Open Letter To Red-Shirt Leader Dr Weng Tojirakarn

[retarius]

Now why on earth would the NATION dredge up one of Weng's old teachers from years back and use him to call on the red shirts to back down, and not the government. Strange how the NATION would take a position like that, when it is normally so neutral.

If I didn't know you better I'd be tempted to think you were being cynical

[RussellHantz]

Veerasak talks a lot about the need to find a solution, yet his whole letter is geared around playing the blame game.

If he were sincere about finding a solution, he would write something a more constructive.

[Koh_Falang]

Veerasak talks a lot about the need to find a solution, yet his whole letter is geared around playing the blame game.

If he were sincere about finding a solution, he would write something a more constructive.

Hmm i do think he has a few ideas but its hard to suggest somethign when so many emotions are flying...

I think its a good idea to get someone on side first before offering a solution...

PS i dont see any blame being pointed... Can you point to which part you are referring to?

[clockworkorange]

Veerasak was a student activist under Weng and no vice versa. They have once be sharing the same cause.

Once??? You mean back in 1969. Wasn't that the year that they first put a man on the moon?

How can the NATION expect us to take it seriously? Quoting some old relic school teacher from 1969 as in any way relevant to Weng in the present day?

Holding up as valid some obscure nobody who used to hang out with Weng in 1969 is just plain silly. Implying that he is a relevant social commentator, simply because he once knew Weng and now has a little yellow flag, is just another feeble ploy by the NATION to make us believe that it is still a newspaper.

[Koh_Falang]

Veerasak was a student activist under Weng and no vice versa. They have once be sharing the same cause.

Once??? You mean back in 1969. Wasn't that the year that they first put a man on the moon?

How can the NATION expect us to take it seriously? Quoting some old relic school teacher from 1969 as in any way relevant to Weng in the present day?

Holding up as valid some obscure nobody who used to hang out with Weng in 1969 is just plain silly. Implying that he is a relevant social commentator, simply because he once knew Weng and now has a little yellow flag, is just another feeble ploy by the NATION to make us believe that it is still a newspaper.

Hmm bitter much?

Why is it relevant as to when he taught at school?

[allthai]

Dear Dr. Veerasak, I`am only farang, and I read your opinion, you wrote "Thai society is greatly damaged", this is very true, but since when,you write since reds voting for their rights, you don`t realy believe this, I think the damage starts many years ago up to today, the ordenery citizen don`t have a law, only the upper class use the law as their act as one thinks best, the law is deeply korrupted and not existing for the poor people, in this case more and more people are making their own justice. and if you talk, this is special Thai, sorry, now we are living in 20th century, and we have to learn from the past. I hope, I don`t give you a surprise, sorry I`am only farang, and I wish all Thai citizen to come back for a unique happy country, with a commen law for all.

Edited April 28, 2010 by allthai

[ETatBKK]

a nice intention for asking for peace ! this intelligence letter would certainly touch many hearts of us ( while we are sitting calmly in front of our computers ).

what would be the effect to whom still in the protest, to whom with the hot hearts of victory, to whom with grenades on their hads, to whom with families and friends as victims so far ?

also, how this works ( or not ) in the Thai culture ? I don't have any idea !

[shawndoc]

Someone calls for peace in a calm, polite manner and people on TV rip him apart. Just wow.

[clockworkorange]

Veerasak was a student activist under Weng and no vice versa. They have once be sharing the same cause.

Once??? You mean back in 1969. Wasn't that the year that they first put a man on the moon?

How can the NATION expect us to take it seriously? Quoting some old relic school teacher from 1969 as in any way relevant to Weng in the present day?

Holding up as valid some obscure nobody who used to hang out with Weng in 1969 is just plain silly. Implying that he is a relevant social commentator, simply because he once knew Weng and now has a little yellow flag, is just another feeble ploy by the NATION to make us believe that it is still a newspaper.

Hmm bitter much?

Why is it relevant as to when he taught at school?

Pardon the emphasis, but I'm just amazed at how an outfit that still calls itself a sensible newspaper can support such a deplorably poor quality of journalism, and I'm saddened at how the Nation has declined so much from the great publication that it once was.

Only yesterday, it was quoting anonymous web surfer handles and an unknown 'scientist' as valid sources of information to support an article. And now this - a letter from such a tenuous contact paraded as salient to the present day, simply because it supports the Nation's propaganda message.

[OzMick]

There is nothing special about this manipulative letter - is just an elaborate attempt to make Weng feel guilty.

Of course! It should have begun "I am older than you! You listen to me.................................."

[Koh_Falang]

Veerasak was a student activist under Weng and no vice versa. They have once be sharing the same cause.

Once??? You mean back in 1969. Wasn't that the year that they first put a man on the moon?

How can the NATION expect us to take it seriously? Quoting some old relic school teacher from 1969 as in any way relevant to Weng in the present day?

Holding up as valid some obscure nobody who used to hang out with Weng in 1969 is just plain silly. Implying that he is a relevant social commentator, simply because he once knew Weng and now has a little yellow flag, is just another feeble ploy by the NATION to make us believe that it is still a newspaper.

Hmm bitter much?

Why is it relevant as to when he taught at school?

Pardon the emphasis, but I'm just amazed at how an outfit that still calls itself a sensible newspaper can support such a deplorably poor quality of journalism, and I'm saddened at how the Nation has declined so much from the great publication that it once was.

Only yesterday, it was quoting anonymous web surfer handles and an unknown 'scientist' as valid sources of information to support an article. And now this - a letter from such a tenuous contact paraded as salient to the present day, simply because it supports the Nation's propaganda message.

Perhaps you are correct... But it seems that you are making drama, for drama's sake...

The letter makes some good points which hopefully gives everyone a bit of thought without the attached negative emotion... Its an attempt to calm the situation without taking sides.

Dont poison the point of the message by finding the bad in everything...

[Motoon]

Veerasak was a student activist under Weng and no vice versa. They have once be sharing the same cause.

Once??? You mean back in 1969. Wasn't that the year that they first put a man on the moon?

How can the NATION expect us to take it seriously? Quoting some old relic school teacher from 1969 as in any way relevant to Weng in the present day?

Holding up as valid some obscure nobody who used to hang out with Weng in 1969 is just plain silly. Implying that he is a relevant social commentator, simply because he once knew Weng and now has a little yellow flag, is just another feeble ploy by the NATION to make us believe that it is still a newspaper.

You're blind to the connection of this time with today's events, in addition to your lack of knowledge. I could elaborate further in for eample explaining how they got caught and arrested together in the 70's by the covert special ops operating under a certain Chavalit. All of these points have a direct relevance to the actual events but I suspect it's useless to go on since you prefer to use the same few statements for every thread dealing with the matter. I can accept your siding with the red shirts and your convictions in that regard, let's just leave it like that.

Btw: Veerasak would be the last to wave a yellow flag. That little statement said a whole lot more about you than Veerasak!

[clockworkorange]

You're blind to the connection of this time with today's events, in addition to your lack of knowledge. I could elaborate further in for eample explaining how they got caught and arrested together in the 70's by the covert special ops operating under a certain Chavalit. All of these points have a direct relevance to the actual events but I suspect it's useless to go on since you prefer to use the same few statements for every thread dealing with the matter. I can accept your siding with the red shirts and your convictions in that regard, let's just leave it like that.

Btw: Veerasak would be the last to wave a yellow flag. That little statement said a whole lot more about you than Veerasak!

Umm, so your point is that these guys may have once shared the same politcal beliefs, which may not correspond to the beliefs they now hold some 40 years later. That's a real surprise. After all, life often does that to people - it changes us as we get older. Are you the same as you were 40 years ago? Probably not. What may have once been brothers in arms while they were idealistic youths, are now after all these years of going their separate ways very likely different in their aspirations and world view.

So how is this in any way relevant news, worthy of report in a national 'independent' newspaper, and not just another pice of the NATION propaganda, i.e. reporting one side as if there is no other side, and in doing so not letting adults make up their own mind?

Edited April 28, 2010 by clockworkorange

[Motoon]

Umm, yes, so your point is that these guys may have once shared the same politcal beliefs, which may not correspond to the beliefs they now hold some 40 years later. That's a real surprise. After all, life often does that to people - it changes us as we get older. Are you the same as you were 40 years ago? Probably not. What may have once been brothers in arms while they were idealistic youths, are now after all these years of going their separate ways very likely different in their aspirations and world view.

So how is this in any way relevant news, worthy of report in a national 'independent' newspaper?

The point is that they still share the same political beliefs. They just disagree about the methods in getting results. It is his reminder that the violent way will result in self-destruction at one point, as they have already once witnessed all these years ago (Weng was pardoned by HMK for his acts during that struggle).

Another point. I do share your opinion with regard to the newspaper. I don't read it, well, except obviously the quoted articles on TV. They have a personal vendetta against anything relating to Taksin..., allegedly as a consequence for all his attempts to silence them. I think, it is fair to say that it is at par with the attempts of the actual government to interupt and silence the pro-red media, who in turn pour all their scorn on Abhisit and Suthep...I haven't read f.e. in the Nation that Taksin is described as a dog whose whole family should be wiped off the earth...

[Koh_Falang]

You're blind to the connection of this time with today's events, in addition to your lack of knowledge. I could elaborate further in for eample explaining how they got caught and arrested together in the 70's by the covert special ops operating under a certain Chavalit. All of these points have a direct relevance to the actual events but I suspect it's useless to go on since you prefer to use the same few statements for every thread dealing with the matter. I can accept your siding with the red shirts and your convictions in that regard, let's just leave it like that.

Btw: Veerasak would be the last to wave a yellow flag. That little statement said a whole lot more about you than Veerasak!

Umm, so your point is that these guys may have once shared the same politcal beliefs, which may not correspond to the beliefs they now hold some 40 years later. That's a real surprise. After all, life often does that to people - it changes us as we get older. Are you the same as you were 40 years ago? Probably not. What may have once been brothers in arms while they were idealistic youths, are now after all these years of going their separate ways very likely different in their aspirations and world view.

So how is this in any way relevant news, worthy of report in a national 'independent' newspaper, and not just another pice of the NATION propaganda, i.e. reporting one side as if there is no other side, and in doing so not letting adults make up their own mind?

Sorry i have to pick on you clockwork but your still picking on something that is almost totally irrelavant to the content of the post.

How is this report in any way propaganda... How could this report be seen or preceived as coming from one side of the fence? Can you point to any particular line? Can you show me the other side of this story that is not being reported?

To me, this story promotes thoughtful deliberation rather then senseless violence... balls in your court...

[Motoon]

Sorry i have to pick on you clockwork but your still picking on something that is almost totally irrelavant to the content of the post.

How is this report in any way propaganda... How could this report be seen or preceived as coming from one side of the fence? Can you point to any particular line? Can you show me the other side of this story that is not being reported?

To me, this story promotes thoughtful deliberation rather then senseless violence... balls in your court...

That last sentence sums it up...

[rixalex]

You're blind to the connection of this time with today's events, in addition to your lack of knowledge. I could elaborate further in for eample explaining how they got caught and arrested together in the 70's by the covert special ops operating under a certain Chavalit. All of these points have a direct relevance to the actual events but I suspect it's useless to go on since you prefer to use the same few statements for every thread dealing with the matter. I can accept your siding with the red shirts and your convictions in that regard, let's just leave it like that.

Btw: Veerasak would be the last to wave a yellow flag. That little statement said a whole lot more about you than Veerasak!

Umm, so your point is that these guys may have once shared the same politcal beliefs, which may not correspond to the beliefs they now hold some 40 years later.

That wasn't his point at all - quite the reverse actually - did you even read it?

[Netfan]

Now why on earth would the NATION dredge up one of Weng's old teachers from years back and use him to call on the red shirts to back down, and not the government. Strange how the NATION would take a position like that, when it is normally so neutral.

Shows your ignorance. Veerasak was a student activist under Weng and no vice versa. They have once be sharing the same cause.

There is nothing special about this manipulative letter - is just an elaborate attempt to make Weng feel guilty.

Study the background. Veerasak has been an activist for many of the basic issues that are now requested by the (real) red shirts. He does not question the legitimate right of the (poorer) population to fight for their basic rights. He just points to the fact on how far off track the cause has been steering lately with the use of questionable, violent methods and the involvement of people who couldn't give a shit about the cause. It is a matter of personal integrity that you wouldn't understand and by the way, everything can always be dismissed as manipulated without further elaboration.

Motoon, these 2 guys are just worried that a reasonable solution might be found and their hoped for bloody revolution will instead be resolved through understanding and responsible leadership. They'd rather back the guys calling for the BTS to be attacked and to turn Thailand into Rawanda.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Netfan

[chuang]

Now with more people in Thailand who can think as straight as this person

Problem solved

Showed the wife his letter and she said in Thai, he should be in Paliement not the idiots we now have

Please spare the BS, as anyone with half a brain can see that this "letter" was just fabricated to try once again to sway opinions in favour of the terrorists.

It's very clear for most people to see that this movement is so singlemindedly meant to achieve one thing and that's to assist Taksin at the expense of thailand. Obviously there is a ton of money being exchanged to achieve this, but I'll betcha the people living in the streets won't see any of it at the end of the day.

Do you think you can write a piece like that or a better piece of so-called BS...

[clockworkorange]

The point is that they still share the same political beliefs. They just disagree about the methods in getting results. It is his reminder that the violent way will result in self-destruction at one point, as they have already once witnessed all these years ago (Weng was pardoned by HMK for his acts during that struggle).

Another point. I do share your opinion with regard to the newspaper. I don't read it, well, except obviously the quoted articles on TV. They have a personal vendetta against anything relating to Taksin..., allegedly as a consequence for all his attempts to silence them. I think, it is fair to say that it is at par with the attempts of the actual government to interupt and silence the pro-red media, who in turn pour all their scorn on Abhisit and Suthep...I haven't read f.e. in the Nation that Taksin is described as a dog whose whole family should be wiped off the earth...

The old friend of Weng's is against violence, as are most of us. It's an unfortunate flaw in human nature that violence is used as the final way to settle an argument when egos get in the way of negotiation and compromise. I wish that there could be a bit of compromise on both sides that would lead to a peaceful solution, but there is none. Weng's teacher calling for a peaceful solution is nice and soothing, but rather unrealstic unless an agreement can be made back here in the year 2010, which is looking less likely since the government rejected the reds last offer and the military presence has increased.

As we both agree , the Nation is nothing more than trash. It would help matters a lot more if it treated us all like adults by presenting both sides of the case, instead of trumpeting the personal vendettas of its owners and stirring up more malice, all of which are the result of nothing more than business disagreements.

[Jimmu]

Who is that obscure clockwork fruitcake?

[clockworkorange]

That wasn't his point at all - quite the reverse actually - did you even read it?

Hey, look who is is! Have you decided what it is that you believe in yet Rix?

A year back I recall you lauding Abhisit's government as the clean break that we all needed from the horrors of corruption. Then, when I and others explained to you how Abhisit's cronies were corrupt, you focussed on Thaksin as the antichrist and sole cause of this problem. Abhsit, while not as clean as first thought, was however a noble cause which justified his dodgy associations in the name of national reconciliation.

Now that Abhsit is a complete laughing stock, with Thailand on the brink of civil war, with the Dems facing their own bans from politics, where do you stand, and what is it that you believe in, exactly?

Any ideas?

Edited April 28, 2010 by clockworkorange

[SomTumTiger]

Can't help but notice that when the reds are acting like reds (Violently confronting troops, seizing petrol stations, blocking roads, etc) the red supporters on TV are nowhere to be seen. Very much like the red leaders....lol.

[rixalex]

Have you decided what it is that you believe in yet Rix?

I have always known what i believe in, thanks for your concern.

A year back I recall you lauding Abhisit's government as the clean break that we all needed from the horrors of corruption.

Not only is that completely untrue but a year back you were not even a member here. Both an impressive and an imaginative recollection you possess.

Then, when I and others explained to you how Abhisit's cronies were corrupt, you focussed on Thaksin as the antichrist and sole cause of this problem.

Please stop with crediting yourself and your red chums with ever having enlightened me - for that to happen you would need to have said something enlightening. We are still awaiting that day.

[Netfan]

Dear Dr. Veerasak, I`am only farang, and I read your opinion, you wrote "Thai society is greatly damaged", this is very true, but since when,you write since reds voting for their rights, you don`t realy believe this, I think the damage starts many years ago up to today, the ordenery citizen don`t have a law, only the upper class use the law as their act as one thinks best, the law is deeply korrupted and not existing for the poor people, in this case more and more people are making their own justice. and if you talk, this is special Thai, sorry, now we are living in 20th century, and we have to learn from the past. I hope, I don`t give you a surprise, sorry I`am only farang, and I wish all Thai citizen to come back for a unique happy country, with a commen law for all.

Please don't embarrass the rest of us by really sending this letter. Not that I don't think Veerasak wouldn't appreciate being lectured on Thai history and culture by a foreigner its that I doubt if he would understand a word that you are saying.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Netfan

[SomTumTiger]

Yeah - allthai can't even write in English coherently, doubt he as anything to offer a renowned university scholar and researcher.

[rixalex]

Now that Abhsit is a complete laughing stock,

Only amongst the reds and they have been programmed to think that no matter what the man does.

with Thailand on the brink of civil war,

Civil war is not going to happen, as much as the reds may push things in that direction. There are too many peace-loving Thais to let it get that far.

with the Dems facing their own bans from politics, where do you stand,

Where i stand is exactly where i stood regarding the PPP being disbanded. If they have done wrong and the Thai judiciary says so, they must be punished and must accept their punishment.

I'm more interested to know where the reds stand on this. They have continually mocked and questioned the ruling that went against them. I want to know how consistant they will be with their beliefs about courts and kangaroos.

[zorm999]

Someone calls for peace in a calm, polite manner and people on TV rip him apart. Just wow.

It seems that polite, conciliatory, considered postings are not always welcome by many of the readers here.

Shame, really...

[Motoon]

Now why on earth would the NATION dredge up one of Weng's old teachers from years back and use him to call on the red shirts to back down, and not the government. Strange how the NATION would take a position like that, when it is normally so neutral.

Shows your ignorance. Veerasak was a student activist under Weng and no vice versa. They have once be sharing the same cause.

There is nothing special about this manipulative letter - is just an elaborate attempt to make Weng feel guilty.

Study the background. Veerasak has been an activist for many of the basic issues that are now requested by the (real) red shirts. He does not question the legitimate right of the (poorer) population to fight for their basic rights. He just points to the fact on how far off track the cause has been steering lately with the use of questionable, violent methods and the involvement of people who couldn't give a shit about the cause. It is a matter of personal integrity that you wouldn't understand and by the way, everything can always be dismissed as manipulated without further elaboration.

Motoon, these 2 guys are just worried that a reasonable solution might be found and their hoped for bloody revolution will instead be resolved through understanding and responsible leadership. They'd rather back the guys calling for the BTS to be attacked and to turn Thailand into Rawanda.

Don't worry it is a good exercise to test ones ability to remain balanced and to respect all, even the hapless

[hammered]

Anyone who was student activist at those times has earned the right to have his say and certainly knows more about the issues than some foreign johnny come lately characters with silly names (include me in that too) and silly little pictures (not me this time) overly obsessed with posting on TV and with some utter hatred for the Nation which is not good for their health. Heaven forbid they ever listen to ASTV (need to understand Thai for that) or read one of the red publciations (need Thai for that too) as they really would put into perspective what creative journalism actually is. If somethign annoys you enough iignore it. It isnt worth getting sick over

Peace

Edited April 28, 2010 by hammered