Thai PM Abhisit Says Seeking Political Solution To Crisis

[way2muchcoffee]

Something from Red Shirts Today thread

Reds dismiss claim they plan to harm monarchy

Red shirt leaders denied on Tuesday their involvement in a campaign designed to overthrow the monarchy and threatened to sue the government for defamation.

Redshirt leader Natthawut Saikua said none of the reds were linked in any attempts to harm the monarchy.

He said portraying the reds as disloyal to the monarchy was just a figment of the government's and the military's imagination, adding that the reds had instructed their lawyers to initiate a defamation lawsuit.

He went on to question why the authorities were labelling the reds as terrorists when those involved in violence in the three southernmost provinces were classified as insurgents.

Redshirt leader weng Tojirakarn said the reds were struggling to achieve six goals, none of which was about overthrowing the monarchy as alleged.

Could this be the governments last card?

I see they provide ZERO evidence to back it up!

Hmmm maybe, but it seemed to be enough for Newin to put his cards on the table.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...y-30128124.html

I wouldn't put much stock in the actions of Newin. He's a bit of an opportunist.

On the other hand there is likely something to all this, to some extent or other. There have been things in The Economist, New Mandala, Bankok Pundit, Nation Blog, The Nation, and The Bangkok Post along similar lines. We obviously can't discuss much on this particular topic so I'll leave it there.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[hextac]

Redshirt leader weng Tojirakarn said the reds were struggling to achieve six goals, none of which was about overthrowing the monarchy as alleged.

Haha, because they would enroll much support by stating that as a goal, right?

"The reds/Thaksin don't want to overhtrow the monarchy! they swear!"

then it must be true, right?

I really don't understand why the reds cannot just wait for the planned election date to come by and prepare for the campaign instead of pissing people off.

Red apologists: please explain why they cannot just wait.

Yellow apologists please explain why they have to wait...

[Rinrada]

Compromise.......nice little word with a straightforward meaning and easy to say especially for an English born educated gentleman now hoofing it as a PM.......suggest 1st August..would be acceptable.....maybe.....chai./mai chai...cha...

[whiterussian]

Compromise.......nice little word with a straightforward meaning and easy to say especially for an English born educated gentleman now hoofing it as a PM.......suggest 1st August..would be acceptable.....maybe.....chai./mai chai...cha...

World cup finishes 11th july, gives everybody just over two weeks to sober up for polling day! Hooray for democracy!

[tgw]

Redshirt leader weng Tojirakarn said the reds were struggling to achieve six goals, none of which was about overthrowing the monarchy as alleged.

Haha, because they would enroll much support by stating that as a goal, right?

"The reds/Thaksin don't want to overhtrow the monarchy! they swear!"

then it must be true, right?

I really don't understand why the reds cannot just wait for the planned election date to come by and prepare for the campaign instead of pissing people off.

Red apologists: please explain why they cannot just wait.

Yellow apologists please explain why they have to wait...

So you mean any mob should be able to call new elections?

Don't try to deflect the question: why can't they just wait and get their "overwhelming victory" in a year?

Edited April 27, 2010 by tgw

[LevelHead]

Newin

Many people have not expressed surprise that the "acquitted of the rubber tree scandal" Newin led MP's to join the un-holy coalition.

Scratch yours if you scratch mine stuff..........

[way2muchcoffee]

Newin

Many people have not expressed surprise that the "acquitted of the rubber tree scandal" Newin led MP's to join the un-holy coalition.

Scratch yours if you scratch mine stuff..........

Ahh yes.

Newin - Thaksin's protege and former right hand man for several years.

Thaksin - Chief Executive Officer and symbolic leader of the red shirt movement.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[LevelHead]

Good to see. No more violence lets hope.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=...7001〈=e

Amnesty International USA Media Statement

Tuesday, April 27, 2010

Amnesty International USA Urges President Obama to Send a Special Envoy to Thailand

Contact: AIUSA media office, 202-509-8194

(Washington, DC) - T. Kumar, director for international advocacy for Amnesty International USA, issued the following statement in response to anti-government protests in Thailand:

"As tens of thousands of "red shirt" protesters of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) continue their standoff with the Thai military, Amnesty International USA (AIUSA) calls on President Barack Obama to immediately dispatch a U.S. senior envoy to Thailand to help diffuse the conflict."

"Thailand is one of the United States' strongest allies, and President Obama cannot be a spectator in this volatile situation."

"AIUSA urges President Obama to ensure that Thai forces do not use U.S. weapons and ammunition against peaceful protesters and to call on opposition leaders to ask their supporters to refrain from violence."

[lannarebirth]

Newin

Many people have not expressed surprise that the "acquitted of the rubber tree scandal" Newin led MP's to join the un-holy coalition.

Scratch yours if you scratch mine stuff..........

Ahh yes.

Newin - Thaksin's protege and former right hand man for several years.

Thaksin - Chief Executive Officer and symbolic leader of the red shirt movement.

Lynch pin of each coalition. Its got a nice circularity to it.

[LevelHead]

For those who want an opinion on the low down of who the black shirts on April 10th were, the following link might help.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/04/27/

Perhaps reading any article about the Army...... ? Obviously I do not condone what is written in various places on the site, however it is an opinion of some posters, not me, and one based on "speaking with generals" who do not want to be named. Might be interesting to some.

.

Edited April 27, 2010 by LevelHead

[mommysboy]

To my mind we're now entering the end game, and I just wonder what the body count will be, 10, 100, 1000, who knows! Very sobering.

[retdson]

For those who want an opinion on the low down of who the black shirts on April 10th were, the following link might help.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/04/27/

Perhaps reading any article about the Army...... ? Obviously I do not condone what is written in various places on the site, however it is an opinion of some posters, not me, and one based on "speaking with generals" who do not want to be named. Might be interesting to some.

.

Thanks for the link - a very interesting article with a loud ring of truth to it. On another note, below is a quote from the comments page on another article there that I'm cutting and pasting. The original poster asks if the quote 'sounds familiar'. Uncannily so to this poster.

(From Total War – Peter Calvocoressi and Guy Winter –

discussing the events and social changes which led to

the outbreak of war in Europe in 1939)

QUOTE:”The new urban classes began to exert pressure and

command sympathy. What they wanted was vague – less

misery and poverty, more fairness, more self-respect –

but it implied upheaval. The traditional givers of laws

amd mores (churches, kings and nobles), and the laws and

the mores themselves, lost authority under rational

scrutiny and popular suspicion. It was not immediately

clear what the new values were nor where they were to

come from. New elites, professing a democratic instead

of an aristocratic faith, emerged to take or share the

power which was slipping from the exclusive grasp of the

old regime and which, owing to technical revolutions in

communication and manufacturing, was rapidly becoming

much greater than before.”

Sounds familiar?

Edited April 27, 2010 by retdson

[Publicus]

Good to see. No more violence lets hope.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=...7001〈=e

Amnesty International USA Media Statement

Tuesday, April 27, 2010

Amnesty International USA Urges President Obama to Send a Special Envoy to Thailand

Contact: AIUSA media office, 202-509-8194

(Washington, DC) - T. Kumar, director for international advocacy for Amnesty International USA, issued the following statement in response to anti-government protests in Thailand:

"As tens of thousands of "red shirt" protesters of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) continue their standoff with the Thai military, Amnesty International USA (AIUSA) calls on President Barack Obama to immediately dispatch a U.S. senior envoy to Thailand to help diffuse the conflict."

"Thailand is one of the United States' strongest allies, and President Obama cannot be a spectator in this volatile situation."

"AIUSA urges President Obama to ensure that Thai forces do not use U.S. weapons and ammunition against peaceful protesters and to call on opposition leaders to ask their supporters to refrain from violence."

It's amazing how some can find some usefulness in the United States when it's for their own purposes.

Better, I think, the counry should surrender to the Europan Union, the United States and Canada. It did wonders for Japan, Germany, or being mentored by the US certainly helped S Korea, Taiwan and a few other places.

Or maybe Montenegro could send a special envoy to the former LOS.

[ralphlsasser]

If they [the UDD] continue in their unlawful terrorist actions they will leave the military and government no other choice but to act. So if Abhisit and Anupong are stalling then more power to them. But the time is running out for all parties. Tick tock, tick tock....

I'm trying to think of one major crime that has not already been committed by the UDD

- murder of Army personnel (April 10)

- intimidation of the public

- armed insurrection by commandeering police and army equipment, including weapons

- killing of citizens (BTS Sala Daeng)l

- kidnapping (EC commissioner, police at the SC Hotel fiasco)

- usurping the power of the state (stopping and searching motorists and pedestrians, preventing the police and military from carrying out their duties)

- impeding people and businesses from going about their lawful rights (such as closing down Central Chitlom, and BTS today)

- erecting barricades in public places

Given this list, I'm wondering what ELSE has to happen before the military 'have no choice'??? Haven't we already gone LONG past that point, and don't the reds already know it. Abhisit and Anupong are living in a dream world in the 11th Army Regiment barracks, hoping that if they just keep singing 'la-la-lala-la' with their eyes closed for long enough the reds will go away. It's not going to happen. The reds are going to keep provoking until they either run the country de facto by taking over the duties of the security forces or the PAD and other citizens start fighting them in the streets.

The government has already fallen. What remains to be seen is who will fill the power vacuum?

Typical of Thailand. Just stick our heads in the sand and it will go away.

[gregb]

If they [the UDD] continue in their unlawful terrorist actions they will leave the military and government no other choice but to act. So if Abhisit and Anupong are stalling then more power to them. But the time is running out for all parties. Tick tock, tick tock....

I'm trying to think of one major crime that has not already been committed by the UDD

- murder of Army personnel (April 10)

- intimidation of the public

- armed insurrection by commandeering police and army equipment, including weapons

- killing of citizens (BTS Sala Daeng)l

- kidnapping (EC commissioner, police at the SC Hotel fiasco)

- usurping the power of the state (stopping and searching motorists and pedestrians, preventing the police and military from carrying out their duties)

- impeding people and businesses from going about their lawful rights (such as closing down Central Chitlom, and BTS today)

- erecting barricades in public places

Given this list, I'm wondering what ELSE has to happen before the military 'have no choice'??? Haven't we already gone LONG past that point, and don't the reds already know it. Abhisit and Anupong are living in a dream world in the 11th Army Regiment barracks, hoping that if they just keep singing 'la-la-lala-la' with their eyes closed for long enough the reds will go away. It's not going to happen. The reds are going to keep provoking until they either run the country de facto by taking over the duties of the security forces or the PAD and other citizens start fighting them in the streets.

The government has already fallen. What remains to be seen is who will fill the power vacuum?

Typical of Thailand. Just stick our heads in the sand and it will go away.

I have high hopes that whatever was standing in the way of the government acting will now be put aside.

The two stories on the front page of the Nation today:

"2 Interior Ministry officials close to Bhum Jai Thai get promotions"

followed closely by:

"Newin vows to protect the monarchy"

Seems to indicate that there may have been some internal problems preventing the government from acting decisively. Let us see if this new found bond strengthens the resolve of those in charge to force the red hoodlums back into the confines of law and order.

We can only hope.

[gharknes]

Thai PM says he is seeking political resolution to opposition standoff

(CNN) -- Thailand's prime minister said Monday that his government is working to achieve normalcy in the country

amid massive opposition protests, but warned it will take "time, patience and cooperation" from all parties involved.

Story and Video continues: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/...dex.html?hpt=T2

-- 2010-04-27

simple truth relating to current administration................thailand is lawless right now.

[Bruce1]

The government has a budget to get through and an Army reshuffle to complete.

Elections under the present rules would see the pro-Thaksin group grab a large number of seats, although maybe not a majority since their reputation has been dented by their current behaviour. So there could be a chaotic parliament and real compromises would be necessary to form a government.

It would be much better to set up an independent constitutional commission and give it 12 months to consult and form a new constitution, hopefully one more democratic than the current one. But the Reds don't want that because they're afraid the government would manipulate the process to exclude them, I assume.

No country can remain stable if any any mob (Yellow, Red, whatever) thinks it can make trouble and succeed in ousting the government and taking over.

[btunes]

Abhisit just has to swallow his pride and make way for elections.

Simple as that.

Yup

[kevkev1888]

Just seen an advert on BBC World News.

Abhisit to be on the show Hard Talk.

Today I think?

Not sure what time.

[bulmercke]

Just seen an advert on BBC World News.

Abhisit to be on the show Hard Talk.

Today I think?

Not sure what time.

Abhisit appears on BBC and CNN

A press release from the BBC states that Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is to appear on HARDtalk today to discuss the current political crisis in Thailand.The scheduled broadcast times are: 1930 GMT Tuesday 27 April 2010 on BBC World News, repeated 0330 Wednesday 28th April, 0830 Wednesday 28th April and 15:30 Wednesday 28th April 2010.

Abhisit has been on an international media blitz. He’s also on CNN, with video. Christiane Amanpour’s full interview with Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva at 3 p.m. EST Tuesday (2100 CET) and 8 a.m. EST Wednesday (2 p.m. CET).

Edited April 28, 2010 by bulmercke

[OzMick]

Newin

Interesting choice. My initial response was to reject this possibly out of hand. I mean Newin? Really? But on second thought he controls a political stronghold at the mouth of Isaan. He might be the kind of person who would appeal to the rural people who largely despise the Democrats at this point. Difficult to say. I haven't been able to get a sense of how his defection from the PPP has affected his popularity. I can see the appeal of this choice amongst the power brokers, but personally I don't think I could support this man. Seems a bit of a slimeball.

way2much, you are looking at Isaan the wrong way round. It's not the mouth, it's the orifice at the other end!

[OzMick]

abhisit just go put n call election well hes not going to as if he did he will be in jail for coruption thats why why do you think he wont leave coruption thats why he will stay on until hes as fat as a pig people think about this this is thailand corupt rule and why the yellow shirt do it in the first place because there are some who is prevented from eating money simple do you think they do it for the people wake up guys

your keyboard doesn't have punctuation? Here's some you can cut and paste , . ? ' ; : !

[tonywebster]

Just seen an advert on BBC World News.

Abhisit to be on the show Hard Talk.

Today I think?

Not sure what time.

Abhisit appears on BBC and CNN

A press release from the BBC states that Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is to appear on HARDtalk today to discuss the current political crisis in Thailand.The scheduled broadcast times are: 1930 GMT Tuesday 27 April 2010 on BBC World News, repeated 0330 Wednesday 28th April, 0830 Wednesday 28th April and 15:30 Wednesday 28th April 2010.

Abhisit has been on an international media blitz. He’s also on CNN, with video. Christiane Amanpour’s full interview with Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva at 3 p.m. EST Tuesday (2100 CET) and 8 a.m. EST Wednesday (2 p.m. CET).

May as well just read the Nation as it will be the same old propaganda <deleted> devoid of any facts, hopefully the journalist sticks it to him and asks him some difficult questions rather than just sits there and lets him spout his lies.

[bulmercke]

(From thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/

The BBC press release has these interesting tidbits:

“Zeinab Badawi: If you truly believed yourself that you were an obstacle to Thailand recovering and getting some kind of stability, would you step down?

Abhisit Vejjajiva: Of course. I’ve never put my interests above the country’s.”

PPT: Interesting response. Make of it what you will, but we think Abhisit believes he is the only one capable of saving the ruling class.

“We are in agreement at the moment that the problems we are seeing is not a purely political problem. There are security problems involved, there are terrorist problems involved. We need to tackle all those issues at the same time. When we talk about the stability everyone wants to achieve, not a short term stability waiting for the problem, the same problem to be repeated again and again. I think at the moment all sides need to take into account the views of the other sides and find a reasonable solution. That’s what I’m aiming for and I’m sure that’s what the majority of Thai people want us to do.”

PPT: Nothing new here.

“ZB: Thaksin Shinawatra removed in September 2006 by the miliatry…you are a direct beneficiary of that because you came to power without an election and people don’t like that.

AV: That’s not right, that’s not right. Thaksin was removed from power in fact he was only an acting Prime minster because the elections were going to be held and then after the coup they had a referendum on the new constitution. A referendum passed that constitution, we had fresh elections, it returned a parliament that was a hung parliament which actually arguably you could argue that Thaksin’s party actually took some of the minor parties who during the election campaigned, people who defected from that party.”

PPT: Can’t wait to see this response in video form. But it shows Abhisit is befuddled by his own rationalization of his rise to power. “Actually arguably you could argue that” Abhisit doesn’t know how his parliamentary system under the 2007 junta constitution works. A hung parliament is one in which no party has an overall majority and where the government will not be able to win votes to pass laws without the support of members of other parties. However, in Thailand’s case in 2007, prior to parliament convening, a coalition government was formed, meaning that there was no “hung parliament.” As far as PPT can recall, no one defected from other parties to join the PPP. In fact, this kind of coalition government has been the standard form in Thailand, with only the parliaments convened following elections under the 1997 Constitution being different.

“ZB: But it doesn’t look like that, (referring to AV saying that they are doing their best to make sure there will be no clashes between the two groups) quoted on the Reuters news wire April the 25th Thailand’s top broker Kim Eng Securities said ‘escalated political violence could lead to civil war’. That’s a pretty strong statement there.

AV: It is and it’s the result of protestors trying to escalate the level of violence and tension and it has obviously met with a stronger reaction from the rest of the population from the public in general who do not want to tolerate illegal activities. What the government is trying to do now is telling the public that it is up to us officials and people who need to restore order to do our job. They can express their opinions but they should avoid any kind of confrontation. We are aiming to restore order as soon as possible but at the same time we have to be aware of the need to make sure that there will be minimum losses and to make sure that we comply with international standards and respect the basic rights of people including those of the protestors.”

PPT: Abhisit can do little more than blame the protesters for violence, for illegality and so on as he needs to whitewash his own culpability. We think the exaggeration of “stronger reaction” is wishful thinking or tunnel vision.

Update 1: Abhisit has been on an international media blitz. He’s also on CNN, with video. Christiane Amanpour’s full interview with Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva at 3 p.m. EST Tuesday (2100 CET) and 8 a.m. EST Wednesday (2 p.m. CET). It is not really comforting to know that the law and order conservative is trying “to enforce the law with minimum losses…”.

Abhisit’s repeated claims that his government is not illegitimate, by saying “We assumed office under the same means, under the same rules, by the same vote of parliament as the two previous administrations” elected after the coup tends to ignore quite a lot and assumes that viewers are gullible.

Update 2: With respect to minimum losses, mentioned in the previous update, this is in the context of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation, preparing to disperse red shirt protesters from the Rajaprasong area, authorizing the use of live bullets. This is no different from 10 April, but the announcement in advance is intimidating and demands a response from protesters (who will have assumed live rounds anyway). The details are a little different however: “If an attacker comes within 100 metres, officials will fire tear gas first, but if he comes closer, within 30 metres, guns may be fired…”.

Update 3: In The Nation, Abhisit has declared his duty as “to protect the system and the country, not to fight over political issues…”. It is also stated that the police and military from upcountry on their way to Bangkok are “reinforcements.”

Edited April 28, 2010 by bulmercke

[Ricardo]

What a lot forget is the evidence against the excecs in both cases was slam dunk level. The PPP one was an outrageous attempt to undermine the democraqtic process in multiple districts. Apart form the contropvery in the whole party disolution stuff the two actual cases should be celebrated as moves forward in Thai democracy. Of course you cannot find anyone who claims to be a democracy activist in the whole country who sees it this way which is kind of odd. The culture is well everyone is at it. So what if we get caught. It is no big deal. It is unfair because others werent caught.

The Demo case will be interesting as the evidence is very weak but the poltical pressure from every side will be to do it. Still both the othjer cases took 9 months so anything less thna that would be a double stanbdard and unacceptable to any true democracy activist or anti-double standard campaigner not that the country really has any of those

"The two actual cases should be celebrated as moves forward in Thai democracy."

Quite right, hammered.

In the absence of some major revolutionary step-change, in Thai politics & corruption, such as Weera's "new Thai state", which carries with it the strong risk of civil-war or anarchy or even a dictatorship, small steps in the right direction should be welcomed.

The work of the E.C., over the past five years, has been a series of these small (individually) but I believe significant (overall) steps in the right direction, punishing parties & individual-MPs who have tried to continue with old-fashioned corruption-politics.

I'd say that the 5-year-bans have helped send a strong signal, which PPP amongst others were unfortunately slow or unwilling to pick-up, that things have changed. If the Dems are found to have sinned & are then banned, then I'd welcome that equally, as real progress.

I'd add that finding a former-PM guilty, of having abused his political-position for personal-gain & to benefit his family or political-friends, is another striking example of this trend. It shows that nobody in political-life is above the law. It should be encouraged and applauded, by all who support the development of Thai democracy, or want to see change here.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Ricardo

[rixalex]

Just seen an advert on BBC World News.

Abhisit to be on the show Hard Talk.

Today I think?

Not sure what time.

Abhisit appeared on that show last year. Unusually for Hardtalk, it was a bit dull. Hope today's is a bit more lively.

One thing they don't do on Hardtalk is pull any punches. Previous Thai PM's have refused to appear on the show, and i don't think that was so much to do with their lack of command of English, but rather lack of control of the questions.

[OzMick]

In his first week in power over a year ago he announced how his main goal was to find National reconciliation and how he would actively work towards this. Has he succeeded so far?

That was at the same press meeting where he vowed to bring the PAD protestors who closed the airport to justice.

In the same afternoon he announced his new Foriegn Minister would be Kasit Promiya (PAD Spokesman)

YES

I clearly remember him saying that national reconciliation was his top priority. If he had actually meant it, he would have started negotiations looooooooooong ago. (and yes, that includes negotiations with Thaksin. but as usual, Abhisit was extremely stubborn about not negotiating with Thaksin - a big mistake as it turns out).

Now time has run out and he is scrambling. Its irresponsible.

Kasit was never a PAD spokesman.

He never was a PAD organizer.

Nor a PAD decision maker of any sort.

He did make a few speaches from PAD statges,

but not as a PAD member, strictly as a guest speaker.

Mostly anti-Thaksin and anti- Prah Veahar give away.

Kasit was never a PAD spokesman, nor any form of representative of PAD

Didn't he say it was good fun?

And how many posters have said the current circus is just a big party, peaceful people singing and dancing, good clean fun - well, delete clean.

[OzMick]

Something from Red Shirts Today thread

Reds dismiss claim they plan to harm monarchy

Red shirt leaders denied on Tuesday their involvement in a campaign designed to overthrow the monarchy and threatened to sue the government for defamation.

Redshirt leader Natthawut Saikua said none of the reds were linked in any attempts to harm the monarchy.

He said portraying the reds as disloyal to the monarchy was just a figment of the government's and the military's imagination, adding that the reds had instructed their lawyers to initiate a defamation lawsuit.

He went on to question why the authorities were labelling the reds as terrorists when those involved in violence in the three southernmost provinces were classified as insurgents.

Redshirt leader weng Tojirakarn said the reds were struggling to achieve six goals, none of which was about overthrowing the monarchy as alleged.

Well they would, wouldn't they. Did you expect them to say that it's true, and get strung up to the nearest light pole by their own supporters?

[PEP]

Typical of Thailand. Just stick our heads in the sand and it will go away.

Yes, Fellas and Ladies, Just join us with "our heads in the sand". It will amaze you how crowded it is here!

[RickBradford]

Seems to indicate that there may have been some internal problems preventing the government from acting decisively

How about: Army chief Anupong is retiring in a few months time, and doesn't want to be seen as 'the people-killer'. because he wants a quiet retirement, free from deadly revenge taken by relatives of the people killed?