Getting Married Without A Divorce First...

[Gigabyte]

Hi,

Yes, I know, it's called polygamy and it's not legal. However I'm considering it and I would like to ask if any of you have similar experience or advises to share.

Let's try to make a long story short. I got married in the Philippines in the early 90s and I have a Filipino marriage contract. Shortly after marriage, the wife and I moved to Canada and we didn't live happily ever after; 7 years later I moved to Thailand (I'm here since 1999) and she moved back to the Philippines. 10 years after we separated, with no possible reconciliation with my wife, I would like to get married with my g/f. The thing is, of course, I'm not free to legally marry and I cannot divorce...

I have checked with lawyers in Canada, and I can't get divorced there because I'm not a resident anymore (I could do if I move back to Canada and stay there at least one year to get my status back before I start the process). I have checked with lawyers in the Philippines, and I can't get divorced there because divorce in not legal in the Philippines (I could get a marriage annulment which is very costly and takes years to complete even after bribing half of the country). I have checked with Thai lawyers and I can't get divorced here because our marriage contract is under Philippines laws and neither of us are Thai citizens.

So yes, I'm stucked... And of course my g/f and her parents know about this, and they don't make a big fuss about my situation even if they are quite conservative. But as my g/f and I are planing to move together soon, everybody would like me to show some kind of commitment. Not all Thai (Chinese) families will let their daughter easily move with their b/f if they are not married first.

Getting married here seems not possible as I cannot produce a document that shows that I'm free to marry. So my options are:

1) Find another way to get divorced even if I tried (and paid) 5 laywers in three countries so far (I thought about being a widow, but it's not really my style)

2) Get married in another country where the laws are less strict about showing a proof that I'm free to marry.

I'm fully aware that polygamy is not legal, however if it's my last option then I'm fine to accept the risk...

Any comments, advises, similar stories to share?

Thanks in advance all... :-)

[Mario2008]

As a rule we don't give advise about illegal activities. it is also silly to commit polygamie, as your marriage woul not be valid.

You might want to look for a country that has easy divorce laws and get a divorce there, such as Mexico?

Also consider that many Thais are not legally marreid and only have a ceremony. A Thai considers this marriage and often finds it more impotant than the legal marriage.

[bifftastic]

Bigamy would be a big mistake, in my opinion, and is un-necessary, also, as pointed out, it would mean that your second marriage wouldn't actually be a marriage at all!

have the monks round and have the full buddhist ceremony with all the family, then, if you want to, you can pursue the legal aspects of getting your divorce, but your g/f's family, and the two of you, should feel better as you will have made a commitment with the ceremony.

Don't go to the Amphur with a document saying you're free to marry when you aren't, it will bite you in the arse later on.

[Gigabyte]

As a rule we don't give advise about illegal activities. it is also silly to commit polygamie, as your marriage woul not be valid.

You might want to look for a country that has easy divorce laws and get a divorce there, such as Mexico?

Also consider that many Thais are not legally marreid and only have a ceremony. A Thai considers this marriage and often finds it more impotant than the legal marriage.

Hi,

Thanks for the advise about looking for a way to get legally divorced; it might be complicated however might work. I'm not closing all doors.

I know about the forum rules, and that's probably why I stated first that I was aware that I'm trying to do something not legal (however not immoral from my point of view). Thanks for reminding me and replying anyway.

Actually I personally do not need to get legally married; I have no visa issue (I'm a legal Alien here since day one and proud to be) however, even if many Thais are not legally married and consider the ceremony as more important than the legal marriage registration, not all of them think like that. As I said, the family of my g/f don't make such a big fuss, however some big mouths there are asking (rightly) why don't I get a divorce before commiting with one of theirs? It's extremely hard to explain to them and they don't seem to understand or believe that getting divorced for me is extremely difficult. So that's why I'm considering doing something not legal. I don't want them to badmouth me and my future wife for generations to come.

If however I can convince them all that getting a divorce is nearly impossible, then they might stop asking questions, accept the situation, and leave us alone to do the ceremony thing and live together.

Thanks again, all advises and help I get is much appreciated.

[Gigabyte]

Bigamy would be a big mistake, in my opinion, and is un-necessary, also, as pointed out, it would mean that your second marriage wouldn't actually be a marriage at all!

have the monks round and have the full buddhist ceremony with all the family, then, if you want to, you can pursue the legal aspects of getting your divorce, but your g/f's family, and the two of you, should feel better as you will have made a commitment with the ceremony.

Don't go to the Amphur with a document saying you're free to marry when you aren't, it will bite you in the arse later on.

Thanks for your reply!

I do agree with you, however as I explained in my previous reply to Mario2008, the issue seems more to be why I'm not divorced yet while getting married (legally or by ceremony alone) with one of theirs. They think that my ex-wife might jump in at any time and make troubles, or that I'm still responsible for first (previous) wife and my g/f is not meant to be a second-wife. She would be the first in her family latest generation to get married and to introduce foreign blood in the family (she is the oldest daughter of the oldest son); they are all 100% Chinese blood since all the grand parents immigrated in Thailand many years ago (the grand parents still speak Chinese at home). So it's a bit delicate and being married legally or not with my g/f is still bigamy in the eyes of some people in her family. The spotlight is on us as potential starters of the next generation and breaking the pure Chinese blood line for the first time.

I thought that if I show them a paper that she is legally wife #1 would shut them up, but as pointed out, that paper would not be legal and might bring me in big troubles. I will have to try explain again...

Thanks all!

[Boo]

it sounds like you need a spokesman, like your thai lawyer, to come with you to the family elders & explain the legal situation. Usually they would take the world of someone in authority or respect over just you saying it isn't possible. Once they understand the legal ramifications (i.e., bigamy & their daughters wedding certificate being in effect useless) then it might at least allow them to understand your predicament better.

I would though proceed with an annulment in Phillipines. No matter how long it takes you will eventually be free to legally marry your gf & the family may be more inclined to "let you off the hook" if you are shown to be actually doing something, no matter the time frame, instead of just saying "sorry too much hassle, never gonna happen"

[Gigabyte]

it sounds like you need a spokesman, like your thai lawyer, to come with you to the family elders & explain the legal situation. Usually they would take the world of someone in authority or respect over just you saying it isn't possible. Once they understand the legal ramifications (i.e., bigamy & their daughters wedding certificate being in effect useless) then it might at least allow them to understand your predicament better.

I would though proceed with an annulment in Phillipines. No matter how long it takes you will eventually be free to legally marry your gf & the family may be more inclined to "let you off the hook" if you are shown to be actually doing something, no matter the time frame, instead of just saying "sorry too much hassle, never gonna happen"

Thanks!

That's probably the most intelligent thing to do. As for starting the marriage annulment in the Philippines I also agree that it's good to show that I'm doing something. I've heard that the whole process can cost in the area of THB 200,000 (there are many people to bribe; as far as corruption is concerned, Thailand is an innocent little girl compared with the Philippines) plus a few unsafe trips there. But if I can explain that and say that every baht spent on this process is money not spent on our new family, they maybe might close their eyes (and mouths). After all, they are all very business oriented and do not like when money is spent for purposes other than direct family spending. They will decide what's more important for them at the end; I spend the money to get legally free, or I spend the money to educate our kids in good schools (which makes more sense).

[Boo]

If they are business orientated people then maybe a pre nup style agreement might also appease some of their fears? As in, even though we aren't married making a pre-arrange contract covering issues such as seperation & any arrangements for future children.

I can see their point of view, esp if they are as insulated as you say. (100% Chinese blood after several generation)

But the fact remains & they need to understand, you are unfortunately in a difficult position that you are not in control of. Resolution will take time so an pre-nup style legal agreement might go some way to helping you & then out.

I'm not suggesting you sign away your life/money but some sort of reassurance that you will protect your gf & any kids you might have, the same way a marriage certificate might do. (legal custody rights for you, financial support for said kids, should you divorce etc)

[Gigabyte]

If they are business orientated people then maybe a pre nup style agreement might also appease some of their fears? As in, even though we aren't married making a pre-arrange contract covering issues such as seperation & any arrangements for future children.

I can see their point of view, esp if they are as insulated as you say. (100% Chinese blood after several generation)

But the fact remains & they need to understand, you are unfortunately in a difficult position that you are not in control of. Resolution will take time so an pre-nup style legal agreement might go some way to helping you & then out.

I'm not suggesting you sign away your life/money but some sort of reassurance that you will protect your gf & any kids you might have, the same way a marriage certificate might do. (legal custody rights for you, financial support for said kids, should you divorce etc)

Thanks again, Boo!

Once more, your words make a lot of sense and really help me out.

Definitely, having a pre nup agreement would help the situation, and has definitely more value than a non valid marriage certificate. Can I get this done by any lawyer and is this some kind of contract with a template with clauses already all in there, or does it have to be written from scratch?

I also admire your understanding of the situation; this is all really from my g/f family point of view, for them to get some re-assurance and make sure that she is well protected in any event, and I would probably do the same as them. As for my own risks, I don't really mind as long as everybody is happy together or anyhow in the future, it's really more for all the others around than myself; my feelings are honest and true and I can deal with myself in case of any disaster. Actually I think that having a pre nup agreement is totaly fair and a perfect compromise, as I can commit 100% in the area that I can immediately control, without commiting on things that I don't know about.

Have a nice day Boo, thanks again! :-)

[sesil]

hi Gigabyte. we are on the same boat.. been separated for 7 years now and i had my marriage in the Philippines too.. i already filed an annulment though cos it's the only way to get off the hook and be able to marry my thai boyfriend.. it will cost you much and you really have to wait cos you know how the judiciary system in the PH works. but time flies fast... and in the end, it'll be all worth the wait..i just hope ur gf's family will understand you and the system in our country. i can help you speak to them if you need a spokesperson. hehehe! all the best!

[kevozman1]

I thought Polygamy is legal in Thailand.