Thai PM Abhisit Vows To Retake Bangkok Protest Site

[Roadman]

has anyone read the bangkok post columns or seen the news on the "mysterious" men in black? Who do you suppose they really are? They've been seen in and among the red shirt "barricades" so it would appear if they were foes there would've been a clash.

One has to wonder how all this can go on when it gets to sucha level as guys in black with machine gus can roam around like mercenaries and assassins.

Time to bring this to an end. The "formerly red shirts now known as colorless shirts" don't want a peaceful end, so I guess sooner or later here, they'll get what they're askin' for, maybe more than they bargained for.

The "men in black" are army rangers trained by General Chavalit, the now chairman of Pheua Thai, originally intended to guard Thailand's borders with Laos and Cambodia, as well as carry out missions in the deep South. When Surayud took over a few years ago, he disbanded the army rangers and they all lost their jobs. They're some of the best trained special forces in Thailand, and now it seems they're getting their job back. Bad move from Surayud.

To put it correctly as in to guard for these guys is to have total control of the Thai Burmese border, and with total Army control jeez look how many other borders they would have to run for their profit and how they see fit, that includes timber, drugs, people, if it turns money for them they will deal, even with the Burmese junta. Just like they used to but even on a bigger and better scale. These are not nice people. And hard Reds supporters are happy to hand the Army control to them? Thankfully Pinnochio and Anupong see the danger for Thailand.

Edited to add that the longer this goes the more impressed I am becoming in Pinnochio. He was handed one of the biggest losers deals in world politic's and he is still there, playing it by the manual. Those English learnt lessons may be one of the best investments ever for Thailand.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Roadman

[redparrot]

I was down there today, red shirts stalls selling pepper spray and catapults....peaceful protesting my ass !

The markets in Chinatown are selling firearms all year long. Since most yellow PAD are Thai Chinese, according to your logic, they must be armed too. Or maybe your logic isn't as logic.

[jefro]

His version sounds good but is it really completely off the mark ? Why would he make up the M50 part ?

In the dawn of 6 October 1976, the rightists began to fire into the University campus using military weapons. Although the students pleaded for a ceasefire, the then police chief authorized a free fire on the University and the paramilitary groups stormed in. Students who were surrendering were forced to lie on the ground only to be beaten, some to death. Others were shot or hung and their bodies set ablaze. Those attempting to escape the University by jumping into the Chao Phraya River were also shot. The attacks lasted for several hours until the Border Patrol Police, Red Gaur, Navapol, and the Village Scouts re-gathered at the Royal Turf Club and were dismissed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_October_1976_Massacre

That is the official historical version. But should we believe what we will read 30 years from now about the current untidy situation ? It seems all official sources now have no idea what is going on. Maybe his version is correct. He says he was there.

QUOTE (Jockey @ 2010-04-25 12:41:07)

I'll bet none of you know the history of the Thammasat students who were slaughtered in 1976.

Have you seen the pictures or the video?

Yes I know the history of Thammasat 1976, I was living just a few miles away at the time and watching the whole thing on the TV.

I remember quite clearly how four officials, waving a large white flag were gunned down by the students as they were walking in through the main gate to negotiate a ceasefire. The students were on the 3rd floor stairs and used a M50 heavy caliber machine gun to kill the four officers.

After that all hel_l broke lose and I remember the crowd grabbing a student, hanging him and then burning him alive in what used to be the old Sunday market.

The students were out and out communists in those days, and the ones that escaped out the back and up the river, went to live in China. Now must are back in Thailand after they were awarded immunity from prosecution.

[centrico]

added the premier, who has been holed up in a military barracks since street rallies erupted in mid-March.

Holed up. Skulking in his little hole. What way is that to lead a country?? Be a man and get out of that hole <deleted>.

[Jockey]

That is the official historical version. But should we believe what we will read 30 years from now about the current untidy situation ? It seems all official sources now have no idea what is going on. Maybe his version is correct. He says he was there.

No he said he was living a few miles away at the time and watching the whole thing on the TV. There is still footage of events which can be seen on youtube.

Google "Thammasat students 1976" there's plenty information out there of what actually happened, none of which remotely suggests students fired on 4 people carrying white flags! However if you want to believe the version of events based on one poster from thaivisa who "watched the whole thing on TV" that's your prerogative mate!

[Jockey]

added the premier, who has been holed up in a military barracks since street rallies erupted in mid-March.

Holed up. Skulking in his little hole. What way is that to lead a country?? Be a man and get out of that hole <deleted>.

I've heard from "sources" he's under house arrest at the barracks and is being told what to say and do. He was used as the acceptable face by the "elite ". A mere puppet for them in my opinion with no real power.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Jockey

[473geo]

I was down there today, red shirts stalls selling pepper spray and catapults....peaceful protesting my ass !

Well that is it then..... they are here to stay........nobody will be prepared to go up against such massive firepower as catapults and pepper spray... ...unthinkable!!!

[Roadman]

The driver of a BTS Skytrain has told police investigating the fatal M79 grenade attack on the Sala Daeng BTS station that he saw rocket propelled grenades fired from the Robinson Department Store building.A bunch of liars this government.Maybe these are there own men who did it and blame the red shirts for it.

they arrested a few guys in black, one a retired soldier. They're out on bail again.

This is what shoots the "believe you when the Yellows are before the law" down. It's not what colour. It is "what the hel_l are any of them doing back out on bail in such quick time and with such relaxed allowance when charged with offences against the state" Incredible Thailand our daughter calls it.... Truely believable.

[C4Chilli]

added the premier, who has been holed up in a military barracks since street rallies erupted in mid-March.

Holed up. Skulking in his little hole. What way is that to lead a country?? Be a man and get out of that hole <deleted>.

I've heard from "sources" he's under house arrest at the barracks and is being told what to say and do. He was used as the acceptable face by the "elite ". A mere puppet for them in my opinion with no real power.

Because the "elite" also have his famiy.

[MEGALITHIC]

'The highly influential army chief said Friday, however, that the use of force was no solution to the crisis' so I guess the tanks and snipers option is out of the question. You never know though - the govt seem to say one thing one day and backtrack the next. Still think the best and simplest way is to cut off electricity and food / water supplies to the area - can't understand why they haven't done this already. There aren't going to be many people sitting around the stage if there's nothing to listen to and once they get hungry, people would have to leave. Makes sense doesn't it?

I said the same thing myself in an earlier post. The way the government/military have handled this is completely bloody clueless. They should have isolated the red encampment weeks ago when it was it a lot smaller by setting up blockades north, south, east and west of that major intersection and not allowed food, water or any access at all. I mean they didn't just build those bloody fortifications over night did they? The other thing is that a lot of the red supporters go home at night to sleep. The army could have rolled in the APC's, at 0300, and done a Julius Caesar on the reds encampment when the numbers were far less. They could of then set up a large screen somewhere and used a bit of psychological warfare by showing photo's of som tam, kao neow and gai yang 24 hrs a day and juxtaposed it with images of Taksin living in luxury. Too <deleted> easy.

[Jockey]

The way the government/military have handled this is completely bloody clueless. They should have isolated the red encampment weeks ago when it was it a lot smaller by setting up blockades north, south, east and west of that major intersection and not allowed food, water or any access at all. I mean they didn't just build those bloody fortifications over night did they? The other thing is that a lot of the red supporters go home at night to sleep. The army could have rolled in the APC's, at 0300, and done a Julius Caesar on the reds encampment when the numbers were far less. They could of then set up a large screen somewhere and used a bit of psychological warfare by showing photo's of som tam, kao neow and gai yang 24 hrs a day and juxtaposed it with images of Taksin living in luxury. Too <deleted> easy.

Interesting theory. So what do you think the government should have done when the yellows blockaded the international airport?

[TheOldWolf]

The way the government/military have handled this is completely bloody clueless. They should have isolated the red encampment weeks ago when it was it a lot smaller by setting up blockades north, south, east and west of that major intersection and not allowed food, water or any access at all. I mean they didn't just build those bloody fortifications over night did they? The other thing is that a lot of the red supporters go home at night to sleep. The army could have rolled in the APC's, at 0300, and done a Julius Caesar on the reds encampment when the numbers were far less. They could of then set up a large screen somewhere and used a bit of psychological warfare by showing photo's of som tam, kao neow and gai yang 24 hrs a day and juxtaposed it with images of Taksin living in luxury. Too <deleted> easy.

Interesting theory. So what do you think the government should have done when the yellows blockaded the international airport?

If you think it was wrong to block the airport, how can you defend what is going on now?

[Fishman1967]

According to Bangkok Post, several pickups with hundreds of southern muslims were spotted en route to Bangkok.

Talk about turning the heat on...

Muslims coming to Bangkok? This could be interesting.

[redparrot]

The way the government/military have handled this is completely bloody clueless. They should have isolated the red encampment weeks ago when it was it a lot smaller by setting up blockades north, south, east and west of that major intersection and not allowed food, water or any access at all. I mean they didn't just build those bloody fortifications over night did they? The other thing is that a lot of the red supporters go home at night to sleep. The army could have rolled in the APC's, at 0300, and done a Julius Caesar on the reds encampment when the numbers were far less. They could of then set up a large screen somewhere and used a bit of psychological warfare by showing photo's of som tam, kao neow and gai yang 24 hrs a day and juxtaposed it with images of Taksin living in luxury. Too <deleted> easy.

Interesting theory. So what do you think the government should have done when the yellows blockaded the international airport?

If you think it was wrong to block the airport, how can you defend what is going on now?

How can you defend a government that after 18 months in office hasn't even brought a single yellow shirt that occupied the airports for 10 days and government house for 8 months, to justice?

Double standards always make things complicated, don't they.

[MEGALITHIC]

The way the government/military have handled this is completely bloody clueless. They should have isolated the red encampment weeks ago when it was it a lot smaller by setting up blockades north, south, east and west of that major intersection and not allowed food, water or any access at all. I mean they didn't just build those bloody fortifications over night did they? The other thing is that a lot of the red supporters go home at night to sleep. The army could have rolled in the APC's, at 0300, and done a Julius Caesar on the reds encampment when the numbers were far less. They could of then set up a large screen somewhere and used a bit of psychological warfare by showing photo's of som tam, kao neow and gai yang 24 hrs a day and juxtaposed it with images of Taksin living in luxury. Too <deleted> easy.

Interesting theory. So what do you think the government should have done when the yellows blockaded the international airport?

If you think it was wrong to block the airport, how can you defend what is going on now?

How can you defend a government that after 18 months in office hasn't even brought a single yellow shirt that occupied the airports for 10 days and government house for 8 months, to justice?

Double standards always make things complicated, don't they.

Fair enough point I suppose. I was only considering the situation in the here and now and the detrimental effect it's having on the Thai economy. I suppose a more pertinent point would be to ask the 64,000 Thais, who can't go to work each day, how they feel about it. Do you really think that the rabble that are just turning up each day in the reds camp would be there if they weren't being paid to do so? Forget about the propaganda that's in the newspapers and start talking to the average educated Thai, that's not a yellow or a red, and you'll see what it's really all about. It's all about power, money and payback. It's politics, Thai style, where the concerns of the average man on the street are secondary to getting revenge for loss of face. Sondhis deal was all about getting back at Boxhead after he was bankrupted by him. Thaksins' deal is as selfish as it gets. Trying to fuc_k up a nation to get back at those that ousted him for NOT PAYING HIS TAXES and then confiscating his ill gotten gains. That's what my wife keeps telling at least. Thaksin is a meglomaniac. The average Thai on the street, in Bangkok, is completely fed up with this.

[jefro]

That is the official historical version. But should we believe what we will read 30 years from now about the current untidy situation ? It seems all official sources now have no idea what is going on. Maybe his version is correct. He says he was there.

No he said he was living a few miles away at the time and watching the whole thing on the TV. There is still footage of events which can be seen on youtube.

Google "Thammasat students 1976" there's plenty information out there of what actually happened, none of which remotely suggests students fired on 4 people carrying white flags! However if you want to believe the version of events based on one poster from thaivisa who "watched the whole thing on TV" that's your prerogative mate!

I prefer his version and believe it to be true.

[TheOldWolf]

It is not the goverment that put people in jail. Courts do! I

[ozzieman05]

I am Farang

But I have a Thai wife, and a daughter with my Thai wife

She has a house in Thailand

This gives me no right to want or ask for any say in what goes on in Thailand

This is her country and her culture, so my comments most of the time up set her

The reds are reds and the yellows are yellows

Every day I see both side set presidents that the other side feel they have the right to follow

I call it saving face, Farang call it Double standards

The reds have set them selves up as Police Judge and Jury

Right or wrong this is a Thai thing

Till the death they scream again up to you

But one thing the wife and I agree on

If they want to place them selves in a suicidal porsition and die for their cause. it is their right

But any person male or female who places the life of a child who is innocent of all reasoning

Knowing that sooner or latter there is a good chance of a crack down and that there is also a good chance there child will be hurt, scarred for life or be killed, is the lowest of all animals to crawl the face of this earth

My inner instincts are to protect the innocent life of my child, and my Thai wife says this is also the way of real Thais

Again I am not commenting on the Thai fight for their rights to have democracy

But the fact they are prepared to sacrifice the lives of their children should be deplored by any self thinking, educated person

In my home and circle of Thai friends, The red shirts have lost any small chance of respect, and the above is the reason

Time to shut shop and go home

Give Peace a chance, what good is a better Thailand if your kids are not alive to experience it

[redparrot]

I think some people here don't understand that this isn't just about Rajprasong anymore. The PM has completely lost control over the country. Here is what happened elsewhere in Thailand:

- Hundreds of protesters yesterday blocked Phaholyothin road in Pathum Thani to prevent police from the North and Northeastern provinces reinforcing in the capital for a possible crackdown on protesters. Some 50 police vehicles with 500 police officers were stopped. The blockade also caused traffic congestion in Prathum Thani's Rangsit area which is the main route from northern regions to Bangkok.

- In northeastern Udon Thani province, a group of protesters led by Wichian Khaokham, Pheu Thai's MP blocked the Friendship road in Nonsa-ard district to bar military and police from travelling to Bangkok. Some 10 vans and 6 trucks loaded with 178 police officers who would rotate with colleagues in the capital were stopped yesterday in the district.

- In northeastern Chaiyaphum province, protesters stopped some 100 police officers travelling from Nong Khai and Leoi to Bangkok.

- In northeastern Ubon Ratchathani, some 3,000 protesters took into custody seven people from Ratchathani Asok community accusing them of being security guards for the pro-government group People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

- In northern Chiang Mai province, red protesters confronted a pro-government multi-colour group gathered to support the government. Police asked the multi-colour group to end their activities because of the red group's aggressiveness.

- In Nakhon Ratchasima, pro-government group briefly confronted red protesters but police separated them before a clash.

Source: The Nation

[maccaroni man]

I think some people here don't understand that this isn't just about Rajprasong anymore. The PM has completely lost control over the country. Here is what happened elsewhere in Thailand:

- Hundreds of protesters yesterday blocked Phaholyothin road in Pathum Thani to prevent police from the North and Northeastern provinces reinforcing in the capital for a possible crackdown on protesters. Some 50 police vehicles with 500 police officers were stopped. The blockade also caused traffic congestion in Prathum Thani's Rangsit area which is the main route from northern regions to Bangkok.

- In northeastern Udon Thani province, a group of protesters led by Wichian Khaokham, Pheu Thai's MP blocked the Friendship road in Nonsa-ard district to bar military and police from travelling to Bangkok. Some 10 vans and 6 trucks loaded with 178 police officers who would rotate with colleagues in the capital were stopped yesterday in the district.

- In northeastern Chaiyaphum province, protesters stopped some 100 police officers travelling from Nong Khai and Leoi to Bangkok.

- In northeastern Ubon Ratchathani, some 3,000 protesters took into custody seven people from Ratchathani Asok community accusing them of being security guards for the pro-government group People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

- In northern Chiang Mai province, red protesters confronted a pro-government multi-colour group gathered to support the government. Police asked the multi-colour group to end their activities because of the red group's aggressiveness.

- In Nakhon Ratchasima, pro-government group briefly confronted red protesters but police separated them before a clash.

Source: The Nation

interesting but thailand also has a west, east and south so to say that the country is out of control may be a bit of a stretch, i seriously doubt the reds would try to set up a road block in the south.

[redparrot]

I don't think they will set up roadblocks, no. That would prevent the truckloads of muslim red shirt supporters, that are currently on their way, from reaching Bangkok. And Thailand doesn't really have a much of a West, Bangkok is quite close to Myanmar on that side, and the East is pretty much aligned with the North East.

[jackh]

Bring out the tanks !!

a few overhead shots will soon disperse the reds for sure !!

China didn't mess about with this type of activity and it's considered terrorism here as the reds are using grenades and whatever live weapons they can.

The government needs to send in special forces and grab the leaders ... that is the whole problem .. if there are no leaders to instigate the troops then it breaks down.

Thailand is now an embarassment to the world as shown on international TV. Thailands tourism has gone down the drain forever because of this ... Would you bring your family here for a holiday ?

The reds have made there bed .. now they must lie in it.

This is my opinion.

Well said. Thailand is an embarrassment to the world. Spineless govt if there ever was one. Indeed China would have this mess cleaned up in months ago in a few short hours. That's another reason why I live in China. I will be a long time before Thailand will recover from this mess. This is the nail on the coffin for Thai tourism for sure. I know I will scratch it off my list now.

[redparrot]

Bring out the tanks !!

The government needs to send in special forces and grab the leaders ... that is the whole problem ..

In case you haven't noticed, the special forces units are backing Thaksin. That's a big reason why the "normal Army" isn't doing anything.

[ozzieman05]

I think some people here don't understand that this isn't just about Rajprasong anymore. The PM has completely lost control over the country. Here is what happened elsewhere in Thailand:

- Hundreds of protesters yesterday blocked Phaholyothin road in Pathum Thani to prevent police from the North and Northeastern provinces reinforcing in the capital for a possible crackdown on protesters. Some 50 police vehicles with 500 police officers were stopped. The blockade also caused traffic congestion in Prathum Thani's Rangsit area which is the main route from northern regions to Bangkok.

- In northeastern Udon Thani province, a group of protesters led by Wichian Khaokham, Pheu Thai's MP blocked the Friendship road in Nonsa-ard district to bar military and police from travelling to Bangkok. Some 10 vans and 6 trucks loaded with 178 police officers who would rotate with colleagues in the capital were stopped yesterday in the district.

- In northeastern Chaiyaphum province, protesters stopped some 100 police officers travelling from Nong Khai and Leoi to Bangkok.

Can not comment on most of what you post but as far as Udon is concerned I can

This is my Thai Wife's territory and she gets it first hand form family and friends who live there

Her comment to me last nigh after phone calls was

Bushire, only true in the red shirts propaganda

Police from Udon do not want to get involved with Bangkokian problems

Have enough problems in Udon to look after

Wife has 2 friends (that she went to Uni with) in Udon Police who hold minor rank

Their comment

This would be a massive loss of face, and as there is no profit in loss of face would never happen

- In northeastern Ubon Ratchathani, some 3,000 protesters took into custody seven people from Ratchathani Asok community accusing them of being security guards for the pro-government group People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

- In northern Chiang Mai province, red protesters confronted a pro-government multi-colour group gathered to support the government. Police asked the multi-colour group to end their activities because of the red group's aggressiveness.

- In Nakhon Ratchasima, pro-government group briefly confronted red protesters but police separated them before a clash.

Source: The Nation

[ozzieman05]

Bring out the tanks !!

The government needs to send in special forces and grab the leaders ... that is the whole problem ..

In case you haven't noticed, the special forces units are backing Thaksin. That's a big reason why the "normal Army" isn't doing anything.

No I have not noticed

Showed the Thai wife your comments this morning and asked her opinion

"In Udon Parrots squark all day"

"Thai not listen to Parrot as just say what they are told to say"

She is Thai, and comes from Udon so is one of those you support

[maccaroni man]

I don't think they will set up roadblocks, no. That would prevent the truckloads of muslim red shirt supporters, that are currently on their way, from reaching Bangkok. And Thailand doesn't really have a much of a West, Bangkok is quite close to Myanmar on that side, and the East is pretty much aligned with the North East.

so where does the south begin? hua hin? that leaves much of thailand out of the reds grasp and as for the muslims coming to bkk to support the reds? who says they are not coming to bkk to fight for their own cause? honestly do you seriously believe there is a muslim from the south who has forgotten what taksin did down there? as a matter of fact they may be bringing the fight to the reds.

[jackr]

I think some people here don't understand that this isn't just about Rajprasong anymore. The PM has completely lost control over the country. Here is what happened elsewhere in Thailand:

- Hundreds of protesters yesterday blocked Phaholyothin road in Pathum Thani

- In northeastern Udon Thani province, a group of protesters led by Wichian Khaokham,

- In northeastern Chaiyaphum province, protesters stopped some 100 police officers

- In northeastern Ubon Ratchathani, some 3,000 protesters took into custody seven people f

- In northern Chiang Mai province, red protesters confronted a pro-government multi-colour group

- In Nakhon Ratchasima, pro-government group briefly confronted red protesters but police separated them before a clash.

Nice try, my friend, but hardly losing control of a country now is it? That is several thousand people being a pain in the ass. Several million on the streets and no law and order - ie, civil war - is losing control.

This is the nail on the coffin for Thai tourism for sure. I know I will scratch it off my list now.

That's good news. Only room for one jack here.

[brahmburgers]

The way the government/military have handled this is completely bloody clueless. They should have isolated the red encampment weeks ago when it was it a lot smaller by setting up blockades north, south, east and west of that major intersection and not allowed food, water or any access at all. I mean they didn't just build those bloody fortifications over night did they? The other thing is that a lot of the red supporters go home at night to sleep. The army could have rolled in the APC's, at 0300, and done a Julius Caesar on the reds encampment when the numbers were far less. They could of then set up a large screen somewhere and used a bit of psychological warfare by showing photo's of som tam, kao neow and gai yang 24 hrs a day and juxtaposed it with images of Taksin living in luxury. Too <deleted> easy.

Interesting theory. So what do you think the government should have done when the yellows blockaded the international airport?

If you think it was wrong to block the airport, how can you defend what is going on now?

How can you defend a government that after 18 months in office hasn't even brought a single yellow shirt that occupied the airports for 10 days and government house for 8 months, to justice? Double standards always make things complicated, don't they.

Give it a break Red Parrot. The issue at hand is Red/No-Color shirts making a lot of noise and mess in the center of Bkk. The Yellow issues are of a different time. I agree with Megalithic that firm measures should have been taken from the get go. Abhisit has been too nice, and Thai security forces have been too wishy washy. Namby Pamby is ok for a first date with a bar girl, but it's not how you want police and military to be. They're supposed to be professionals who take orders from top brass who in turn are given policies & direction from the PM and legislators. For the past few weeks, there's been a breakdown of leadership, and the results are the messes and injuries we see at and around the Bangkok tire barricades.

Abhisit and the military top brass appear to be thinking about taking the bull by the horns and doing something dynamic to clean up the protest site, but it's still mostly wringing of hands and threats which aren't followed up.

Some suggestions: get a lot of fire trucks nearby. Those tire barricades could go up in black smoke any moment. There was one report of them being doused in fuel. Can anyone confirm this?

Also: put buses in place which can enable any Reds to leave if they so choose. Children particularly should be taken out of harm's way.

Like a ratchet, firm security should surround the compound and not allow protesters to enter. Once they leave, that's it. Water and food in, children and weapons out.

Make it clear, via p.a. announcements, that anyone in the compound who carries or uses lethal weapons will be prosecuted for terrorist activities. If found guilty, they will be punished according to the law.

there's an htm below which I thought was a photo, but am having some technical problem with it, so am trying to delete it from this post, but can't.

redandblack.html

Edited April 25, 2010 by brahmburgers

[KireB]

Bring out the tanks !!

The government needs to send in special forces and grab the leaders ... that is the whole problem ..

In case you haven't noticed, the special forces units are backing Thaksin. That's a big reason why the "normal Army" isn't doing anything.

Some rogue parts of the army are backing Thaksin in his war against Thailand. I'm glad that you agree that this whole red menace is about Thaksin.

The PM is still showing restraint and is still completely in control.

[Artisi]

as a matter of fact they may be bringing the fight to the reds.

A more likely reason for them to come to BKK