Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[Publicus]

I do believe that Abishit was not democratically elected by the Thai people (Same as Gordon Brown) and that is what the reds are asking for?? and I agreed that the reds should not bring the city to a stand still and cause billions of damage to the economy of Thailand but is this not what the yellows did when they blockaded the airport???..I am not pro Red or Yellow I just want the people of Thailand to get a fair deal..As I can see it the rich get richer and the poorer get poorer in Thailand.

Abhisit WAS democratically elected. That's the way the parliament system works here and in the UK. People vote for MPs. MPs elect the PM. The PM is usually the leader of the party during the election, so people think they are really voting directly for the PM.

But even with that, the PPP (the red Thaksin party) did not get the majority of votes. The Democrats were not far behind them. The previous government was formed with a coalition using smaller parties. The smaller parties supported the PPP initially, but changed their support later. That put the Democrats into government, and made Abhisit PM.

The funny thing about the rich getting richer is that the person that the reds are fighting for is one of the richest people in Thailand.

And now, as if that weren't enuff the richest citizen of that paragon of the rule of law and human rights, Montenegro .

[Roadman]

Reds are remarkably restrained considering the amount of abuse they are receiving.

Anyways lets applaud them for their efforts and hopefully the govt will come to their senses and resign, dissolve parliament and call elections.

The restraint shown by this government would not have been seen whether it was in Moscow, Beijing or DC.

Let alone anywhere in Latin America or other parts of Asia for that matter - be it Delhi, Jakarta or Yangon.

Whatever the rights of the argument over the vast disparity of Thailand's wealth underlying the righteousness of the Red's cause;

it has been well & truly negated by the Red leadership who are doing their damnedest in bringing down this country through violence & anarchy.

The dilemma of any Thai government has been their inability to utilise the forces of law & order proficiently

in quelling outbreaks of civil strife with a firm but measured response.

Whether it be at Thammasat University, which made Kent State appear like a a mild disturbance,

or the political impasse the country now faces, where the Reds are displaying the only coherent leadership

and those in Brown or Green are poor imitation of the Keystone Cops who are incapable of restoring the rule of law.

Your argument regarding the Red's restraint, IMO does not stand up against the deaths on the street

and the disturbance to ordinary Thai lives and businesses.

The Red Leadership [RL] is not a benign organisation wanting to bring equality for the masses,

this is an all out power grab by some very nasty characters who are out for their own personal gain.

The needs and rights of the poor don't figure much in the outcome, but they are there to be manipulated for the RL's nefarious objectives.

Rouge Out

A newbie who understands it in a nutshell....welcome to the assylum.

Keystone Cops...and the yes he is, no he isn't captured crim dines out at his favourite Mac on the way home... . ONly in Thailand.

[Publicus]

A civil war is a war between organized groups within a single nation state,[1] or, less commonly, between two countries created from a formerly-united nation-state.[2] The aim of one side may be to take control of the country or a region, to achieve independence for a region, or to change government policies.[1] It is high-intensity conflict, often involving regular armed forces, that is sustained, organized and large-scale. Civil wars may result in large numbers of casualties and the consumption of significant resources.[3]

End of silly discussion. This is neither wide spread or a high intensity conflict as defined by war.

WAR = a state of armed conflict between different nations, states, or groups (Oxford Dictionnary)

I deduct for civil war that we must have organised armed units on each side

civ|il war (siv-el wôr), n. 1 a violent conflict between organized groups within a country

<H2></H2>James D. Fearon - Stanford University

[A] more standard definition is common today:

1) Civil war refers to a violent conflict between organized groups within a country that are fighting over control of the government, one side's separatist goals, or some divisive government policy.

Political scientists who study civil war have proposed various refinements to this rough definition to deal with borderline cases. One issue concerns how much killing has to occur -- and at what rate.

2) For a conflict to qualify as a civil war, most academics use the threshold of 1,000 dead, which leads to the inclusion of a good number of low-intensity rural insurgencies.

This is roughly what happened in Lebanon and at a lower level in Turkish cities in the late 1970s. Ethnic cleansing will occur not as a systematic, centrally directed campaign (as in Bosnia), but as a result of people moving to escape danger.

And there's another twist to the terminology:

3) Almost no one, for example, calls the Hindu-Muslim violence in India a civil war.

A civil war has to involve attempts to grab power at the center of government or in a given region, or to use violence to change some major government policy.

____________________________________

So I would add the questons o who's to define the elements, characterists and nature of a "Thai-style" civil war? There's Thai-style democracy, a Thai-style corporate culture (of corrution), a Thai-style resolution of mattes without resorting to the police (a traffic accident settled by the exchange of cash on the spot, for example), Thai-style sex for money in which "it's up to you" as to whether or not or how much of any cash gratuity you may decide to offer which is nothing other than an obvious, overt and convenient circumvention of laws of prostitution, Thai style justice formally and infomally which in each instance the laws are convoluted to apply to the particular Hi-So elite person being charged and who so regularly walks away, Thai style institutions of society which warp the whole of the society, culture and civilization to no productive purpose and end....one could go on but the point is clear.

As to the events throughout 2009 up to the present, the sociopolitical trends and actions have been building towards a civil war, and now it's almost upon us if it hadn't begun already, but it is a 'Thai style' civil war because the current ongoing clashes initiated by Thaksin and his Redshirt capians have and continue to pursue

[ChemiseRouge]

A newbie who understands it in a nutshell....welcome to the assylum.

Keystone Cops...and the yes he is, no he isn't captured crim dines out at his favourite Mac on the way home... . ONly in Thailand.

Thank you for your welcome. The moniker I chose was in contradiction to those who thought it cool to be a revolutionary and used similar 'spurious political gods'.

Pol Pot, Mao, and Che - many died following these false icons, but even more of their countrymen died at their hands.

Lies & falsehoods should be challenged - equating the present situation to Pol Pot and taking the country back to 'Year Zero' is patently absurd.

Though as mentioned by Publicus, another low intensity civil war [don't forget the South] is certainly possible.

Should we see the bungled dispersal of the Reds in the Central World area with blood being shed, whilst arsonists set ablaze Bangkok's premium retail temples arousing both the people and serious moneyed interests, we could well see the incipient polarised beginning of a class-base civil war. The best way to nip this flowering poisonous phenomenon would be to round up the leadership.

Staking out McDonalds is not exactly onerous!

However the chances they have had were missed, sometimes clearly intentionally.

Sending in an official without back up to arrest the leaders armed merely with a warrant, was met with the derision it deserved. The embarrassed fellow was fortunate to get away with just a little loss of dignity.

But as mentioned in an important piece on the jockeying factions within the army on the New Mandala site, there are personal interests again stymieing the interests of the nation.

All branches of state's forces of law & order appear to have been suborned to some extent by some interest group be they political, status or moneyed.

The government needs to get serious, with the heads of the armed services both having to get their hands from beneath their buts and take firm action if they & the nation in its present form is to retain any credibility.

First by weeding out all the unreliable elements within the higher echelons of the command structure in both the police & the Army. Why the heads of both services were not fired for the ASEAN debacle is still beyond me? An intelligence service loyal to the government needs to be tasked in tracking down the Red Leadership using both sigint & humint. Snatch squads made up of SF units whose loyalty can be relied upon then tasked to carry out the arrests.

Politically the PM should seek a mandate after a period, when law & order has been restored. A realistic package of social reform would negate the demagogy of the Red Leadership, and show that there are real & better alternatives to Thaksin's front men.

There is a clock counting down to uncertain change in the Kingdom, and time should not be squandered by allowing anarchy to prevail and seditious violent rhetoric to gain the minds of the masses.

The time for procrastination is over and firm but limited targeted action should be at hand, before the sands of time present even more intractable issues into the Thai political arena.

[Siam Simon]

A newbie who understands it in a nutshell....welcome to the assylum.

Keystone Cops...and the yes he is, no he isn't captured crim dines out at his favourite Mac on the way home... . ONly in Thailand.

Thank you for your welcome. The moniker I chose was in contradiction to those who thought it cool to be a revolutionary and used similar 'spurious political gods'.

Pol Pot, Mao, and Che - many died following these false icons, but even more of their countrymen died at their hands.

Lies & falsehoods should be challenged - equating the present situation to Pol Pot and taking the country back to 'Year Zero' is patently absurd.

Though as mentioned by Publicus, another low intensity civil war [don't forget the South] is certainly possible.

Should we see the bungled dispersal of the Reds in the Central World area with blood being shed, whilst arsonists set ablaze Bangkok's premium retail temples arousing both the people and serious moneyed interests, we could well see the incipient polarised beginning of a class-base civil war. The best way to nip this flowering poisonous phenomenon would be to round up the leadership.

Staking out McDonalds is not exactly onerous!

However the chances they have had were missed, sometimes clearly intentionally.

Sending in an official without back up to arrest the leaders armed merely with a warrant, was met with the derision it deserved. The embarrassed fellow was fortunate to get away with just a little loss of dignity.

But as mentioned in an important piece on the jockeying factions within the army on the New Mandala site, there are personal interests again stymieing the interests of the nation.

All branches of state's forces of law & order appear to have been suborned to some extent by some interest group be they political, status or moneyed.

The government needs to get serious, with the heads of the armed services both having to get their hands from beneath their buts and take firm action if they & the nation in its present form is to retain any credibility.

First by weeding out all the unreliable elements within the higher echelons of the command structure in both the police & the Army. Why the heads of both services were not fired for the ASEAN debacle is still beyond me? An intelligence service loyal to the government needs to be tasked in tracking down the Red Leadership using both sigint & humint. Snatch squads made up of SF units whose loyalty can be relied upon then tasked to carry out the arrests.

Politically the PM should seek a mandate after a period, when law & order has been restored. A realistic package of social reform would negate the demagogy of the Red Leadership, and show that there are real & better alternatives to Thaksin's front men.

There is a clock counting down to uncertain change in the Kingdom, and time should not be squandered by allowing anarchy to prevail and seditious violent rhetoric to gain the minds of the masses.

The time for procrastination is over and firm but limited targeted action should be at hand, before the sands of time present even more intractable issues into the Thai political arena.

Got any questions about Schengen Visas or decent mid-priced hotels on Koh Tao? Thought not.

[brahmburgers]

All just causes occur in the same way, however I am sure you will argue it's unjust. However I agree the sooner the govt relents, the better it will be for all thailand. (reds can go home)

Driver of the vehicle stopped as ordered but managed to run away.

Also found were documents of Pol Sgt Pratya Maneekote of Patum Thani's Kukot district. Police could not say whether the drive was the sergeant.

So that's the Sgt's way of staying out of jail. If he's brought in for questioning, he'll say the cops on the scene can't ID him as the man on the motorbike. The cops and the Sgt will pat each other on the back and make some giggles about mia noi and whiskey, and everyone will go merrily on their ways.

Except this isn't the common type of traffic stop of a drunk cop or policeman who's left to go on his way without repercussions. The bike had dozens of grenades, any one of which would wipe out three large families.

Farang in Bangkok get fined 2,000 baht on the spot for allegedly dropping a cig butt, ...yet a mTan carrying enough ammunition to destroy several villages is allowed to run off like a drunk Thai bus driver who has driven in to a ditch.

[Jerrytheyoung]

A newbie who understands it in a nutshell....welcome to the assylum.

Keystone Cops...and the yes he is, no he isn't captured crim dines out at his favourite Mac on the way home... . ONly in Thailand.

Thank you for your welcome. The moniker I chose was in contradiction to those who thought it cool to be a revolutionary and used similar 'spurious political gods'.

Pol Pot, Mao, and Che - many died following these false icons, but even more of their countrymen died at their hands.

Lies & falsehoods should be challenged - equating the present situation to Pol Pot and taking the country back to 'Year Zero' is patently absurd.

Though as mentioned by Publicus, another low intensity civil war [don't forget the South] is certainly possible.

Should we see the bungled dispersal of the Reds in the Central World area with blood being shed, whilst arsonists set ablaze Bangkok's premium retail temples arousing both the people and serious moneyed interests, we could well see the incipient polarised beginning of a class-base civil war. The best way to nip this flowering poisonous phenomenon would be to round up the leadership.

Staking out McDonalds is not exactly onerous!

However the chances they have had were missed, sometimes clearly intentionally.

Sending in an official without back up to arrest the leaders armed merely with a warrant, was met with the derision it deserved. The embarrassed fellow was fortunate to get away with just a little loss of dignity.

But as mentioned in an important piece on the jockeying factions within the army on the New Mandala site, there are personal interests again stymieing the interests of the nation.

All branches of state's forces of law & order appear to have been suborned to some extent by some interest group be they political, status or moneyed.

The government needs to get serious, with the heads of the armed services both having to get their hands from beneath their buts and take firm action if they & the nation in its present form is to retain any credibility.

First by weeding out all the unreliable elements within the higher echelons of the command structure in both the police & the Army. Why the heads of both services were not fired for the ASEAN debacle is still beyond me? An intelligence service loyal to the government needs to be tasked in tracking down the Red Leadership using both sigint & humint. Snatch squads made up of SF units whose loyalty can be relied upon then tasked to carry out the arrests.

Politically the PM should seek a mandate after a period, when law & order has been restored. A realistic package of social reform would negate the demagogy of the Red Leadership, and show that there are real & better alternatives to Thaksin's front men.

There is a clock counting down to uncertain change in the Kingdom, and time should not be squandered by allowing anarchy to prevail and seditious violent rhetoric to gain the minds of the masses.

The time for procrastination is over and firm but limited targeted action should be at hand, before the sands of time present even more intractable issues into the Thai political arena.

Bonjour,

welcome to the Thai Theater.

Obviously you need to improve your knowledge about how things are working in Thailand. We are not in a Western country and the division is from top to bottom involving all hierarchy levels. Then there are Thai ways for solving issues through background discussions and even old farangs used to Thai tricks may be surprised.

We have no statemen but partisan leaders. Democrats have a long history of corruption /bribing...you need to live in a Northern village during a couple of months to appreciate the 2 speed development of this Country and how miserable is the life of the Issaners. Some on this forum are talking about slavery: it is exagerated, but we are not far. The wealth of Bankokians is built through the exploitation of the Northern Regions and there is no sign of a real will to change it: only cosmetic measures. This low cost workforce is too comfortable...

Edited April 29, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[ChemiseRouge]

Bonjour,

welcome to the Thai Theater.

Obviously you need to improve your knowledge about how things are working in Thailand. We are not in a Western country and the division is from top to bottom involving all hierarchy levels. Then there are Thai ways for solving issues through background discussions and even old farangs used to Thai tricks may be surprised.

We have no statemen but partisan leaders. Democrats have a long history of corruption /bribing...you need to live in a Northern village during a couple of months to appreciate the 2 speed development of this Country and how miserable is the life of the Issaners. Some on this forum are talking about slavery: it is exagerated, but we are not far. The wealth of Bankokians is built through the exploitation of the Northern Regions and there is no sign of a real will to change it: only cosmetic measures. This low cost workforce is too comfortable...

Jerry

Thank you for the background briefing on what has been quite a lesson in Thai theatre/farce.

My bailiwick is Afghanistan where we have to deal with tribalism, Taliban and rampant corruption in what has become a narco failed state.

There are quite a few similarities, though the participants here do not always show their hand and there many opaque layers of alliances

and 'business practices' that leaves a neophyte observer perplexed & frustrated.

I was primarily commenting on the government's inability to regain law & order,

as they clearly have lost the confidence and influence over the Army & Police - if it ever existed at all.

I also felt that there is clearly a need to win 'hearts & minds', due to the vast disparity of wealth which resonates amongst the Reds supporters.

The appearance of a national leader who has the vitality & credibility to stabilize & reunite the nation would be a refreshing change;

rather than a partisan individual who divvies up the spoils amongst the usual power broking cleptocracy,

at the expense of the dispossessed & disenfranchised.

I have no doubt about the life of misery you describe for many up country, whilst the comfort of the Paragon Malling

crowd has been merely inconvenienced.

However I do note that the support from the urban middle class is beginning to turn against the Reds.

Hopefully this could be the catalyst for the street demos to dissipate, without bloodshed

& with the demonstrators returning home in time to plant this year's rice crop.

However it does not mean that their quality of life grievences do not merit addressing.

If anything, these past few weeks should have been a wake-up call to those in the various cliques of

power & privilege to set about real development & reform, if they are to retain their elitist & comfortable lifestyles.

But human nature rarely makes such radical & altruistic changes unless their backs are to the wall,

or, an inspired leader shepherds the nation on such a journey.

A look at the tax base wouldna'e be a bad place to start.

Edited April 29, 2010 by ChemiseRouge

[Jerrytheyoung]

Bonjour,

welcome to the Thai Theater.

Obviously you need to improve your knowledge about how things are working in Thailand. We are not in a Western country and the division is from top to bottom involving all hierarchy levels. Then there are Thai ways for solving issues through background discussions and even old farangs used to Thai tricks may be surprised.

We have no statemen but partisan leaders. Democrats have a long history of corruption /bribing...you need to live in a Northern village during a couple of months to appreciate the 2 speed development of this Country and how miserable is the life of the Issaners. Some on this forum are talking about slavery: it is exagerated, but we are not far. The wealth of Bankokians is built through the exploitation of the Northern Regions and there is no sign of a real will to change it: only cosmetic measures. This low cost workforce is too comfortable...

Jerry

Thank you for the background briefing on what has been quite a lesson in Thai theatre/farce.

My bailiwick is Afghanistan where we have to deal with tribalism, Taliban and rampant corruption in what has become a narco failed state.

There are quite a few similarities, though the participants here do not always show their hand and there many opaque layers of alliances

and 'business practices' that leaves a neophyte observer perplexed & frustrated.

I was primarily commenting on the government's inability to regain law & order,

as they clearly have lost the confidence and influence over the Army & Police - if it ever existed at all.

I also felt that there is clearly a need to win 'hearts & minds', due to the vast disparity of wealth which resonates amongst the Reds supporters.

The appearance of a national leader who has the vitality & credibility to stabilize & reunite the nation would be a refreshing change;

rather than a partisan individual who divvies up the spoils amongst the usual power broking cleptocracy,

at the expense of the dispossessed & disenfranchised.

I have no doubt about the life of misery you describe for many up country, whilst the comfort of the Paragon Malling

crowd has been merely inconvenienced.

However I do note that the support from the urban middle class is beginning to turn against the Reds.

Hopefully this could be the catalyst for the street demos to dissipate, without bloodshed

& with the demonstrators returning home in time to plant this year's rice crop.

However it does not mean that their quality of life grievences do not merit addressing.

If anything, these past few weeks should have been a wake-up call to those in the various cliques of

power & privilege to set about real development & reform, if they are to retain their elitist & comfortable lifestyles.

But human nature rarely makes such radical & altruistic changes unless their backs are to the wall,

or, an inspired leader shepherds the nation on such a journey.

A look at the tax base wouldna'e be a bad place to start.

Do not make some mistakes;

1- Army ad Police are as divided as the Country. Which means we are in a floating atmosphere ;a spark and we can be in a real Civil war, with armed forces on both sides. It is the reason why, we have to help to defuse the situation not to ignite it.

2- The struggle for Power between Democrats and UDD is framed in a situation quite similar to 1933 in Spain when the most important Party has been frustrated from Power by a Coalition. Read the history... It is very parallel.

3- As the Spanish (beautiful people, I like them a lot), Thai people can be very stubborn.

4- Underground there are some manoeuvers about which we cannot openly discussed (censored). However, if you can access some external sources you can get an idea (New Mandala- Australian Website- The Economist....). Sure those informations are only partly reliable but it help you to mitigate your opinion.

5- You are not going to change Thailand. Thais are very proud and do not accept direct interference in their own affairs. There is a Budhist culture superimposing animist believings in Issan, we are not always in the rationale.

6- You make an important appreciation error about Bangkok. Most of the bangkokian workforce is from the Northern regions, girls in the clothe factory/ Electronic Industry, Taxi drivers, Maids. The Red have a very important support in Bangkok. It has been a surprise for a lot of people.

[whybother]

The poor fighting for a better life, thats what the Reds are. Fighting against a military coup paid for by Team Yellow, implemented by Yellow army officers and followed by total abuse of the media and justice system to drag the name of Thaksin through the mud and disgrace him with charges manufactured by the coup appointed government and its legacy.

The Elite need to address the double standards, and allow the people to have their vote again.

The last time there was a "free and fair" election was in 2005, when the Democrats refused to run as they knew they would lose and it appears they paid small parties also not to run in order to "void" the election.

The more recent election which PPP won was actually unfair to PPP, as it was held under basically martial law and everything was done that was possible by team Yellow and the interim coup appointed government to ensure PPP did not win too many seats.

<snip article>

When will you get some semblance of truth in your posts?

The PPP did NOT win the last election. They only got 40% of the vote.

[way2muchcoffee]

The poor fighting for a better life, thats what the Reds are. Fighting against a military coup paid for by Team Yellow, implemented by Yellow army officers and followed by total abuse of the media and justice system to drag the name of Thaksin through the mud and disgrace him with charges manufactured by the coup appointed government and its legacy.

The Elite need to address the double standards, and allow the people to have their vote again.

The last time there was a "free and fair" election was in 2005, when the Democrats refused to run as they knew they would lose and it appears they paid small parties also not to run in order to "void" the election.

The more recent election which PPP won was actually unfair to PPP, as it was held under basically martial law and everything was done that was possible by team Yellow and the interim coup appointed government to ensure PPP did not win too many seats.

<snip article>

When will you get some semblance of truth in your posts?

The PPP did NOT win the last election. They only got 40% of the vote.

The Democrats similarly receive 40% of the voters.

[Jerrytheyoung]

The poor fighting for a better life, thats what the Reds are. Fighting against a military coup paid for by Team Yellow, implemented by Yellow army officers and followed by total abuse of the media and justice system to drag the name of Thaksin through the mud and disgrace him with charges manufactured by the coup appointed government and its legacy.

The Elite need to address the double standards, and allow the people to have their vote again.

The last time there was a "free and fair" election was in 2005, when the Democrats refused to run as they knew they would lose and it appears they paid small parties also not to run in order to "void" the election.

The more recent election which PPP won was actually unfair to PPP, as it was held under basically martial law and everything was done that was possible by team Yellow and the interim coup appointed government to ensure PPP did not win too many seats.

<snip article>

When will you get some semblance of truth in your posts?

The PPP did NOT win the last election. They only got 40% of the vote.

The Democrats similarly receive 40% of the voters.

So the Thai System is not working as it conducts to a huge conflict. The current Government, even "legal", is the result of a politician mangling. We are are on the verge of a Civil war, similarly to Spain in 1933/1936: the Party ahead in the Elections loosing the Power following a mangled coalition.result: 300,000 deads. It is time to stop all this spinning driving to the uncontrollable. Thai election Rules have failed: they have to be rewritten.

A third party has to take over: the sooner the better, for cleaning the situation, rewriting the rules and proceed to fair elections

[whybother]

So the Thai System is not working as it conducts to a huge conflict. The current Government, even "legal", is the result of a politician mangling. We are are on the verge of a Civil war, similarly to Spain in 1933/1936: the Party ahead in the Elections loosing the Power following a mangled coalition.result: 300,000 deads. It is time to stop all this spinning driving to the uncontrollable. Thai election Rules have failed: they have to be rewritten.

A third party has to take over: the sooner the better, for cleaning the situation, rewriting the rules and proceed to fair elections

"Fair" elections will most likely lead to the same result - A coalition government that a minority will not accept.

[thaihome]

International monitoring of Thai processes goes against the culture here in an extreme way. I don't see that happening here.

Actually the 2007 election was monitored by The Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL) on the invitation of the Election Commission. Some 37 monitors from 15 different countries participated. There report was published in March 2008 and is available at their website. The link has been posted on TV before.

TH

[ThaksinKharma]

BANGKOK, Mar 10, 2006 (IPS) -

With all the current news that's out there regarding the situation today, do we really need 4 year old dusty papers? Particularly if it's only to spark the same discussion that's been done to death in 43 recent threads?

Edited April 29, 2010 by ThaksinKharma

[Jerrytheyoung]

So the Thai System is not working as it conducts to a huge conflict. The current Government, even "legal", is the result of a politician mangling. We are are on the verge of a Civil war, similarly to Spain in 1933/1936: the Party ahead in the Elections loosing the Power following a mangled coalition.result: 300,000 deads. It is time to stop all this spinning driving to the uncontrollable. Thai election Rules have failed: they have to be rewritten.

A third party has to take over: the sooner the better, for cleaning the situation, rewriting the rules and proceed to fair elections

"Fair" elections will most likely lead to the same result - A coalition government that a minority will not accept.

You can organise the elections in two rows like in France:

-First row; if a candidate has gotten +50% he is elected

- Second row, negotiation between parties and the candidates may represent alliances: at least people do know for whom they are voting. The Coalition is announced before the second row.

If for some reasons, the government coalition explodes, then we go back to elections.

Everybody knows in advance what is going to be the Coalition.

In Thailand, the coalition has been done on the back of people as the Coalition is a result of mangling after the elections, which is"unfair".

Edited April 29, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[way2muchcoffee]

The poor fighting for a better life, thats what the Reds are. Fighting against a military coup paid for by Team Yellow, implemented by Yellow army officers and followed by total abuse of the media and justice system to drag the name of Thaksin through the mud and disgrace him with charges manufactured by the coup appointed government and its legacy.

The Elite need to address the double standards, and allow the people to have their vote again.

The last time there was a "free and fair" election was in 2005, when the Democrats refused to run as they knew they would lose and it appears they paid small parties also not to run in order to "void" the election.

The more recent election which PPP won was actually unfair to PPP, as it was held under basically martial law and everything was done that was possible by team Yellow and the interim coup appointed government to ensure PPP did not win too many seats.

<snip article>

When will you get some semblance of truth in your posts?

The PPP did NOT win the last election. They only got 40% of the vote.

The Democrats similarly receive 40% of the voters.

So the Thai System is not working as it conducts to a huge conflict. The current Government, even "legal", is the result of a politician mangling. We are are on the verge of a Civil war, similarly to Spain in 1933/1936: the Party ahead in the Elections loosing the Power following a mangled coalition.result: 300,000 deads. It is time to stop all this spinning driving to the uncontrollable. Thai election Rules have failed: they have to be rewritten.

A third party has to take over: the sooner the better, for cleaning the situation, rewriting the rules and proceed to fair elections

I don't disagree at least in principle. The country is in a deep and dangerous quagmire. Do you believe the red shirt leaders would accept a unity government lasting for 6 months to a year? PTP? Democrats? How about the smaller parties? PAD? Military? Higher institutions? There are so many players with vested interests here and a unity government under someone like Anand would only work if all parties agree.

[whybother]

So the Thai System is not working as it conducts to a huge conflict. The current Government, even "legal", is the result of a politician mangling. We are are on the verge of a Civil war, similarly to Spain in 1933/1936: the Party ahead in the Elections loosing the Power following a mangled coalition.result: 300,000 deads. It is time to stop all this spinning driving to the uncontrollable. Thai election Rules have failed: they have to be rewritten.

A third party has to take over: the sooner the better, for cleaning the situation, rewriting the rules and proceed to fair elections

"Fair" elections will most likely lead to the same result - A coalition government that a minority will not accept.

You can organise the elections in two rows like in France:

-First row; if a candidate has gotten +50% he is elected

- Second row, negotiation between parties and the candidates may represent alliances: at least people do know for whom they are voting. The Coalition is announced before the second row.

If for some reasons, the government coalition explodes, then we go back to elections.

Everybody knows in advance what is going to be the Coalition.

In Thailand, the coalition has been done on the back of people as the Coalition is a result of mangling after the elections, which is"unfair".

The setting up of the PPP coalition government was a result of mangling after the elections. It seemed "fair" to the reds then.

edit: yes, there are plenty of ways the system can be changed, but no system will give everyone the government who they want.

Edited April 29, 2010 by whybother

[way2muchcoffee]

Very interesting. I was just reading the report from the ANFREL Group who were contracted to observe the 2007 elections. Evidently the present constitution has removed the need of a university degree to hold an MP position. I wasn't aware of this.

As the table below shows, many more parties and candidates contested the election in 2007 as

compared with 2005, despite the fact that fewer seats were available. This is particularly true

for constituency list seats. This is due to a number of factors, including the withdrawal of the

demand that candidates hold a Bachelor’s degree (over 30% of candidates did not hold one),

as well as the fact that the law required parties to field a full team of candidates in any given

constituency. In some cases, this lead to parties enlisting the candidacy of individuals who

were not viable candidates, simply to fulfill the requirements of the law.

http://www.anfrel.org/report/2007.asp

The quote is from page 13 of the pdf version of the report.

Edited April 29, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Jerrytheyoung]

I don't disagree at least in principle. The country is in a deep and dangerous quagmire. Do you believe the red shirt leaders would accept a unity government lasting for 6 months to a year? PTP? Democrats? How about the smaller parties? PAD? Military? Higher institutions? There are so many players with vested interests here and a unity government under someone like Anand would only work if all parties agree.

I do think that there are responsible People in Thailand and that if they have the opportunity they may get out from the current mess.

To answer to your questions, I have met general Chavalit, (2 or 3 years ago) and for me he is a very responsible man, (even if like everybody he has made some errors in the past). I do believe as representative of the Red Shirts, he can successfully participate to a discussion and arrives to a positive solution. I do believe that other Red Shirt leaders will follow him. Jakunaporn seems to be a great leader, not too much excited, I do think he can also play a role: but this is my personal opinion: I am not in touch with those people.

ANAND seems to be the man of the situation.

To put ANAND in position, there are probably several possibilities. I see one: ANUPONG taking over and installing ANAND for few months until elections are organised. This has also the advantage to re-unite Army which is on the verge of dismemberment.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[A_Traveller]

^^ It is an interesting aside that the self described "Peoples Constitution" required a completed tertiary degree for anyone wishing to be elected to the House, whereas the replacement charter removed that requirement. However, the tertiary requirement remains for Ministers.

Regard

Edited April 29, 2010 by A_Traveller

[SomTumTiger]

I looked out front door, and walked around the neighborhood. Where is this anarchy people keep talking about?

[jdinasia]

I don't disagree at least in principle. The country is in a deep and dangerous quagmire. Do you believe the red shirt leaders would accept a unity government lasting for 6 months to a year? PTP? Democrats? How about the smaller parties? PAD? Military? Higher institutions? There are so many players with vested interests here and a unity government under someone like Anand would only work if all parties agree.

I do think that there are responsible People in Thailand and that if they have the opportunity they may get out from the current mess.

To answer to your questions, I have met general Chavalit, (2 or 3 years ago) and for me he is a very responsible man, (even if like everybody he has made some errors in the past). I do believe as representative of the Red Shirts, he can successfully participate to a discussion and arrives to a positive solution. I do believe that other Red Shirt leaders will follow him. Jakunaporn seems to be a great leader, not too much excited, I do think he can also play a role: but this is my personal opinion: I am not in touch with those people.

ANAND seems to be the man of the situation.

To put ANAND in position, there are probably several possibilities. I see one: ANUPONG taking over and installing ANAND for few months until elections are organised. This has also the advantage to re-unite Army which is on the verge of dismemberment.

So you are ...

1) Coming out in favor of a Coup?

2) Stating Anand should be PM even though he has not been elected by anyone and has said that House Dissolution is NOT the answer?

[SomTumTiger]

I wonder if anyone has thought that planting season is coming up soon, and the Reds will probably lose half their strength in the coming days and weeks.

[way2muchcoffee]

I wonder if anyone has thought that planting season is coming up soon, and the Reds will probably lose half their strength in the coming days and weeks.

There is that. But even sooner schools are about to open. Many, many parents in BKK are fearful to send their kids to school under the present circumstances. There are many schools in the vicinity of the demonstrations. Many students take buses that will have to pass through there. Many students take the BTS. Then there is the doubling of rush hour traffic that occurs when school is in session. I can't help but feel that the government is under enormous pressure to clean this up before mid-May.

[whiterussian]

Meanwhile on twitter, the hi-so twits are weighing up the gravity of the situation:

veen_NT RT @tulsathit: TR @Naya_nna: Have talked to some1 close to Pojaman. Family arriving inHK but trips got noth 2do w. rumoured Thaksin illness

veen_NT @veen_NT @tri26 @tulsathit UDDThailand Facebook page blocked on 3bb connection. Others reporting same. Anyone else?>>anyone?

TAN_Network The Sangha Supreme Council allows authorities to arrest monks joining in political rallies on site

veen_NT Central Chidlom is very quiet -only a few shoppers and the store is now playing "Rak Kan Wai Terd" song!!

veen_NT RT @VisitThailandTR: @veen_NT any extra discounts veen? Not at Emporium but check this out: http://bit.ly/auARpr

Gossip News: Fashion Warehouse Sale! Save Up to 90% Until May 31, 2010

Edited April 29, 2010 by whiterussian

[SomTumTiger]

I have a tweet for you - Let peace and compassion reign over the land. Now pass the Heineken

[Jerrytheyoung]

I don't disagree at least in principle. The country is in a deep and dangerous quagmire. Do you believe the red shirt leaders would accept a unity government lasting for 6 months to a year? PTP? Democrats? How about the smaller parties? PAD? Military? Higher institutions? There are so many players with vested interests here and a unity government under someone like Anand would only work if all parties agree.

I do think that there are responsible People in Thailand and that if they have the opportunity they may get out from the current mess.

To answer to your questions, I have met general Chavalit, (2 or 3 years ago) and for me he is a very responsible man, (even if like everybody he has made some errors in the past). I do believe as representative of the Red Shirts, he can successfully participate to a discussion and arrives to a positive solution. I do believe that other Red Shirt leaders will follow him. Jakunaporn seems to be a great leader, not too much excited, I do think he can also play a role: but this is my personal opinion: I am not in touch with those people.

ANAND seems to be the man of the situation.

To put ANAND in position, there are probably several possibilities. I see one: ANUPONG taking over and installing ANAND for few months until elections are organised. This has also the advantage to re-unite Army which is on the verge of dismemberment.

So you are ...

1) Coming out in favor of a Coup?

2) Stating Anand should be PM even though he has not been elected by anyone and has said that House Dissolution is NOT the answer?

taking into account the situation and trying to avoid the worse, Anand is certanly the man of the situation for preparing Elections. The Election Rules have failed as they conduct to conflicts. Mangling after elections is unfair, the Coalition should be known before and in case the coalition explodes, again election ....this is democracy

Abhisit as PM is the result of a political mangling which is not respecting the will of the voters (even if his Election is Legal, it lacks Legitimacy).

Edited April 29, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[whybother]

taking into account the situation and trying to avoid the worse, Anand is certanly the man of the situation for preparing Elections. The Election Rules have failed has they conduct to conflicts. Mangling after elections is unfair, the Coalition should be known before and in case the coalition explodes, again election ....this is democracy

Abhisit as PM is the result of a political mangling which is not respecting the will of the voters (even if his Election is Legal, it lacks Legitimacy).

How is the "political mangling" that brought Abhisit to power different to that which brought Samak or Somchai to power?

[A_Traveller]

Just to add, on the political management front, it should be recalled that at least one of the coalition parties which joined with Samak had openly campaigned on a platform that they would not enter into such a coalition.

One could argue even more strongly that their voters were roundly ignored, since maybe they would not have voted for them if they know they would subsequently join forces.

Regards

Edited April 29, 2010 by A_Traveller