The Price Of Life In Thailand

[alwayshavetimeforstupidity]

Does anyone else find the following figures interesting but not surprising?

Songkran Festivals 4 days - 212 fatalities

Red Shirt Protest for democracy - 25 fatalities

Last years figures for the Songkran seven days were....

"Songkran's "seven dangerous days" ended yesterday with 373 deaths and 4,332 injuries in 3,977 road accidents nationwide."

"A total of 5,271,977 drivers and motorcycle-riders were examined at checkpoints nationwide. Of those, 408,020 were cited for violating the law, including 137,806 for driving without a licence and 136,772 for not wearing a helmet."

Sonkran festivals are a great time for the police, a nice easy way to make money and quick bonuses. We all know this but how many stand up to it?

Let's say on average that last year the police made 150baht on each driver that was driving without a helmet or licence so.....

150baht x 408,020 = TOTAL BRIBES OF 61,203,000Baht

61,203,000 / 373 deaths = PRICE OF LIFE 164,083 (3150British Pounds)

Obviously not a problem fixed overnight but...maybe if the red shirts get what they want and get into power, the simple measure of driving lessons, actual tests and a simple law that every motorbike rider and anyone else on the bike wears a helmet + a drink/drug driving law actually imposed. All with strict, imposed penalties (revoked licence, jail time or driving ban, or documented fine) instead of a simple 100-200baht POLICE BRIBE taken.

25 people died for a decent enough reason, 212 died for no reason but in my opinion a figure easily reduced if it wasn't for corruption. The route cause. One thing much worse than a corrupt government proven guilty is a corrupt government, military, country free do do what it wants.

BELOW IS A PICTURE OF ME IN AMONGST THE RED SHIRTS, WATCHING SOME SPEECHES LAST SUNDAY!

[BLUEEYEDTHAI]

Laws actually enforced,yeah like thats going to happen Dream on Alice.

[alwayshavetimeforstupidity]

Laws actually enforced,yeah like thats going to happen Dream on Alice.

Precisely my point....it is a laughable subject. Unfortunately one that costs many lives, but have Thailand completely given up on becoming a safe place with no corruption or will things just get worse and worse for them? Almost every ex-pat I speak to whose been here for 10 years plus say that Thailand has gone hugely down hill

Do all the ex-pats here just live here, knowing that one day the corruption and violence will become so bad that they'll have to leave?

[4223rhodes]

Laws actually enforced,yeah like thats going to happen Dream on Alice.

Precisely my point....it is a laughable subject. Unfortunately one that costs many lives, but have Thailand completely given up on becoming a safe place with no corruption or will things just get worse and worse for them? Almost every ex-pat I speak to whose been here for 10 years plus say that Thailand has gone hugely down hill

Do all the ex-pats here just live here, knowing that one day the corruption and violence will become so bad that they'll have to leave?

And go where? Corruption and violence transcend history and geography. Show me intelligent life in another region of the universe and i'll show you greed and corruption.

[walkingman]

Laws actually enforced,yeah like thats going to happen Dream on Alice.

Precisely my point....it is a laughable subject. Unfortunately one that costs many lives, but have Thailand completely given up on becoming a safe place with no corruption or will things just get worse and worse for them? Almost every ex-pat I speak to whose been here for 10 years plus say that Thailand has gone hugely down hill

Do all the ex-pats here just live here, knowing that one day the corruption and violence will become so bad that they'll have to leave?

I think most expats no in the back of there mind that one day all this violence will become to much. Thailand has gone way way down hill in the last 5 years or so.

Thai people in general are the most racist people i have ever met. I am saying that as a white man who lived in Zimbabwe for 8 years !! That says it all really.

[robblok]

People are always saying that things get worse and go down hill.. its human nature. Ask people in Holland, England wherever. They will say its getting worse.

[alwayshavetimeforstupidity]

Laws actually enforced,yeah like thats going to happen Dream on Alice.

Precisely my point....it is a laughable subject. Unfortunately one that costs many lives, but have Thailand completely given up on becoming a safe place with no corruption or will things just get worse and worse for them? Almost every ex-pat I speak to whose been here for 10 years plus say that Thailand has gone hugely down hill

Do all the ex-pats here just live here, knowing that one day the corruption and violence will become so bad that they'll have to leave?

I think most expats no in the back of there mind that one day all this violence will become to much. Thailand has gone way way down hill in the last 5 years or so.

Thai people in general are the most racist people i have ever met. I am saying that as a white man who lived in Zimbabwe for 8 years !! That says it all really.

I completely agree, but I can't figure out whether their racism is down to the image that the foreigners coming over to Thailand in the last 50 years have created, whether its because they're scared of anything new or change, or if its just a completely lack of intelligence.

All three maybe?

[alwayshavetimeforstupidity]

People are always saying that things get worse and go down hill.. its human nature. Ask people in Holland, England wherever. They will say its getting worse.

So that's it then....stop fighting it because it's human nature?

[alwayshavetimeforstupidity]

Laws actually enforced,yeah like thats going to happen Dream on Alice.

Precisely my point....it is a laughable subject. Unfortunately one that costs many lives, but have Thailand completely given up on becoming a safe place with no corruption or will things just get worse and worse for them? Almost every ex-pat I speak to whose been here for 10 years plus say that Thailand has gone hugely down hill

Do all the ex-pats here just live here, knowing that one day the corruption and violence will become so bad that they'll have to leave?

And go where? Corruption and violence transcend history and geography. Show me intelligent life in another region of the universe and i'll show you greed and corruption.

But based on my original post regarding road traffic police and laws in Thailand. Its one of the most obvious places of direct, in your face corruption. Everyone knows about it, yet we all (especially foreigners) go along with it. You can pay 2euros whenever pulled up and you don't need to wear a helmet, for an extra 2 euros you dont even need a licence. Its killing 28000 per year in Thailand compared to 3000 people in Holland (a similar size population), buts its a moneymaker for them so its left alone, and we don't fight it.

[geriatrickid]

I do not know the "price of life" but I have an idea of the value of the leftovers.

Although it is illegal and unethical to trade in body parts, the cadaver trade is lucrative throughout the world including Thailand. At western unis there are price lists for body parts because you have to budget for these things. A good specimen can go for US$50-$100K. Basic inventory like an arm or leg can fetch US$10-$20k. Now of course you are not paying for the body parts, you are paying for shipping & handling and prep work.

Thailand has come up with a great way to get around the shortage of cadavers and to overcome the religious/cultural obstacles to the donations. You make merit when you donate the body. It's not just any merit, but you get to be called a "teacher" Sometimes the word great or prestigious is used as well. I believe the locals use the term Ajarn Yai.

Now for all of you mediocre teachers that despair at your failure and inability to impart knowledge, here is the way to become the very best teacher you can be and to earn merit in the process. You also benefit from a lovely ceremony where your name is called out and you are praised and recognized for your contribution. It might be the very first time it happens with your body, since some of you have not accomplished much in life. However, here's your chance to be a star, in death. Basically there is a dedication ceremony,where all the bigwigs at the uni, the students, the deceased's next of kin, various officials and of course lots of monks show up to pray for you, the deceased. There are lots of beautiful flowers, free eats and sometimes some nice baubles handed out. (I got plastic beads one ceremony. I regifted them to a secretary back home. She had no idea what it was about, but I figured she'd appreciate it with her goth hairdo and weird cheek piercing.)

Once the students are finished slicing and dicing, your body gets put into a nice box and then off you go for a ritual cremation.

It's not just any cremation, but one that is done with respect. The same people that came to thank you and bestow upon you the title of teacher are there to give you a dignified send off. It's an even bigger ceremony complete with a procession and a celebration of your life. Sometimes your portrait is displayed. This is a great opportunity for many farangs of limited means that do not even have a pot to piss in. Where else can you get a lavish and dignified cremation for free? Where people will actually thank you for thinking of others? You become more valued and more important in death than you were in life. For some of Thai Visa's members, this truly is a step in the right direction.

For those that are squeamish about the thought of some Thai sticking his hands in your dead body, rest assured, that the student is just as uncomfortable. The difference though, is that the student will show a considerable degree of respect and appreciation. There are no off colour jokes and no pranks. Even though such antics are an offense in the west where the penalty can be a serious reprimand & suspension or in the case of a serious offense, expulsion, such acts of poor judgement do not occur in Thailand. Students, despite all the horror stories we hear, really do take great care and are respectful. Inappropriate behaviour is a taboo. The deceased is probably better treated in death than it was in life.

Many of you Thai Visa members that worry about your personal value, need to stop worrying. You are indeed worth something. It's just that the value is realized once you are dead and you have donated your body.

[hawthorne]

I think most expats no in the back of there mind that one day all this violence will become to much. Thailand has gone way way down hill in the last 5 years or so.

Thai people in general are the most racist people i have ever met. I am saying that as a white man who lived in Zimbabwe for 8 years !! That says it all really.

You must have never had your farm taken from you like so many other white nationals in Zimbabwe. Way off base here. No comparisons. how much time you spend in a Caspir, Mumba or Puma? If you lived there and saw racism ...

[IanForbes]

People are always saying that things get worse and go down hill.. its human nature. Ask people in Holland, England wherever. They will say its getting worse.

It's certainly getting worse in Canada. Yesterday it was sunny and today it is raining. Does Chiang Mai want any?

At least I can sleep all night long without waking up in a sweat, or to mosquitos buzzing in my ear

[Ijustwannateach]

Great post, GK, very touching, thanks for that.

[sokal]

Laws actually enforced,yeah like thats going to happen Dream on Alice.

Precisely my point....it is a laughable subject. Unfortunately one that costs many lives, but have Thailand completely given up on becoming a safe place with no corruption or will things just get worse and worse for them? Almost every ex-pat I speak to whose been here for 10 years plus say that Thailand has gone hugely down hill

Do all the ex-pats here just live here, knowing that one day the corruption and violence will become so bad that they'll have to leave?

Down hill in your books, uphill in mine. Why do you have the right to dictate how much risk I am aloud to take ?

[sokal]

Laws actually enforced,yeah like thats going to happen Dream on Alice.

Precisely my point....it is a laughable subject. Unfortunately one that costs many lives, but have Thailand completely given up on becoming a safe place with no corruption or will things just get worse and worse for them? Almost every ex-pat I speak to whose been here for 10 years plus say that Thailand has gone hugely down hill

Do all the ex-pats here just live here, knowing that one day the corruption and violence will become so bad that they'll have to leave?

I think most expats no in the back of there mind that one day all this violence will become to much. Thailand has gone way way down hill in the last 5 years or so.

Thai people in general are the most racist people i have ever met. I am saying that as a white man who lived in Zimbabwe for 8 years !! That says it all really.

I completely agree, but I can't figure out whether their racism is down to the image that the foreigners coming over to Thailand in the last 50 years have created, whether its because they're scared of anything new or change, or if its just a completely lack of intelligence.

All three maybe?

look at some of the farangs in Thailand, do you blame them ?

[Naam]

Laws actually enforced,yeah like thats going to happen Dream on Alice.

Precisely my point....it is a laughable subject. Unfortunately one that costs many lives, but have Thailand completely given up on becoming a safe place with no corruption or will things just get worse and worse for them? Almost every ex-pat I speak to whose been here for 10 years plus say that Thailand has gone hugely down hill

Do all the ex-pats here just live here, knowing that one day the corruption and violence will become so bad that they'll have to leave?

yaaawwwwnnnn... another disgruntled expat who blames the fact he is a failure on the shortcomings of his host country and tries to lecture those who live in Thailand since years a content life

[elkangorito]

I do not know the "price of life" but I have an idea of the value of the leftovers.

Although it is illegal and unethical to trade in body parts, the cadaver trade is lucrative throughout the world including Thailand. At western unis there are price lists for body parts because you have to budget for these things. A good specimen can go for US$50-$100K. Basic inventory like an arm or leg can fetch US$10-$20k. Now of course you are not paying for the body parts, you are paying for shipping & handling and prep work.

Thailand has come up with a great way to get around the shortage of cadavers and to overcome the religious/cultural obstacles to the donations. You make merit when you donate the body. It's not just any merit, but you get to be called a "teacher" Sometimes the word great or prestigious is used as well. I believe the locals use the term Ajarn Yai.

Now for all of you mediocre teachers that despair at your failure and inability to impart knowledge, here is the way to become the very best teacher you can be and to earn merit in the process. You also benefit from a lovely ceremony where your name is called out and you are praised and recognized for your contribution. It might be the very first time it happens with your body, since some of you have not accomplished much in life. However, here's your chance to be a star, in death. Basically there is a dedication ceremony,where all the bigwigs at the uni, the students, the deceased's next of kin, various officials and of course lots of monks show up to pray for you, the deceased. There are lots of beautiful flowers, free eats and sometimes some nice baubles handed out. (I got plastic beads one ceremony. I regifted them to a secretary back home. She had no idea what it was about, but I figured she'd appreciate it with her goth hairdo and weird cheek piercing.)

Once the students are finished slicing and dicing, your body gets put into a nice box and then off you go for a ritual cremation.

It's not just any cremation, but one that is done with respect. The same people that came to thank you and bestow upon you the title of teacher are there to give you a dignified send off. It's an even bigger ceremony complete with a procession and a celebration of your life. Sometimes your portrait is displayed. This is a great opportunity for many farangs of limited means that do not even have a pot to piss in. Where else can you get a lavish and dignified cremation for free? Where people will actually thank you for thinking of others? You become more valued and more important in death than you were in life. For some of Thai Visa's members, this truly is a step in the right direction.

For those that are squeamish about the thought of some Thai sticking his hands in your dead body, rest assured, that the student is just as uncomfortable. The difference though, is that the student will show a considerable degree of respect and appreciation. There are no off colour jokes and no pranks. Even though such antics are an offense in the west where the penalty can be a serious reprimand & suspension or in the case of a serious offense, expulsion, such acts of poor judgement do not occur in Thailand. Students, despite all the horror stories we hear, really do take great care and are respectful. Inappropriate behaviour is a taboo. The deceased is probably better treated in death than it was in life.

Many of you Thai Visa members that worry about your personal value, need to stop worrying. You are indeed worth something. It's just that the value is realized once you are dead and you have donated your body.

Geez! My grandad, an Australian who died about 10 years ago in Australia, 'willed' (legally) his body to science. The university & other such establishments refused to take his body because they said that they already had an oversupply of cadavers. Maybe they would've been more receptive to 'younger' cadavers?

[walkingman]

I think most expats no in the back of there mind that one day all this violence will become to much. Thailand has gone way way down hill in the last 5 years or so.

Thai people in general are the most racist people i have ever met. I am saying that as a white man who lived in Zimbabwe for 8 years !! That says it all really.

You must have never had your farm taken from you like so many other white nationals in Zimbabwe. Way off base here. No comparisons. how much time you spend in a Caspir, Mumba or Puma? If you lived there and saw racism ...

Listen bru, it sounds like you have never been to Zimbabwe. For a start, not every white man in zimbabwe has a farm. I never did. I am not way off base at all. I did see racism in Zimbabwe alot of it at goverment level. But i would say only about 10 % of black Zimbabwe has a problem with the whites in Zimbabwe. When you are living there day to day there is not that much Racism on a local face to face level. But in Thailand they are just racist to your face. Yes i understand that the average Thai is no where near as well educated as the average person from Zimbabwe but i still dont no why the Thai's hate farangs so much.

[alwayshavetimeforstupidity]

I completely agree, but I can't figure out whether their racism is down to the image that the foreigners coming over to Thailand in the last 50 years have created, whether its because they're scared of anything new or change, or if its just a completely lack of intelligence.

All three maybe?

look at some of the farangs in Thailand, do you blame them ?

Not at all. It's part of my point..

I've seen a few blogs and articles about foreigners attacked for "no reason". Ofcourse many on Thaivisa are pro-Thailand and therefore the usual instant thoughts are "there MUST be more to it".

If the Chinese (for example) had been coming to my home country for 50 years and taking "our" women then I'm sure there would be many more "random" attacks.

When I drive down Patpong beach (when I have friends over that want to stay there), I also feel like committing some attacks on the foreigners..!

[Loz]

THe fact that you can put a price on life in Thailand speaks volumes. For those unclear. You kill someone with your car, you have the opportunity to reach a financially settlement out of court with the deceased family. No jail time, just cash. That this is ex-officio part of the judicial system speaks volumes.

But at the end of the day, we are all still here.

[alwayshavetimeforstupidity]

yaaawwwwnnnn... another disgruntled expat who blames the fact he is a failure on the shortcomings of his host country and tries to lecture those who live in Thailand since years a content life

Not lecturing, just raising a simple point. Or do I need to have lived in Thailand 400 years and posted nearly 12,000 comments on Thai Visa to be allowed a say on any matter??

Very assumptive on your behalf though. Did you press the automatic reply button, like you do to any negative comment made about Thailand? Maybe you don't want the value of your business, property/land to fall??? Why improve it if its not broken hey? Progressive thinking.

If I spent my life posting comments on forums that would be a failure sunshine.

[hoilai]

Laws actually enforced,yeah like thats going to happen Dream on Alice.

Precisely my point....it is a laughable subject. Unfortunately one that costs many lives, but have Thailand completely given up on becoming a safe place with no corruption or will things just get worse and worse for them? Almost every ex-pat I speak to whose been here for 10 years plus say that Thailand has gone hugely down hill

Do all the ex-pats here just live here, knowing that one day the corruption and violence will become so bad that they'll have to leave?

...provided the farangs are still alive and can make that run....

remember, the yellow shirts are still out there and are not penalised yet for more than a year and they may shut down the airport again like they did the last time with absolute impunity......

remember, thailand has two sets of laws, one for the rich and none for the poor.......

[hoilai]

Laws actually enforced,yeah like thats going to happen Dream on Alice.

Precisely my point....it is a laughable subject. Unfortunately one that costs many lives, but have Thailand completely given up on becoming a safe place with no corruption or will things just get worse and worse for them? Almost every ex-pat I speak to whose been here for 10 years plus say that Thailand has gone hugely down hill

Do all the ex-pats here just live here, knowing that one day the corruption and violence will become so bad that they'll have to leave?

I think most expats no in the back of there mind that one day all this violence will become to much. Thailand has gone way way down hill in the last 5 years or so.

Thai people in general are the most racist people i have ever met. I am saying that as a white man who lived in Zimbabwe for 8 years !! That says it all really.

or are you choosing to be ostracised yourself for coming by thailand?????

if you stick to here youbelong, will there be any racism against you?

remember, it is you who chose to be in thailand.....

[PhilHarries]

remember, thailand has two sets of laws, one for the rich and none for the poor.......

Please take a little time to explain how that is different to any other place in the world.

More blatant, more rampant maybe, but still the same shit.

[NBD]

Am I the only one who actually likes Thailand's lax approach to health and safety, and somewhat liberal traffic enforcement? I can go back to Europe for as much safety as I need. If I want to ride around with no helmet, take a short cut down a one way street or get 3 mates on a motorbike then Thailand is the place to do it. I know it's more dangerous, but it's more fun as well and I'd rather make that decision myself than have the state make it for me.

Don't also forget that a helmet is a lot of money to some people in rural Thailand. At the school I was teaching at, quite often 3 students would come in on one bike, without helmets. If they had to go out and buy 3 helmets at 450B each, that might be a week's wages to a rural farming family who are already extending themselves to send their kids to school. If the upshort of enforcing the laws more rigorously was lower school attendence (and all the other things that people couldn't/wouldn't do) then it could be a net welfare loss.

[gpdjohn]

People are always saying that things get worse and go down hill.. its human nature. Ask people in Holland, England wherever. They will say its getting worse.

No kidding! Last time in Venlo they were redoing the Maas river front and had moved the pot store.. it took me over an hour to find it. ( Thank god they printed a map on the front page of the local paper so I and all the Germans knew where it was... )

I hate change.

[Koh_Falang]

So are you saying you assume Reds will fix this if they got into power? Thats quite a claim... ive heard nothing of this plan (or any others for that matter other then a new election)

[Berkshire]

but i still dont no why the Thai's hate farangs so much.

Wow, this is news to me. If you truly believe that, I'd recommend you board the next plane and get out of Dodge, pronto. Otherwise, it's just going to be pure torture for you here. I wouldn't want to live in a place where everyone hates me.

[Chonburiram]

But based on my original post regarding road traffic police and laws in Thailand. Its one of the most obvious places of direct, in your face corruption. Everyone knows about it, yet we all (especially foreigners) go along with it. You can pay 2euros whenever pulled up and you don't need to wear a helmet, for an extra 2 euros you dont even need a licence. Its killing 28000 per year in Thailand compared to 3000 people in Holland (a similar size population), buts its a moneymaker for them so its left alone, and we don't fight it.