Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[vicco]

Academics urge political talks

• Published: 24/04/2010 at 03:02 PM
  
• Online news: Breakingnews
  

tweetmeme_url = window.location; tweetmeme_service = 'digg.com'; tweetmeme_source = "BPbreakingnews"; Both the government and red-shirt leaders should retreat one step each to pave way for peace talks, dean of Law Faculty at Thammasat University Somkid Lertphaithoon said on Saturday.

The United front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) should vacate Ratchaprasong intersection and move to rally in front of Government House instead, Mr Somkid said.

Meanwhile, the government should revoke the emergency law before holding truce talks on acceptable time frame for the dissolution of House of Representatives, he stated.

The academic said the suitable time frame for a house dissolution should be sometime before the end of the year as it is necessary for the government to get the 2011 budget bill endorsed by the parliament.

Bangkok senator Rossana Tositrakul said a public referendum on dissolution should be held to ask what the people really want.

If the dissolution takes place while social division still exists, it will be difficult to hold general elections.

Surichai Wankaew of Chulalongkorn University said both side should return to talk, but this time the talks must be made in a closed door. The peace talk is needed to prevent violent clash between the people and soldiers

Notice how none of these Thai thinkers use words like "morons" "thugs" "terrorist"....or even mention Thaksin..........too bad all of our resident TV experts can't do that too.

Edited April 25, 2010 by vicco

[animatic]

Or just wants a big ass revenge on his enemies before he dies.

Gathering face back to take to the grave, by ruining his enemies,

so terribly old world Chinese of him

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are forgetting, he has a son and as a good father he wants to leave him something .. like Thailand

Probably spend an evening with Kim in North Korea discussing the values of Fatherhood

Somehow I REALLY doubt Thaksin expects to leave little Oakie Doakie with more than a pile of cash.

There is not the slightest ability at political maneuverings in the lad.

[elcent]

a very important aspect in the whole thing is that this orchestrated mayhem attracts all sorts of criminal gangs, especially drug gangs. I have heard that a few politicians are involved in these schemes and is in meanwhile known by respective agencies and authorities.

Remember Thaksin told in one of his tweets I think it was, that his father sold coffee at the street corner to support the family, pretending that his father was a hard working carrying family man. Now look at the time when this was supposed to happen.

Honestly, can someone confirm that there was coffee around in ChiangMai during that time. Hmm, what else could it be?

[animatic]

Somchai, and Samak never faced the voters as PMs either,

Agreed and they too following the David Cameron rule should have been compelled to face the voters within the six months limit.

Wow twice we agree, well mostly this time.

Now the one problem is 6 months another election, besides the expense,

when all the parliamentarians are already seated.

I really think the french model should be tried here.

Let all the little parties run and have election 1 the fre for all.

Then if one party does NOT get 50%+

a run off between top two parties happens 2 weeks later.

This has two distinct benefits:

1 ) it takes out all the little self interest parties

and lets those with the closest to an actual mandate fight it out

2 ) those that voted for the little parties are now free to vote again for

the bigger vote getters choosing between the two available philosophies.

Fair to all the little parties had their shot,

But those with the ability to actual get a mandate go at it.

It also encourages the little parties to work with their closest bigger party and causes unity

and in the end greater strength for the smaller parties, becoming permanent parts of a large unit.

In France there is a president voted in directly by the electorate and a PM voted in by the MPs.

and not neccesarily from the same party at all. See: Socialist PM Jospin and Gaulist Pres Chirac.

And here is a head turner,

what is wrong with a constitutional monarch over a republic?

Essentially this is here now, but never called that,

and without a directly elected president to run the executive.

If we want to see absolute undiluted mandates from the majority of the electorate,

then run off by the two biggest parties seems the best and only choice.

Another option is to have preferential voting. As in Australia. This would alleviate the need for any more rounds of voting.

If I understand it correctly,

it would be too confusing and open to manipulation if used in Thailand.

[melbpete]

The Reds undoubtedly have a point about Abhisit never having faced the Thai people as PM in an election.David Cameron has proposed that any British PM who has not received such a national mandate must call an election within six months.Where I differ from the Reds is that I think Abhisit's offer of elections by year end was quite reasonable.I also agree that mobs should not be able to twist the arm of legitimate governments in this way, and Abhisit's government is certainly legitimate.But in response to all these little lectures on this forum about democratic form, it's important to remember that the Reds do have a very strong case which is valid even if one discounts altogether the appalling record of the elite sponsoring coups, court decisions,military interference and a rigged constitution.

What is the relevance of "The Reds undoubtedly have a point about Abhisit never having faced the Thai people as PM in an election."?

I just don't know what to say. That's just a stupid argument.

Abhisit went to the last election as the leader of the Democrats. So he was in the same position as Samak. And where was that argument from the reds when Somchai was elected PM?

"David Cameron has proposed that any British PM who has not received such a national mandate must call an election within six months."

PROPOSED? MUST? How do you have that in the same sentence?

The reality is that any MP that is elected can also be elected PM. In Australia and UK (both similar systems to Thailand) there are PM handover's (and Premiers in the Aus states) all the time halfway through an elected term.

It keeps coming back to the reds not understanding democracy. They just think that they are popular, so they should be in government.

Suggest you re-read the comment in context, and then decide who is or who is not putting forward "stupid" arguments.

If you are having difficulty in understanding how "proposed" and "must" can be contained in the same sentence, perhaps you need more specialised help.

Re-read.

Proposed. Must. OK, if I understand that correctly, it's just a suggestion to make it a requirement. But not relevant to the the current situation.

What I am saying is that they DON'T HAVE A POINT of "Abhisit never having faced the Thai people as PM in an election".

[BKjohn]

Or just wants a big ass revenge on his enemies before he dies.

Gathering face back to take to the grave, by ruining his enemies,

so terribly old world Chinese of him

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are forgetting, he has a son and as a good father he wants to leave him something .. like Thailand

Probably spend an evening with Kim in North Korea discussing the values of Fatherhood

Somehow I REALLY doubt Thaksin expects to leave little Oakie Doakie with more than a pile of cash.

There is not the slightest ability at political maneuverings in the lad.

well animatic, he wouldn't need to just look at Kim - he is not exactly a skilled politician now is he ? however, his morals are about the same as Thaksins and his son will take over once the old man goes to join Hitler and Stalin ....

[Mosha]

Which genius was PM when Thaksin was allowed to leave Thailand?

[BKjohn]

Which genius was PM when Thaksin was allowed to leave Thailand?

you have a point there

[elcent]

Which genius was PM when Thaksin was allowed to leave Thailand?

It were the courts who let him loose one week before the verdict.

[animatic]

THE NATION: Jatuporn picked up the idea of Rwanda and said the crackdown of UDD means Thailand would become Rwanda.

Non-violent. Right.

Violent indeed, but to be honest I doubt very much that Jatuporn would even know where Rwanda is.

Cheers, Rick

Some peace groups planned the screening of the movie 'Hotel Rwanda' at the Hualamphong train station and invited all groups to watch and take it as lesson to remain peaceful and refrain from using violence. This event was also announced in heavy rotation on Thai television, so it was clearly not a red shirt idea.

That is the context why Jatuporn speaks of Rwanda and using it as example.

Anyway, the planned screening lacked proper coordination and eventually didn't happen. TIT moment.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...l-30127834.html

And there is no doubt that the both of you aren't much smarter than Jatuporn either.

I imagine Jatuprawn would be much mot Tutsi than Hutu...

[animatic]

Which genius was PM when Thaksin was allowed to leave Thailand?

It were the courts who let him loose one week before the verdict.

His puppet PM Samak.

[animatic]

Or just wants a big ass revenge on his enemies before he dies.

Gathering face back to take to the grave, by ruining his enemies,

so terribly old world Chinese of him

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are forgetting, he has a son and as a good father he wants to leave him something .. like Thailand

Probably spend an evening with Kim in North Korea discussing the values of Fatherhood

Somehow I REALLY doubt Thaksin expects to leave little Oakie Doakie with more than a pile of cash.

There is not the slightest ability at political maneuverings in the lad.

well animatic, he wouldn't need to just look at Kim - he is not exactly a skilled politician now is he ? however, his morals are about the same as Thaksins and his son will take over once the old man goes to join Hitler and Stalin ....

Well the paralles are much towards Kim II passing it to Kim III

Kim I and II were not so much of a stretch,

but K III is cut from the same cloth as Oak,

and is being bypassed for another.

[earthpig]

I visited Ratchaprasong last night. The turn out of Reds is huge, and is increasing markedly by the day. Any discussion of the army attacking it appears to be absolute propaganda, and propaganda that is backfiring as it appears to be drawing more Reds to the battle zone. A Red crowd this massive hasnt been seen since the opening day of the protest weeks back.

It is not the Reds who need to fear the goverment. They understand that if the Army attacks them, the risk is that the soldiers will turn on their own officers. Its hard to believe that the Reds wont continue to move the boundries of of their encampment further out along Sukhumvit. It already runs from MBK to Ploenchit. How long before they own Asoke?

With Red numbers like this, it is the ancien regime who must be quaking in their boots. Any one at Ratchaprasong last night might be forgiven from wondering is this isnt fast turning from a protest into a revolution.

[elcent]

:D

Thaksin also tweeted that he'd just watched the Arsenal-Man City game. But in same breath he said he had little time to communicate w reds.

3 minutes ago via TweetDeck

Too bad govt gave more importance to budget use and military reshuffle, Thaksin tweeted.

5 minutes ago via TweetDeck

Back to Thaksin tweets, he strongly suggested he agreed with the 90-day election timeframe.

6 minutes ago via TweetDeck

For foreigners out there, "Rule of รอ" means "rule of waiting" but รอ is pronounced "raw". Genius!

!

[pimay11]

I visited Ratchaprasong last night. The turn out of Reds is huge, and is increasing markedly by the day. Any discussion of the army attacking it appears to be absolute propaganda, and propaganda that is backfiring as it appears to be drawing more Reds to the battle zone. A Red crowd this massive hasnt been seen since the opening day of the protest weeks back.

It is not the Reds who need to fear the goverment. They understand that if the Army attacks them, the risk is that the soldiers will turn on their own officers. Its hard to believe that the Reds wont continue to move the boundries of of their encampment further out along Sukhumvit. It already runs from MBK to Ploenchit. How long before they own Asoke?

With Red numbers like this, it is the ancien regime who must be quaking in their boots. Any one at Ratchaprasong last night might be forgiven from wondering is this isnt fast turning from a protest into a revolution.

Get real please.

[kissdani]

I don't believe it does work like that Madi, as it is well-known there are 'watermelons' in feeding jatuporn et al with vital info from government meetings, and Anupong - the HEAD of the army - keeps saying he wont' crackdown and the solution is to dissolve parliamsent. So how exactly is the gov't a military backed dictatroship? If what you say is true, the army would have come out guns blazing a long time ago and it would never have got to this, witness North Korea. THAT'S what happens when you have a military backed dicatatorship.

I get your point and I had to explain things the way I did to be polite to Thai people.

But I will explain a little more. The head of state in Thailand is not the PM.

The constitutional and national loyalty of the Thai generals is to the Thai Head of State. Guess who that is? These top and very wealthy generals are from old wealthy families. They are nice men, I know many of them-have played golf with them. They are simply following the law. The head of state in Thailand is guess who? They love their nation deeply and their head of state as well.

If one looks at things legally this way, and these smart and loyal Thai men do, the Thai generals will follow the orders from the head of state.

A Thai educated man can and will say to you with a straight and honest face that their has been no removal of the head of state in Thailand and thus no coup in Thailand in his lifetime.

PS

I never said we had a military backed dictatorship in Thailand. You assumed that I did.

The nation is run by a committee of old money families with their head of state. No military man has run Thailand in my lifetime or likely yours.

Thanks for your polite response.

I could be way off base but I am at the moment seeing things this way. I do know Top Thai military personally.

Board members who begging for the violent crackdown must read this.

[elcent]

I visited Ratchaprasong last night. The turn out of Reds is huge, and is increasing markedly by the day. Any discussion of the army attacking it appears to be absolute propaganda, and propaganda that is backfiring as it appears to be drawing more Reds to the battle zone. A Red crowd this massive hasnt been seen since the opening day of the protest weeks back.

It is not the Reds who need to fear the goverment. They understand that if the Army attacks them, the risk is that the soldiers will turn on their own officers. Its hard to believe that the Reds wont continue to move the boundries of of their encampment further out along Sukhumvit. It already runs from MBK to Ploenchit. How long before they own Asoke?

With Red numbers like this, it is the ancien regime who must be quaking in their boots. Any one at Ratchaprasong last night might be forgiven from wondering is this isnt fast turning from a protest into a revolution.

I agree, with lots of alcohol and probably other substances people start cross-looking getting double visions or even more.

[BKjohn]

Could someone enlighten me to this?

The country is going down the spout - government unstable - terrorists rule the capitol Bangkok a crackdown is eminent and the Thai baht is 43.00 to the Euro and under 50 to the pound sterling - 32.00 to the US$

This seems VERY strange - shouldn't the Baht be weak ???

[Mekhong]

THE NATION: around 200 men on motocycle and pickups are heading to PM's house on Sukhumvit 31. via JS100 Radio.

Red shirts or decent law-abiding citizens?

[elcent]

Could someone enlighten me to this?

The country is going down the spout - government unstable - terrorists rule the capitol Bangkok a crackdown is eminent and the Thai baht is 43.00 to the Euro and under 50 to the pound sterling - 32.00 to the US$

This seems VERY strange - shouldn't the Baht be weak ???

there's lots of charming going on in the investment industry. In 1989 the $ was 25 Baht

[SiriusBlack1]

THE NATION: around 200 men on motocycle and pickups are heading to PM's house on Sukhumvit 31. via JS100 Radio.

Red shirts or decent law-abiding citizens?

Yes.

[Beardog]

Crikey, the yellows on here are p i s s e d !!!

The only way is a seige, or lots of people may die...

then, in the next election... we will see who kicks who's butt!

Looks like Takins only last move

[jdinasia]

THE NATION: around 200 men on motocycle and pickups are heading to PM's house on Sukhumvit 31. via JS100 Radio.

Red shirts or decent law-abiding citizens?

Apparently affecting the Rama1 and lower Suk malls wasn't enough so they need to affect Emporium too .....

Since the gatherings have been deemed illegal you can't call the red shirts 'decent law-abiding citizens'.

[rixalex]

The Reds undoubtedly have a point about Abhisit never having faced the Thai people as PM in an election.David Cameron has proposed that any British PM who has not received such a national mandate must call an election within six months.Where I differ from the Reds is that I think Abhisit's offer of elections by year end was quite reasonable.I also agree that mobs should not be able to twist the arm of legitimate governments in this way, and Abhisit's government is certainly legitimate.But in response to all these little lectures on this forum about democratic form, it's important to remember that the Reds do have a very strong case which is valid even if one discounts altogether the appalling record of the elite sponsoring coups, court decisions,military interference and a rigged constitution.

jayboy often shows how it's possible to be sympathetic to the reds and yet still be fair-minded and reasoned. The above post is no exception. If only the reds took an intelligent approach like this, just think how far they could get.

[elcent]

THE NATION: around 200 men on motocycle and pickups are heading to PM's house on Sukhumvit 31. via JS100 Radio.

Red shirts or decent law-abiding citizens?

Apparently affecting the Rama1 and lower Suk malls wasn't enough so they need to affect Emporium too .....

Since the gatherings have been deemed illegal you can't call the red shirts 'decent law-abiding citizens'.

could it be the other side heading towards Shinawatra businesses?

[BKjohn]

THE NATION: around 200 men on motocycle and pickups are heading to PM's house on Sukhumvit 31. via JS100 Radio.

Red shirts or decent law-abiding citizens?

Apparently affecting the Rama1 and lower Suk malls wasn't enough so they need to affect Emporium too .....

Since the gatherings have been deemed illegal you can't call the red shirts 'decent law-abiding citizens'.

with clear evidence (video) showing that the M79 grenades were launched by the red shirts from their compound and one dead + 3 victims still in a coma, those who favor the reds here seem to be in a mental coma

[jdinasia]

THE NATION: around 200 men on motocycle and pickups are heading to PM's house on Sukhumvit 31. via JS100 Radio.

Red shirts or decent law-abiding citizens?

Apparently affecting the Rama1 and lower Suk malls wasn't enough so they need to affect Emporium too .....

Since the gatherings have been deemed illegal you can't call the red shirts 'decent law-abiding citizens'.

could it be the other side heading towards Shinawatra businesses?

Not according to all the information coming in ....

[Mekhong]

THE NATION: around 200 men on motocycle and pickups are heading to PM's house on Sukhumvit 31. via JS100 Radio.

Red shirts or decent law-abiding citizens?

Apparently affecting the Rama1 and lower Suk malls wasn't enough so they need to affect Emporium too .....

Since the gatherings have been deemed illegal you can't call the red shirts 'decent law-abiding citizens'.

What I meant was are the motorcyclists red shirts (ie violent law-breaking thugs) or are the motorcyclists decent law-abiding non-red shirt human beings.

[travelingmike]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

A bit melodramatic(the world has ever seen?), have you actually studied history? Why should the country be held hostage by a small group of thaksin terrorists? So the whole country should do as the minority red shirts say?

[sealy]

rejection is a hard pill to swallow....

anyone who has been to a bar beer knows that.

what's next?

send in the suicide squad?

quote]

lowly educated and simple and foolish and easily bought over as the red shirts may appear to be, one must remember many democractic societies have to evolve in one way or another.. each time however this happened in the past, history has shown how the civil war in america, the breakdown of the soviet union, eastern europe and the likes in asia were all achieved on the back and blood of these farmers.. if thailand decides to shed blood by invoking violent means to retake bangkok back from the red shirt protesters, then history is merely repeating itself. to date, abhisit has tried his best with the army. what's next? all you need is a blood-thirsty anarchist to fire the first shot, all hel_l will break loose and the end of kingdom is on hand. of course we may not say some people will lose their heads like of the last czar of russia , but we can say surmise that a new republic of thailand - much to the joy of some miscreants out there - may be born - after of course an interim period of military rule -just like in many examples in history. the worst case scenario is one where thailand be reduced to a somalia or a myannar or north korea.

so suicide squad or not, the choice remains with the thais themselves.

will a late blooming lotus rise out of the present swarm in thai politics?

hopefully, there is.