Thai Army Tells Red Shirts To Disperse From Rally Base

[TheItaliann]

It seems as though the government is just dragging its feet here.

1. Army crackdown failed and 20 people killed.

2. EC recommends Dem's dissolution.

3. The 2 previous mass protests by PAD resulted in 1. Military Coup 2. EC Ruling in favor of Protesters.

It seems like elections would be favorable to a civil war.

[basjke]

As said earlier, yellows getting involved has raised the stakes a LOT for the government and I really wish they didn't try to pressure government into something that would make things a lot worse.

It is now a choice between using force to disperse protesters, fearing a major backclash later, or letting 2 armed mobs to take each other on in the middle of the tourist/financial district.

Don't think either of them carries a low headcount, with second option possibly higher.

I would opt for let the 2 mobs clean it up themselves but they should lock them both in so that neither of them can run away.Problem solved for once and always

Unfortunately, considering where the 2 mobs are located, that would be like letting 2 elephants fighting inside a porcelain store...

You cant clean thoroughly without breaking something.

Edited April 22, 2010 by basjke

[TheItaliann]

having said that, there will be a civil war soon if the government does not take action against this unruly protest.

i said it before and i will say it again, arrest the leaders inciting violence and restore the normalcy in Bangkok ASAP!

That strategy has worked wonders in Iraq and the South of Thailand. What's gonna solve this problem? Diplomacy? Nah. Military crackdowns. Yawn...

PAD had their turn, give the Reds theirs, hold an election, get on with our lives.

[LuckyFive8888]

having said that, there will be a civil war soon if the government does not take action against this unruly protest.

i said it before and i will say it again, arrest the leaders inciting violence and restore the normalcy in Bangkok ASAP!

That strategy has worked wonders in Iraq and the South of Thailand. What's gonna solve this problem? Diplomacy? Nah. Military crackdowns. Yawn...

PAD had their turn, give the Reds theirs, hold an election, get on with our lives.

of course, then there should be election once the situation stabilised.

[ding]

I think Abhisit is not stupid. He's giving the situation time and will let the Reds provoke a justifiable strong clean up operation. My sympathies for all Thai people, especially those who have been duped.

[warfie]

Honestly when you sober up and read what you vomited above you are going to feel like a knob....

Please keep these comments coming TJ. I'm sure that I speak for all here, in saying that your visionary responses and brilliant intellect help us all to understand the true reasoning that underpins the yellow philosophy.

Now may I humbly submit this to your kind consideration: In making the above statement, was I:

a) complementing you on your incisive wit and uncanny ability to get straight to the point? or,

c) pointing out that your arguments might lack substance? or

d) telling you that you come across like an inarticulate oaf - that your shouting down of others while offering nothing sensible in return is a good eaxmple of how the yellow mentality of coercion works?

D

[warfie]

Oh give over. But I suppose that there is nothing else that you can say when faced with irrefutable facts like the chronology of events.

You dismiss as irrelevant the fact that your PAD yellow heroes did indeed start this whole mob rule thing. I assume you knwo what the word 'start' means - just in case you don't, it means that the yellows took to the streets before the reds even existed. The yellows overthrew a democratically elected civilian government, and they were allowed to get away with it. People on the other side detest them for that, a hatred which is manifested in what is happening on the streets of Bangkok and elsewhere in Thailand at the moment.

Why doesn't Abhisit hold an election, get a legitimate public mandate, and then use it to confound the reds? I'll tell you why - he would lose an election, because people simply don't like him enough for him to keep his job democratically. He is seen by the majority (i.e. the whole country - not just Bangkok) as not understanding them and failing to represent their best interests, and they think he sucks for that.

The only way that Abhisit can keep the seat that he stole is by hiding like a craven-hearted coward, while killing his own people and splittig the country in half. I look forward to seeing him pay for it.

Clockworkorange. Finally a comment from someone with a brain. Thanks.

question that... try using a spell checker before questioning someone else's intellect...

[LuckyFive8888]

The competitive publication has an article on how redshirts are unwelcome in Silom area, that shops refuse to cater them.

I've found a more strange site today though, with a group of young people was browsing through stuff at the shop and discussing where it was made, then refusing to buy it because it was from the north.

Even basic stuff like Aura water was put back on the shelves, while they walked out with EVIAN.

Was that a lone incident or is this the start of boycott of northern made products in Bangkok? That would be the end of OTOP and possibly could bring domestic economy to its knees...

there are many things being discussed in thai forums and most of the members (in the forum) are bangkokians, it will not be surprising that they will actually despise anything from the north/northeast now that they have been losing their patience with the reds.

[commons]

to mods:

shut down this thread. 1 person died. 75+ injured.

& ppl still feel incited to spill opinion.

shut down this thread.

Why?

to calm down. to step back. to allow grievance for loss - instead of going on, going on, going on, "i'm right, you're wong" etc

[whiterussian]

crikey, this blog is a guy on twitter.. has a video of himself getting shot!

http://www.vaitor.com/?p=1501

his tweets are here: http://twitter.com/vaitor

Edited April 22, 2010 by whiterussian

[warfie]

Oh give over. But I suppose that there is nothing else that you can say when faced with irrefutable facts like the chronology of events.

You dismiss as irrelevant the fact that your PAD yellow heroes did indeed start this whole mob rule thing. I assume you knwo what the word 'start' means - just in case you don't, it means that the yellows took to the streets before the reds even existed. The yellows overthrew a democratically elected civilian government, and they were allowed to get away with it. People on the other side detest them for that, a hatred which is manifested in what is happening on the streets of Bangkok and elsewhere in Thailand at the moment.

Why doesn't Abhisit hold an election, get a legitimate public mandate, and then use it to confound the reds? I'll tell you why - he would lose an election, because people simply don't like him enough for him to keep his job democratically. He is seen by the majority (i.e. the whole country - not just Bangkok) as not understanding them and failing to represent their best interests, and they think he sucks for that.

The only way that Abhisit can keep the seat that he stole is by hiding like a craven-hearted coward, while killing his own people and splittig the country in half. I look forward to seeing him pay for it.

Clockworkorange. Finally a comment from someone with a brain. Thanks.

question that... try using a spell checker before questioning someone else's intellect...

[HardenedSoul]

Paint ball guns could put a swift end to this stand off. Green, yellow, blue, orange....no one will know who's who.

LOL - That would be great. The world's biggest paintball fight!

Seriously though, can somebody tell me why the army and Police can't go in with just riot gear, baton's, and shields and physically move people? Why is there the need for the soldiers to arm themselves with anything resembling a firearm, be it rubber bullets or live ammo? If they can man-handle people on to the big mobile lock-up trucks that are everywhere, then surely that would be a start, wouldn't it?

that sort of thing used to happen every saturday afternoon outside most football stadiums in the UK, but without the Army!

Good Lord!!

Did this guy really just ask that ??!!

[whiterussian]

PAD / Multicolour / No-colour / Purple Peace People / anarchist / terrorist / I-love-Thailand-more-than-you / freedom fighter / .... with what appears to be an improvised flame thrower to burn down the red fort

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/2...-britons-warned

Edited April 22, 2010 by whiterussian

[shawndoc]

What's he holding on to. One hand looks like it has a water bottle, but what's that in the other? Looks like liquid spraying out of it.

[whiterussian]

What's he holding on to. One hand looks like it has a water bottle, but what's that in the other? Looks like liquid spraying out of it.

Not sure, but seems to tie in with this report:

edit: could tie in with...

-------

http://twitter.com/photo_journ

#yellowshirts have what appears to b a homemade flame thrower

about 4 hours ago via Seesmic

-------

or it could be an extinguisher!

I do hope the powers that be have plans for dealing with fires. Hate to see this turn into a Waco.

If this isnt serious enough for foreign/unbiased election supervision, I dont know what is!

Come on Thailand, you can't lose any more face than this! How about the Japanese!?

(as long as they dont do a Fujimori!)

Edited April 22, 2010 by whiterussian

[4223rhodes]

Looks like the Army is yellow tinted towards its top and deeply Red at the base. Let's hope the base can energize itself and stomp out Abhisit and his corrupt cronnies!

You, and your posts, are becoming monotonously tedious.

Listen, Scruffy, there are 564 post so far and they are all monotonously tedious. Don't give me all the credit!

[LuckyFive8888]

Looks like the Army is yellow tinted towards its top and deeply Red at the base. Let's hope the base can energize itself and stomp out Abhisit and his corrupt cronnies!

You, and your posts, are becoming monotonously tedious.

Listen, Scruffy, there are 564 post so far and they are all monotonously tedious. Don't give me all the credit!

what is this shit? they could be fake yellows...reds

[multistar28]

Flashpoint Silom April 22, 2010 Thursday, 08:22 AM Nirmal Ghosh witnesses a possible sign of things to come 1am, Thursday : I got to Sala Daeng yesterday (Wed) afternoon, and made my way to the Au Bon Pain cafe right next to the Dusit Thani hotel, at the corner of the intersection across from the Red Shirt barricades next to Lumpini Park.

A couple of hundred pro-government demonstrators were gathered on the sidewalk outside waving Thai flags and yelling at the Red Shirts. There were police making sure they stayed clear of the road to let traffic through. More police were lined up at the side gate to the Dusit. But passions seemed high on the part of the flag-waving pro-government crowd, and their numbers were steadily growing. Sensing the mood, I tweeted that Sala Daeng was an accident waiting to happen.

Later, I watched it unfold. There was little satisfaction in having been right.

I had made a round of the Red Shirt barricades by then. Behind the bristling bamboo and car tyre barricade some four to five metres high, the Red Shirts were roaming around with bamboo staves, some of them sharpened. One seemed to have arrows. Others seemed to be making slingshots.

I was told by journalist friends that they had chilli powder mixtures as well though I didn’t see any. I didn’t see any firearms. At one point a big BMW pulled up and reversed behind the barricade and a uniformed chauffeur got out, opened the boot and started unloading food. Another time, a pickup truck came by and Red Shirts on the truck hurled big plastic bags full of styrofoam-packed food high into the barricade where they were grabbed by eager hands and distributed. Many motorists wound down windows as they passed and cheered the Red Shirts.

I made my way back to the other side of the street and hunkered down in the Au Bon Pain and wrote my first report while the yelling outside grew more and more hysterical. Then the cafe finally decided to close early, and I shifted to the business centre at the Dusit and wrote my second report. When I was done, around 8.30pm, I went back out and joined other journalists watching the drama unfold.

The mood among the pro-government crowd became more and more ragged, with a couple of passing red-shirted taxi drivers having their cabs bashed. But around 10pm, the mood appeared to settle as many people left. I was on the point of heading home when some rowdy men began to get out of hand, running out into the intersection threateningly.

I saw the precise moment when the riot started. At around 11pm, some of the pro-government demonstrators were running out into the intersection taunting the Reds, and then one finally let fly with a large stone. That of course was the signal for a barrage of stones and bottles from the pro-government mob.

Only about 20 or so were involved, but it was enough to create tremendous chaos. Glass shattered on the street and rocks cracked and bounced as they went for the Reds – who retaliated with rocks and slingshots of their own but held their line and did not come charging out.

Meanwhile cross-traffic was still flowing, crunching over the rocks and broken glass. I wonder if some of the cars were hit as they crossed between the battling sides.

The Reds vastly outnumbered the pro-government protestors, but held their ground. The pro-government men periodically surged out into the intersection to throw missiles at the barricades. Some hung back, crouching in the shrubbery on the verge, aiming carefully and letting loose with slingshots – deadly when fired with small ball bearings or marbles.

All the while, police deployed on the ground, and soldiers on the pedestrian overpass above, did absolutely nothing to stop or separate the two sides. In fact the police even moved one of their trucks out of the way of the rampaging pro-government men.

A Thai man dressed in a white shirt spoke to me as we took cover behind a wall, with rocks flying around us. "What do you think Thais should do?" he asked me. It was a difficult question. I thought for a moment and said "Sit down and talk about the issues".

He looked sad and then told me that "Thais only learn when many people are killed".

Seconds later, a large Thai man in ordinary clothing translated a sign lying on the sidewalk which proclaimed that Red Shirts were goons in the pay of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra. Then he put his arm around me and led me away and whispered in my ear "I am Red Shirt".

He said he was a taxi drover, and the pro-government men were from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), the formerly yellow-clad right-wing group that closed down three airports in 2008 to paralyse the pro-Thaksin government of the time, paving the way for its fall which eventually came through a court decision to disband it because one of its executives had cheated in the last election. That paved the way for the Democrat Party to take power.

It is obvious to independent observers that the so-called "no colour" or "multi-colour" crowds that have emerged lately, are largely the PAD in a different form. They have been urging the government to crack down on the Red Shirts of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), and have even threatened to do it themselves if the government and army did not.

They certainly tried at Sala Daeng, though not in force. But the Reds were fairly disciplined and thankfully the riot did not escalate into a full-blown fight. At least twice, the Red Shirts fired firecrackers at the pro-government men who ran helter skelter, but returned to pelt them with stones. The men were banging paving stones on the hard concrete to break them into smaller pieces. One young man ran past me with a sack full of empty bottles, heading for the fight.

At one point a foreigner who appeared to be a tourist, wearing black clothes but with a red armband, was roughed up by the pro-government men, but some among them got him away. That was at around 1145pm and seemed to trigger the police into action.

They formed a double line at the top of the road facing the pro-government crowd, which included some women who were hurling rocks and bottles as much as the men. The arrival of the police seemed to embolden them and they started screaming abuses at the Reds – insulting Thai terms like "hia" – monitor lizard – and "khwai" – buffalo, a common insult used by a certain section of the Bangkokian middle classes against rural people from the north-east, where most of the Reds are from.

The police then turned around and faced towards the Reds, which came as a bit of a surprise. But two big police trucks finally showed up then and parked right in front of the police lines, and then the violence seemed to peter out a bit.

The interesting part of the evening was that the police and soldiers did nothing to stop the pro-government crowd, which incidentally was also, like the Reds, in violation of the Emergency Decree which prohibits assembly of more than five people. Yet they were allowed to assemble and yell at the Reds in a gradual escalation all afternoon, which finally exploded at night with the police and soldiers simply looking on.

Sala Daeng was and could be the flashpoint, which will see Thais battling Thais in this divided country that appears to many, to be sliding into a civil war. The right-wingers say they are fighting for the nation and the King. The Red Shirts – from the same nation – say they are fighting for their democratic right to have an election and have the results accepted and respected. The right-wingers despise and denigrate them as ignorant rabble seduced by Thaksin's money.

Someone tweeted me in the middle of all this, to say that "This is straight out of the 1976 playbook. Get goons to do the dirty work and wash your hands of it".

The year 1976 was a dreadful one in which mobs egged on by right-wing rabble-rousers launched into a horrible massacre at Thammasat University, in which leftist students were hanged and beaten and shot to death.

Thais say their nation has never been so divided as it today. The rage on either side is palpable. Families and friends and couples have been torn by it. Red Shirts kick and stamp on pictures of Privy Council president general Prem Tinsulanonda, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, and army chief general Anupong Paochinda, and scrawl obscene and insulting graffiti against them. Pro-government right-wing elements heckle and attack Red Shirts and kick and smash their cars and shout "Ai! Khwai!" as they pass.

A people versus people bloodbath may be part of the playbook, forcing the army to wade in. But times are different now from 1976, and there is no telling what the consequences may be.

April 10 was a signal of just how bad things can become. And they could get a lot worse unless there is some political compromise at the top. The window for such a compromise, however, is closing fast.

In today’s The Nation, Supalak Ganjanakhundee wrote: "Thais appear to be keen on expanding the ongoing conflict instead of containing it, with many different colour-coded groups emerging to confront the Red-Shirt protesters. Such confrontation would only orchestrate violence, if not a civil war."

It is worth quoting Supalak further, because he explains the echo of 1976.

"On Tuesday" he wrote, "an unknown group of people put up stickers on Silom Road saying that the Red-Shirt group wanted a new Thailand with Thaksin as president. A move like this suggests that the right wing and elitist forces are employing old tactics to label the opponents as anti-monarchists."

‘’On October 6, 1976, student activists in Thammasat University were massacred just because they were accused of being anti-monarchists.

"The stickers on Silom Road prompted an immediate denial from Thaksin, with the Red-Shirt leaders declaring on Tuesday that it was a dirty political game. They know the power of anti-monarchy accusations.

"If Abhisit and his government are gentle and fair enough, they should be able to limit the conflict and stop a third hand from using this sensitive issue to make things worse.

"Calling the protesters terrorists and turning a normal political protest into a national security issue and a threat to the revered institution, is uncivilised and unfair. Besides, such tactics will only make the problem more complicated and difficult to resolve," concluded Supalak.

[DP25]

Thaksin propoganda machine moves in to overdrive. Sock Puppet Rangers Morph!

[enginerevision]

Thaksin propoganda machine moves in to overdrive. Sock Puppet Rangers Morph!

" Brainwashed "

[chadintheusa]

Any updates on the Silom area before people start heading to work?

[Neurath]

Any updates on the Silom area before people start heading to work?

Yes, any would be appreciated. I have to go down there now and want to know if the Sky Train is open.

[Neurath]

Thaksin propoganda machine moves in to overdrive. Sock Puppet Rangers Morph!

" Brainwashed "

"The Red Shirts – from the same nation – say they are fighting for their democratic right to have an election..."

Now that's just not true. They aren't fighting for this. They are making a non-negotiable demand that the parliament is dissolved immediately and Abhisit and Suthep to leave the country. The demand for house dissolution has been reduced from 15 days to immediate. That is not fighting for the democratic right to have an election.

Their demands are, they have said, non-negotiable and they are have also said that they will continue with their present occupation and try to expand it until those demands are met.

It's astounding that many seem to desperately want to read this conflict through a romantic revolutionary narrative. There seems to be a desperate desire to see the Red leadership as what they would like them to be rather than what they are and what they do. Gosh is one of these.

[4223rhodes]

Thaksin propoganda machine moves in to overdrive. Sock Puppet Rangers Morph!

" Brainwashed "

"The Red Shirts – from the same nation – say they are fighting for their democratic right to have an election..."

Now that's just not true. They aren't fighting for this. They are making a non-negotiable demand that the parliament is dissolved immediately and Abhisit and Suthep to leave the country. The demand for house dissolution has been reduced from 15 days to immediate. That is not fighting for the democratic right to have an election.

Their demands are, they have said, non-negotiable and they are have also said that they will continue with their present occupation and try to expand it until those demands are met.

It's astounding that many seem to desperately want to read this conflict through a romantic revolutionary narrative. There seems to be a desperate desire to see the Red leadership as what they would like them to be rather than what they are and what they do. Gosh is one of these.

There is a great deal of international respect for the Red movement and to a lesser extent Thaksin. This doesn't necessarily come from a deep positive attraction to them, but emanates for a deep hatred of their yellow enemies, the oppressors.

[RussellHantz]

Flashpoint Silom April 22, 2010 Thursday, 08:22 AM Nirmal Ghosh witnesses a possible sign of things to come 1am, Thursday : I got to Sala Daeng yesterday (Wed) afternoon, and made my way to the Au Bon Pain cafe right next to the Dusit Thani hotel, at the corner of the intersection across from the Red Shirt barricades next to Lumpini Park.

A couple of hundred pro-government demonstrators were gathered on the sidewalk outside waving Thai flags and yelling at the Red Shirts. There were police making sure they stayed clear of the road to let traffic through. More police were lined up at the side gate to the Dusit. But passions seemed high on the part of the flag-waving pro-government crowd, and their numbers were steadily growing. Sensing the mood, I tweeted that Sala Daeng was an accident waiting to happen.

Later, I watched it unfold. There was little satisfaction in having been right.

<snip>

Great report !

[watcharacters]

Paint ball guns could put a swift end to this stand off. Green, yellow, blue, orange....no one will know who's who.

that is a great idea

[brahmburgers]

Thaksin propoganda machine moves in to overdrive. Sock Puppet Rangers Morph!

" Brainwashed "

"The Red Shirts – from the same nation – say they are fighting for their democratic right to have an election..."

Now that's just not true. They aren't fighting for this. They are making a non-negotiable demand that the parliament is dissolved immediately and Abhisit and Suthep to leave the country. The demand for house dissolution has been reduced from 15 days to immediate. That is not fighting for the democratic right to have an election.

Their demands are, they have said, non-negotiable and they are have also said that they will continue with their present occupation and try to expand it until those demands are met.

It's astounding that many seem to desperately want to read this conflict through a romantic revolutionary narrative. There seems to be a desperate desire to see the Red leadership as what they would like them to be rather than what they are and what they do. Gosh is one of these.

There is a great deal of international respect for the Red movement and to a lesser extent Thaksin. This doesn't necessarily come from a deep positive attraction to them, but emanates for a deep hatred of their yellow enemies, the oppressors.

Neurath got it right, Rhodes got it wrong. 'great deal of int'l respect for Red movement' ...no way. And the only people who pretend to like Thaksin are the lords of odd little countries to which T has promised big investments (and not delivered, but that defines Thaksin: multiple promises, with no follow through, except for clandestine funding of Red Shirt rabble rousers and their mindless minions).

[KireB]

There is a great deal of international respect for the Red movement and to a lesser extent Thaksin. This doesn't necessarily come from a deep positive attraction to them, but emanates for a deep hatred of their yellow enemies, the oppressors.

The Khmer Rouge als received international respect in the beginning.

Mussolini adored Hitler, so someone must like the likes of the Shinawatra clan.

There is no respect for the Reds, nor Yellows, internationally. There's merely astonishment!

Thailand has become a failed state and the only ways out of this are early elections, sack the entire police force, replace the army generals, put Thaksin and cohorts in jail and wake up to the music. Mission impossible?

Edited April 22, 2010 by KireB

[Neurath]

Thaksin propoganda machine moves in to overdrive. Sock Puppet Rangers Morph!

" Brainwashed "

"The Red Shirts – from the same nation – say they are fighting for their democratic right to have an election..."

Now that's just not true. They aren't fighting for this. They are making a non-negotiable demand that the parliament is dissolved immediately and Abhisit and Suthep to leave the country. The demand for house dissolution has been reduced from 15 days to immediate. That is not fighting for the democratic right to have an election.

Their demands are, they have said, non-negotiable and they are have also said that they will continue with their present occupation and try to expand it until those demands are met.

It's astounding that many seem to desperately want to read this conflict through a romantic revolutionary narrative. There seems to be a desperate desire to see the Red leadership as what they would like them to be rather than what they are and what they do. Gosh is one of these.

There is a great deal of international respect for the Red movement and to a lesser extent Thaksin. This doesn't necessarily come from a deep positive attraction to them, but emanates for a deep hatred of their yellow enemies, the oppressors.

As there should be - for the "red movement", not Thaksin. But that is not the question; it is what to do with non-negotiable demands.

[selftaopath]

I guess it will come down to a fight, not army, not police, but between protestors, pro and anti government.

It will be nasty, bloody and dirty, but my money is on the pro-government side...they're boiling over...

I wonder if Thailand isn't waisting money by employing people to "play" at being a military or "playing" at being police???