Red-Shirts To Intensify Pressure

[pornsasi]

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Maybe he does,and I think this is why. I think he fears there will be a never ending cycle of conflict in Thailand if extra constitutional measures continue to be used for what is rightly the government's responsibility to take care of. I'm sure he believes, as do I, that it is the government's job to deal with insurgents using the personnel and institutions at its disposal. His job is complicated no doubt by the mercy he shows for women and children and old folks and other &quot;non combatants&quot;, and also by a weak and disloyal police force. He is not the first PM to encounter ineffectiveness in this organization, but one can only hope he will be the last.

<br /><br />What could a &quot;mediator&quot; say to a soveriegn government? Yes you are legal. Yes you are legitimate. Yes the reds are not conducting either a peaceful or a legal protest. Yes, you have offered to call elections a year early. Yes you have been patient and shown restraint in dealing with an illegal and violent group of insurgents, terrorists, and traitors.<br /><br />What could the &quot;mediator&quot; say to the reds? Yes Thaksin's extra-constitutional government was removed by a military coup that was greeted with at the very least acquiescence by the entire nation. Yes, Thaksin's party was disbanded for electoral fraud. Yes, Thaksin's proxy party was caught on video and was also disbanded. Yes, both of those things hurt but were according to the law of the land. No, it does not appear that your protest has ANYTHING to do with Democracy, because if it did you would have accepted the government's offer to hold elections 1 year early! If you were about Democracy you would be protesting legally. If it were about Democracy you would not have armed terrorists in your encampment. If it were about Democracy your leaders would not call for violence by the red shirts. etc etc etc etc ...<br /><br /><br />Lannarebirth -- you are correct --- a seated government cannot give in to any mob. The PPP governments did not (rightly!) and neither can the democrats. The cycle of mobs has to end AND there can be no precedent set for giving in to the goals of an illegal and violent mob!<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Not that i want to put fuel on fire , and i dont like Thaksin anyway but he was care taker PM at the moment of the coup only because the dems boycotted the April 2006 elections and more to the point <br />paid bribes to other smaller parties to do the same . Else Thaksin would have been elected . Same had elections been held in October 2006 .<br />TRT counter bribed in April 2006 , and was disbanded in 2007 for that while the dems were not . In spite of both beeing convicted so to speak by the attorney general . <br /><br />Anyway bottom line is that order has to be restored , I agree , but not if possible with more loss of lives <br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />Because (drum roll) the yellows 'control' everything and anytime the reds win they are banned or 'induced' to change sides - it's all utter, utter BS - anyway it needs to end - peacefully - if Abhisit announces a timeline for elections that should do it - but he doesn't he fiddles while BKK burns - probably because his masters have told him too - some of this we can't discuss anyway.<br />

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Yes i do hope that it ends up peacefully , if unarmed civilians get killed , Thailand looses , not only Abhisit or the reds .

We have seen that movie before . But my read is that people start to be really fed up , so it has to play relatively fast

[pornsasi]

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Not that i want to put fuel on fire <b>&lt;SNIP&gt;</b>

<br />Little fuzzy on your facts are you 'pornsai'? It might behoove you to actually read the posts by 'jdinasia' (take him off ignore <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="&lt;_&lt;" border="0" alt="dry.gif" /> ) It is true that the OAG forwarded BOTH cases to the Constitutional Court, but only the TRT was found guilty. Sorry, an intelligent person MIGHT be lead to believe that either the Demz were not Guilty or there was insufficient evidence to prove their guilt. (Then again, for the Red Apologists out there; please disregard the term an intelligent person in the above sentence as the two terms cannot be used in the same sentence as they are mutually contradictory <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> ). <br /><br />Also Thaksin was caretaker P/M because HE dissolved the Lower House to STALL due process NOT any other reason. In fact he was actually in <u>expired</u> caretaker status when he was coup'd out by the military.<br /><br />Unless I am mistaken when the public called for UN intervention and/or mediation during the Thaksin days his answer was &quot;The UN is not my father'. That thailand is xenophobic to the n-th degree should come as NO surprise to anyone whose lived here even a small amount of time. They want to solve their problems internally, and as a country have a right to do that. Anyone seen any UN peacekeepers in the south since the violence down there started? Hmmm, I think that is NO… . <br /><br />I thought it was quite interesting (and telling) that the PTP did the abrupt about face and reversed their stance on calling for a no confidence vote in the Lower House; especially after tooting their own horn to anyone who'd listen about how they were all fired up to do just that. <br /><br />The reason they backed out is quite simple; During a no confidence vote the Dems could counter each and every charge the PTP leveled at them with things like facts. They (the Dems) could also call into question some of the PTP's actions. It had NOTHING to do with the PTP's p/r (in this case p/r means paranoia rhetoric) statement 'the government has blood on its hands', and everything to do with the PTP's allegations against the Dems not holding up to close scrutiny and/or serious public debate.<br /><br />This is an internal, very, VERY localized, political thing for thailand. Drive 5 kilometers in any direction and you'd be hard pressed to even know which way the reds were camped out in their bamboo/rubber tire forts. <br /><br />No matter how you spin it, in ANY way, shape or form it is NOTHING even close to resembling a 'civil war'. Few if ANY former prime ministers who faced things like this have EVER embraced outside mediation. In fact I don't believe even a single one ever has. (someone should Google it, personally I don't care). <br /><br />Like I said, first the redz went to the UN, then the EU, and as they work their way down the list I'm sure they'll find someone somewhere who cares (Castro, Chavez &amp; the Burma Junta come to mind). It sure ain't gonna be ANY of the first world countries; who already know this entire chain of events is nothing more than a single political party's disenfranchisement in the way things played out post coup, once their guys; Samak &amp; Somchai were axed due to violating electoral and constitutional laws. <br /><br />Now it should come as no surprise that the above mentioned first world countries are going to come out with politically correct statements about ending the strife without violence and/or condemning the violence. &lt;deleted&gt; are they gonna say; 'We hope you kill each other?; Sheesh <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> . . <br /><br />Red Shirt apologists are quick to forget; the Demz are in power under the exact same laws and same constitution which Samak and Somchai ran their governments under. <br /><br />This only shows that a savvy political party can; by getting a majority of MP's in the Lower House on their side, get the MANDATE 'from the people' to run the government. The country has none other than Newin Chidchob to thank for this. <br /><br />This whole thing is just sour grapes on the part of the ex-TRT/ex-PPP/now-PTP that once Newin and his &quot;friends of Newin&quot; group defected to the Dems side giving them the majority of MP's the PTP didn't like it one bit. <br /><br />IMHO the PTP should suck it up, be the party in opposition like a MINORITY party is supposed to, and when it's time for elections get your constituents to vote your MP's back in.<br /><br />As an aside whacky-weng is far from a moderate on that team, as well as being prone to rambling about nothing of consequence for hours on end. Granted he's less violence prone that the fire-brands; Natthawut, Suporn, Arisman, and Jatuporn, but the real moderate (and possibly the key to this whole mess) is Veera Musikapong. For those not listening to Red Rachaprasong Radio, he has been noticeably absent from speaking, and is hardly ever one of the smiling 'three-stooges' during the photo-op camera sessions they do which they erroneously call 'press conferences'. <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> <br /><br /><b>AND NOW BACK TO THE PISSING MATCH ALREADY IN PROGRESS</b> <br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Alright , agree with you on Veera , bit of confusion between Weng and Veera . Correct Thaksin did disolve parliament and was named care taker by HM . Why ? <br />Because mobs on the street . And elections rescheduled in October 2006 to which the dems agreed to participate fairly by the way . <br />Now I dont think the dems were innocent of paying bribes to smaller parties in April 2006 and they are evidence brought up by the PTP to reopen the case <br />on TRT , like false witness . Will find the article for you tomorrow . <br />Thanks anyway

Edit : PS I never said its a civil war , not yet . But it could still turn that way . I hope it wont .

Lets put it plainly what happened in 2006 is past , and i dont care .

Nor do i care who wins or who dont , am not into pissing contests .

If you think a bloodbath is preferable to the UN be my guest .

As for Thaksin ideas on the UN , i dont give a rat ass . Am not a Thaksin follower

Edited May 2, 2010 by pornsasi

[Tod Daniels]

Yes i do hope that it ends up peacefully , if unarmed civilians get killed , Thailand looses , not only Abhisit or the reds .

We have seen that movie before . But my read is that people start to be really fed up , so it has to play relatively fast

NO it has to play out fast if you're on the red side. The longer this drags on the more chances they have to pull another 'open mouth, insert foot' stunt like the Chula Hospital incredibly astute publicity stunt , and/or the Sala Daeng barricade fiasco; Take 'em down! NO wait, Khattiya said put 'em back up! No, you're right, okay take 'em down. Another great publicity move if there ever was one.

You’re right that people are starting to get fed up, in that they now see to what extreme the redz will go to, to ‘win’ this pissing match with the government. Public sediment <sic> is fast changing. .. The longer it drags out the more it erodes for the redz.

The red leadership is very fragmented in both ideology and in any clear way forward, not being able to agree to further negotiations with the already generous offer the Dems made to dissolve the Lower House nearly a YEAR before their term is due to legally expire. They (the leaders) seem to exhibit very little, if ANY control over their underlings (who also claim to be 'leaders', Seh Daeng, Maj-Gen Khattiya comes to mind). How many times can use the lame excuse; "They acted on their own" from the Rachaprasong stage in regards to publicity blunders?

I think the current government learned a hard lesson April 10; the reds will do ANYTHING to escalate this to a violent show-down; maybe even to the point of killing their own protestors. (Although I believe the truth on that is unlikely to ever come out).

The government is now practicing a sound policy of containment and a show of force to deter the reds from their ever popular mobile rallies and/or moving to a new rally site.

The reds have tried at every turn to provoke the government into a 'crack down'. Christ Red Radio warns of a crack down EVERY frickin' day. Listen to Rachaprasong Red Radio for a few minutes once the hideous cat wailing sound that passes for singing stops. Those leaders ain't preaching peace, love and flowers as the way out. It is some of the most vile, rude, hate filled, violence inciting, one sided, political rhetoric you'd EVER hear.

I think if Abhisit/Anupong/Suthep give the red leaders enough rope, they'll hang themselves. Maybe not today, but sooner and with far less loss of life than tryin to pry the reds from Rachaprasong or the Sala Daeng tree forts they have.

As an aside to the poster known as ‘pornsai’. .. PLEASE (I may speak for everyone who doesn't have you on ignore ) READ how to respond with quoted text, nested quotes in the ‘help section'. It’s a tough slog reading your posts. Although your responses are interesting to read..

Edited May 2, 2010 by tod-daniels

[jdinasia]

Not that i want to put fuel on fire <SNIP>

Little fuzzy on your facts are you 'pornsai'? It might behoove you to actually read the posts by 'jdinasia' (take him off ignore ) It is true that the OAG forwarded BOTH cases to the Constitutional Court, but only the TRT was found guilty. Sorry, an intelligent person MIGHT be lead to believe that either the Demz were not Guilty or there was insufficient evidence to prove their guilt. (Then again, for the Red Apologists out there; please disregard the term an intelligent person in the above sentence as the two terms cannot be used in the same sentence as they are mutually contradictory ).

Also Thaksin was caretaker P/M because HE dissolved the Lower House to STALL due process NOT any other reason. In fact he was actually in expired caretaker status when he was coup'd out by the military.

Unless I am mistaken when the public called for UN intervention and/or mediation during the Thaksin days his answer was "The UN is not my father'. That thailand is xenophobic to the n-th degree should come as NO surprise to anyone whose lived here even a small amount of time. They want to solve their problems internally, and as a country have a right to do that. Anyone seen any UN peacekeepers in the south since the violence down there started? Hmmm, I think that is NO… .

I thought it was quite interesting (and telling) that the PTP did the abrupt about face and reversed their stance on calling for a no confidence vote in the Lower House; especially after tooting their own horn to anyone who'd listen about how they were all fired up to do just that.

The reason they backed out is quite simple; During a no confidence vote the Dems could counter each and every charge the PTP leveled at them with things like facts. They (the Dems) could also call into question some of the PTP's actions. It had NOTHING to do with the PTP's p/r (in this case p/r means paranoia rhetoric) statement 'the government has blood on its hands', and everything to do with the PTP's allegations against the Dems not holding up to close scrutiny and/or serious public debate.

This is an internal, very, VERY localized, political thing for thailand. Drive 5 kilometers in any direction and you'd be hard pressed to even know which way the reds were camped out in their bamboo/rubber tire forts.

No matter how you spin it, in ANY way, shape or form it is NOTHING even close to resembling a 'civil war'. Few if ANY former prime ministers who faced things like this have EVER embraced outside mediation. In fact I don't believe even a single one ever has. (someone should Google it, personally I don't care).

Like I said, first the redz went to the UN, then the EU, and as they work their way down the list I'm sure they'll find someone somewhere who cares (Castro, Chavez & the Burma Junta come to mind). It sure ain't gonna be ANY of the first world countries; who already know this entire chain of events is nothing more than a single political party's disenfranchisement in the way things played out post coup, once their guys; Samak & Somchai were axed due to violating electoral and constitutional laws.

Now it should come as no surprise that the above mentioned first world countries are going to come out with politically correct statements about ending the strife without violence and/or condemning the violence. &lt;deleted&gt; are they gonna say; 'We hope you kill each other?; Sheesh . .

Red Shirt apologists are quick to forget; the Demz are in power under the exact same laws and same constitution which Samak and Somchai ran their governments under.

This only shows that a savvy political party can; by getting a majority of MP's in the Lower House on their side, get the MANDATE 'from the people' to run the government. The country has none other than Newin Chidchob to thank for this.

This whole thing is just sour grapes on the part of the ex-TRT/ex-PPP/now-PTP that once Newin and his "friends of Newin" group defected to the Dems side giving them the majority of MP's the PTP didn't like it one bit.

IMHO the PTP should suck it up, be the party in opposition like a MINORITY party is supposed to, and when it's time for elections get your constituents to vote your MP's back in.

As an aside whacky-weng is far from a moderate on that team, as well as being prone to rambling about nothing of consequence for hours on end. Granted he's less violence prone that the fire-brands; Natthawut, Suporn, Arisman, and Jatuporn, but the real moderate (and possibly the key to this whole mess) is Veera Musikapong. For those not listening to Red Rachaprasong Radio, he has been noticeably absent from speaking, and is hardly ever one of the smiling 'three-stooges' during the photo-op camera sessions they do which they erroneously call 'press conferences'.

AND NOW BACK TO THE PISSING MATCH ALREADY IN PROGRESS

good post

Weng -- besides continueing the red lie about the doctored videotape has openly called for violence. I would have agreed with you about Veera except that after the government went to negotiations with the Reds (where the reds didn't negotiate at all) Veera came out smelling like a rose. Apparently the rest of the reds didn't like this. Within a couple of days it was Veera saying the would burn down a government building. (The national counter corruption agency?)

It is worth remembering that Veera has served time for supporting a failed coup!

[pornsasi]

<br />

Yes i do hope that it ends up peacefully , if unarmed civilians get killed , Thailand looses , not only Abhisit or the reds . <br />We have seen that movie before . But my read is that people start to be really fed up , so it has to play relatively fast

<br />NO it has to play out fast if you're on the red side. The longer this drags on the more chances they have to pull another 'open mouth, insert foot' stunt like the Chula Hospital incredibly astute publicity stunt <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> , and/or the Sala Daeng barricade fiasco; Take 'em down! NO wait, Khattiya said put 'em back up! No, you're right, okay take 'em down. Another great publicity move if there ever was one. <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> <br /><br />You're right that people are starting to get fed up, in that they now see to what extreme the redz will go to, to 'win' this pissing match with the government. <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mad.gif" /> Public sediment <sic> is fast changing. .. The longer it drags out the more it erodes.<br /><br />The red leadership is very fragmented in both ideology and in any clear way forward, not being able to agree to further negotiations with the already generous offer the Dems made to dissolove the Lower House nearly a YEAR before their term is due to legally expire. They (the leaders) seem to exhibit very little, if ANY control over their underlings (who also claim to be 'leaders', Seh Daeng, Maj-Gen Khattiya comes to mind). How many times can use the lame excuse; "They acted on their own" from the Rachaprasong stage in regards to publicity blunders? <br /><br />I think the current government learned a hard lesson April 10; the reds will do ANYTHING to escalate this to a violent show-down; maybe even to the point of killing their own protestors. (Although I believe the truth on that is unlikely to ever come out). <br /><br />The government is now practicing a sound policy of containment, and a show of force to deter the reds from their ever popular mobile rallies and/or moving to a new rally site. <br /><br />The reds have tried at every turn to provoke the government into a 'crack down'. Christ Red Radio warns of a crack down EVERY frickin' day. Listen to Rachaprasong Red Radio for a few minutes once the cat wailing hiddeous singing stops. They ain't preaching peace, love and flowers as the way out. It is some of the most vile, rude, hate filled, violence inciting one sided political rhetoric you'd EVER hear. <br /><br />I think if Abhisit/Anupong/Suthep give the red leaders enough rope, they'll hang themselves. Maybe not today, but sooner and with far less loss of life than tryin to pry the reds from Rachaprasong or the Rama 6 tree forts they have. <br /><br />As an aside to the poster known as 'pornsai'. .. PLEASE (I may speak for everyone who doesn't have you on ignore <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />i) READ how to respond with quoted text, nested quotes in the 'help section'. It's a tough slog reading your posts. Although your responses are interesting to read.. <br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Toad_daniels

Ok fine , yes as long as the red are contained , one can wait with one or two bataillons of troops in Silom that is .

Not that i care much , am not in Silom

They reds have done stupid stunt recently and it may continue , that one agree with you .

As for 2006 it over .

Feel free to put me on ignore and continue your rambling , am out of this thread anyway .

Choose your enemies more wisely next time

Meanwhile have a beer , and relax

[Tod Daniels]

Toad_daniels <SNIP>

Feel free to put me on ignore and continue your rambling , am out of this thread anyway .

Choose your enemies more wisely next time

Meanwhile have a beer , and relax

Pornsai, I DON'T have you on ignore, and misspelling my first name on porpoise <sic> is just plain childish. I only asked you learn how to respond with nested quotes, or quoted text. I am far from the sharpest tool in the proverbial tool shed, but even I learned how to do it. I know you can too

I find your take on 'all-thingz-thai' predictably and firmly in the red-apologist camp. Especially when you don't respond to facts which rebut your statements and/or beliefs with any facts of your own.

In and of itself, that neither invalidates your opinion, nor does it invalidate mine. (To me, opinions are like bowel movements; everyone has one once in a while ). I already stated I enjoy reading your replies and I NEVER EVER misspelled your user name either .

I'm a foreigner, and I wholeheartedly agree with what my ambassador said at the town hall meeting; "We don't have a dog in this fight." I follow the thai political situation because I live here, by choice not chance. I've spent hours trying to understand the post coup situation, the political make up, the laws that govern political parties, and what the process is for people who violate those laws. I don’t care a &lt;deleted&gt; about thai culture I care about thai politics, they are NOT anything close to the same.

FWIW: I have thai friends who are reds, yellows, multi-colors, no colors, and now ones that are thai soldiers (seeing as they're stationed at the mouth of my soi). Over drinks (sometimes to excess) almost every nite we have lively political discussions, yet not a single time has it it EVER turned disrespectful towards one another; no matter which color shirt they're wearing.

What I find oxymoronic is; if in fact their constituents can meet and have this kind of dialog, why can't the leaders of the opposing factions do it too.

Sorry, to your advice that I have a beer; not a beer drinker. A coupla shots of SangSom (thai rum) right now wouldn't be all bad though.. ..

To; "jdinasia"

I thought Veera serve time for a lese majeste charge and then got a royal pardon after a couple years?

(I had his life history internet page saved but now can't find it ). ..

Edited May 2, 2010 by tod-daniels

[jdinasia]

I see Abhisit has:

Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.

Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.

WOW

I can come up with many things that could save this.

1) reds discontinue their illegal and violent protests and go home and wait for elections, after all the reds want Democracy --

2) government proves its case to the satisfaction of the people of Thailand. They arrest the black-shirted terrorists and all of the leaders that have publicly called for violence. Those that are convicted in either military court (if they are active military) or civilian court are then dealt with. Insurrection, Treason, Terrorism, ... they all carry the death sentence I think.

3) Someone IMPORTANT speaks up and makes a suggestion.

4) Thaksin dies of colon cancer and the impetus dries up.

5) The reds step over the line just one more time in a critical way.

sorry to so openly quote myself! Regarding point #2

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his deputy for Security Affairs, Suthep Thaugsuban, also reported the latest situation to cabinet members. They informed the cabinet members of operational directions to tackle the ongoing political problems, adding that the government had evidences and witnesses for terrorist and monarchy-related cases.

quote from today's rally thread (locked)

it IS possible that they really DO have an end-game in mind.

[Tod Daniels]

To the poster known as "pornsasi". ..

Honestly, I had NO idea I'd misspelled your name (no really I didn’t!!). I only briefly glanced at it and thought it was another b/s transliteration/transcription of a thai word or phrase.

I stand humbly errected () that I have misspelled your name continually, BUT for the record; I will no longer do it.

Again I apologize for the error in your user name, but that is still NO reason to call me Toad, instead of Tod .

BACK ON TOPIC

One can only hope the current government has an "end game" in sight, as the "end game" which the red shirt leaders have is a far different outcome. Sadly, only thais will suffer the consequences. .. (well actually the thais and that frickin' wing-nut of an irish born-aussie down at the red stage who is here illegally, on overstay, without a baht to his name, w/out a passport, who can't speak a word of thai, yet who is another red foreign sock puppet apologist !!)..

[Chaimai]

As an aside, I was driving through Buriram today and the missus made a comment about a piece of graffiti (quite rare in Buriram) on a bus shelter.

Apparently, it said "Kwai Thaksin"

I was surprised by that.

Whilst I have seen indifference and even boredom relating to events in Bangkok, this was the first time I had seen a negative Thaksin comment.

[pornsasi]

To the poster known as "pornsasi". ..

Honestly, I had NO idea I'd misspelled your name (no really I didn't!!). I only briefly glanced at it and thought it was another b/s transliteration/transcription of a thai word or phrase.

I stand humbly errected ( ) that I have misspelled your name continually, BUT for the record; I will no longer do it.

Again I apologize for the error in your user name, but that is still NO reason to call me Toad, instead of Tod .

BACK ON TOPIC

One can only hope the current government has an "end game" in sight, as the "end game" which the red shirt leaders have is a far different outcome. Sadly, only thais will suffer the consequences. .. (well actually the thais and that frickin' wing-nut of an irish born-aussie down at the red stage who is here illegally, on overstay, without a baht to his name, w/out a passport, who can't speak a word of thai, yet who is another red foreign sock puppet apologist !!)..

Pornsasi is the name of my wife , i am also farang myself , and i did not feel it right to have her name changed . I was wrong to retaliate in kind , and sincere apologies for that .

No am not pro red at least not anymore , i hope Abhisit can pull it out . He is in power now , has performed very well under the circumstance and cards he has been given. I hope he can and will implement his various programs for the thai people , and i also hope that he will accept freedom of speech , by not turning off the medias that disagree with him or post blatant lies . The answer to lies is truth not censorship . Its hard not be sympathetic somehow to the reds rank and file when you consider that many families in the North live on 3000 b per month , eating sticky rice morning lunch and evening and bit of dried fish from time to time without any hope for the future . While youngsters in BKK regurarly spend much more on the latest handphone model . Poorer and richer will always exist but that is worse then that . However the last red mob invasion of the hospital , when they could have sent 2 or 3 observers , covertly or openly , prooves to me that is pointless to support idiots . I have always been very critical of the reds method , and now my patience with em is really out .

The other point is that we are foreigner , with influence on thai politics nil . Its no point to be fanatic for one cause or another to the point that we agress or ridicule other farang that do not think like us . Thais usually are much less passionate and its their country , why not take example on them ? . Just before talking to you , i was talking on another thread to a chap very pro Thaksin , who tried to insult me , because i said that Thaksin was a criminal on account of his war on drugs and extra judiciary killings . His argument was that the war on drugs worked in dissuading drug trafficker . I told him same result could had been obtained by arresting , judging and executing upon conviction real drug traffickers and also then questioned him on what he had to say about the hundreds of innocent thais that had nothing to do with drugs and were executed in cold blood . Told him also that the PM has to uphold the rule of law , well it seems that the rule of mob , not the rule of law , is a contant behavior pattern in anything related to the bilionaire prai . In those forums one has to put up with all kind of extremists , thats the problem .

On 2006-2007 (bribing by the dems of smaller parties , verdict of the court during the junta ) , lets no argue on that , we might have different opinions but by now its irrelevant , because its the past . Saying what i believe to be the truth does not make me a red supporter in any sense . I am equally critical of the red leaders conduct and of Thaksin legacy in terms of human right .

On the rest i agree with most that you say , PPP are idiots to have been caught on video handling bribes , they got what they deserved . Not that am in favor of disolving entire parties , but of punishing harshly the party executives instead . Like Animatic said 10 years ban on politics would be a good start , i believe some fines too .

Edit for typo

Edited May 3, 2010 by pornsasi

[Humungus]

THE NATION: Suthep: Red leaders won't necessarily be captured alive if they resist arrest with firearms.

Suthep is good at talking tough, but there is never any action that follows his statements. They won't necessarily be captured if things continue to go the way they have been. They can probably walk away through a crowd of police and no one would lift a finger to arrest them.

[pornsasi]

To the poster known as "pornsasi". ..

Honestly, I had NO idea I'd misspelled your name (no really I didn't!!). I only briefly glanced at it and thought it was another b/s transliteration/transcription of a thai word or phrase.

I stand humbly errected ( ) that I have misspelled your name continually, BUT for the record; I will no longer do it.

Again I apologize for the error in your user name, but that is still NO reason to call me Toad, instead of Tod .

BACK ON TOPIC

One can only hope the current government has an "end game" in sight, as the "end game" which the red shirt leaders have is a far different outcome. Sadly, only thais will suffer the consequences. .. (well actually the thais and that frickin' wing-nut of an irish born-aussie down at the red stage who is here illegally, on overstay, without a baht to his name, w/out a passport, who can't speak a word of thai, yet who is another red foreign sock puppet apologist !!)..

Sorry one more thing on the substance that i forgot

You said asking for a quick resolution of the conflict is beeing pro-red because if the governement waits the reds will hang themselves . Have you thought this thru ?

Yes the reds probably will hang themselves but how ? By trying to demonstrate in other parts of Bangok . Then Police/Army will shoot rubber at first , some nutcase might throw grenades at soldiers , soldiers will retaliate , red guard also , both with live ammos , children and old people will be killed and its not only the reds but the governement that will hang themselves . Trust me , better have this all madness stopped soonest possible and its not beeing pro red to say that .

As for UN intervention , i said IF really no other choice . Better of course if thais can resolve among themselves .

[TAWP]

I have said they are there legally (as is Mugabe) but I have never suggested they have a mandate and are therefore legitimate in the eyes of the people (you know they are the ones that voted a red governement?)

Can we have a blanket bann on individuals that post outright lies disproved hundreds of times?

It is clear it is not a misunderstanding but pure propaganda right now.

A hint: The 'reds' was NOT voted into any majority position. (If we now should equate PPP or PTP with the Reds.)

More people voted for the democrats in pure votes than for PPP.

Deal with it.

It's just not true... many MPs were banned - remember? your analysis is weak and wrong - other MPs (red) crossed-the-floor probably due to 'inducements' - the red government were booted out WITHOUT an election - you deal 'it'

What is not true? That a few MPs was banned doesn't alter anything of what I wrote above.

[jdinasia]

Governments in parliamentary democracies getting replaced without an election is fairly common. CMF knows this too. Party leadership being banned due to the actions of party leadership is the law of the land. Bye elections etc took care of many slots. The people didn't vote in a Red governent at all .. they voted and then a COALITION government led by the reds was founded based upon the votes of Members of Parliament. CMF knows that too. He knows that raw votes went more to the Dems than the PPP. (remember raw votes do NOT matter -- only seats in parliament matter) If his question revolves around what the PEOPLE want then he needs to petition for more fair representation per voter --- since the Dems got more votes it would suggest that the people WANTED the Dems. CMF also knows that smaller parties had promised NOT to form a government with PPP, but they did. The only people those smaller parties are answerable to are their voters but this case might suggest that a Recall vote option should be in the constitution. A recall vote would allow voters to call for a new election (only in their constituencies) if their elected representatives failed to adequately represent the voters.

again -- in earlier threads CMF has admitted all this and just uses this argument to sidetrack discussions

Pornsasi --- you gave out bad information about the Dems in the past. The EC moved a case forward on them but the courts did not convict them. (The EC has now forwarded another case to the courts and I expect the same result. The EC does not require the same burden of proof that a court does.)

[kissdani]

THE NATION: Suthep: Red leaders won't necessarily be captured alive if they resist arrest with firearms.

Suthep is good at talking tough, but there is never any action that follows his statements. They won't necessarily be captured if things continue to go the way they have been. They can probably walk away through a crowd of police and no one would lift a finger to arrest them.

Link?

What is the full story or is that one of this twitter "news"?

[elcent]

Maydays at hand soon and as earlier predicted

-- The Nation

Cabinet acknowledges need for Army move against red-shirt demonstrators

By PIYANART SRIVALO

THE NATION

Published on May 3, 2010

The Cabinet yesterday acknowledged the need for the use of Army force against red-shirt pro-testers occupying the Rajprasong intersection, as Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva grimly warned the public in his weekly address to expect undesired results from future government action.

A closed-door Cabinet meet-ing accepted a bigger role for armed troops who, since the "Black Saturday" drama on April 10, have still played mostly a sec-ondary role to police comman-dos.

"The government's action from now on will carry the risk of clashes or losses which could affect the feeling of the general public," Abhisit said. "But the government has its duty and will have to do what needs to be done."

It was Abhisit's first such pub-lic statement. He and other top officials yesterday reiterated the government's determination to reclaim the Rajprasong intersec-tion from the protesters. An SMS campaign will be launched to persuade as many demonstrators as possible to leave the area.

Abhisit said the government had made significant progress in inquiries into a series of inci-dents, which he said confirmed suspicion that some were acts of terrorism.

Yesterday's emergency Cabinet meeting followed an invasion of Chulalongkorn Hospital by some protesters that increased pressure on the gov-ernment to deal with the pro-longed rally.

"We want the operation to take place as soon as possible so we will do everything we can to ensure the least losses and maxi-mum safety for people involved," said acting government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn.

Panitan denied that the Cabinet discussed the possibility of impos-ing martial law in the area.

Sources said that the use of force had been allowed under the declared state of emergency, but Premier Abhisit still wanted to seek Cabinet endorsement.

"The prime minister wanted every step to be taken with trans-parency and clear-cut proce-dures," one source said.

According to the sources, there were questions and debate during the Cabinet meeting as to when troops would really act to reclaim the Rajprasong intersec-tion. Those responsible for secu-rity replied that troops would only act when "circumstances permit", with Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan being quoted as saying: "We can do it today, right now, but who will take responsibility if there is loss of life?"

Yesterday's emergency Cabinet meeting also discussed a long-term plan to overhaul the political system, government offi-cials said. A national road map is expected to be announced by the prime minister once it is com-pleted.

The road map brings together proposals and opinions from all relevant state agencies, private organisations as well as key social networks. "It will be announced when ready and |once it is announced, all state mecha-nisms will immediately begin implementation," Panitan said.

Meanwhile, Abhisit has coordi-nated with the Senate to allow a live broadcast of the Upper House's addresses on the politi-cal crisis that would cover recent violent incidents. However, the live broadcast by TV Channel 11, starting at 9.30am, will black out any replay of audio or video clips that could inflame the political situation.

Abhisit will take part in the Senate session along with the Defence minister, the Interior minister, the Justice minister, the Education minister, the ICT minister, the Public Health min-ister, the Foreign minister and PM's Office Minister Satit Wongnongtoey.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[pornsasi]

Governments in parliamentary democracies getting replaced without an election is fairly common. CMF knows this too. Party leadership being banned due to the actions of party leadership is the law of the land. Bye elections etc took care of many slots. The people didn't vote in a Red governent at all .. they voted and then a COALITION government led by the reds was founded based upon the votes of Members of Parliament. CMF knows that too. He knows that raw votes went more to the Dems than the PPP. (remember raw votes do NOT matter -- only seats in parliament matter) If his question revolves around what the PEOPLE want then he needs to petition for more fair representation per voter --- since the Dems got more votes it would suggest that the people WANTED the Dems. CMF also knows that smaller parties had promised NOT to form a government with PPP, but they did. The only people those smaller parties are answerable to are their voters but this case might suggest that a Recall vote option should be in the constitution. A recall vote would allow voters to call for a new election (only in their constituencies) if their elected representatives failed to adequately represent the voters.

again -- in earlier threads CMF has admitted all this and just uses this argument to sidetrack discussions

Pornsasi --- you gave out bad information about the Dems in the past. The EC moved a case forward on them but the courts did not convict them. (The EC has now forwarded another case to the courts and I expect the same result. The EC does not require the same burden of proof that a court does.)

Bad information or wrong information ? When ?

Thanks we ALL know how the thai system works and its exemplary records in free

and fair elections with some regular military coups and junta just for fun .

No need to explain at all , facts speak for themselves .

The case was reviewed by the attorney general , not just the EC

which means it had a strong flavor of validity , that

before it was sent to a court operating under a military junta and martial law

I have no wish to see Abhisit thrown out of office , trust me on that .

This time as no more military junta , i will trust the court , whichever the result

[caf]

Crisis group predicts civil war in Thailand

By South East Asia correspondent Zoe Daniel

Posted 10 hours 29 minutes ago

The anti-government Red Shirts have now been protesting for eight weeks.

The anti-government Red Shirts have now been protesting for eight weeks. (Reuters: Vivek Prakash)

* Related Story: Thai PM talks tough but Red Shirts staying put

* Related Story: Thai soldier killed in Red Shirt clashes

* Related Story: Monks wish Red Shirts good luck

Thailand's cabinet has held emergency talks after another grim prediction that the country could be on the brink of civil war without international mediation.

Leading global think tank the International Crisis Group says Thailand's political system seems incapable of ending violent protests that have gripped Bangkok for two months.

The think tank suggests international mediation to broker a solution.

East Timorese president Jose Ramos-Horta has already visited and spoken with the Thai prime minister.

The crisis group suggests that he could lead a mediation team.

However, in his weekly television address prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said the government had already decided how to deal with the crisis paralysing Bangkok.

He has declined to reveal what the plan is, but he says he needs to make sure it succeeds.

[h90]

Maydays at hand soon and as earlier predicted

-- The Nation

Cabinet acknowledges need for Army move against red-shirt demonstrators

By PIYANART SRIVALO

THE NATION

Published on May 3, 2010

The Cabinet yesterday acknowledged the need for the use of Army force against red-shirt pro-testers occupying the Rajprasong intersection, as Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva grimly warned the public in his weekly address to expect undesired results from future government action.

A closed-door Cabinet meet-ing accepted a bigger role for armed troops who, since the "Black Saturday" drama on April 10, have still played mostly a sec-ondary role to police comman-dos.

"The government's action from now on will carry the risk of clashes or losses which could affect the feeling of the general public," Abhisit said. "But the government has its duty and will have to do what needs to be done."

It was Abhisit's first such pub-lic statement. He and other top officials yesterday reiterated the government's determination to reclaim the Rajprasong intersec-tion from the protesters. An SMS campaign will be launched to persuade as many demonstrators as possible to leave the area.

Abhisit said the government had made significant progress in inquiries into a series of inci-dents, which he said confirmed suspicion that some were acts of terrorism.

Yesterday's emergency Cabinet meeting followed an invasion of Chulalongkorn Hospital by some protesters that increased pressure on the gov-ernment to deal with the pro-longed rally.

"We want the operation to take place as soon as possible so we will do everything we can to ensure the least losses and maxi-mum safety for people involved," said acting government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn.

Panitan denied that the Cabinet discussed the possibility of impos-ing martial law in the area.

Sources said that the use of force had been allowed under the declared state of emergency, but Premier Abhisit still wanted to seek Cabinet endorsement.

"The prime minister wanted every step to be taken with trans-parency and clear-cut proce-dures," one source said.

According to the sources, there were questions and debate during the Cabinet meeting as to when troops would really act to reclaim the Rajprasong intersec-tion. Those responsible for secu-rity replied that troops would only act when "circumstances permit", with Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan being quoted as saying: "We can do it today, right now, but who will take responsibility if there is loss of life?"

Yesterday's emergency Cabinet meeting also discussed a long-term plan to overhaul the political system, government offi-cials said. A national road map is expected to be announced by the prime minister once it is com-pleted.

The road map brings together proposals and opinions from all relevant state agencies, private organisations as well as key social networks. "It will be announced when ready and |once it is announced, all state mecha-nisms will immediately begin implementation," Panitan said.

Meanwhile, Abhisit has coordi-nated with the Senate to allow a live broadcast of the Upper House's addresses on the politi-cal crisis that would cover recent violent incidents. However, the live broadcast by TV Channel 11, starting at 9.30am, will black out any replay of audio or video clips that could inflame the political situation.

Abhisit will take part in the Senate session along with the Defence minister, the Interior minister, the Justice minister, the Education minister, the ICT minister, the Public Health min-ister, the Foreign minister and PM's Office Minister Satit Wongnongtoey.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

On the BP is an article of armoured vehicle, but they did not reach Bangkok yet. It is just 7 weeks.......so they are extremely quick to start getting them now to Bangkok

[ChiangMaiFun]

Governments in parliamentary democracies getting replaced without an election is fairly common. CMF knows this too. Party leadership being banned due to the actions of party leadership is the law of the land. Bye elections etc took care of many slots. The people didn't vote in a Red governent at all .. they voted and then a COALITION government led by the reds was founded based upon the votes of Members of Parliament. CMF knows that too. He knows that raw votes went more to the Dems than the PPP. (remember raw votes do NOT matter -- only seats in parliament matter) If his question revolves around what the PEOPLE want then he needs to petition for more fair representation per voter --- since the Dems got more votes it would suggest that the people WANTED the Dems. CMF also knows that smaller parties had promised NOT to form a government with PPP, but they did. The only people those smaller parties are answerable to are their voters but this case might suggest that a Recall vote option should be in the constitution. A recall vote would allow voters to call for a new election (only in their constituencies) if their elected representatives failed to adequately represent the voters.

again -- in earlier threads CMF has admitted all this and just uses this argument to sidetrack discussions

Pornsasi --- you gave out bad information about the Dems in the past. The EC moved a case forward on them but the courts did not convict them. (The EC has now forwarded another case to the courts and I expect the same result. The EC does not require the same burden of proof that a court does.)

good try... but nonsense - no point recycling the arguements about MPs switching alliances when voted in for a different agenda, or about banning parties and MPs due to a few individuals (any outher country do this?) - JDinasia knows all this but sticks to his adoration of Abhisit - who will fall eventually...

[TheOldWolf]

CMF: didn´t PPP know about EC and the rules when they went to election or did this rules come after the election? If I go inte a game, I must play the game according to the rules, or stay out, don´t you think so?

[h90]

Governments in parliamentary democracies getting replaced without an election is fairly common. CMF knows this too. Party leadership being banned due to the actions of party leadership is the law of the land. Bye elections etc took care of many slots. The people didn't vote in a Red governent at all .. they voted and then a COALITION government led by the reds was founded based upon the votes of Members of Parliament. CMF knows that too. He knows that raw votes went more to the Dems than the PPP. (remember raw votes do NOT matter -- only seats in parliament matter) If his question revolves around what the PEOPLE want then he needs to petition for more fair representation per voter --- since the Dems got more votes it would suggest that the people WANTED the Dems. CMF also knows that smaller parties had promised NOT to form a government with PPP, but they did. The only people those smaller parties are answerable to are their voters but this case might suggest that a Recall vote option should be in the constitution. A recall vote would allow voters to call for a new election (only in their constituencies) if their elected representatives failed to adequately represent the voters.

again -- in earlier threads CMF has admitted all this and just uses this argument to sidetrack discussions

Pornsasi --- you gave out bad information about the Dems in the past. The EC moved a case forward on them but the courts did not convict them. (The EC has now forwarded another case to the courts and I expect the same result. The EC does not require the same burden of proof that a court does.)

good try... but nonsense - no point recycling the arguements about MPs switching alliances when voted in for a different agenda, or about banning parties and MPs due to a few individuals (any outher country do this?) - JDinasia knows all this but sticks to his adoration of Abhisit - who will fall eventually...

In the areas for banned MPs, no elections for replacement MPs were made.

For banning MPs and parties, I think it is unthinkable in other countries that MPs openly offers cash money. It is simply unthinkable so no one even knows about the laws. I think in my country new elections would happen and all the wrong doers would be in jail for a long time.

[danc]

Two years after the Thai military ousted then-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, the full cost of that bloodless coup is finally becoming clear. Violent antigovernment protests this week have left two people dead, 443 injured, and the country's democratic prospects in jeopardy.

The struggle is over whether Thai citizens will continue to enjoy their democratic rights. The protesters, who seek to oust the current government, have brought the government to near paralysis. The cast of characters is similar to 2006: Seven months ago the same group that had helped organize protests to oust Mr. Thaksin re-formed, led by a similar coterie of Bangkok elites, businessmen and academics.

They now call themselves the People's Alliance for Democracy, but they are anything but. Their goal is to eliminate Thailand's one-man-one-vote democracy and replace it with a parliament that is 30% elected and 70% appointed. Why? To make sure that no one like Mr. Thaksin is ever elected again.

The generals behind the 2006 coup thought that by simply removing Mr. Thaksin they could solve what they saw as the problem of Thailand's democracy: The fact that voters might choose to elect someone whom the generals and their friends in Bangkok didn't like. But when they organized elections in December, at the end of their 15-month stint as caretakers, the People Power Party, political heirs to Mr. Thaksin's party, was the victor. Mr. Thaksin, who had been in exile, jetted back to Bangkok.

The PPP may not be perfect, but it has a mandate from the voters. A vote-buying case against the PPP and two smaller parties will be brought to court next week, and a guilty verdict could force the PPP to dissolve. Until then, it remains the popularly elected government.

The PAD, in contrast, wishes to rewrite the constitution to get rid of the one-man-one-vote principle. And since it cannot win at the ballot box, it is hoping to win in a street fight instead. For the past six weeks, PAD supporters have besieged Government House, demanding that the PPP government step down.

After two PAD leaders were arrested over the weekend, 1,500 PAD supporters blockaded Parliament House while parliament was in session. The ensuing melee left hundreds wounded. The newly appointed prime minister, Somchai Wongsawat (who is Mr. Thaksin's brother-in-law), had to scale a wall and dive into a military helicopter to escape the mayhem. Thai police eventually cleared the way for the other politicians using tear gas, rubber bullets and stun grenades to dispel the crowd, according to the Associated Press. By yesterday the situation had calmed.

The PAD is crying foul over the measures employed by what they call a "killer" government. But they themselves operate like a small army: Several PAD supporters were carrying guns during the street battle on Tuesday, and others had iron rods, slingshots, spears, etc. One policeman was impaled, and two were shot.

These are not merely disgruntled citizens: The PAD is a well funded, highly organized force that operates a small city inside the government compound it has occupied for more than a month. The occupiers have electricity from generators, a constant supply of free food and water, and even portable toilets.

Facing these circumstances, Mr. Somchai doesn't have any good options. Dialogue with the PAD may be all but impossible after the violence this week. He could call a state of emergency, which would give more power to the military and police to enforce law and order, although that could turn out to be embarrassing if they didn't follow orders. A third option is to form a unity government and share governing powers with the opposition Democrat Party, albeit at the risk of looking weak. He could also hunker down and wait for the PAD to wear out -- although this could take a long time, seeing as the PAD is constantly rotating in new "protesters" from the countryside.

Meanwhile, the PAD continues its occupation of Government House. Pipop Thongchai, a PAD leader, told reporters, "We will continue to fight until Somchai resigns."

Thailand's democracy has weathered many blows, including three coups since 1973. The peaceful transition of power to the PPP after polls that were largely fair and free was a step forward. If the PAD succeeds in overturning those elections, it will be at the cost of disenfranchising millions of voters -- and at a cost to Thailand's struggling democracy.

Though this might amuse everyone - yes its from the WSJ, so politics will get in the way of an objective perception but if one can look past that, anyone get a sense of deja-vu....they are all as bad as each other...and yes, I do include Abhisit, Thaksin, et alia in that too but then again what else might one expect when they do not really have the reins....

"In horse racing they have the stable and the owner of the stable owns the horse. The jockey comes and rides the horse during the race, but the jockey does not own the horse. It?s very easy [to comprehend]" - I think we know who said that...

Edited May 3, 2010 by danc

[Jerrytheyoung]

Armored vehicles in Eastern Europe -used during Mob demonstrations- were often converted in Barbecues... IMHO, to avoid in the present circumstances, result may not be going as expected......

Edited May 3, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[bkkjames]

Armored vehicles in Eastern Europe -used during Mob demonstrations- were often converted in Barbecues... IMHO, to avoid in the present circumstances, result may not be going as expected......

[rixalex]

good try... but nonsense - no point recycling the arguements about MPs switching alliances when voted in for a different agenda,

I assume you refer to the small parties that joined the PPP coalition having run their campaigns saying they would not?

or about banning parties and MPs due to a few individuals (any outher country do this?)

If the entire party benefits from the actions of these individuals, as in this case it indeed did, i have no problem with authorities finally dishing out decent punishment with consequences that might actually serve as a deterrent. I'm sure you won't be complaining if the Dems

fall foul of these laws.

- JDinasia knows all this but sticks to his adoration of Abhisit - who will fall eventually...

JD has been critical of Abhisit in the past and i don't think adores him any more than you adore Thaksin.

[warfie]

Governments in parliamentary democracies getting replaced without an election is fairly common. CMF knows this too. Party leadership being banned due to the actions of party leadership is the law of the land. Bye elections etc took care of many slots. The people didn't vote in a Red governent at all .. they voted and then a COALITION government led by the reds was founded based upon the votes of Members of Parliament. CMF knows that too. He knows that raw votes went more to the Dems than the PPP. (remember raw votes do NOT matter -- only seats in parliament matter) If his question revolves around what the PEOPLE want then he needs to petition for more fair representation per voter --- since the Dems got more votes it would suggest that the people WANTED the Dems. CMF also knows that smaller parties had promised NOT to form a government with PPP, but they did. The only people those smaller parties are answerable to are their voters but this case might suggest that a Recall vote option should be in the constitution. A recall vote would allow voters to call for a new election (only in their constituencies) if their elected representatives failed to adequately represent the voters.

again -- in earlier threads CMF has admitted all this and just uses this argument to sidetrack discussions

Pornsasi --- you gave out bad information about the Dems in the past. The EC moved a case forward on them but the courts did not convict them. (The EC has now forwarded another case to the courts and I expect the same result. The EC does not require the same burden of proof that a court does.)

good try... but nonsense - no point recycling the arguements about MPs switching alliances when voted in for a different agenda, or about banning parties and MPs due to a few individuals (any outher country do this?) - JDinasia knows all this but sticks to his adoration of Abhisit - who will fall eventually...

In the areas for banned MPs, no elections for replacement MPs were made.

For banning MPs and parties, I think it is unthinkable in other countries that MPs openly offers cash money. It is simply unthinkable so no one even knows about the laws. I think in my country new elections would happen and all the wrong doers would be in jail for a long time.

Did you sleep through the by-elections held to replace the banned MPs?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Governments in parliamentary democracies getting replaced without an election is fairly common. CMF knows this too. Party leadership being banned due to the actions of party leadership is the law of the land. Bye elections etc took care of many slots. The people didn't vote in a Red governent at all .. they voted and then a COALITION government led by the reds was founded based upon the votes of Members of Parliament. CMF knows that too. He knows that raw votes went more to the Dems than the PPP. (remember raw votes do NOT matter -- only seats in parliament matter) If his question revolves around what the PEOPLE want then he needs to petition for more fair representation per voter --- since the Dems got more votes it would suggest that the people WANTED the Dems. CMF also knows that smaller parties had promised NOT to form a government with PPP, but they did. The only people those smaller parties are answerable to are their voters but this case might suggest that a Recall vote option should be in the constitution. A recall vote would allow voters to call for a new election (only in their constituencies) if their elected representatives failed to adequately represent the voters.

again -- in earlier threads CMF has admitted all this and just uses this argument to sidetrack discussions

Pornsasi --- you gave out bad information about the Dems in the past. The EC moved a case forward on them but the courts did not convict them. (The EC has now forwarded another case to the courts and I expect the same result. The EC does not require the same burden of proof that a court does.)

good try... but nonsense - no point recycling the arguements about MPs switching alliances when voted in for a different agenda, or about banning parties and MPs due to a few individuals (any outher country do this?) - JDinasia knows all this but sticks to his adoration of Abhisit - who will fall eventually...

In the areas for banned MPs, no elections for replacement MPs were made.

For banning MPs and parties, I think it is unthinkable in other countries that MPs openly offers cash money. It is simply unthinkable so no one even knows about the laws. I think in my country new elections would happen and all the wrong doers would be in jail for a long time.

I am as against corruption as you are - so let's ban the Dems too - let's ban them all!

[h90]

Governments in parliamentary democracies getting replaced without an election is fairly common. CMF knows this too. Party leadership being banned due to the actions of party leadership is the law of the land. Bye elections etc took care of many slots. The people didn't vote in a Red governent at all .. they voted and then a COALITION government led by the reds was founded based upon the votes of Members of Parliament. CMF knows that too. He knows that raw votes went more to the Dems than the PPP. (remember raw votes do NOT matter -- only seats in parliament matter) If his question revolves around what the PEOPLE want then he needs to petition for more fair representation per voter --- since the Dems got more votes it would suggest that the people WANTED the Dems. CMF also knows that smaller parties had promised NOT to form a government with PPP, but they did. The only people those smaller parties are answerable to are their voters but this case might suggest that a Recall vote option should be in the constitution. A recall vote would allow voters to call for a new election (only in their constituencies) if their elected representatives failed to adequately represent the voters.

again -- in earlier threads CMF has admitted all this and just uses this argument to sidetrack discussions

Pornsasi --- you gave out bad information about the Dems in the past. The EC moved a case forward on them but the courts did not convict them. (The EC has now forwarded another case to the courts and I expect the same result. The EC does not require the same burden of proof that a court does.)

good try... but nonsense - no point recycling the arguements about MPs switching alliances when voted in for a different agenda, or about banning parties and MPs due to a few individuals (any outher country do this?) - JDinasia knows all this but sticks to his adoration of Abhisit - who will fall eventually...

In the areas for banned MPs, no elections for replacement MPs were made.

For banning MPs and parties, I think it is unthinkable in other countries that MPs openly offers cash money. It is simply unthinkable so no one even knows about the laws. I think in my country new elections would happen and all the wrong doers would be in jail for a long time.

Did you sleep through the by-elections held to replace the banned MPs?

yes sorry forgot to mention that....a complete new election should have been hold, with the MPs in jail and of course WITHOUT the PTP, as the PPP was banned and the PTP is the same party with a different name.

After re-reading my own posting I think it was not clear, it sounded more like I follow the ideas of the reds.

[h90]

Governments in parliamentary democracies getting replaced without an election is fairly common. CMF knows this too. Party leadership being banned due to the actions of party leadership is the law of the land. Bye elections etc took care of many slots. The people didn't vote in a Red governent at all .. they voted and then a COALITION government led by the reds was founded based upon the votes of Members of Parliament. CMF knows that too. He knows that raw votes went more to the Dems than the PPP. (remember raw votes do NOT matter -- only seats in parliament matter) If his question revolves around what the PEOPLE want then he needs to petition for more fair representation per voter --- since the Dems got more votes it would suggest that the people WANTED the Dems. CMF also knows that smaller parties had promised NOT to form a government with PPP, but they did. The only people those smaller parties are answerable to are their voters but this case might suggest that a Recall vote option should be in the constitution. A recall vote would allow voters to call for a new election (only in their constituencies) if their elected representatives failed to adequately represent the voters.

again -- in earlier threads CMF has admitted all this and just uses this argument to sidetrack discussions

Pornsasi --- you gave out bad information about the Dems in the past. The EC moved a case forward on them but the courts did not convict them. (The EC has now forwarded another case to the courts and I expect the same result. The EC does not require the same burden of proof that a court does.)

good try... but nonsense - no point recycling the arguements about MPs switching alliances when voted in for a different agenda, or about banning parties and MPs due to a few individuals (any outher country do this?) - JDinasia knows all this but sticks to his adoration of Abhisit - who will fall eventually...

In the areas for banned MPs, no elections for replacement MPs were made.

For banning MPs and parties, I think it is unthinkable in other countries that MPs openly offers cash money. It is simply unthinkable so no one even knows about the laws. I think in my country new elections would happen and all the wrong doers would be in jail for a long time.

I am as against corruption as you are - so let's ban the Dems too - let's ban them all!

If that what the Democrats did is enough to ban them, than ban them. And if it is necessary to ban every party for the next 10 years than ban them. I don't know enough about the Thai Constitution but in most it is possible that the head of state, The King or the President to let someone else form a (caretaker) government, till the democracy is working again.