Did America Create Pattaya?

[Heng]

Kind of like saying did African Americans create the crack industry? In the end, you'd still have to mostly credit the Colombians, not just the folks cutting holes in their wallets.

[mark45y]

Maybe not created, but more like financed the the construction and provided the consumer base

At the risk of offending all the Vietnam veterans, there is a school of thought that holds that the use of Thailand as an R&R center, while meant to help, served only to create problems and eroded order and discipline within the military. If one looks at past experience of R&R centers in WWII, and the Korean War, although the discipline problems were there, the situation was managed and there was no breakdown of general discipline. The proof is in how foreign militaries treat the process now. One will never see the chronic wild excesses of the Vietnam era today. Always, always maintain discipline in the ranks and places like Pattaya only serve to corrupt and undermine the authority of the command structure.

I'm going to get bashaed for being a canary now.

Geriatrickid I don't want to bash you. But I must point out Pattaya was not an R&R center. I'll repeat that for those of you who didn't see it the first time. Pattaya was not an R&R center.

America did not finance or construct anything in Pattaya. America did not finance anything in Pattaya. It had R&R centers and hotels and clubs in Bangkok but not in Pattaya. America was completely out of Thailand and Vietnam by 1975 and there wasn't anything built in Pattaya in 1975 except a couple of hotels. Google some photos of Pattaya in 1975. Nothing but a dirt road and a few motorbikes.

Do you want to discuss how Sidney being an R&R center completely denigrated the morals of Australia and created a sex Disney world at Kings Cross?

Do you want to talk about Hawaii, the most popular R&R destination for American troops destroying the morals of Waikiki beach? No, of course not because it doesn't fit into your urban folk legend that America created sex tourism in Thailand. It ain't so. It ain't true. It is a folk tale contradicted in writing, photos and by talking to anyone who was here at the time.

Places like Pattaya may or may not undermine the command structure. Historically that might be an interesting discussion but we will never know because Pattaya was never part of the American experience in Vietnam.

You are missing the point of your original post. Your post is specific, BUT, indirectly, The Vietnam War put Thailand on the beach swimming, beer drinking, boom boom map. No on can deny this. Just because Thailand has focused it's infastructure for tourism in certain places, so what? The war put the country on the map as a holiday destination which also provided "adult entertainment." Does it really matter what beach the G.I's swam in back then????

Fact is, they were in Thailand, loved the place, loved the beer, loved the beach, loved the women, went home, told their friends, came back, and that was the start of the tourism/sex trade holiday destination that has evolved to be, Thailand.

I wrote for the US Army. I was stationed at the headquarters of the US Army in Vietnam. I wrote articles about R&R. (For those Vets HQUSARV Long Binh, Yup, in the rear with the gear) The only reason I know anything about Thailand is because I had to go there on army business. What I heard on the ground was the women were hot in Hong Kong but expensive. The women and beer were cheaper in Taipei. What little I did hear about Thailand was about Bangkok and not the beaches. Later I met people who were stationed at U-Tapao and they talked about the beaches at Sattahip. I never met a GI who was at Pattaya in the 1960’s.

There were far more interesting stories about the beaches in Vietnam.

Sex tourism destinations talked about in the US were Costa Rica, Cuba, Brazil and by military types, the Philippines.

You could go swimming and use the beaches anytime in Vietnam. The guys I worked for flew nurses there every weekend.

Thailand was not a big deal for guys in Vietnam.

You might have a hard time understanding what the war in Vietnam was like if you were not there. It took 8 support troops to put one combat troop in the field. That meant the vast majority of military in Vietnam were clerks or technical people who never shot at people, at least not on a regular basis.

I worked long hours but I had a maid to wash my clothes daily. I had a massage two or three times a week with a happy ending. I went to the club nightly and drank free beer and watched movies or played cards. Cigarettes, beer and whiskey were free. There were Korean girl bands in the NCO club nightly. We played volleyball and had steak BBQ’s on the weekend. There were always women around. Bernie the medic kept them healthy. I won’t go into the drug stories but they were very cheap.

So Thailand was no big deal. You said no one can deny they told their friends back home about the beach swimming, beer drinking, boom boom. I never told anyone back home anything about SEA.

When American GI’s got back home people spit on them. People looked at me like I was a crazy baby burner if they found out I was in Vietnam. Employers wouldn’t hire you because they thought you were addicted to drugs.

When my kids asked me about Vietnam do you think I told them I got a haircut and BJ weekly for $2.50. Or than my secretary wasn’t very pretty but she was good in bed.

I would suggest that the tales about Pattaya and Thailand in general were started by Brits and Aussies and spread to America in that order rather than the reverse.

[mark45y]

What could be possible outcome of this Thread; to be able to answer some historical trivial question in a bar?

Is there an important aspect I am missing out on?

The historical significance is one of giving credit where credit is due.

It has been rumored that the sleazy side of Pattaya was the invention of American troops during Vietnam.

Every time someone mentions prostitution in Thailand some wanke_r pops up and says it all started with the Americans in Vietnam.

It is like saying the Chinese invented French bread in Laos. It just didn’t happen.

My point has been that Vietnam was over and all the American troops gone home from Vietnam and Thailand before Pattaya even remotely resembled what it is today.

I think one can make the case that the Aussies started Pattaya. And because of their proximity by air peopled it and provided for the initial impetus that made it what it is today. Following the Aussies the Brits established a major foothold in the businesses of Pattaya providing pub food, draft beer and sports TV.

The Americans were late joiners on the scene because of the long distance involved and the primary American experience with the Philippines which was much more familiar to American ex military personnel.

[geriatrickid]

I think it is important to differentiate between R&R activities involving people aged 18-25 and what goes on in Pattaya today. If one looks at Acapulco, Cancun, Daytona Beach during "spring break" where hordes of horny US and Canadian kids descend on the aforementioned cities, the debauchery if one wants to call it that, is probably far more evident than what went on in Thailand during the 60's & 70's R&R period. I wouldn't have considered the presence of the Australian then the US military personnel to be any different than the spring break situation, because that's what young men (and women) do. All that happened is that Pattaya progressed from a war time "spring break" kind of place to what it is today. Some business people built upon their business model and developed it to what it is today. That legacy is not necessarily evil or bad in its origin. One could argue that Phuket and Penang had similar "tourist" development, just without the jumpstart from servicemen.

Somehow, what young people do is not as disturbing as when some retiree or tourist <deleted> does it. Double standard I suppose, but I guess my point is that being 21 and hanging out with young girls and get pissed up, is "normal" in the sense that it's part of growing up for a lot of people, a phase if you will. I'd be a liar to say I hadn't been in a few strip clubs or sleazy bars back in the day. However, if I hung out in those places today, girls would be creeped out and go ewww what a perv. Thats life. I suspect that Pattaya and other places had more of a fun carefree energy because of the large numbers of physically fit young people. Anyway, just a different angle to consider.

[craigt3365]

America for sure didn't "create" Pattaya. But for sure, GIs came here for R&R during the Vietnam war. I know because I came here 5 years ago with my Father...he told me some crazy stories. He was based in Udon. I dated a gal quite a few years ago whose mother use to dance for the GIs. Made good money doing it...no wonder I met her in Nana! Like mother like daughter...

[mark45y]

Maybe not created, but more like financed the the construction and provided the consumer base

At the risk of offending all the Vietnam veterans, there is a school of thought that holds that the use of Thailand as an R&R center, while meant to help, served only to create problems and eroded order and discipline within the military. If one looks at past experience of R&R centers in WWII, and the Korean War, although the discipline problems were there, the situation was managed and there was no breakdown of general discipline. The proof is in how foreign militaries treat the process now. One will never see the chronic wild excesses of the Vietnam era today. Always, always maintain discipline in the ranks and places like Pattaya only serve to corrupt and undermine the authority of the command structure.

I'm going to get bashaed for being a canary now.

Geriatrickid I don’t want to bash you. But I must point out Pattaya was not an R&R center. I’ll repeat that for those of you who didn’t see it the first time. Pattaya was not an R&R center.

America did not finance or construct anything in Pattaya. America did not finance anything in Pattaya. It had R&R centers and hotels and clubs in Bangkok but not in Pattaya. America was completely out of Thailand and Vietnam by 1975 and there wasn’t anything built in Pattaya in 1975 except a couple of hotels. Google some photos of Pattaya in 1975. Nothing but a dirt road and a few motorbikes.

Do you want to discuss how Sidney being an R&R center completely denigrated the morals of Australia and created a sex Disney world at Kings Cross?

Do you want to talk about Hawaii, the most popular R&R destination for American troops destroying the morals of Waikiki beach? No, of course not because it doesn’t fit into your urban folk legend that America created sex tourism in Thailand. It ain’t so. It ain’t true. It is a folk tale contradicted in writing, photos and by talking to anyone who was here at the time.

Places like Pattaya may or may not undermine the command structure. Historically that might be an interesting discussion but we will never know because Pattaya was never part of the American experience in Vietnam.

You have been rather gentle in your criticism, so I will try and wiggle out of this by stressing I mentioned Thailand. The US servicemen spent alot of money in Thailand. Some savvy business men took those profits and invested in Pattaya. Ok, that's lame, and you can kick my butt for that but here are with some historical facts that I think you will agree with;

- Thailand was probably the most popular destination for overseas R&R. This was due to the "in country" requirements;

Australia (Sydney) 10 months in country

Bangkok 03 months in country

Tokyo 06 1/2 months in country

Hong Kong 03 months in country

Manila 03 months in country

Hawaii 06 months in country

Singapore 03 months in country

Taipei 03 months in country

Let's face it. If you were a kid and you qualifed, where would you have rather gone after 3 months? Taipei is boring today and I shudder to think what it was like in 1969. Apparently, the biggest Thailand R&R Center was at the Windsor Hotel on Suhkumvit 20

Although Hawaii was the most popular destination for R&R, chiefly because it was in the USA, it wasn't wrecked by misbehaving soldiers because Hawaii was intended for the family visits. If I am not mistaken priority was given to married soldiers.

One can be forgiven for thinking there is some linkage between US servicemen and Pattaya because it is included in multiple tourist guidebooks;

In about 1959 Pattaya started to expand into a resort for visiting American GIs from a base in Nakhon Ratchasima with plenty of money to spend. US navy men from nearby Sattahip, particularly during the Vietnam war, enabled great expansion of facilities available to visiting forces by local entrepreneurs, and Pattaya became an official centre of ‘Rest and Relaxation’ for American troops. They were flown into U-Tapao airport, which was built for American use at the time, and hotel accommodation, shops, bars and services in Pattaya grew rapidly due to the increasing demand.

From One Stop Pattaya

Before the war, Pattaya was a quiet fishing village, with thatch housing, palm trees and beautiful beaches. It was, and is, a beautiful spot! Understandably, Pattaya became a magnet for lonely GIs, and as one would expect, for enterprising entrepreneurs whose services involved all forms of sexual activity. Today, Pattaya continues to be a well-visited resort city, on the Gulf of Thailand. Its popularity is primarily due to the nightlife it offers. When the Vietnam War ended in 1975, the clientele that frequented Thailand's nightlife simply changed from military personnel to men of many nationalities.

From Hoteltravel.com;

n 1950, Pattaya was still little other than a small fishing village. It regained popularity with the armed forces in 1959 when a group of American GI’s visited for R&R. After renting a house on the beach, spending an enjoyable time with the locals, they returned and the word was out…Pattaya was “The” place to holiday.

New groups of Marines arrived and it is from this simple beginning that the city grew. In just 40 odd years it has developed into one of the most renowned of all Thailand’s holiday spots, locally, and world wide.

The information from one stop Pattaya is not correct. A few of the errors are; 1. Pattaya was never an official R&R center. 2. US troops were never flown into U-Tapao for R&R. They went to Bangkok. 3. There was no R&R in 1959 it didn’t start till 1965. There were less than 1000 troops in Vietnam in 59 and 60.

I don’t know why a website would fabricate such a story. I think reading this thread and looking at the Aussie photos gives a better impression of what really was happening.

If you google, Newland, or Sattahip and dates or the “brotherhood”. You can get a better idea of what was going on.

The image of sex starved American troops rushing into Thailand is a bit far fetched. Most Americans in Vietnam were hardly sex starved. Conservative estimates put the number of prostitutes in Saigon in 1964 at 50,000. There were only 25,000 American troops in Vietnam in 1964. It rose dramatically in 65 and 66 to over 200,000 but there were still lots of girls to go around.

Vietnam holds the record for the largest brothel in the world years before the Americans got there.

I went to Hawaii for R&R during Christmas 1969. I was the lowest rank on the airplane. With the exception of me the lowest rank was major. R&R like everything else in the army was based on rank.

I went to Taipei too. Taipei wasn’t boring in 1969 it was frightening. Air raid sirens going off every day and a lot of gangsters around. At least the places I went.

At the height of the Vietnam war there were 500,000 troops there. Realistically speaking you got one R&R every 12 months. Also there were troops rotating out or on leave for reenlisting. With the options for in country R&R and emergency staffing problems there were probably 10,000 GI’s available for R&R during any given week. Divide that by the 10 available alternative R&R sites and double it for the popularity of Bangkok and you get about 2000 GI’s going to Thailand in any given week. Not a very big number coming to Thailand let alone finding out about Pattaya a little known fishing village.

[p_brownstone]

I came here in 1971 and in those days Pattaya was mostly popiular with resident Expats - many individuals - and even some of the Companies here - had their own Bungalows on beaches like Wong Amart.

There were 2 hotels - Nipa Hut and another ................ I think the name was Pattaya Palace.

There was very little Nightlife as I recall, mainly restaurants like Dolf Riks and Barbos etc., and very few GI type visitors

I am not sure when the place really "took off" but I think it was the advent of "Tour Group" type tourism in the late '70's / early '80's .

Patrick

[longball53098]

The Pattaya I remember in 1966 is not what anyone here is trying to make it. IMHO Pattaya today was not "created" by America and the American GI. For those of us who lived and worked at Utapao in 66' it was a weekend getaway and a beautiful change of scenery from the Buffs and KCs.

Someone said we did not build or support anything at Pattaya. I guess I disagree with that as there was a small Post Exchange store and a small resort of sorts that we could stay in across the road from the beach. A civilian we worked with was making the"big" bucks in those days so he rented a beach bungalow where we had big parties on the weekends. My old memory does not remember any bars other than Barbos on the beach at what I think is Walking Street now. I did my first ever water skiing there. Some people say that there was a hotel where the Nova Lodge is now but I have no memory of this at all

There was not hoards of any GIs running around and there were not more than 3 or 4 really shoddy bars. We did rent motor bikes even then and drink and do crazy stuff. All the real woman action was in Bangkok on Petchburi Road where all the Go-Gos and massage shops were and Patpong was an upscale area for the richer airline types and officers.

As said in another post I don't think many GIs talked about Pattaya when they got back to the world and most forgot about the whole area. It was not a hub of R&R activity except maybe a place for the local "in country GI" to come and get some beach time. For me it was a time period in my life that's nice to remember and well look at me now,,,,,,I live a stones throw from where I was 40 some years ago. I'm not trying to re-live those memories just enjoy retirement.

[craigt3365]

The Pattaya I remember in 1966 is not what anyone here is trying to make it. IMHO Pattaya today was not "created" by America and the American GI. For those of us who lived and worked at Utapao in 66' it was a weekend getaway and a beautiful change of scenery from the Buffs and KCs.

Someone said we did not build or support anything at Pattaya. I guess I disagree with that as there was a small Post Exchange store and a small resort of sorts that we could stay in across the road from the beach. A civilian we worked with was making the"big" bucks in those days so he rented a beach bungalow where we had big parties on the weekends. My old memory does not remember any bars other than Barbos on the beach at what I think is Walking Street now. I did my first ever water skiing there. Some people say that there was a hotel where the Nova Lodge is now but I have no memory of this at all

There was not hoards of any GIs running around and there were not more than 3 or 4 really shoddy bars. We did rent motor bikes even then and drink and do crazy stuff. All the real woman action was in Bangkok on Petchburi Road where all the Go-Gos and massage shops were and Patpong was an upscale area for the richer airline types and officers.

As said in another post I don't think many GIs talked about Pattaya when they got back to the world and most forgot about the whole area. It was not a hub of R&R activity except maybe a place for the local "in country GI" to come and get some beach time. For me it was a time period in my life that's nice to remember and well look at me now,,,,,,I live a stones throw from where I was 40 some years ago. I'm not trying to re-live those memories just enjoy retirement.

It must have been really beautiful back then...you were very lucky...

[kenallday]

I'm afraid the USA story about starting Pattaya of is wrong - It was in fact discovered by The Black Watch who were over in 1858 on leave from a secret mission in Indochina, the opened a bar and a Hotel and started the bar fine system in 1860 around 10pm one Friday night. Some of the locals mistook the kilted men for Women and copied them which later developed into lady boys. So as usual with most things it was invented by The Scottish

[kopite]

I'm afraid the USA story about starting Pattaya of is wrong - It was in fact discovered by The Black Watch who were over in 1858 on leave from a secret mission in Indochina, the opened a bar and a Hotel and started the bar fine system in 1860 around 10pm one Friday night. Some of the locals mistook the kilted men for Women and copied them which later developed into lady boys. So as usual with most things it was invented by The Scottish

nice one

[hawthorne]

All things evil deride from america:

If you believe Pattya is a bad place or turned into a stink hole - then USA gets the blame with later help from Russia.

If you feel Pattya is a wonderfull place and a great idea - England/Oz/Nz get the credit.

If you liked it a few years ago and now do not like - the Russins did it

anything else is pure speculation

[Diablo Bob]

So OP are you saying that the Americans who visited Pattaya early 60's whilst serving in Vietnam never promoted Pattaya.?.

One ref I read wrote that Americans visited Pattaya as early as 1961, so I wouldnt say Americans were late arrivals to Pattaya.

By the way in a previous post I wrote...

I would'nt say America created Pattaya but I suppose they helped it grow and become more known.

The above is still my opinion.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. There were no US troops in Thailand in the early 60's and almost no US troops in Vietnam during the early 60's. And there was nothing in Pattaya in the early 60's. There was no R&R till 1965 and it was never in Pattaya. Pattaya started being a boom town more than 5 years after the Vietnam war was over and all of the Americans had left SEA.

Sorry you are wrong. The only troops in Pattaya in the early 60's were from Australia.

Sorry, wrong!

US Military (JUSMAG) had a base in Bangkok over by Lumpini Park in 1961 and JUSMAG also had approximately 20 bungaloes in Pattaya in 1961....

I know, I used to eat at the caffeteria at JUSMAG and go to the Pattaya bungaloes as a kid.

I do agree about no R&R center in Pattaya, but in 1963, the Federal Hotel on Sukhumvitt Soi 11 was an R&R hotel for the US Military. You have to understand that eventhough the Vietnam War technically started in 1965, the US had "Advisors" in Vietnam since 1954, when the French got kicked out.....

Edited April 23, 2010 by Diablo Bob

[mouse]

So OP are you saying that the Americans who visited Pattaya early 60's whilst serving in Vietnam never promoted Pattaya.?.

One ref I read wrote that Americans visited Pattaya as early as 1961, so I wouldnt say Americans were late arrivals to Pattaya.

By the way in a previous post I wrote...

I would'nt say America created Pattaya but I suppose they helped it grow and become more known.

The above is still my opinion.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. There were no US troops in Thailand in the early 60's and almost no US troops in Vietnam during the early 60's. And there was nothing in Pattaya in the early 60's. There was no R&R till 1965 and it was never in Pattaya. Pattaya started being a boom town more than 5 years after the Vietnam war was over and all of the Americans had left SEA.

Sorry you are wrong. The only troops in Pattaya in the early 60's were from Australia.

Sorry, wrong!

US Military (JUSMAG) had a base in Bangkok over by Lumpini Park in 1961 and JUSMAG also had approximately 20 bungaloes in Pattaya in 1961....

I know, I used to eat at the caffeteria at JUSMAG and go to the Pattaya bungaloes as a kid.

I do agree about no R&R center in Pattaya, but in 1963, the Federal Hotel on Sukhumvitt Soi 11 was an R&R hotel for the US Military. You have to understand that eventhough the Vietnam War technically started in 1965, the US had "Advisors" in Vietnam since 1954, when the French got kicked out.....

Correct and JUSMAG is stilll in Bangkok today. As for Pattaya, I was there in 1971 when it was a small village on the beach while on R&R from Vietnam.

Edited April 23, 2010 by mouse

[mark45y]

So OP are you saying that the Americans who visited Pattaya early 60's whilst serving in Vietnam never promoted Pattaya.?.

One ref I read wrote that Americans visited Pattaya as early as 1961, so I wouldnt say Americans were late arrivals to Pattaya.

By the way in a previous post I wrote...

I would'nt say America created Pattaya but I suppose they helped it grow and become more known.

The above is still my opinion.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. There were no US troops in Thailand in the early 60's and almost no US troops in Vietnam during the early 60's. And there was nothing in Pattaya in the early 60's. There was no R&R till 1965 and it was never in Pattaya. Pattaya started being a boom town more than 5 years after the Vietnam war was over and all of the Americans had left SEA.

Sorry you are wrong. The only troops in Pattaya in the early 60's were from Australia.

Sorry, wrong!

US Military (JUSMAG) had a base in Bangkok over by Lumpini Park in 1961 and JUSMAG also had approximately 20 bungaloes in Pattaya in 1961....

I know, I used to eat at the caffeteria at JUSMAG and go to the Pattaya bungaloes as a kid.

I do agree about no R&R center in Pattaya, but in 1963, the Federal Hotel on Sukhumvitt Soi 11 was an R&R hotel for the US Military. You have to understand that eventhough the Vietnam War technically started in 1965, the US had "Advisors" in Vietnam since 1954, when the French got kicked out.....

I stand corrected. For those who didn't know, taken from their website JUSMAGTHAI, is the U.S. Security Assistance Organization in Thailand, as well as the in country OPR for all U.S. bilateral and multilateral military exercises and operations conducted in Thailand. The Chief of JUSMAGTHAI is the U.S. Defense Representative (USDR) in Thailand. In addition to its military chain of command, JUSMAGTHAI is also responsible to the U.S. Ambassador to Thailand. Unlike most SAOs, JUSMAGTHAI has primary responsibility, or otherwise directly supports, a variety of missions. These include a robust Joint Combined bilateral Exercise Program (averaging over 40 exercises a year), one of the largest International Military Education and Training (IMET) programs in the world, Humanitarian Demining, and Counterdrug missions.

Also I must say that reading about JUSMAGTHAI I learned there were more American troops in Thailand during the early 60's than I had realized. Not a lot but more than I had know about. Still no R&R in Pattaya though.

Edited April 23, 2010 by mark45y

[Utterlyuseful]

would be interesting to know what kind of entertainment areas the japanese used when they occupied bangkok during ww2....thye used "comfort" women in other countries......who knows maybe they started Pattaya!

Edited April 23, 2010 by Utterlyuseful

[MB1]

Also I must say that reading about JUSMAGTHAI I learned there were more American troops in Thailand during the early 60's than I had realized. Not a lot but more than I had know about. Still no R&R in Pattaya though.

So now we can agree that there were American troops stationed in Thailand early 60's, and we can also agree that there were American troops/servicemen in Pattaya early 60's according to Diablo bobs post, but is it fabrication from many websites that around 100 troops were in Pattaya in 1961 for "Relaxation" as many websites actually support this story, whilst it may not have been what we actually term R&R today, I'd say it's a pretty close thing "Relaxation" and was the beginning of troops taking their R&R in Pattaya.

Edited April 23, 2010 by MB1

[Loz]

I never heard of Frank Lucas going to Pattaya... nor any of his kin. And they were HEAVILY invested in Thailand at the time in question.

Seems they were more interested in points north

[CHdiver]

There are some foot and hand prints on Koh Sak from high ranking and famous People, think from the 60`s or 70`s . Name, foot and Handprint including date. Will have a look when I dive there next time. But I think to remember that there is one or two from US Generals too.

[JackHughes]

I first visited Pattaya in 1990 and there was already a large German presence there then regarding Bars/Restaurants and tourists. When did they start to arrive on the scene?

[IMA_FARANG]

Pattaya prior to 1970....no one ever heard of it.

I was in Vietnam in July 1966...the R&R everyone wanted to take then was to Hawaii or to Austraila. (we said the girls were round-eyes versus slant-eyes in those two places). If you went to Thailand, you went to Bangkok. Pattaya was a little seaside fishing village then.

Somewhat later on there were U.S.military stationed in Utapao and in Korat or NKP...far more went there than ever went to Pattaya.

People who went to Thailand went to Bangkok....very few ever got outside of Bangkok in their week long R&R.

In fact, I think the backpackers and the "hippes" (so-called) did more to make Pattaya known after 1970 than did the U.S. military. I don't remember when the U.S. Navy statrted liberty/port calls in Pattaya...but I don't think it ws ubtil after 1973...when most of the U.S. military troops had left Vietnam.

Does anyone remember when Phuket was a "hippie hangout" with nud_e beaches? I recall the "Lonely PLanet" guide to Thailand talking about Phuket and the full nud_e beaches and drugs scene there around 1970 or so. In fact the locals became so angry that a lot of the "hippies" left Phuket du to the fisherman complaining about them.

But as for Pattaya, I don't remember hearing much about prior to around 1970.

[dabhand]

I first visited Pattaya back in 1981. Had been working in Saudi for a year or so and heard from other expats about this 'interesting' location.

No real recollection of which nationalities were the main players at that time but was aware that a fair number were similarly on R&R from the Middle East, including a fair few arabs.

Perhaps part of the reason for the Pattaya upswing has it's 'roots' in the Middle East oil bonanza starting in the mid 70's.

[mark45y]

Also I must say that reading about JUSMAGTHAI I learned there were more American troops in Thailand during the early 60's than I had realized. Not a lot but more than I had know about. Still no R&R in Pattaya though.

So now we can agree that there were American troops stationed in Thailand early 60's, and we can also agree that there were American troops/servicemen in Pattaya early 60's according to Diablo bobs post, but is it fabrication from many websites that around 100 troops were in Pattaya in 1961 for "Relaxation" as many websites actually support this story, whilst it may not have been what we actually term R&R today, I'd say it's a pretty close thing "Relaxation" and was the beginning of troops taking their R&R in Pattaya.

JUSMAGTHAI that Diablo bob refers to were Americans stationed in Thailand in Bangkok. He also says there was no R&R center in Pattaya. He also mentions he was a child at the time. Hardly likely for a child to go to an R&R place. All of the other posters who were stationed in Thailand or here on R&R confirm that they didn't know about Pattaya other than it was a fishing village and spent their R&R in Bangkok. I have only heard of one website that makes the erroneous assumption about Pattaya and R&R.

I am more than willing to admit that American troops went to many areas in Thailand for R&R. Bangkok and the Sattahip area are two that I know about. And I am sure around the other bases up north. But not Pattaya. Like everyone has posted until well after the Americans left it was nothing more than a sleepy little village with two hotels and some beach houses. Nothing remotely like one finds there today.

But I am more than willing to ask Diablo bob if he thinks 100 soldiers during 1961 would have gone to Pattaya for bars and broads or anytime during the 1960's. Why? An hour down the road in either direction would supply all the women and entertainment that one wanted. Why would you have gone to Pattaya? There were beaches at Sattahip and women a stones throw away. Dare I repeat myself the beer at a military facility was a fraction of the cost as on the open market. It just does not make sense for a GI to debauch in Pattaya during that time frame.

[tim73]

I first visited Pattaya back in 1981. Had been working in Saudi for a year or so and heard from other expats about this 'interesting' location.

No real recollection of which nationalities were the main players at that time but was aware that a fair number were similarly on R&R from the Middle East, including a fair few arabs. Perhaps part of the reason for the Pattaya upswing has it's 'roots' in the Middle East oil bonanza starting in the mid 70's.

Americans definitely contributed a lot to the development of Pattaya. Pattaya is a quite nice place nowadays and it has plenty of everything, especially the restaurants are improving fast. The best part is that you can mix it up with local foods. Of course culture purists are against "mixing" but that is why New York is also know as New Fork Every nationality brought something into the town. Russians are the latest development, maybe followed by new wave of rich Asians. For more, Thais are more used to us "stupid" farangs in Pattaya, making all kinds of goofy things.

[PoorSucker]

[Diablo Bob]

Also I must say that reading about JUSMAGTHAI I learned there were more American troops in Thailand during the early 60's than I had realized. Not a lot but more than I had know about. Still no R&R in Pattaya though.

So now we can agree that there were American troops stationed in Thailand early 60's, and we can also agree that there were American troops/servicemen in Pattaya early 60's according to Diablo bobs post, but is it fabrication from many websites that around 100 troops were in Pattaya in 1961 for "Relaxation" as many websites actually support this story, whilst it may not have been what we actually term R&R today, I'd say it's a pretty close thing "Relaxation" and was the beginning of troops taking their R&R in Pattaya.

JUSMAGTHAI that Diablo bob refers to were Americans stationed in Thailand in Bangkok. He also says there was no R&R center in Pattaya. He also mentions he was a child at the time. Hardly likely for a child to go to an R&R place. All of the other posters who were stationed in Thailand or here on R&R confirm that they didn't know about Pattaya other than it was a fishing village and spent their R&R in Bangkok. I have only heard of one website that makes the erroneous assumption about Pattaya and R&R.

I am more than willing to admit that American troops went to many areas in Thailand for R&R. Bangkok and the Sattahip area are two that I know about. And I am sure around the other bases up north. But not Pattaya. Like everyone has posted until well after the Americans left it was nothing more than a sleepy little village with two hotels and some beach houses. Nothing remotely like one finds there today.

But I am more than willing to ask Diablo bob if he thinks 100 soldiers during 1961 would have gone to Pattaya for bars and broads or anytime during the 1960's. Why? An hour down the road in either direction would supply all the women and entertainment that one wanted. Why would you have gone to Pattaya? There were beaches at Sattahip and women a stones throw away. Dare I repeat myself the beer at a military facility was a fraction of the cost as on the open market. It just does not make sense for a GI to debauch in Pattaya during that time frame.

For the most part, the JUSMAG Bungaloes were used by Officers and US Government Civilians and their families. My father was with the US Navy OICC, involved in the construction of U-Tapau, Sattahip, Takli, Udon, Ubon and Chiangmai facilities from 1960-1967. Isn't it interesting how the US new these facilities were needed almost 5 years before the Gulf of Tonkin incident.......

The night area in Bangkok was on Petchburi Rd., not Patpong, Nana or Soi Cowboy. I wasn't that young!

[mark45y]

To sum up posts by people who experienced Pattaya in the 60’s and 70’s I think I am fair by characterizing the comments as it was a small fishing village. It was not an American R&R center. It saw very few American troops on R&R and when they were there it was for beach time alone or with their families as opposed to debauchery.

Padfoot says, “my R&R was spent in Bangkok in 1968. Did not know Pattaya existed.

Nignoy says, “ Aussies and Brits had an R&R camp on Pattaya beach. First bar and brothel opened in April 1964.

Ronz28 says, “I worked in Bangkok from 68-70 and Pattaya was hardly on the map. ……If Americans built Pattaya as it is now, it was top secret. Everyone wanted to be in Bangkok then.”

P_brownstone says, “I came here in 1971 and in those days Pattaya was mostly popiular with resident Expats - many individuals - and even some of the Companies here - had their own Bungalows on beaches like Wong Amart. ,,,There were 2 hotels - Nipa Hut and another ................ I think the name was Pattaya Palace.

There was very little Nightlife as I recall, mainly restaurants like Dolf Riks and Barbos etc., and very few GI type visitors.”

Longball53098 says, “The Pattaya I remember in 1966 is not what anyone here is trying to make it. IMHO Pattaya today was not "created" by America and the American GI. For those of us who lived and worked at Utapao in 66' it was a weekend getaway and a beautiful change of scenery from the Buffs and KCs. …..

There was not hoards of any GIs running around and there were not more than 3 or 4 really shoddy bars. ….As said in another post I don't think many GIs talked about Pattaya when they got back to the world and most forgot about the whole area. It was not a hub of R&R activity except maybe a place for the local "in country GI" to come and get some beach time.”

Mouse says, “I was there in 1971 when it was a small village on the beach while on R&R from Vietnam. “

Diablo bob says, “For the most part, the JUSMAG Bungaloes (Pattaya) were used by Officers and US Government Civilians and their families.”

[Nignoy]

At last!! really lots of information has come to light about the birth of pattaya, the only time we visit these days is whenvisitors or guests express the wishto go and have a gander,remember barbo,s bar quite well from my last visit in january 66,if I can find it will hang a photo on the end of this thread,let us face it now one can be blamed for the state of pattaya and the surrounding coast but it really is nice to remember it without concrete, and methinks some times the good old days were exactly that, just a question for all you Vietnam Vets!! now I definitely left thailand for singapore and UK on the 27/5/1966,why was there a Green beret Sgt by the name of Barry sadler singing vietnam songs in the bars of Ubon in 1965 and to my amazement in a px in frankfurt 12 months later I was able to purchase his new LP, Ballads of the Green Berets also released later as songs of our fighting men,silly me all this time thinking the gulf of tonking incident had only just happened dont forget sunday morning chaps !!dawn service at the War memorial (Anzac Day) then back to the Rsl for the 3B,s at the Rsl. Lest we forget!!

[Spee]

Cool thread! Thanks for the stories all!

[anothertorres]

Al Gore first came to Pattaya back in 1942 and set up the first telecom lines paving the way to what we know today as "the interweb". 1942. it was a tumultuous year.