Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[barnsworth]

I don't understand this forum.

Why are people replying to posts with nothing to say but a few lines of insults. They reply to a post with already photos on it and 4-5 reply. and we have to look at the same pictures now on every post on the last two page.

Can they chat together in a chat room on here. Photos can show anything. One shot on TV of a rally panned away at the end of the clip and there were less than 20 people there in multi-colourds in some other city.

Guys, photos can show anything and nothing. It is all propaganda and we better hope it is resolved by some more sensible people than we see on tv (both sides) now.

I am interested to hear more views or both sides and reasoned debate.

[whiterussian]

Re size of protest...

last i saw police were blocking any reds from going to bangkok.

for a week now.

meanwhile: Multicolours group meets today at Victory monument at 4pm.

Edited April 25, 2010 by whiterussian

[pimay11]

pornsasi I ask you again. Why would anyone make a public statement that the are willing to die if an election is not held in 60 or 90 days? I may be wrong but I don't believe their personal conviction is this strong do you?

[zorm999]

animatic or lannarebirth, please would you be so kind as to educate me!

why do the reds not want to wait for scheduled election date do you think?

It cant be down to an army reshuffle can it?

personally, although I hope the reds win the election out of principle.. even though I prefer Mr A... I too wish the reds would go home, and do whatever they do until its time for polls..

thank you.. if you have the time or inclination...

IMO it is a combination of the military reshuffle and succession issues. The military has long had it's nose in various projects in the provinces but as long as their raison d' etre lived they could give the illusion of cohesiveness. If Thaksin were present here during a succession I think he could scoop up alot of military, who are not loyal to him per se but looking to get paid. These would form the backbone of his "muscle" as he moves Thailand to a more authoritarian government. Abhisit IMO is likely to reshuffle in a way where "professional soldiers" are promoted that are not only loyal to ^^^ but also understand they are servants of the people and not their masters. It's a big f'ing mess and it's baby steps forward and possibly giant leaps backward.

This is what I'm talking about:

"We are an army for the nation, for the monarchy and for the people. We will do our job without taking sides. We will follow government policy," Anupong said.

vs. this:

"Thaksin appoints brother Army Chief"

"Thaksin appoints brother in law Police Chief"

"Thaksin brother in law to replace samak as PM"

Yes I agree with lannarebirth, this is the crux of the biscuit.

Endless nepotism and purchased loyalties to create iron fist control

or,

A professional leaning army looking towards the inevitable succession,

and it's attendant uncertainties, since it is several generations since this occured.

Secondarily this iron fisted control is the key to the kingdom's riches.

And the key to long lasting power....

If you control the army you control how much anyone dares dispute you,

if you stifle the press as Thaksin CLEARLY did in the past,

then you limit people even KNOWING of issue to dispute.

One thing is never in dispute, Thaksin is a control freak,

he brooks no dissenting voices even in his cabinets.

He has a selfmade man CEO mentality of I am right

'my way or the highway', and this is reflected in his past governance style,

and in the Red Shirts negotiating style too. It is very UN-Thai too.

Thais like reaching consensus and meeting in the middle.

Thaksin is the complete opposite the middle is where he SAYS itis.

I would have no problem with an red election win IF..

they vote in MPs that :

a ) Were working for the people ALL of the people

b ) Were actually competent as legislators

c ) Were not trying top re-write the constitution to give a pass

to Thaksin and his cronies and their graft strategies.

And the wrong crew of incompetents trying to rig the system for Thaksin

would cause PAD to come out 10 x as militant as before.

Because they already know life under Thaksin's thumb would be intolerable.

Control of the Army list = power during the succesion

Power during the succession = ability to install your control mechanisms (influence)

Installing your own control mechanisms = profits without accountability for decades.

So controlling this years budget and the army list are top priority for Thaksin.

Budget means he can distribute patronage in the feudal style

Army control is pure power, ongoing.

Thanks ... some of the best analysis I've read in the last couple of weeks. So many people are focusing on the immediate issue of the current protest and the next election, but the real issues are much bigger and will affect Thailand for many years to come.

[stevotoo]

I don't understand this forum.

Why are people replying to posts with nothing to say but a few lines of insults. They reply to a post with already photos on it and 4-5 reply. and we have to look at the same pictures now on every post on the last two page.

Can they chat together in a chat room on here. Photos can show anything. One shot on TV of a rally panned away at the end of the clip and there were less than 20 people there in multi-colourds in some other city.

Guys, photos can show anything and nothing. It is all propaganda and we better hope it is resolved by some more sensible people than we see on tv (both sides) now.

I am interested to hear more views or both sides and reasoned debate.

It is called polarization

it happens when both sides stop listening to reason and choose to believe whatever dogma they choose to believe in the absence of genuine and reliable 'news'

it is the last stage before total chaos

[rametindallas]

The Rajaprarop from Petchburi to Indra hotel became one large parking lot.

But one thing is funny about the re-enforcements - if this is a peasant movement asking for more just wealth distribution, why are there many higher class cars among those that are coming protesting, like Mercedes Benz, BMW? You surely aren't a poor farmer if you can afford one of them...

Sorry for the long post. Now let me get my fireman's suit to prepare for all your flaming.

-------

So, you have some Mercedes cars and BM's parked by people joining .... can believe that, every mafia boss drives them and since this is the biggest gathering of criminals of all times, I'm not surprised they are there to see if they can make some money ... you must be a Thai and of course a red

I am not a Thai and I am not red. Said that I am surely not yellow either. I just reported the situation from this area as it looks like in the nights. As I went to the balcony to see a procession of the honk maniacs outside last night I spotted quite a high number of higher class sedans among the more typical pickups and motorbikes and thought I'd share that as it struck me as strange given what we were told that his rally was about.

This movement is a social revolt against an established order , basically a way for people to say that they are fed up with the establishment and want to be heard . I think K Anand said something similar . It cuts across social classes it would seem from what i hear . It is not a political movement per se , the reds have not voiced anything resembling a political platform . Just a way for people to say a change is needed , we have had enough and meanwhile lets party and kermess in the streets , much like May 68 in France . Of course some leaders with a personal agenda on their own , are taking advantage of it . I think repression by force would be a disaster for Thailand . Just a personal opinion however

I have to disagree with your personal opinion but we can agree to disagree. This rally started immediately after the courts ruled to sieze Mr. T's billions. The reds demands were to dissolve the lower house immediately and call for new elections. The PM tried to negotiate a settlement and offered an election of one year earlier than scheduled. If the reds adgenda was as you say they would have at least offered to consider this and get back with the PM. But surely you can see this was not their mandate. Now that things have gotten out of hand they have tried to convince the mob and everyone else it is a social revolt. They are in way over their heads and they know it. All the leaders stand to spend a lot of years in the Bangkok Hilton. Now they say they will fight to the death. I suppose to them death is a better option than going to prison. Consider this. Why would anyone be willing to die because an election cannot be held in 60 days or 90 days? They are so transparent.

Great last question. I would stay up to read the answer but I think the Taksin lovers will not respond directly to it.

[jdinasia]

How do you stop them from coming back next week or moving somewhere else? Certainly, putting the Leaders in prison is out of the question in Thailand.

In case you have missed it over the past few days .....

Terrorism is a death penalty offense in Thailand

Today (for the first time) the names of Chavalit and sae daeng came up in the talk by Abhisit and Anupong.

Thaksin has met with Sae Daeng and others recently ..... (Feb and March)

Messages are being sent out to the leaders of the Reds and with corroborating witnesses now workign with the government some very big heads amongst the Red leadership are now on the block.

[pornsasi]

And that consitution was, for the first time in Thai history, voted for by the people. I'm sure the reds voted NO, but they were outnumbered. And the longer that red nonsense continues, the more they loose supporters, because the first to suffer if the country goes down are the poor, means the reds themselves. Usually Taxi drivers are pro Taksin. How many Taxis do you see with red flags or red stickers on them? Much less than we would usually expect. Today is the first day my neighbour starts working again, instead of going to collect money at Rajprasong. The reds start to loose the battle and Abhisit and the army have done well, waiting.

Some insight for you on how the 2007 constitution came to pass

Referendum on 2007 constitution

Media used included all television, cable and radio stations, websites, print media outlets, government agencies, education institutions, billboards and places where crowds gather. All state-run schools and universities were involved in the campaign. Spots were aired from 6 am until 10 pm with the message "Approve: New Constitution, close to the people"

The junta then agreed to a debate regarding the draft, but refused to air the debate on television, because it would create confusion among the public.[43] A debate was later aired on Nation Channel, a subscription-only cable channel, rather than on one of the government-owned free-to-air channels.

In late July, General Sonthi said that if the draft constitution failed the referendum, the junta would modify the 1997 Constitution for permanent use.

The junta passed a law that made criticism of the draft and opposition to the constitutional referendum a criminal act. Political parties were not allowed to persuade voters to cast ballots in favour or not in favour of the constitution. Any violators could be banned from politics for 5 years and jailed for 10 years.[2]

The restrictions against opposition to the draft were criticized by human rights bodies. "Even if amended to allow for 'factual' campaigning on the referendum, it is clear that the main purpose of the law is to intimidate and silence persons who don't share the official view," the Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) said. "Meanwhile the administration is pumping vast amounts of money into Yes propaganda that is set to increase quickly."[51]

The ban against campaigning against the constitution was enforced. In July, 20 soldiers and 10 policemen raided the house of a politician and seized anti-charter t-shirts, banners, documents, and recorded speeches

Martial law is in place across half the country. That is the harsh reality of today, and it is not an environment that would be conducive to a free and fair referendum. Any referendum carried out under the current repressive climate and alleged forced voting cannot be used to chart the path of the future of a democracy.[58]

Bangkok Post

Good points, but note that each and every one of them provide further argument for thinking that an election held under this constitution is unlikely to lead to a situation where the result of said election is viewed as legitimate. This is one of the reasons for thinking that an immediate dissolution of the house is a bad idea. The result will not be seen as legitimate regardless of outcome.

I have nothing against the rewritting of the constitution , by a team of experts from ALL parties or academics , and a popular free and fair (this time) referendum .

[pornsasi]

Some insight for you on how the 2007 constitution came to pass

The government distributed hundreds of thousands of copies of the 2007 constitution prior to the vote.

People voted.

The referendum passed with a majority vote and the constitution was put into effect.

Under martial law yes . Still 10 millions thais voted against it . Very courageous of them

[mitrapaap]

You won't see the army clearing the protesters anytime soon. Their previous attempt on April 10 was a failure for them and the reds finest hour. It gave them the attention they were craving and the opportunity to violently attack the army. Since that time we have clearly seen that this is not a peaceful movement. They sit behind barricades sharpening spears calling for blood from their stage. When they aren't busy trying to intimidate the PM or those who live and work in the neighborhood they intimidate their own to keep them in line. Without another violent clash with the government they will run out of steam eventually. They can no longer leave their main base in large numbers and they've dropped their signature red to hide their dwindling numbers. The PM seems willing to let them implode on their own. One the imminent crackdown they claimed was coming doesn't appear they will come up with another set of lies to tell their congregation. They will claim victory and that they've scared the PM, make more threats, and look more crazy.

(I said that they would make more threats, Nation TV has received a bomb threat this afternoon)

Agree. I even think the 10 April was not a loose for the government or the army. It showed the reds that there are limits and that the army is eventually willing to do something. With April 10 in mind, the reds finally didn't dare to invade Silom with all the army lined up. Instead they barricaded themselves to protect themselves from the army. This was done to not let anybody in, at the same time it also prevented them from going out. So now they sit there and wait for the army to attack them so they can become martyrers and get the attention of the international press again. The worst for them is if government and army do nothing and just let them sit there.

Seriously, I have heard many people blaming the reds and I have heard many people blaming the government. But I have barely seen anybody having an idea how to resolve the problem. I dont' have a solution either, the only thing I did is putting myself in the different pairs of shoes and think what would I do:

If I was the PM: would I really give the order to disperse the reds? Would I be willing to take responsibility if hundreds of people get killed in a blood bath? Could I explain my action to my wife and my daughter? Could I still sleep well?

If I was a soldier: Would I be willing to shoot on fellow Thai citizens stitting on an intersection in the middle of Bangkok? If I was one of these young guys we have seen standing at Silom, could I as a 20+ year old live in peace with myself for the rest of my life knowing that I have killed somebody? (Remember that is not the same scenario as if you kill a soldier of a foreign army attacking your own country).

Violence does not create peace. Standing still, like Abhisit and the army do is much more difficult than to just strike back.

[pornsasi]

Another newspaper not seen on here say that Udon Thani police convoy stopped this morning.

All tires slashed police and army sent back to base.

[humfurry]

Just some numbers from wiki : "On August 19, 2007, a referendum was held in which 59.3% of the voters voted in favor of the constitution."

If the Reds were really the majority of Thailand then this constitution would never have passed.

[Tod Daniels]

Filling the bottle with what ? Sarsi or red bull ? Its hot you know .

Seriously because a few idiots , Arisman , Sae Daeng are asking to burn

Bangkok or sack shopping malls does not mean the immense majority of red

will do it . Bangkok is not on fire , shopping malls are not sacked .

<SNIP>

Have a thai tell you if the the english translation is correct. If you can understand even 2-word-tourist-thai, you can hear at the 29 second mark of the video Arisman says “nam-man” (น้ำมัน fuel, gasoline, deisel, etc). Now I know the thai penchant for drinking all and sundry but I never ever saw a thai drink gasoline; lao-khao, ya-dong, lao-dom, sa-tho, beer, whiskey, wine, yes, but NEVER gasoline.

I also find your argument lacking substance that simply because the city is not in flames that this type of rhetoric from the red stage to the red-rabble is acceptable. Listen to Rajaprasong Red Radio (if you can get a signal) and see the hate-filled violence inciting rhetoric the radical red firebrands like; Jatuporn, Arisman, Suporn, and the like preach to the crowd.

Strange that when a more moderate speaker like Veera Musikapong is on stage he doesn’t talk quite with the same level of violence, and thankfully when whacky Dr Weng is on stage he doesn’t make sense at all.

[whiterussian]

Just some numbers from wiki : "On August 19, 2007, a referendum was held in which 59.3% of the voters voted in favor of the constitution."

If the Reds were really the majority of Thailand then this constitution would never have passed.

The junta imposed laws for this referendum...

Criticism of it was made illegal etc etc..

just some text from wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Constitution_of_Thailand

Permanent Constitution for the Kingdom of Thailand was drafted by a committee established by the military junta that abrogated the previous 1997 Constitution. On August 19, 2007, a referendum was held in which 59.3% of the voters voted in favor of the constitution. The current constitution succeeded the former supreme law of Thailand, the 2006 Interim Constitution.

The military junta-appointed Constitution Drafting Assembly unanimously approved the draft in July 2007, despite a lot of public controversy about several clauses.[1] The junta passed a law making it illegal to publicly criticize the draft.[2] The junta also ran a successful promotion campaign leading up to the referendum.

In an editorial, the [competitor to The Nation] noted,

Martial law is in place across half the country. That is the harsh reality of today, and it is not an environment that would be conducive to a free and fair referendum. Any referendum carried out under the current repressive climate and alleged forced voting cannot be used to chart the path of the future of a democracy.[58]

Edited April 25, 2010 by whiterussian

[kentucky]

When a governement in any democratic country start to block medias (TV , radios, papers) and internet sites it usualy signals the beginning of the end for that government

dam_n, there goes the Australian Government then!

It's actually regarded as more intrusive than Thailand... but its certainly not alone as it applies to a whole lot of other nations:

Level of Internet censorship

Pervasive

Burma, Cuba, Egypt, Iran, North Korea, People's Republic of China, Syria, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Vietnam

Substantial

Australia, Bahrain, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Yemen

Nominal

Belarus, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Fiji, Finland, France, Germany, Ghana, Ireland, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Poland, Russia, Singapore, Slovenia, Sweden, Thailand, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States of America

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship

[pornsasi]

You won't see the army clearing the protesters anytime soon. Their previous attempt on April 10 was a failure for them and the reds finest hour. It gave them the attention they were craving and the opportunity to violently attack the army. Since that time we have clearly seen that this is not a peaceful movement. They sit behind barricades sharpening spears calling for blood from their stage. When they aren't busy trying to intimidate the PM or those who live and work in the neighborhood they intimidate their own to keep them in line. Without another violent clash with the government they will run out of steam eventually. They can no longer leave their main base in large numbers and they've dropped their signature red to hide their dwindling numbers. The PM seems willing to let them implode on their own. One the imminent crackdown they claimed was coming doesn't appear they will come up with another set of lies to tell their congregation. They will claim victory and that they've scared the PM, make more threats, and look more crazy.

(I said that they would make more threats, Nation TV has received a bomb threat this afternoon)

Red shirts violently attacking the army on the 10th April ?

Any footage ?

Seems instead that it was the army shooting live ammo at the reds

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

[humfurry]

Just some numbers from wiki : "On August 19, 2007, a referendum was held in which 59.3% of the voters voted in favor of the constitution."

If the Reds were really the majority of Thailand then this constitution would never have passed.

The junta imposed laws for this referendum...

Criticism of it was made illegal etc etc..

just some text from wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Constitution_of_Thailand

Permanent Constitution for the Kingdom of Thailand was drafted by a committee established by the military junta that abrogated the previous 1997 Constitution. On August 19, 2007, a referendum was held in which 59.3% of the voters voted in favor of the constitution. The current constitution succeeded the former supreme law of Thailand, the 2006 Interim Constitution.

The military junta-appointed Constitution Drafting Assembly unanimously approved the draft in July 2007, despite a lot of public controversy about several clauses.[1] The junta passed a law making it illegal to publicly criticize the draft.[2] The junta also ran a successful promotion campaign leading up to the referendum.

Sooo.... the Thais that didn't like it didn't vote for it.

[yoshiwara]

You won't see the army clearing the protesters anytime soon. Their previous attempt on April 10 was a failure for them and the reds finest hour. It gave them the attention they were craving and the opportunity to violently attack the army. Since that time we have clearly seen that this is not a peaceful movement. They sit behind barricades sharpening spears calling for blood from their stage. When they aren't busy trying to intimidate the PM or those who live and work in the neighborhood they intimidate their own to keep them in line. Without another violent clash with the government they will run out of steam eventually. They can no longer leave their main base in large numbers and they've dropped their signature red to hide their dwindling numbers. The PM seems willing to let them implode on their own. One the imminent crackdown they claimed was coming doesn't appear they will come up with another set of lies to tell their congregation. They will claim victory and that they've scared the PM, make more threats, and look more crazy.

(I said that they would make more threats, Nation TV has received a bomb threat this afternoon)

Red shirts violently attacking the army on the 10th April ?

Any footage ?

Seems instead that it was the army shooting live ammo at the reds

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

Just like the master Thaksin accusing fake reds causing the violence in Songkran 2009

The Thaksin apologists push the same line that they are peaceful.

Not that it matters any more.

The numbers are shrinking.

Red dead end now.

[barnsworth]

Well done Tomaz Bodzner. you caught out the propaganda machine. It has indeed been covered in a large Tarp all week.

Now I hope we don't have to look at these on every post again today.

Any apologies?

[pornsasi]

When a governement in any democratic country start to block medias (TV , radios, papers) and internet sites it usualy signals the beginning of the end for that government

dam_n, there goes the Australian Government then!

It's actually regarded as more intrusive than Thailand... but its certainly not alone as it applies to a whole lot of other nations:

Level of Internet censorship

Pervasive

Burma, Cuba, Egypt, Iran, North Korea, People's Republic of China, Syria, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Vietnam

Substantial

Australia, Bahrain, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Yemen

Nominal

Belarus, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Fiji, Finland, France, Germany, Ghana, Ireland, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Poland, Russia, Singapore, Slovenia, Sweden, Thailand, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States of America

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship

Right , many of those censorship pertain to moral grounds , f.e porn especially child porn , or religious ground . Not the same as censoring your political opposition

[ozzieman05]

New Tourist add soon to be seen on overseas TV

A couple looking to visit Thailand walk into the Thai Consular for a Visa

The girl at the country responds with

Sorry we no longer issue Thai Visas

But we have just got in a bunch of the latest visas for the "Red Republic under the Financial Benevolence of Thaksin''.

Oh!! the say's the lady a real nice red colour

The Thai girl behind the desk says

Please carry your passport at all times as you will need to show it to Border Police as you go through checkpoints, manned by stern-looking dudes clad in black with red scarfs.

You will see the ancient ways in Bangkok with Bamboo spears and other man made weapons on all the main roads

Watermelons are in plentiful supply and you will see them stacked up on most street corners

Welcome to Thailand

Ww will welcome you with instant riots bashing and name calling at regular intervals

Thailand has never been so inviting and exiting

[ozzieman05]

New Tourist add soon to be seen on overseas TV

A couple looking to visit Thailand walk into the Thai Consular for a Visa

The girl at the counter responds with

Sorry we no longer issue Thai Visas

But we have just got in a bunch of the latest visas for the "Red Republic under the Financial Benevolence of Thaksin''.

Oh!! the say's the lady a real nice red colour

The Thai girl behind the desk says

Please carry your passport at all times as you will need to show it to Border Police as you go through checkpoints, manned by stern-looking dudes clad in black with red scarfs.

You will see the ancient ways in Bangkok with Bamboo spears and other man made weapons on all the main roads

Watermelons are in plentiful supply and you will see them stacked up on most street corners

Welcome to Thailand

Ww will welcome you with instant riots bashing and name calling at regular intervals

Thailand has never been so inviting and exiting

[pornsasi]

You won't see the army clearing the protesters anytime soon. Their previous attempt on April 10 was a failure for them and the reds finest hour. It gave them the attention they were craving and the opportunity to violently attack the army. Since that time we have clearly seen that this is not a peaceful movement. They sit behind barricades sharpening spears calling for blood from their stage. When they aren't busy trying to intimidate the PM or those who live and work in the neighborhood they intimidate their own to keep them in line. Without another violent clash with the government they will run out of steam eventually. They can no longer leave their main base in large numbers and they've dropped their signature red to hide their dwindling numbers. The PM seems willing to let them implode on their own. One the imminent crackdown they claimed was coming doesn't appear they will come up with another set of lies to tell their congregation. They will claim victory and that they've scared the PM, make more threats, and look more crazy.

(I said that they would make more threats, Nation TV has received a bomb threat this afternoon)

Red shirts violently attacking the army on the 10th April ?

Any footage ?

Seems instead that it was the army shooting live ammo at the reds

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

Just like the master Thaksin accusing fake reds causing the violence in Songkran 2009

The Thaksin apologists push the same line that they are peaceful.

Not that it matters any more.

The numbers are shrinking.

Red dead end now.

We were talking about this year protest not 2009 or 2008 at the airport .

Anyway thanks for your clever post ... as always

[mitrapaap]

Just some numbers from wiki : "On August 19, 2007, a referendum was held in which 59.3% of the voters voted in favor of the constitution."

If the Reds were really the majority of Thailand then this constitution would never have passed.

The junta imposed laws for this referendum...

Criticism of it was made illegal etc etc..

just some text from wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Constitution_of_Thailand

Permanent Constitution for the Kingdom of Thailand was drafted by a committee established by the military junta that abrogated the previous 1997 Constitution. On August 19, 2007, a referendum was held in which 59.3% of the voters voted in favor of the constitution. The current constitution succeeded the former supreme law of Thailand, the 2006 Interim Constitution.

The military junta-appointed Constitution Drafting Assembly unanimously approved the draft in July 2007, despite a lot of public controversy about several clauses.[1] The junta passed a law making it illegal to publicly criticize the draft.[2] The junta also ran a successful promotion campaign leading up to the referendum.

In an editorial, the [competitor to The Nation] noted,

Martial law is in place across half the country. That is the harsh reality of today, and it is not an environment that would be conducive to a free and fair referendum. Any referendum carried out under the current repressive climate and alleged forced voting cannot be used to chart the path of the future of a democracy.[58]

Just two little points. The "junta" as you call it, was welcomed by the people with flowers, and what is wrong about running a succsessful promotion campaign? Isn't that the daily bred for politics? Guess they didn't do any vote buing like Taksin and his fellows. So imagine Taksin and his friends did only promotion campaign but not vote buing they would not be successful.

[kentucky]

Some insight for you on how the 2007 constitution came to pass

The government distributed hundreds of thousands of copies of the 2007 constitution prior to the vote.

People voted.

The referendum passed with a majority vote and the constitution was put into effect.

Under martial law yes . Still 10 millions thais voted against it . Very courageous of them

Even more courageous of them if they could at some point admit that they were in a minority and that the majority of Thais approved it.

Edited April 25, 2010 by kentucky

[dukkha]

This totally ridiculous.

Only one group will attach the army during the crackdown and whole world already knows that.ir doesn’t matter if they are wearing Red shirt, white, or no shirt at all. As I see no one will condom the army for bring order to this country, when and if they are able

'Condom the Army'....this is the only interesting post I have read among all the farangs and their opinions about a country they were not born in, nor raised in, nor have any affinity other than spare time to give opinions as to what they deem to be the problems facing Thailand...yes I know a typo...Condemn The Army.....if a civil war breaks out lots of farangs will not have a nano second to become armchair socio-political commentators which they seem to revel in so much...

[kissdani]

Again --- claims of massive increase in numbers of the reds are 100% NOT backed up with any evidence. Just the statements from people that support the red cause (return of Thaksin?)

The numbers aren't supported by pictures or even by the claims of the reds ... just by some reds on this forum.

http://58.97.5.29/court.html

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Who cares? Fact is there is a massive media censorship and manipulation going on. Do you care?

Lot of reports from the international media get quickly dismissed at this board. Many TVF members choose to believe only the things what fits their system of beliefs.

Your suggestion that now the lack of supporting documentation is about censorship is rather mind-boggling. The international press isn't being censored. What is being censored is illegal propoganda feeding an illegal insurrection. People TV etc could probably have gotten away with REPORTING on the events at the illegal red rally ... but when they started adding content to the screen telling people what to do they became a participant and not the press.

Amazingly the reds on this board never do speak out to condemn the violent rhetoric coming from the red stages .....

I am not a "red" my friend. But i can't see them as the enemy, because they are Thai people.

This form of censorship is criticized by a broad spectrum of the Thai society and media associations.

"The Thai Journalists Association and Thailand Cable TV Association Thursday issued a joint statement to condemn the government's blockade of the PTV's satellite transmission and the closure of www.prachatai.com."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...f-30126739.html

Statement from Former Thai Senators (2000-2006)*

“Demanding the government to stop blocking media channels and using the state-run media to present one-sided information on the crackdown of the demonstration on April 10, 2010”

http://tufacultysenate.ning.com/profiles/b...rom-former-thai

MICT forbids posting of pictures and divisive comments about 10 April clashes

Wed, 14/04/2010 - 11:24

The Ministry of Information and Communications Technology has instructed its staff to monitor the posting of pictures which show violence in the clashes on Saturday. People are warned not to post comments divisive to society.

According to www.dailyworldtoday.com on 12 April, Thaneerat Siripachana, Deputy Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Information and Communications Technology, said that on grounds of national security, the ministry would seek cooperation from webmasters of domestic websites to prevent the dissemination of such pictures. In the case of websites located abroad such as YouTube, the Ministry will work with the Foreign Ministry to seek cooperation from host countries.

He warned that the people should not post divisive comments, as they would violate the Emergency Decree and the 2007 Computer Crimes Act.

http://www.prachatai.org/english/node/1737

[ozzieman05]

((((10 millions thais voted against it . Very courageous of them)))

10 million is a lot of people out of 11 million

but you seem to forget the population of Thailand is over 60 million

OOOOOpppppss

only 1 in six people said No

What was that you want Democracy

[yoshiwara]

This totally ridiculous.

Only one group will attach the army during the crackdown and whole world already knows that.ir doesn’t matter if they are wearing Red shirt, white, or no shirt at all. As I see no one will condom the army for bring order to this country, when and if they are able

'Condom the Army'....this is the only interesting post I have read among all the farangs and their opinions about a country they were not born in, nor raised in, nor have any affinity other than spare time to give opinions as to what they deem to be the problems facing Thailand...yes I know a typo...Condemn The Army.....if a civil war breaks out lots of farangs will not have a nano second to become armchair socio-political commentators which they seem to revel in so much...

maybe you are referring to the red veiled threats towards expats who who do not support the Thaksin agenda.

[Insight]

Well done Tomaz Bodzner. you caught out the propaganda machine. It has indeed been covered in a large Tarp all week.

Now I hope we don't have to look at these on every post again today.

Any apologies?

I don't really feel an apology is necessary given the state of play there yesterday....