Arresting Of Monks In Demonstrations

[phetaroi]

Interesting development that dovetails into comments in the past about whether or not monks were free to be active politically, regardless of (or in support of) their vows:

"TAN Network: The Sangha Supreme Council allows authorities to arrest monks joining in political rallies on site."

If the moderators allow this topic to remain (and I know it's their call and I will respect their decision without complaint), please remember that any discussion should be focused on the Buddhist aspect of the topic.

[Tanaka]

It sort of forfeits their status in society and their role as giving advice to people. When, as happens now, they take sides publicly for terrorist and unlawful actions, they have removed their very base to have a position in society. This is really not good and a very improper step by these monks.

[Xangsamhua]

Probably a good idea to arrest them and then establish if they are genuine monks. If they are, they can be disciplined according to the proper procedures, together with their abbots if the latter have allowed them to go. If they're not they can be charged with posing as a monk.

[londonthai]

they take sides publicly for terrorist and unlawful actions

well, monks from vietnam, burma, tibet and some other coutries were classified similarly, yet are remembered as the champions of human rights.

let them do, what they feel is right - ruling of this court singles out and intimidates monks from taking part in political demos. As every citizen they have the right to political views and the right to assemble.

suspecting them outright for being imposters is an abuse of law by the authorities.

suggesting, that those monks should be disciplined by the religious authorities, is far fetched

[gregb]

they take sides publicly for terrorist and unlawful actions

well, monks from vietnam, burma, tibet and some other coutries were classified similarly, yet are remembered as the champions of human rights.

let them do, what they feel is right - ruling of this court singles out and intimidates monks from taking part in political demos. As every citizen they have the right to political views and the right to assemble.

suspecting them outright for being imposters is an abuse of law by the authorities.

suggesting, that those monks should be disciplined by the religious authorities, is far fetched

I could only agree with this if the red shirt protests were known to be peaceful. They are definitely not that, and the monks are well aware of this. There is a picture floating around on the internet of a monk in full saffron robes holding a sharpened bamboo stick from the clash this week on Vipawadee Rangsit road.

This kind of behaviour reflects very poorly on all monks throughout Thailand, even those that exercise some restraint and do not take part in political activities. What you are suggesting is that even monks are allowed to have opinions, and when it is possible to express that opinion in a peaceful way there should be no reason to disallow it. That is OK by itself, however, associating with and aiding known terrorists in these red shirt riots is most definitely a serious ethical violation. This is not a peaceful assembly.

I don't know of any monks in any countries that took up arms against the government and were subsequently remembered as champions of human rights. Can you provide some specific examples?

I think they should be prevented from attending for the sake of the entire order. It is something the authorities should address, as their presence is associating all monks with violence, even the responsible ones who stay home. That is something that requires action by those with authority.

[sabaijai]

Irrelevant posts deleted. Remember this is the Buddhism subforum

[londonthai]

monk next to a protester with a sharpened bamboo stick or one even holding one - does not associate himself with terrorists and is not a terrorist. Naming protesters (monks and even some 3 former prime ministers - including one deposed by the military) terrorists is just a political game, than a reality.

if anybody should prevent monks from attending demos, are not courts or civilian authorities, but the religious ones. For the obvious reason (majority of monks do support oppressed, exploited and poor on the moral grounds, most of monks do come themselves from such background) religious leaders can't bar them from political activity - it's not like those monks take part in military parades, bless weapons and fighters going on a front line.

[phetaroi]

monk next to a protester with a sharpened bamboo stick or one even holding one - does not associate himself with terrorists and is not a terrorist. Naming protesters (monks and even some 3 former prime ministers - including one deposed by the military) terrorists is just a political game, than a reality.

if anybody should prevent monks from attending demos, are not courts or civilian authorities, but the religious ones. For the obvious reason (majority of monks do support oppressed, exploited and poor on the moral grounds, most of monks do come themselves from such background) religious leaders can't bar them from political activity - it's not like those monks take part in military parades, bless weapons and fighters going on a front line.

Is your response based on the way you think it should be, or based on the laws and rules of the Supreme Sangha in Thailand?

[slapout]

I think the question was answered by the Supreme Sangha in the past couple of days, via news reporters. What we think, believe, propose, etc is a moot point. The rules taught and it seems, to be enforced appear very straight forward.

[sabaijai]

Can saffron be red in Thailand?

At the sprawling red shirt encampment in central bank, Buddhist monks clad in their distinctive saffron robes mingle with men wearing helmets walking around with sharpened bamboo sticks.

Just about every night, rumours sweep the the sprawling encampment of tents, sounds trucks and makeshift stalls that a long anticipated crackdown is imminent. The men stare at the three-metre barricades made of tyres, bamboo poles and rubble that surround much of the encampment, about the size of a large city park, waiting to pelt soldiers armed with assault rifles with pellets from their sling shots and thrusts of their bamboo spears.

The monks are there for moral support, and to receive “merit” from the red shirts, who have occupied some of the most expensive real estate in Thailand for the past seven weeks in their campaign for early elections. “Making merit” involves giving an offering — food, some spare change to a monk — perhaps in the hope of a more accommodating afterlife, should death suddenly intervene. As it well could on the barricades when you’re fending off automatic weapons fire with a bamboo stick.

But the presence of Buddhist monks at the rallies — including some carrying sharpened sticks – is unsettling to many in Thailand, where monks are supposed to be politically neutral. They are not even supposed to vote. Amnart Buasiri, director of the Secretariat of the Sangha Supreme Council, the clergy’s governing body called on police to arrest monks for taking part in the red shirt rallies, which are illegal under emergency decrees imposed after the protests turned violent three weeks ago.

It should come as no surprise that monks are joining the red shirt movement (though it’s difficult to check their authenticity). They often come from the same social strata as the protesters — the rural poor and urban working class.

Their hero, former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, ousted in a 2006 coup and now living abroad to avoid jail on a corruption conviction, is a devout Buddhist aligned with the powerful Dhammakaya movement. During the Asian financial crisis of 1997-98, this monastic community famously collected gold jewelry to enable Thailand to pay off its debts to the IMF. Dhammakaya was also major force in the formation of the Thaksin’s populist Thai Rak Thai party, which has banned.

The Thai political divide that broadly pits this underclass against what they call an establishment elite is beginning to be reflected in religion. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva’s government relies for support on the Muslim-dominated provinces of southern Thailand along with an establishment that includes Buddhist leaders appointed by the crown.

On Friday, the security agency in charge of dealing with the political crisis (CRES) said a rocket-propelled grenade attack last month near the Defence Ministry actually targeted the Temple of the Emerald Buddha, part of the Grand Palace complex in Bangkok, which historically has functioned as a kind of personal chapel for the royal family.

The government has been stepping up accusations recently that the red shirt movement has republican leanings and some of its leaders are part of a network to overthrow the monarchy in their drive to upend the establishment. Thered shirts deny they are against the monarchy.

Thai monks have been less politically active than in other Asian nations where Buddhism is strong –in neighbouring Myanmar, for instance, monks have often been at the forefront of protests against the junta there.

That could be changing. Some of the dozen or so monks staying in the red shirt encampment say they are there to maintain an atmosphere of nonviolence and uphold Buddhist principles.

If the army moves in they say they will stand in front of the red shirts and plead for no bloodshed.

Ethiopian Review

http://www.ethiopianreview.com/news/91415

[khaowong1]

all that can be said on this topic from the people on this forum is opinion. The Thai Sangha has the last say. anything else is moot.

[camerata]

Their hero, former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, ousted in a 2006 coup and now living abroad to avoid jail on a corruption conviction, is a devout Buddhist aligned with the powerful Dhammakaya movement.

Devout Buddhist? Give me a break!

During the Asian financial crisis of 1997-98, this monastic community famously collected gold jewelry to enable Thailand to pay off its debts to the IMF.

No, they didn't. That was LP Maha Boowa. As I recall, years later Dhammakaya provided some facilities for TRT and then suddenly the embezzlement and heresy charges against them were dropped. But the rank and file Dhammakaya people are still mostly middle class, and hardly Thaksin or red supporters.

The Thai political divide that broadly pits this underclass against what they call an establishment elite is beginning to be reflected in religion. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva’s government relies for support on the Muslim-dominated provinces of southern Thailand along with an establishment that includes Buddhist leaders appointed by the crown.

That's a bit of a stretch. Muslims and aristocratic Buddhists.

[sabaijai]

Strange article indeed.

If the monks were to offer equal opportunity to make merit to the residents, workers and merchants of the Patumwan district which the Reds have taken hostage for the last month, then we might believe their claims to be neutral. Otherwise I agree with an earlier post, the monks lose their moral authority when they take sides in a heated political battle.

[sabaijai]

Here's a monk (W Vajiramedhi) with another approach to political change. The music is cheesy, and the text is in Thai but the basic message is 'the quality of democracy depends on the quality of people, and the quality of people depends on the quality of panna (wisdom). If you want to change Thailand, start by changing yourself.'

Almost a paraphrase of John Lennon's famous 'you'd better free your mind instead' line from the Beatles' 'Revolution.'