocking roads, defacing public property, launching grenades, and performing barbaric blood rituals. You call that democracy - seriously?

I submit that it is you, oldgit, that don't have a clue about democracy, not those of us who are attempting to call attention to the hypocrisy of the UDD leaders.

If I remember correctly, there was talk about million dollar payoffs and some military "intervention" involved in this "democratic" coalition that was built. Also rumored that threats against family members might be involved. But of course not of this can be proven....one way or the other. And yes, these blood "rituals" are a sign of democracy...it is called free speach. SO now maybe you will explain to me why after two years, the yellow shirt leaders are still waiting for trial...me thinks that they will be waiting for a long time.

Dumping hazardous materials (blood that has not been screened for HIV or hepatitis) in front of someone's home or throwing it at soldiers is NOT free speech - it is a barbaric and deranged ritual. What was it's purpose? What where they trying to express - the red shirt leaders's disappointment that, at that point the government had not responded to their provocation and actually spilled anyone's blood?

And you're right none of that can be proven, unlike the fairly clear record of red-shirt hero Thaksin, or the miscarriage of justice related to the family of the possible next Pheua Thai PM candidate Chalerm. I don't know why the yellow shirts are still waiting for trial? Why weren't they tried during the premiership of Samak? Why hasn't Thaksin returned to serve his sentence? If he had served his two years he'd be out by now. But I guess a life of luxury outside Thailand is more to his liking.

I think you missed my point - the red shirt leaders are obvious hypocrites, so when I see people ignorant of the history of the last decade and what the country was like under the red hero, it makes me angry. They have absolutely NO interest in democracy or free speech and their words and actions should make that obvious.

[charmonman]

The continuous bickering over whether the red shirts or the yellow shirts represent the majority is really a joke. Most on this forum seem to have taken sides in the argument. It seems to matter little what is fair. Those who support the yellow shirts are in denial about how Abisit's party came to power and he became prime minister. It was thru a military coup, demonstrations, questionable court rulings removing politicians from the red shirt side, etc. That would in itself be a reason for elections to level the playing field, but those supporting the yellow shirts really don't want elections for fear the outcome does not go their way. Certainly those of you supporting Abisit can't claim there is no corruption in the current governemnt. Calling all the red shirt supporters paid supporters of Taksin and terrorists who have no right to call for elections is not completely fair either. In my view those on this forum supporting the red shirts seem to be supporting elections NOT necessarily Taksin. That is the dilemma for those here supporting the redshirts. I think most would agree that Taksin is history and should not muddy the waters of Thai politics any longer.

So the argument here on this forum seems to be between those who would like to dream of free and fair elections for Thailand and those who dislike Taksin and fear his return and are willing to support the status quo (yellow shirts).

I would assume that most members here would favor elections IF they thought it would bring about stability and acceptance of the outcome, either way, without Taksin in the picture. It is truely unfortunate that fair and honest elections, which is truely in the best interests of the country, are probably not possible at this point in time. If those of you who support the current government do not support free and fair elections because you can't accept an outcome you don't favor, then you are really nothing more that elitists thinking you know what is best for everyone else.

Again, I bring in the views of some Thai university students attending college in the US. Most do not like Taksin or the red shirts, but then they don't support the current government either. One student flat out told me that Thailand is not ready for democracy as we know it in the west. He feels the people in Thailand are not sophisticated enough to make election decisions. He would actually favor a stronger monachy under the current King, if he was younger.

So there you have it, maybe Thailand is not ready for democracy at all.

Free and fair elections were held in 2008 (?). As a result, the pro-Thaksin pro-red Pheua Thai party won more seats than any other party but not a majority. They governed under a coalition until the minority parties decided to leave that government and form a coalition with the second largest party the Democrats who formed the current government. One can argue about what was behind the engineering of this coalition but those who imply that the Democrats were appointed by the military seem to be missing an election cycle here. The Democrat leader has offered to dissolve parliament a year before the parliament' term ends, in nine months. Alternatively, the Pheua Thai could convince minority parties to once again join them and defeat the Democrat led government. Instead, the red shirts and thir supporters on this form and elsewhere would seem to prefer a political system wherein governments are perpetually dissolved by a procedure involving large mobs of people wearing certain colours of shirts close down major roads or airports.

Yes, maybe Thailand is not ready for democracy and neither are a large portion of the contributors to this forum!

[Siam Simon]

Someone going to a funeral. You may see a lot of these in the near future! No, I am not advocating mass killing, but I do anticipate it happening. I expect that the army, sent in with softly softly orders to do a bit of crowd control and very neatly ambushed, may now be a tad angry at what resulted. This does not bode well for "peaceful protesters" when the next push comes.

Talk of watermelons is fair enough, but understand that military service builds a camaraderie - and many servicemen have had good friends killed and wounded while just doing their job. If you are prepared to die for the cause....................

Sent in to do a bit of crowd control? eh??? They were sent in to remove the crowd (which, at the time, was peaceful and didn't need controlling). Yes, the loss of loved ones and comrades on both sides was awful and senseless. Who gave the order to disperse a crowd of long-term protesters settling down for a night of relaxation and partying?

[Jockey]

What are the yellows??

Burr,

the Yellows are/were the crowd the Bangkok Bandits wheel out when they lose an election. Unlike the Reds, the army does not shoot them when they occupy an airport, etc.

Most of the farang posters here seem to be right-wing authoritarians who have not a clue about democracy. In a real democracy, ultimate political power is the will of the majority of people, as expressed at the ballot-box. It is not some elevated elite possessing unlimited money, troops, tanks, guns, & English-language newspapers.

I see one of the latter has dubbed the Red-supporting majority of Thailand as 'terrorists'. Nice one for all authoritarian anti-democrats. It's a simple 'law 'n order' situation, so bring on more firepower! Were Adolf Hitler & Joe Stalin alive, they would be cheering behind you.

By all means let the legal attrition against Ole Squarehead continue. Meantime, howsabout a free election, dudes?

Couldn't agree more. If we were back in our home free democratic countries we would be cheering on the protesters who basically want a free democratically elected government and not the military backed current Junta. The blatantly obvious propaganda I witness on state controlled TV is laughable if it were not so serious. The Red Shirts only failing is their misguided support for Thaskin, who did more for poor people than any other Thai Leader but unfortunately he lined his own pockets at the same time.

Good to see there are at least a few contributors on here who talk sense.

News on "the grapevine" suggests Abhist is currently under "house arrest", and it seems to have escaped most peoples notice that the deputy prime minister actually went on TV warning everyone that the PC Hotel where the Red leaders were staying was about to be raided. You may ask, why did the deputy PM expose what we must presume to have have been a secret operation? Was this just plain stupidity or was there another reason he was on national TV warning of the police raids? "The grapevine" suggests that the workers at the hotel might have been undercover "spies" for the ruling elite and they had to be warned about the police raid which involved the use of stun grenades. The deputy has since been relieved of his duties and the Army has now taken over the country. The media have said that Abhist has made this decision when in fact the word is he has had no say in the matter. The army leaders are currently preparing their next move, checking who in their ranks are pro reds and who are prepared to confront their fellow countrymen and are willing to shoot at them to kill. Of course all this is pure speculation and third hand information, but any sensible person will realize there is much more to the news than what is officially presented to us.

What we do know is the reds are protesting for their right to vote and their right to have free democratic elections. A very admirable reason to protest wouldn't you agree? The elite are now trying to label these protesters as "terrorists" (now where have we heard that rhetoric before)? Sadly, judging by some of the ignorant comments by many of the authoritarian loving contributors on here, most of you would support and applaud if the army decide on a shoot to kill policy to break the protests up.

Think about it, all they needed to do was declare a suitable future date for a fair election and this mess could have been avoided They still could do this, but the elite don't want to lose their power. That's why the yellow shirts were able to close down Thailand's only international airport without any confrontation whatsoever and that's why the poor red protesters might continue to be be shot at and killed. I pray there will be no more killing but I fear its too late and decisions have already been made.

[geriatrickid]

It amazes me at the level of hatred and criticism being directed towards Thaksin on this forum. He seems to be considered guilty of just about every crime known to mankind. The only thing missing (AFAIK), are accusations of pedophilia...

But when he was in power only a few years ago, I cannot recall reading such extreme views about him from Thai Visa posters. No-one was baying for his blood, or demanding his imprisonment

Now why is that? Seems to me that there are too many 'sheep' on this forum willing to accept the statements of an illegal, post-coup government.

Thaksin was no angel. But he was definitely the best PM for Thailand, given the country's circumstances.

Simon

Ha ha ha ha h ha ha ha ha ha ha ...oops my ass fell off

You're rigth BNZ, Simon43 (he has my age) hasn't understood anything so far. Don't blame him! He even does not remember the hundreds of postings on this website when Taksin was in power... Forgive him, he must be retired living with a much younger Thai sexy Lady, swallowing VI@gr@ every third day and trying to convince his fellow farangs from his computer that Taksin in fact is a nice guy, who didn't steal anything at all but promised his farmers from the N and NE to be rich within 9 years (this one I did not forget and the farmers also!).

And try to explain this to these poor farmers-red-shirts (who have already returned home since long but the hard core; the criminals, the real outlaws, the terrorist, they stay and will continue because they are paid for it, like the "mercennaires" in the former Zaire, under the leadership of this Taksin paid mercennary Arisman).

Simon43, why don't you take a break and enjoy the rest of your days. Look through your own eyes, not through the eyes of your wife from Phrae... Don't be shy to be and to stay a "farang". Nobody wil blame you but they will try to convince you that the reds are right with their continued senseless and pointless disturbance... The Reds have made their point and that was right and fully understood. This is something that this Government has to tackle more seriously than the former Taksin administration who only aimed at enriching the Shinawatra Corporation assets and leave some breadcrumbs falling from the table for the red shirts.

Lovely post, but one that clearly demonstrates that many of the people angry at the Reds and pretending to be in favour of law and order, are devoid of an semblance of manners or decency. In the typical fashion of their collective, rather than respond to an issue they make snide personal comments and graphic references to issues that are not even relevant. What does Viagra have to do with this topic?

It seems to me that some people in TVF need to be on anti psychotics or to adjust their current dosage. I am willing to wager that some people most in a tizzy over the Reds probably have a history of anti social behaviour, or a criminal record for a creepy crime, or have failed in their lives. It is displaced aggression. Rather than accept they have issues, they transfer their fears and hatreds to the Reds.

Simon is not a personal friend of mine, but what I do know is that he has improved his education, and continues to do so. He has also contributed significantly to his local community. I have disagreed with him on some issues, but it wouldn't cross my mind to try and demonize him as you have done. What pray tell have you done while you have been here? What contribution to improving Thailand have you made? And yet here you are denigrating a person that has shown nothing but compassion, decency and a helping hand to others over the years. Are you jealous of him? Are you that afraid of his education and your own shortcomings? What would possess someone to be so petty and downright nasty?

All of a sudden you puke out a statement that acknowledges what the Reds were trying to accomplish;Reds have made their point and that was right and fully understood. Well golly gee, why were you and the rest of the collective demeaning the Reds and saying they had no point to make, before this? Now that the tide turned, you have changed tack. Has it dawned on you that the Reds had to turn to these measures because they have been disenfranchised?

I can see why you are afraid of the Reds. A strong Thai that will stand up to bullying evokes fear. Well then, get ready, because there's a change coming to Thailand and a lot of foreigners are not going to be happy.

[OldgitTom]

charmonman, you might be less angry if you read what I wrote. I know about Mr T. I was here when he dunnit, & was appalled by his murderous blunderings. I simply noted that legal action against him was no bar to an election. His party should be free to participate, unless you believe in guilt by association?

Your diatribe against the Redshirts might be justified for all I know. I wasn’t there. But neither do I take much notice of the local press, which is bought & paid for by vested interests, just like everywhere else in the ‘free’ world.

I’ve met both Yellow & Redshirt supporters & find them as likeable as most Thais. I resent your side attempting to paint the Reds as ‘terrorists’, even if their rooting for Ole Squarehead baffles me. I hope what they really want is democracy, not him back.

Your support for the present government also baffles me. It cannot be considered legitimate in any true democratic sense. It got in after an armed coup & the subsequent quasi-legalistic jiggery-pokery. If you are so sure it has majority support, put your money where your mouth is & go for a free election – at least verbally - becos we farangs are mere observers.

There is little reason for the farang audience to get overexcited. Let there be peace & a free election. We might not like the result Charmonman, but the will of the majority must prevail. Vox populi, vox dei. If there is any doubt, get the ballot boxes out, not guns. OGT

[Burr]

Hey, I love you guys BUT, this tread is 7 long pages and has turned into name calling and repeating your post.

Every body have a great day.

[chainarong]

I don't think the people of Bangkok are prepared to give them another month, never mind the army.

Why not the 24th, my birthday.

[OzMick]

Someone going to a funeral. You may see a lot of these in the near future! No, I am not advocating mass killing, but I do anticipate it happening. I expect that the army, sent in with softly softly orders to do a bit of crowd control and very neatly ambushed, may now be a tad angry at what resulted. This does not bode well for "peaceful protesters" when the next push comes.

Talk of watermelons is fair enough, but understand that military service builds a camaraderie - and many servicemen have had good friends killed and wounded while just doing their job. If you are prepared to die for the cause....................

Sent in to do a bit of crowd control? eh??? They were sent in to remove the crowd (which, at the time, was peaceful and didn't need controlling). Yes, the loss of loved ones and comrades on both sides was awful and senseless. Who gave the order to disperse a crowd of long-term protesters settling down for a night of relaxation and partying?

The young lads in green shirts don't know or care who gave the orders. Ours is not to reason why........ Helmets, batons and shields is crowd control kit (and yes, a rifleman or 2 in case it turns ugly), because someone higher up swallowed your peaceful crowd BS hook line and sinker.

Does your night of relaxation and partying include military assault rifles, M-79 grenade launchers and an assassination team to identify and kill the soldier's commander? This had been planned for months in advance, waiting for the order to clear the "peaceful protesters", so that a bloodbath could be triggered. And one of the necessary results was a preponderance of injuries to the "peaceful protesters", and that was ensured also.

What I am expecting from past experience is that in the next push an armed response will be expected. If a M-79 is fired from in the crowd (the noise is quite loud and very distinctive) the response will hard and the collateral damage high. Waving a laser pointer around would reduce your life expectancy to near-zero.

I can hear the faint-hearts squealing "murderers" already. Soldiers have mothers, wives and families, that they want to go home to, intact and whole, and they will rightfully refuse to be living targets. They would be in their rights to refuse an order to fire into a crowd, but when lethal assault is launched from the crowd, that reluctance will disappear. That's how it is.

[terryfix]

Democracy is created at the ballot box (on the assumption it is a fair election), not by anarchy on the streets. While the current government may be criticised and corrupt, I support their stand. I also support democracy, but not this continuous red shirt campaign. There are laws, follow them, not break them.

[brahmburgers]

If you believe anything the Red Shirt leaders promise, then perhaps you'll believe I wrote all the songs on the Meet The Beatles album.

If the Red leaders have warrants, then arrest them, plain & simple. Don't let them dictate the terms. If two cops walking in to a Red crowd are cowed to retreat, then figure that's not working, and come back with a platoon of well trained disciplined gov't security forces to do the job. If anyone points a gun at you, shoot 'em.

Thais supporting the government shouldn't be so afraid of bloodshed. It would be as though someone were breaking in to your house and threatening your family. Would you be so fixated about avoiding bloodshed as to avoid doing any harm to the intruders? Doubtful. There are times when harmful force needs to be used.

[bubba]

So it looks like the red shirts have changed their mind. Of course they blame it on the controlled media in Thailand and disinformation, although Nattawut told the French AFP news service:

"On May 15, 24 of us will surrender. All of the leaders," protest leader Nattawut Saikuar told AFP. "We'll surrender and ask for bail," he added.

That would be the same AFP that the red shirts always reference for the video that allegedly shows soldiers firing directly into protestors, right?

From a red shirt website:

http://redphanfa2day.wordpress.com/2010/04...w-no-surrender/

Red shirt leaders vow no surrender

RATCHAPRASONG, APRIL 17, 2010. United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) leaders heading the pro-democracy rally in Bangkok have today publicly slammed local and international media reports claiming it was their intention to surrender to police on May 15.

Core UDD leader Dr. Weng Tochirakarn said UDD leaders had never said they would surrender to police and all members of the leadership team were committed to continuing their peaceful protest until they had achieved their aims of having the Thai parliament dissolved and fresh elections called.

“The government and some media owners have applied constant pressure on local journalists to write and broadcast inaccurate details about our protest. Today, in Thailand, the basic precepts of democracy such as a free and unhindered media and the rights to honest and unbiased reporting are controlled by the government in a verity of means.

“In many instances it is not the fault of the individual journalists, but rather pressure brought to bear on them from the elite sections of Thai society, who are opposed to seeing the power and wealth of the country distributed more fairly.

[bubba]

So it looks like the red shirts have changed their mind. Of course they blame it on the controlled media in Thailand and disinformation, although Nattawut told the French AFP news service:

"On May 15, 24 of us will surrender. All of the leaders," protest leader Nattawut Saikuar told AFP. "We'll surrender and ask for bail," he added.

That would be the same AFP that the red shirts always reference for the video that allegedly shows soldiers firing directly into protestors, right?

From a red shirt website:

http://redphanfa2day.wordpress.com/2010/04...w-no-surrender/

Red shirt leaders vow no surrender

RATCHAPRASONG, APRIL 17, 2010. United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) leaders heading the pro-democracy rally in Bangkok have today publicly slammed local and international media reports claiming it was their intention to surrender to police on May 15.

Core UDD leader Dr. Weng Tochirakarn said UDD leaders had never said they would surrender to police and all members of the leadership team were committed to continuing their peaceful protest until they had achieved their aims of having the Thai parliament dissolved and fresh elections called.

“The government and some media owners have applied constant pressure on local journalists to write and broadcast inaccurate details about our protest. Today, in Thailand, the basic precepts of democracy such as a free and unhindered media and the rights to honest and unbiased reporting are controlled by the government in a verity of means.

“In many instances it is not the fault of the individual journalists, but rather pressure brought to bear on them from the elite sections of Thai society, who are opposed to seeing the power and wealth of the country distributed more fairly.

Just to follow up, is this also false?

BANGKOK, April 17 (TNA) - A lawyer representing all 24 anti-government protest leaders with outstanding arrest warrants told a senior police officer here Saturday that his clients would surrender to police on May 15 as they need time to collect money to post as bail.

Lawyer Karom Poltaklang submitted a letter to Pol Maj-Gen Amnuay Nimmano, deputy Bangkok police chief, saying that the 24 United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) leaders would turn themselves in to the police at 10am on May 15. The letter said the UDD leaders would not run away and they needed time to collect money to post as bail.

The letter said the reason that the 24 UDD leaders specified the exact date for the surrendering was to “prevent a chaos” and for the safety and benefits of all concerned parties. It also said the accused will deny police charges.

http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/45569.cfm

As with the story alleging that the multi-shirt photos posted on The Nation, exactly whom is trying to manipulate the media here?

[Merangue]

charmonman, you might be less angry if you read what I wrote. I know about Mr T. I was here when he dunnit, & was appalled by his murderous blunderings. I simply noted that legal action against him was no bar to an election. His party should be free to participate, unless you believe in guilt by association?

Your diatribe against the Redshirts might be justified for all I know. I wasn't there. But neither do I take much notice of the local press, which is bought & paid for by vested interests, just like everywhere else in the 'free' world.

I've met both Yellow & Redshirt supporters & find them as likeable as most Thais. I resent your side attempting to paint the Reds as 'terrorists', even if their rooting for Ole Squarehead baffles me. I hope what they really want is democracy, not him back.

Your support for the present government also baffles me. It cannot be considered legitimate in any true democratic sense. It got in after an armed coup & the subsequent quasi-legalistic jiggery-pokery. If you are so sure it has majority support, put your money where your mouth is & go for a free election – at least verbally - becos we farangs are mere observers.

There is little reason for the farang audience to get overexcited. Let there be peace & a free election. We might not like the result Charmonman, but the will of the majority must prevail. Vox populi, vox dei. If there is any doubt, get the ballot boxes out, not guns. OGT

A lot of good reasoning in this post. It is nice to see someone actually using his brain on here.

[animatic]

Looks like the lawyer forgot to consult Dr Weng before using his stall tactic.

One hand has no clue who the other is stroking.

Of course the general argument has been turned around to say the gov is saying 'all red shirts are terrorists',

while all I have ever seen 'officially said' was that 'there were 'Terrorists within the red ranks'

firing at the riot squad.' In other words their were infiltrated by vicious ringers,

and the search for those actual terrorists is ongoing.

But it suits some red agendas to paint the gov as absolutists, and equally demagogic... as red leaders,

and so they turn the phrases to mean ALL reds must be considered terrorists.

How can you fight 'an enemy' that doesn't say you are their enemy?

How can you fight 'an enemy' that says others have used you badly for their own ends.

How can you fight 'an enemy' that says your own leaders used you as cannon fodder/puppets.

How do you fight 'an enemy' that only says they are trying to free up public spaces for others.

Ah yes, turn it around and say they are all liars and murderers and that they think all reds are terrorists.

Can't keep your street army at fever pitch if you can't demonize the opposition as nasty and 'out to get you'.

If the army REALLY wanted red leaders dead today,

2-5 snipers on rooftops could have taken out 2 each on stage

and be done with, headless snake easy to dispose of.

Or if they really were that duplicitous,

they could have just grabbed Weng, Veera and Jatuporn after Abhisit meeting 2.

But they honored that truce flag and offered more negotiations.

Then they could have captured Arisman weeks ago, and beaten down any who tried to help him.

And if they didn't care, just weathered the fall out from the violence.

But this has not happened, and is not likely to in such a violent way.

But the Red leaders have to keep saying this is the aim, or the red foot soldiers loose the plot

Such as Arisman. "They were trying to kill me!!!" Even as he forgot his own hand grenade at the room.

Can't violently fight people you can't hate 100%.

Edited April 18, 2010 by animatic

[Burr]

Question,

What do you all think of this??

BANGKOK: -- Despite claims to the contrary in CNN's Ireport section, we would like to reaffirm to all our readers and interested parties that all photos published in The Nation newspaper and The Nation's website - www.nationmultimedia.com www.nationmultimedia.com - as well as all other media outlets of Nation Multimedia Group, are genuine.