Thai Authorities To Sever Red-Shirts Supply Lines

[Who, me ?]

Abhisit is about as good a politician as Thailand could ever hope to get, but unfortunately he either can't or for some unimaginable reason does not want to rid the capital of this criminal mob.

Without the tools, there's not a PM in the world who could deal with this mob.

Yes, tools are not working.....

And not easy to change tools when you have started the job

[brahmburgers]

Pheu Thai Party Opposes Violence, Endorses Negotiation Between Government and Red Shirts

BANGKOK: -- .....Chalerm Yubamrung, the Pheu Thai Party's MPs Chairman, has refused to comment on the plan of the Centre of the Resolution of Emergency Situation or CRES to isolate the red-shirts' encampment at Ratchaprasong Intersection by cutting off electricity and water services in the area.

Chalerm said he would like to see the negotiation between the government and the red-shirts resumed. He has also called for the government to revoke the emergency decree and to grant bail for red-shirt leaders in order to bring about reconciliation.

Chalerm also said that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva should dissolve the House or resign....

Chalorm claims the recent violence stemmed from a disagreement within the government itself....

Furthermore, Chalerm has discredited Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban's report to the DSI.....

From TAN

Chalerm has about as much credence as Thaksin, in other words, zero.

[Herm]

"ritish MP's are equally as corrupt as Thai's which was shown more than clearly by the expenses cheating scandal. " - add to the collection of rubbish on this thread!

This shows how grossly some people underestimate the extent of nepotism, and corruption in Thai society - from top to bottom - to even consider that the incumbent govt is above this would also be gross stupidity.

If you would read my complete post you would see my comment about Thailand: The only difference is that here it is up in your face and goes through all levels of society. - Just in case you do not understand this, it means exactly the same

As far as the British MP's are concerned, you do not really believe that the expenses scandal was it ? It is just the top of an huge iceberg - I used to deal in the defense business and negotiated with ministries ... you have no idea

[Robby nz]

What about Abhisit just ignoring the Red Shirts, maybe then they'll go away? With the exception of some shopping malls and traffic, they really aren't doing anything. Don't provoke them, don't antagonize them, just ignore them. Have troops/police on ready if they try to break out and stir up trouble outside their "zone", but otherwise just ignore them. Continue to work on constitution reform, continue to work on programs for the poor, and continue to let Thaksin pump money into the country. Over 2 months their numbers have declined to less than 10% of their original numbers. Let's see how many are left after 2 more months.

That's what Abhisit has essentially been doing. Indeed, that's been his strategy all along: Try to ignore the Red hot heads and hope they run out of steam and go home. Well, it hasn't worked. If this were a chess game, the Reds would have been making most of the best moves. One of the biggest moves was the withering combat fire of April 10th which came from the Red camp. The gov't didn't expect it, and it has chastened them to inaction ever since then.

If this were looked at as a military campaign (which it resembles), then the gov't side should not be so chagrined. They should regroup, assess their strengths, and act decisively. Granted, that's tough to do when your top general is as tough as a soap bubble.

If I were deputized with a group of ten farang teenagers, I could have cut the power, cut the mobile phone signals, and probably bolloxed their water supply weeks ago - with or without utility's ok.

If I were deputized with 200 good soldiers, I could have severely restricted ingress and egress and probably arrested at least half the Red leaders by now. Ok, so maybe I'm boasting with a lot of hot air, but at least I've got resolve which is something Abhisit and his top people don't have.

Well Bramburgers You post some good stuff but I cant agree with the bit in bold, if this is true how do you explain the 28th when the reds were beaten and sent home for the second time? and since then have been confined to barracks.

The PM has gone out of his way to try to avoid death and injury and if some thinks this makes him weak they are not thinking streight.

Patience people, this will end, hopefully with no or little more bloodshed. Although as said by a comentator on Tele a couple of days ago " The reds need blood now for an excuse to stay" and they need to try to blame that blood on the PM to give their people something new to focus on.

But he isnt buying that and will do everything possible before giong in with force, lets hope he doesnt have to.

[Herm]

"ritish MP's are equally as corrupt as Thai's which was shown more than clearly by the expenses cheating scandal. " - add to the collection of rubbish on this thread!

This shows how grossly some people underestimate the extent of nepotism, and corruption in Thai society - from top to bottom - to even consider that the incumbent govt is above this would also be gross stupidity.

If you would read my complete post you would see my comment about Thailand: The only difference is that here it is up in your face and goes through all levels of society. - Just in case you do not understand this, it means exactly the same

As far as the British MP's are concerned, you do not really believe that the expenses scandal was it ? It is just the top of an huge iceberg - I used to deal in the defense business and negotiated with ministries about export licenses and end user certificates... you have no idea

Edited May 13, 2010 by Herm

[brahmburgers]

Pheu Thai Party Opposes Violence, Endorses Negotiation Between Government and Red Shirts

BANGKOK: -- .....Chalerm Yubamrung, the Pheu Thai Party's MPs Chairman, has refused to comment on the plan of the Centre of the Resolution of Emergency Situation or CRES to isolate the red-shirts' encampment at Ratchaprasong Intersection by cutting off electricity and water services in the area.

Chalerm said he would like to see the negotiation between the government and the red-shirts resumed. He has also called for the government to revoke the emergency decree and to grant bail for red-shirt leaders in order to bring about reconciliation.

Chalerm also said that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva should dissolve the House or resign....

Chalorm claims the recent violence stemmed from a disagreement within the government itself....

Furthermore, Chalerm has discredited Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban's report to the DSI.....

From TAN

Chalerm has about as much credence as Thaksin, in other words, zero.

Perhaps he'd like to put one or more of his 3 sons in charge of things.

[Steely Dan]

Well the coup in 2006 and the disbanding of PPP also disturbed the democratic structure of the country .

As i said am not against it , it would be interesting to see what the reds would say were

the PM to propose it to them

You may have not noticed, but the reds rejected a referendum and early elections.

I think it's been mentioned around here a couple (thousand) times in the past few days.

It was never about elections, nor democracy for that matter. It is only about Thaksin's money and reinstatement as prime minister. The biggest obstacle for Thaksin is and always was the army succession. Abhisit has played the only cards left to him - demonstrating the real agenda behind the red mercenary rabble. With Anupong so close to retirement the army are unlikely to get involved in a high risk fire fight and the police are the same police who carried out 2,500 extra-judicial killings under Thaksin - they are brown shirted mafia.

So what can Abhisit do? I'm sure that if military steps were taken to resolve the situation the reds would burn down surrounding buildings so it may be best to sit tight, do nothing and wait for the military reshuffle - By that time the reds should be universally despised and a general would be in place prepared to do to the reds what Thaksin let the police do to those they wanted rid of. Meanwhile I bet most Thais would cheer and throw ticker tape off the highest buildings.

There are some practical steps which can be taken in the meantime;-

1) evacuate all residents and put them up in the many empty hotels around Bangkok.

2) A blockade should be exactly that, seal the reds in to rot in their own filth.

3) Pass legislation jailing every protester who doesn't leave.

4) Fine them more money than Thaksin has promised them.

5) Freeze all of Thaksin's assets.

6) Contact Mossad and say we have a very large bounty if you can rid us of a certain overseas troublemaker.

[Herm]

Well the coup in 2006 and the disbanding of PPP also disturbed the democratic structure of the country .

As i said am not against it , it would be interesting to see what the reds would say were

the PM to propose it to them

You may have not noticed, but the reds rejected a referendum and early elections.

I think it's been mentioned around here a couple (thousand) times in the past few days.

It was never about elections, nor democracy for that matter. It is only about Thaksin's money and reinstatement as prime minister. The biggest obstacle for Thaksin is and always was the army succession. Abhisit has played the only cards left to him - demonstrating the real agenda behind the red mercenary rabble. With Anupong so close to retirement the army are unlikely to get involved in a high risk fire fight and the police are the same police who carried out 2,500 extra-judicial killings under Thaksin - they are brown shirted mafia.

So what can Abhisit do? I'm sure that if military steps were taken to resolve the situation the reds would burn down surrounding buildings so it may be best to sit tight, do nothing and wait for the military reshuffle - By that time the reds should be universally despised and a general would be in place prepared to do to the reds what Thaksin let the police do to those they wanted rid of. Meanwhile I bet most Thais would cheer and throw ticker tape off the highest buildings.

There are some practical steps which can be taken in the meantime;-

1) evacuate all residents and put them up in the many empty hotels around Bangkok.

2) A blockade should be exactly that, seal the reds in to rot in their own filth.

3) Pass legislation jailing every protester who doesn't leave.

4) Fine them more money than Thaksin has promised them.

5) Freeze all of Thaksin's assets.

6) Contact Mossad and say we have a very large bounty if you can rid us of a certain overseas troublemaker.

One error here, this is Thailand logic does not apply

I made the mistake to think the cutting off of power and water was a brilliant tactical move to evacuate civilians from the area for the army to make their move today .......

oh well .... the Muppet show goes on ...

[otherstuff1957]

Both sides are in a situation where they can't really win, they can only do their best to avoid losing! The Govt cannot round up the protesters and arrest them - the police and army are reluctant to do so and, even if they did, the political fallout would tend to favor the Red side.

On the other hand, the Reds can't really bring the government down directly, so they have to either provoke the army or police into an attack (as they did on April 10) or just get everyone so fed up with the current impasse that the army or the coalition partners kick out the PM and the current cabinet, either with a coup or though a parliamentary realignment.

So, both sides are playing a waiting game. Despite the announcements from both sides, it's unlikely that either side will really make a move. They have more to lose by acting then they have by waiting. The Reds and the Government are each staring at each other and waiting for the other to blink.

I hate to say I told you so... but nothing has happened, exactly as I predicted. On one hand, it's frustrating to see a reasonable compromise thrown away, on the other hand, a real crackdown/eviction would inevitably cause bloodshed and could conceivably spiral out of control.

[shawndoc]

If the government could follow through on the most basic of threats, maybe the red shirts would feel motivated to actually get out of dodge.

Despite promises for weeks that they were going to set up check points to search for weapons/prevent new arrivals/etc, its still possible to walk into red shirt camp without going through any government check points. Promise of shutting off power/water, failed.

Its a joke. I don't blame Abhisit, as I know the PM has no real power over police/army. But it certainly makes it hard to take any threats seriously. I'm frankly surprised the reds gave his offer of reconciliation as much credence as they did.

[Who, me ?]

I don't know what to think of that, but there was a helicopter flying rather high around here (LangSuan) and we could hear loud "bangs" like shots. The helicopter came twice, and it happened twice the last 10 mn.

Was it fire crackers ? Was it the reds firing at the helicopter? I have no idea.... Any one knows anything ?

[shawndoc]

Can see at least 3 helicopters in sky at Silom. Looks like the Reds are trying to bring them down with fireworks.

Another firework bang. This time south towards Silom. I saw it this time. Media jumpy, scrambling to get pictures each time.

From @richardbarrow on Twitter

[AleG]

Can see at least 3 helicopters in sky at Silom. Looks like the Reds are trying to bring them down with fireworks.

Another firework bang. This time south towards Silom. I saw it this time. Media jumpy, scrambling to get pictures each time.

From @richardbarrow on Twitter

How very peaceful, trying to shoot down a helicopter....

[Who, me ?]

Can see at least 3 helicopters in sky at Silom. Looks like the Reds are trying to bring them down with fireworks.

Another firework bang. This time south towards Silom. I saw it this time. Media jumpy, scrambling to get pictures each time.

From @richardbarrow on Twitter

How very peaceful, trying to shoot down a helicopter....

They claim to be innocent unarmed civilians......and there are members here who claim it too

[brahmburgers]

Here's what I picture for tomorrow:

Government will start its forced dispersal.

Red hardliners will go apeshit, and shoot all their combat weapons.

Half Red leaders will shout 'we agreed to roadmap, why are you using force!'

Other half of Red leaders will be running for the airport - or running to hide.

Some demonstrators will run in to surrounding stores and loot. Others will just melt in to the crowd and flee.

CRES forces will wilt and retreat before any ground is gained.

Back to Square One, again.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Never served in the military, I guess. First or last light is the usual times to begin a military operation. In a combat zone, everybody stands to, ready to repel an attack at both times. Why? At dawn, non-military types still have their head down sleeping off hangovers, with minimum of awareness. Done well, you can have half the job done before the target realises what's happening. You also get the max. number of hours of preferred conditions (ie light or dark).

Right, and agreed. The key word however may be 'combat zone', above. While it will no doubt turn into a combat zone, it must be kept in mind that it's ALSO a populated civilian business and residential area. When turning that into a combat zone, the preference is likely to not endanger the general public more than necessary. If you start things during the day, with a possibility that it transforms into running battles in the general area, then relatively more people will get caught up in it.

(In addition, there would be more witnesses around, though in this day and age that hardly matters, with the big media presence and with just about anyone having a camera phone. Traditionally though i think this has been a factor on planning these things at night.)

[elcent]

has anybody else realized that there are no reports of the damages. Who is affected? Would be nice to see a detailed breakdown of the damages. It must be in multi billions now, not included the after effects.

Oh my, and Kasit, a failed FM complains? He speaks with two tongues. When you watch him carefully you can see his other tongue coming out of the backside of his neck flapping in the opposite direction.

This govt is losing face big time.

[Thai at Heart]

From my experience, everyone here is corrupt.

In over ten years, I have never had a staight deal. Not once.

Awful place. No natural sence of right and wrong.

Yes , what you say is entirely true .

I was considering about how being brought up culturally in a Christian environment has such a powerful effect on one's moral compass.

Two wrongs don't make a right

Turn the other cheek

Do unto others as you do unto you

Camels and eyes of needles and the such

If I have heard one Thai kid say "but he did it too" as a justification, I have heard it a million times. Of course, the reds are using this against the yellows, and it appears to in some way be acceptable as an excuse. Why do people continue to drive on the wrong side of the road on motor cycles here? Because everyone else does.

All of these small daily mantras that are drummed into us as kids in Europe have a major effect on our moral compass. Last time I looked, Thailand is Buddhist, so don't be surprised if the sense of fairplay is a long way away from back home. Morals are not the same here.

[breaky73]

I wonder what the next step of the government will be, now that it is clear that cutting of the water and electricity won't help a bit.

They better hire some (foreign) experts to make a good plan to end this with as little casualties as possible.

[whybother]

Can see at least 3 helicopters in sky at Silom. Looks like the Reds are trying to bring them down with fireworks.

Another firework bang. This time south towards Silom. I saw it this time. Media jumpy, scrambling to get pictures each time.

From @richardbarrow on Twitter

How very peaceful, trying to shoot down a helicopter....

Maybe the army should sacrifice a helicopter and crash it on the red stage after being hit by fireworks.

[earthpig]

Awful place. No natural sence of right and wrong.

....Sadly, I refer to all aspects of life here.

I'm an engineer here and not a day goes by without me being offered bribes and backhanders.

Contractors always try to cut corners. Theft is rife.

I get short changed and generally ripped off continually,

Even family are a bunch of liars and cheats if I am to be honest.

Everyone has different experiences in life, and is entitled to their opinion. I'm sorry for this poster's sad experiences in Thailand.

When I read some other posts which demand Red blood (often thinly disguised as disgust at Abhisit for being weak), I'm led to wonder whether the sort of bitterness being quite honestly expressed in the above post isnt the underlying pyschological reason for these blood curdling war cries?

Ripped off in a business deal, unlucky in love (or whatever), suffering from a bad economy: none of these are acceptable reasons to come to the conclusion that people should die.

What's happening in Thailand now is not some gladitorial fight to the death in the Roman Coliseum where fans went to excorcise their inner demons. Nor is it a computer game where deaths are virtual.

Thank heavens Abhisit and the generals, if not some TV posters, are wise and measured in their approach to this revolt.

[daboyz1]

Awful place. No natural sence of right and wrong.

....Sadly, I refer to all aspects of life here.

I'm an engineer here and not a day goes by without me being offered bribes and backhanders.

Contractors always try to cut corners. Theft is rife.

I get short changed and generally ripped off continually,

Even family are a bunch of liars and cheats if I am to be honest.

Everyone has different experiences in life, and is entitled to their opinion. I'm sorry for this poster's sad experiences in Thailand.

When I read some other posts which demand Red blood (often thinly disguised as disgust at Abhisit for being weak), I'm led to wonder whether the sort of bitterness being quite honestly expressed in the above post isnt the underlying pyschological reason for these blood curdling war cries?

Ripped off in a business deal, unlucky in love (or whatever), suffering from a bad economy: none of these are acceptable reasons to come to the conclusion that people should die.

What's happening in Thailand now is not some gladitorial fight to the death in the Roman Coliseum where fans went to excorcise their inner demons. Nor is it a computer game where deaths are virtual.

Thank heavens Abhisit and the generals, if not some TV posters, are wise and measured in their approach to this revolt.

I agree with most of that... I guess. What would you have the govt. do? Go sing songs around a campfire and kiss and make up. I think you're being a little naieve here. The protester leaders WANT violence. That way the poor red farmer can be a martyr to the cause. Sound familiar? Govt. met their demand about the election. After that they change the rules. The protest leaders do not want a peaceful solution, and I honestly do feel bad for the people that follow them. But order must be restored.

[rixalex]

Of course, the reds are using this against the yellows, and it appears to in some way be acceptable as an excuse.

Acceptable by whom?

The reds were supposed to be fighting against amongst other things, minority groups forcing their will on a nation (ie yellow's airport protest), and yet are using exactly the same tactics. You can't fight against something that yourself are guilty of and expect people to believe in what you are saying.

[elcent]

Awful place. No natural sence of right and wrong.

....Sadly, I refer to all aspects of life here.

I'm an engineer here and not a day goes by without me being offered bribes and backhanders.

Contractors always try to cut corners. Theft is rife.

I get short changed and generally ripped off continually,

Even family are a bunch of liars and cheats if I am to be honest.

Everyone has different experiences in life, and is entitled to their opinion. I'm sorry for this poster's sad experiences in Thailand.

When I read some other posts which demand Red blood (often thinly disguised as disgust at Abhisit for being weak), I'm led to wonder whether the sort of bitterness being quite honestly expressed in the above post isnt the underlying pyschological reason for these blood curdling war cries?

Ripped off in a business deal, unlucky in love (or whatever), suffering from a bad economy: none of these are acceptable reasons to come to the conclusion that people should die.

What's happening in Thailand now is not some gladitorial fight to the death in the Roman Coliseum where fans went to excorcise their inner demons. Nor is it a computer game where deaths are virtual.

Thank heavens Abhisit and the generals, if not some TV posters, are wise and measured in their approach to this revolt.

there are more Thais killing Thais than French killing French, Germans killing Germans and so forth ...

What are you talking about?

There will be a silent dead coming for those who are badly affected by the mob. Are you protecting terrorists, criminals and lawlessness in general?

[daboyz1]

Of course, the reds are using this against the yellows, and it appears to in some way be acceptable as an excuse.

Acceptable by whom?

The reds were supposed to be fighting against amongst other things, minority groups forcing their will on a nation (ie yellow's airport protest), and yet are using exactly the same tactics. You can't fight against something that yourself are guilty of and expect people to believe in what you are saying.

So now the yellows take over the train stations? Where does it all end?

That's like me saying me neighbor got away with murder, it must be ok then?

[Crushdepth]

The government can't afford to be making empty threats like this, just makes them look stupid.

Starting to look like this is going to get sorted out the same way the yellow protest did - dissolution of the main parties in power by the Constitution Court. That will either give the peanut party the balance of power and/or force an election.

Either way, the reds will have got what they want - for the moment.

[jcbangkok]

Of course, the reds are using this against the yellows, and it appears to in some way be acceptable as an excuse.

Acceptable by whom?

The reds were supposed to be fighting against amongst other things, minority groups forcing their will on a nation (ie yellow's airport protest), and yet are using exactly the same tactics. You can't fight against something that yourself are guilty of and expect people to believe in what you are saying.

Beyond the ingrained violent impulses of animals, the reds mob leaders have not showed one original thought. All they can do is try to copy other ignorant practices and try to relate unrelated happenings and people to their cause which has never really been defined since they keep changing what they say.

[earthpig]

I agree with most of that... I guess. What would you have the govt. do? Go sing songs around a campfire and kiss and make up. I think you're being a little naieve here. ... But order must be restored.

The government should declare a general amnesty equally applicable to everyone from Abhisit all the way down to the bamboo spear totting Red. Only Montenegrin citizens should be excluded.

Is this a perfect solution? No. Is there a perfect solution? No.

Its the best available, because its the only solution that holds out the opportunity, not the guarantee, of elections that are seen as legitimate by all major political grouping in Thailand. This revolt will never end without a government that is perceived as legitimate, and only free and fair elections can deliver that.

And yes, order must be restored. Buy only by a government that is perceived to be legitimate by Reds and well as others.

If the Reds, or that matter the Yellows, continue with the kind of behaviour both have shown AFTER a free and fair election produces a government untainted by both Thaksin's sins and coup, then that government, not this one, would have the widely perceived legitimacy required to use force successfully.

Thailand isnt there yet. And it needs to get there fast. FAST, before society unravels.

And only a general amnesty will allow that to happen.

[jcbangkok]

The government can't afford to be making empty threats like this, just makes them look stupid.

Starting to look like this is going to get sorted out the same way the yellow protest did - dissolution of the main parties in power by the Constitution Court. That will either give the peanut party the balance of power and/or force an election.

Either way, the reds will have got what they want - for the moment.

If this were to happen then the current mob in BKK will seem like Disney Land to what will clearly become wide scale violence and civil unrest.

[bkkjames]

And only a general amnesty will allow that to happen

you forgot to add, until the next time. A general amnesty is a green light to rinse and repeat.