Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[kentucky]

I agree with posters who say Abhisit and security forces should have acted sooner and not allowed the mob to get entrenched. As soon as authorities saw stages being erected, and sound systems set up at major intersections, they should have moved the rabble out - perhaps to a large empty field somewhere in the outskirts of Bkk. I bet there will be a lot of new lessons (hopefully learned) about effective crowd control after this mess is over.

Yes i also agree although perhaps it's easy to say that in hindsight. Peaceful demonstrations should always be allowed and the government was i think anxious to not give the red side any reason to start complaining about lack of free speech, hence why they allowed some lee-way in the early stages. Of course though when you give an inch, people often end up taking a mile.

We all saw this as the PAD dispersal by the police was halted by the Army and the behind the scenes elite.

That was the inch the PAD were given and the Airport was the mile they took.

The Junta constitution allows for protests only because that would make PAD protests legal if the Democrats somehow fail to get in every time.

The initial inch was when many of these same red leaders led a violent riot resulting in hundreds of injured in July 2007 (which pre-dates the airport situation) and weren't immediately punished severely then (or since, for that matter).

Edited April 25, 2010 by kentucky

[barnsworth]

OK, Sorry, forgot the name.

In respect to the question of a society's responsibility to control lawlessness

and I quote -

"The Crime Control Model is based on the proposition that the repression of criminal conduct is by far the most important function to be performed by the criminal process. The failure of law enforcement to bring criminal conduct under tight control is viewed as leading to the breakdown of public order and thence to the disappearance of an important condition of human freedom."

--- Mr. Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra (thesis)

I think this quote leaves very little question as to what Prime Minster Abhisit and the Thai authorities must rightfully do.

End of story.

Amazing! Absolutely amazing. I wondered many times what Taksin would do in this (Abhisist's) situation. Well, I prefer not even to guess...

Dissolution of the parliament and a snap-election?

Thai snap-election set for April 2, 2006

Friday, February 24, 2006

In the face of mounting pressure and a hostile political climate in urban areas, Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has announced the dissolution of the lower house, the House of Representatives of the country's parliament.

The move follows an audience earlier today with the King at the Dusit Palace and is despite defiant statements yesterday that the PM would neither step down nor dissolve parliament. An increasing number of voices have questioned Thaksin's suitability to hold the office of Prime Minister, with a petition to the Constitutional Court and a student-led petition for his impeachment contributing to the political uncertainty.

...

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Thai_snap-elec...r_April_2,_2006

Another myth busted.

So many people know nothing about Thaksin other than what their rich friends have told them.

Nice spot.

[pimay11]

MCOT: Seh Daeng: UDD leaders are wise to tell supporters not to wear red. UDD should take decisive action b/f Apr30. Army doesn't have enough troops to disperse rally

Does anyone have any speculation as why this guy has not been detained already and not allowed to spue this garbage?

Spell check! spew

[lannarebirth]

OK, Sorry, forgot the name.

In respect to the question of a society's responsibility to control lawlessness

and I quote -

"The Crime Control Model is based on the proposition that the repression of criminal conduct is by far the most important function to be performed by the criminal process. The failure of law enforcement to bring criminal conduct under tight control is viewed as leading to the breakdown of public order and thence to the disappearance of an important condition of human freedom."

--- Mr. Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra (thesis)

I think this quote leaves very little question as to what Prime Minster Abhisit and the Thai authorities must rightfully do.

End of story.

Amazing! Absolutely amazing. I wondered many times what Taksin would do in this (Abhisist's) situation. Well, I prefer not even to guess...

Dissolution of the parliament and a snap-election?

Thai snap-election set for April 2, 2006

Friday, February 24, 2006

In the face of mounting pressure and a hostile political climate in urban areas, Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has announced the dissolution of the lower house, the House of Representatives of the country's parliament.

The move follows an audience earlier today with the King at the Dusit Palace and is despite defiant statements yesterday that the PM would neither step down nor dissolve parliament. An increasing number of voices have questioned Thaksin's suitability to hold the office of Prime Minister, with a petition to the Constitutional Court and a student-led petition for his impeachment contributing to the political uncertainty.

...

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Thai_snap-elec...r_April_2,_2006

Another myth busted.

So many people know nothing about Thaksin other than what their rich friends have told them.

Nice spot.

Consider yourself one of them.

This particular ploy was used by Thaksin in the hope that an election victory would lessen the courts appetite for pursuing a popularly elected leader. That strategy had already worked for him once in his assets concealment case. Judges interviewed later said they ignored the facts of the case and ruled in the majority "not guilty" because they believed he had a popular mandate to govern and they didn't want to rock the boat. That particular dereliction of duty is responsible for just about every problem that has followed.

[Considered Opinion]

If they discard their signature red t-shirts we might need a new name for them. Any suggestions?

"The protesters formerly known as Reds" perhaps.

"Mallrats"

Turds perhaps?

[barnsworth]

Consider yourself one of them.

This particular ploy was used by Thaksin in the hope that an election victory would lessen the courts appetite for pursuing a popularly elected leader. That strategy had already worked for him once in his assets concealment case. Judges interviewed later said they ignored the facts of the case and ruled in the majority "not guilty" because they believed he had a popular mandate to govern and they didn't want to rock the boat. That particular dereliction of duty is responsible for just about every problem that has followed.

He did give me a quick brainwashing last week on his way from Samut Prakaan to Chiang Mai.

Thaksin was the only PM to have a real mandate and that was part of the problem.... I told him.

[lannarebirth]

Consider yourself one of them.

This particular ploy was used by Thaksin in the hope that an election victory would lessen the courts appetite for pursuing a popularly elected leader. That strategy had already worked for him once in his assets concealment case. Judges interviewed later said they ignored the facts of the case and ruled in the majority "not guilty" because they believed he had a popular mandate to govern and they didn't want to rock the boat. That particular dereliction of duty is responsible for just about every problem that has followed.

He did give me a quick brainwashing last week on his way from Samut Prakaan to Chiang Mai.

Thaksin was the only PM to have a real mandate and that was part of the problem.... I told him.

That wasn't the problem The problem was he thought that election victory made him above the law and for too long he was correct in that assumption.

Paraphrased quote by Thaksin, which I can't find right now: Democracy is not the goal, it is the means toward an end.

Edited April 25, 2010 by lannarebirth

[kentucky]

OK, Sorry, forgot the name.

In respect to the question of a society's responsibility to control lawlessness

and I quote -

"The Crime Control Model is based on the proposition that the repression of criminal conduct is by far the most important function to be performed by the criminal process. The failure of law enforcement to bring criminal conduct under tight control is viewed as leading to the breakdown of public order and thence to the disappearance of an important condition of human freedom."

--- Mr. Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra (thesis)

I think this quote leaves very little question as to what Prime Minster Abhisit and the Thai authorities must rightfully do.

End of story.

Amazing! Absolutely amazing. I wondered many times what Taksin would do in this (Abhisist's) situation. Well, I prefer not even to guess...

He already showed the world a glimpse of how he deals with dissenting protesters in October 2004 in a place called Tak Bai.

[kentucky]

OK, Sorry, forgot the name.

In respect to the question of a society's responsibility to control lawlessness

and I quote -

"The Crime Control Model is based on the proposition that the repression of criminal conduct is by far the most important function to be performed by the criminal process. The failure of law enforcement to bring criminal conduct under tight control is viewed as leading to the breakdown of public order and thence to the disappearance of an important condition of human freedom."

--- Mr. Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra (thesis)

I think this quote leaves very little question as to what Prime Minster Abhisit and the Thai authorities must rightfully do.

End of story.

Amazing! Absolutely amazing. I wondered many times what Taksin would do in this (Abhisist's) situation. Well, I prefer not even to guess...

He already showed the world a glimpse of how he deals with dissenting protesters in October 2004 in a place called Tak Bai.

[pimay11]

If they discard their signature red t-shirts we might need a new name for them. Any suggestions?

"The protesters formerly known as Reds" perhaps.

"Mallrats"

Turds perhaps?

How about DBPM. Democracy By Peaceful Means? As they are all peaceful and deplore violence as they continually demonstrate by their speeches and actions.

[chadintheusa]

MCOT: Seh Daeng: UDD leaders are wise to tell supporters not to wear red. UDD should take decisive action b/f Apr30. Army doesn't have enough troops to disperse rally

Does anyone have any speculation as why this guy has not been detained already and not allowed to spue this garbage?

Spell check! spew

Another fake deadline. The reds won't take any real action this week, and neither will the army. What will continue is the quest for public support for both sides. This situation will be settled the Thai way which means both sides will talk to every one except each other. The government will attempt to undermine support for the reds in the north. The UDD will attempt to undermine international support for the government. There will be more denials from the UDD and more finger pointing. Right now its all about image, are they peaceful protesters, freedom fighters, terrorists? Who ever wins the battle for public perception will have the advantage.

[rixalex]

This particular ploy was used by Thaksin in the hope that an election victory would lessen the courts appetite for pursuing a popularly elected leader. That strategy had already worked for him once in his assets concealment case. Judges interviewed later said they ignored the facts of the case and ruled in the majority "not guilty" because they believed he had a popular mandate to govern and they didn't want to rock the boat. That particular dereliction of duty is responsible for just about every problem that has followed.

Indeed. The assets concealment case was to Thailand what the OJ case was to America. Everyone and his dog knew what crime had been commited and by whom. It set the tone for the rest of Thaksin's tenure and that has lead us to where we are today.

[elcent]

Just some numbers from wiki : "On August 19, 2007, a referendum was held in which 59.3% of the voters voted in favor of the constitution."

If the Reds were really the majority of Thailand then this constitution would never have passed.

this was merrily a vote at gun point with no other feasible options.

[animatic]

Consider yourself one of them.

This particular ploy was used by Thaksin in the hope that an election victory would lessen the courts appetite for pursuing a popularly elected leader. That strategy had already worked for him once in his assets concealment case. Judges interviewed later said they ignored the facts of the case and ruled in the majority "not guilty" because they believed he had a popular mandate to govern and they didn't want to rock the boat. That particular dereliction of duty is responsible for just about every problem that has followed.

He did give me a quick brainwashing last week on his way from Samut Prakaan to Chiang Mai.

Thaksin was the only PM to have a real mandate and that was part of the problem.... I told him.

That wasn't the problem The problem was he thought that election victory made him above the law and for too long he was correct in that assumption.

Paraphrased quote by Thaksin, which I can't find right now: Democracy is not the goal, it is the means toward an end.

Yes exactly,

he was brought down by his own overweening hubris.

And he STILL doesn't understand he was wrong in his actions.

[Neurath]

This particular ploy was used by Thaksin in the hope that an election victory would lessen the courts appetite for pursuing a popularly elected leader. That strategy had already worked for him once in his assets concealment case. Judges interviewed later said they ignored the facts of the case and ruled in the majority "not guilty" because they believed he had a popular mandate to govern and they didn't want to rock the boat. That particular dereliction of duty is responsible for just about every problem that has followed.

And so began Prime Minister Thaksin's unsystematic efforts to undo, evade, elide and destroy the proper functioning of the document whose whole purpose to ensure the legitimacy of elected governments. Legitimacy is not (just) getting the most votes - it is getting them and governing under a system of laws which are in place to ensure legitimacy. Even Richard Nixon found this out.

The appalling political infantalism in Thailand is in crucial respects a result of the fact that legitimacy hasn't come from laws or votes but from on high. With a lacunae there, the medieval barons fight it out for supremacy. The idea that everyone must be equal under the law is a counter-cultural notion in Thailand - the main game is making sure that others are under it and you are above it. Joining the police force helps I'm told.

[animatic]

If they discard their signature red t-shirts we might need a new name for them. Any suggestions?

"The protesters formerly known as Reds" perhaps.

"Mallrats"

Turds perhaps?

How about DBPM. Democracy By Peaceful Means? As they are all peaceful and deplore violence as they continually demonstrate by their speeches and actions.

So... is that sarcasm or irony?

Or both?

[rabo]

You won't see the army clearing the protesters anytime soon. Their previous attempt on April 10 was a failure for them and the reds finest hour. It gave them the attention they were craving and the opportunity to violently attack the army. Since that time we have clearly seen that this is not a peaceful movement. They sit behind barricades sharpening spears calling for blood from their stage. When they aren't busy trying to intimidate the PM or those who live and work in the neighborhood they intimidate their own to keep them in line. Without another violent clash with the government they will run out of steam eventually. They can no longer leave their main base in large numbers and they've dropped their signature red to hide their dwindling numbers. The PM seems willing to let them implode on their own. One the imminent crackdown they claimed was coming doesn't appear they will come up with another set of lies to tell their congregation. They will claim victory and that they've scared the PM, make more threats, and look more crazy.

(I said that they would make more threats, Nation TV has received a bomb threat this afternoon)

Red shirts violently attacking the army on the 10th April ?

Any footage ?

Seems instead that it was the army shooting live ammo at the reds

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

If you start with the answer, you won't find the truth.

The April 10th events started with the professional targeting and assassination of 3 commanding officers leaving the military structure headless. It is widely reported that they were hit with M79 grenades and video showing the start of violence begins with the sound of an explosion.

Just prior to this time, seven 5kg C4 plastic explosive bombs are detonated on 3 power pylons that feed the entire city of Bangkok. Luckily only 4 go off. Faulty timers. (whew, I live on the 19th floor)

These coordinated events were planned well in advance and intended to cause great loss of life.

What ever happens after that point is consequence.

However, these two facts alone are enough to decide between two popular theories about what is happening in Thailand.

Edited April 25, 2010 by rabo

[animatic]

This particular ploy was used by Thaksin in the hope that an election victory would lessen the courts appetite for pursuing a popularly elected leader. That strategy had already worked for him once in his assets concealment case. Judges interviewed later said they ignored the facts of the case and ruled in the majority "not guilty" because they believed he had a popular mandate to govern and they didn't want to rock the boat. That particular dereliction of duty is responsible for just about every problem that has followed.

Indeed. The assets concealment case was to Thailand what the OJ case was to America. Everyone and his dog knew what crime had been commited and by whom. It set the tone for the rest of Thaksin's tenure and that has lead us to where we are today.

Oh, but the glove doesn't fit ≅ It was FAKE Red Shirts doing the shooting

[enginerevision]

Well if Abhisit decides a crackdown, this could be very bloody with many death people on both sides

[chadintheusa]

Well if Abhisit decides a crackdown, this could be very bloody with many death people on both sides

It could, but it doesn't seem like that is the option that he is considering. After firing grenades at the skytrain, fighting with the army, fighting with the counter protests and occupying the downtown for the past three weeks the UDD is losing friends fast. It would take a harsh crackdown to get public opinion to swing back in their favor. The PM seems happy to let them self destruct.

[rixalex]

Well if Abhisit decides a crackdown, this could be very bloody with many death people on both sides

Perhaps then a good time for the red leaders and Thaksin to tell their followers to get out of harms way and to go home. They have successfully forced the government into bringing elections forward almost a year early. Is it worth losing more lives to try and bargain a few extra months?

[animatic]

This particular ploy was used by Thaksin in the hope that an election victory would lessen the courts appetite for pursuing a popularly elected leader. That strategy had already worked for him once in his assets concealment case. Judges interviewed later said they ignored the facts of the case and ruled in the majority "not guilty" because they believed he had a popular mandate to govern and they didn't want to rock the boat. That particular dereliction of duty is responsible for just about every problem that has followed.

And so began Prime Minister Thaksin's unsystematic efforts to undo, evade, elide and destroy the proper functioning of the document whose whole purpose to ensure the legitimacy of elected governments. Legitimacy is not (just) getting the most votes - it is getting them and governing under a system of laws which are in place to ensure legitimacy. Even Richard Nixon found this out.

The appalling political infantalism in Thailand is in crucial respects a result of the fact that legitimacy hasn't come from laws or votes but from on high. With a lacunae there, the medieval barons fight it out for supremacy. The idea that everyone must be equal under the law is a counter-cultural notion in Thailand - the main game is making sure that others are under it and you are above it. Joining the police force helps I'm told.

Kow tow for the 21st century!

It is getting harder for the old world mindset from BOTH sides of this reciprocal maelstrom

to find ways that blend the old world motus operandi and the current information vortex,

that spits out their every action in glaring detail and is grist for legions of armchair analysts,

and those who imagine that they are actually functionally astute observers, with a bias.

PS Neurath : elide & lacunae topshelf!

Edited April 25, 2010 by animatic

[elcent]

one very interesting thing today ...

normally the FM Kasit explains to foreign envoy, but today it says MFA.

Could this have something to do with Kasit's speech in the US recently?

[retdson]

This particular ploy was used by Thaksin in the hope that an election victory would lessen the courts appetite for pursuing a popularly elected leader. That strategy had already worked for him once in his assets concealment case. Judges interviewed later said they ignored the facts of the case and ruled in the majority "not guilty" because they believed he had a popular mandate to govern and they didn't want to rock the boat. That particular dereliction of duty is responsible for just about every problem that has followed.

And so began Prime Minister Thaksin's unsystematic efforts to undo, evade, elide and destroy the proper functioning of the document whose whole purpose to ensure the legitimacy of elected governments. Legitimacy is not (just) getting the most votes - it is getting them and governing under a system of laws which are in place to ensure legitimacy. Even Richard Nixon found this out.

The appalling political infantalism in Thailand is in crucial respects a result of the fact that legitimacy hasn't come from laws or votes but from on high. With a lacunae there, the medieval barons fight it out for supremacy. The idea that everyone must be equal under the law is a counter-cultural notion in Thailand - the main game is making sure that others are under it and you are above it. Joining the police force helps I'm told.

Great post. I'm no Thaksin fan, but he was really no worse than what went before and what goes on now. There are multiple layers in Thai society, and the higher up the tree you are, the less the law applies. If you're high enough ( like Chalerm's family) you can get away with public murder. Thaksins problem was that he was nouvau riche, and although he might of had the wealth, he didnt' have the breeding to join the club. So they blackballed him. The rest is history.

[blackman]

MCOT: Seh Daeng: UDD leaders are wise to tell supporters not to wear red. UDD should take decisive action b/f Apr30. Army doesn't have enough troops to disperse rally

Does anyone have any speculation as why this guy has not been detained already and not allowed to spue this garbage?

Spell check! spew

Another fake deadline. The reds won't take any real action this week, and neither will the army. What will continue is the quest for public support for both sides. This situation will be settled the Thai way which means both sides will talk to every one except each other. The government will attempt to undermine support for the reds in the north. The UDD will attempt to undermine international support for the government. There will be more denials from the UDD and more finger pointing. Right now its all about image, are they peaceful protesters, freedom fighters, terrorists? Who ever wins the battle for public perception will have the advantage.

unapologetically bumped from much earlier in the thread:

the key to resolving this is Veera

he is the weakest and least resolute of the red leaders

in the face to face negotiations with Abhisit, he was the most reasonable, statesmanlike and was receptive to making a deal

he is rumoured to have been talking to Abhisits secretary about a six month dissolution

he is rumoured to be talking to the US about political exile when this is over

he is quickly moving to the far right of Jataporn and Weng

there have been rumours that he is ready to walk away from the red movement after the grenades at Silom

its clear despite his supportive red rhetoric, that he is sick with the violence and that the rally has diverted a long way away from the principles he signed up for.

its clear he has a social conscience and is looking to what might happen in Thailand, if common ground is not found to resolve this

the police/army should make Veera's capture a priority or reach out to him to make a deal with him

Veera would co-operate easily and make an amnesty deal with the government to sell out the reds and Thaksin

he would need a new ID, new passport, safe passage to US for him and his family

also he would need to be allowed to keep Thaksins money in his bank account

maybe even a payment of 20 million, whatever is neccesary to bring this about

the Government needs a credible secondary source of confirmation of Methee's confession to make it credible and believable to the reds.

if Veera was captured and turned, this would be over in hours not days

Edited April 25, 2010 by blackman

[stkyricesf]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

Precisely. This is a very disturbing development.

Guerrilla warfare? Threatening to loot CentralWorld?

"When the first blood is spilled here, the entire country will be the scene of bloodshed"

"We are ready to handle the government measures. No matter what shirt we wear, our hearts are red"

These are terrorist threats being made by the red shirt leaders. Some people might object to the word terrorist, but I don't know what else to call it. Insurrection perhaps? Any other suggestions?

No suggestions, I think your words say it all. buddaha please bless Thailand and it's people.

[bangkokrick]

Well if Abhisit decides a crackdown, this could be very bloody with many death people on both sides

It could, but it doesn't seem like that is the option that he is considering. After firing grenades at the skytrain, fighting with the army, fighting with the counter protests and occupying the downtown for the past three weeks the UDD is losing friends fast. It would take a harsh crackdown to get public opinion to swing back in their favor. The PM seems happy to let them self destruct.

The PM seems happy to let them self destruct.

Very fair point Chad.

Cheers, Rick

[senti]

Thaksin is back in Montenegro.

If anyone wonders why he chooses Montenegro - they give out passports easily (if you have cash/connections, of course), and they don't extradite their 'citizens'.

Quite few criminals have (ab)used that already.

edit: To explain it a bit - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_%C4%90uk...gation_in_Italy <- Montenegro is ran by this guy and his 'friends' - this should put things into perspective

Edited April 25, 2010 by senti

[barnsworth]

So much for dwindling numbers and support.

Other media reporting today that Paholyothin Road now blocked by reds to prevent troops and officials entering Bangkok.

Raid on sukhumvit 31

Police convoy stopped, tyres slashed sent back to base Udon Thani

This speach by Seh Deang also went over most peoples heads. He was demonstrating to the Army and Abhisit that he has detailed inside knowledge of planning and future ops. Is this linked to Paholyothin Road blockade?

Don't gamble With Thailand Abhisit.

Edited April 25, 2010 by barnsworth

[pimay11]

If they discard their signature red t-shirts we might need a new name for them. Any suggestions?

"The protesters formerly known as Reds" perhaps.

"Mallrats"

Turds perhaps?

How about DBPM. Democracy By Peaceful Means? As they are all peaceful and deplore violence as they continually demonstrate by their speeches and actions.

So... is that sarcasm or irony?

Or both?

Both.