More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[ozzieman05]

Thanks for ThaiVisa for posting a link to these photos, taken today.

One of the terrorists praying:

Fake monks:

More terrorists, all of them heavily armed:

A young terrorist being taught something, probably how to make bombs:

Chickens that were slaughtered to support the terrorists hunger:

More old terrorists, plotting the next attack:

Excellent post!

Your post is done with tunnel vision

No one says there are no a lot of genuine Thai people in the protest

Infact you show there are

But I have not seen photos of any of these people outside the protest are thrown stone, burning tyres and making petrol bombs

These are the genuine Thai's

But in the same barrel are the hard core

they want war you can see it in their faces

they are heros on the streets in Bangkok they feel

while only thugs on the street when back in Issan

In the end when the good can not control the bad

we have chaos

Solution

all the photos you have shown these people please stay inside the designated protest area

It is the mob attacking the army that are getting shot at

Can you see what I am saying

Or you do not want to see the real truth

[patjem]

Google wall street journal Bangkok and you get an article which is insightful.

Ahbist has made this situation much worst than it had to be. They could have made a deal - more money, elections, whatever. Ahbist stopped negotiations, not the reds.

Instead, army with live ammo chasing motorcycle taxi drivers around and killing them. Unbelieveably stupid - will turn Bangkok into Beiruit.

Ahbist should resign now. Take that idiot Korn with you. BTW - I don't think they will be able to vacaton in Europe or the US anymore. Killing rice farmers does not go down well there.

Hope all you hard-liners enjoy your new Thailand.

Abhsit gave them elections already. The Reds refused!!!!

The Red leadership disagreed. They was a split. Those who supported the reelection left the movement.

Thaksin didn't agree with the reelection! So he ordered his proxies to turn it down.

I seem to recollect the 3 stooges walking away from the negotiations after first 2 meetings..... was not Abhisit that walked away.

I seem to recollect that 2 weeks ago, there was a roadmap offered and the reds pretended to accept, tried to re-write the terms to their own suiting but failed to put anything together. Abhisit waited a week without an official acceptance, rally didn't end, when it could all have all been over. That was not Abhisit walking away.

In the meantime, there were numerous M79 attacks on the public. That was not Abhisit wlking away, he showed restraint and patience.

Let's offer another perspective on this opinion: "Abhisit would not be welcome in Europe":......... The rest of the world ahs seen these guys in on the red stage, speaking with anger, unwilling to negotiate with any ciompromise to their hardline position....... the rest of the world would never accept them as leaders if they were to be put in place as Thailand's MP's. That's a fact.

[ozzieman05]

A young terrorist being taught something, probably how to make bombs:

2 very irresponsible parents who need to have their child taken from them by protective services and sent to live in a foster home. The parents need to be incarcerated for child endangerment.

These kind of people truly make me nauseous. If you don't even love your children with all your heart, how can you possibly love your fellow man?

There is nothing heart warming about this picture. It is infuriating and disgusting.

Not only in a war zone

but open to the filth, desease, living conditions far worse than they complain they have to live under back in Issan

My Thai wife can not believe any Thai person can stoop so low

She just says they must be Cambodians, Thais not do this

[ozzieman05]

For the 100th time. Abhisit offered elections a year early. These morons are only concerned with burning Bangkok to the ground and getting their criminal hero back in power. It's really that simple. I don't understand why some people are calling this some kind people power thing. This is about one guy and his inability to accept defeat.

If Thaksin comes back and is PM again, that's when I'll truly pray for the people of Thailand.

Well said, but you are facing 3 problem

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience ... well, that comes from poor judgment.

Red shirts will tell you "I haven't committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the law."

and on TV Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level - then beat you with experience.

But at least with people like yourself, there is a glimmer of hope for Thailand

[Tejas]

For the 100th time. Abhisit offered elections a year early. These morons are only concerned with burning Bangkok to the ground and getting their criminal hero back in power. It's really that simple. I don't understand why some people are calling this some kind people power thing. This is about one guy and his inability to accept defeat.

If Thaksin comes back and is PM again, that's when I'll truly pray for the people of Thailand.

Right...........that is what it is about.

It is amazing how one person can use money to alter the flow of information in such a way as to blind people to reality and get them to engage in a false revolution.

The Reds are actually supporting the person who has caused them the most harm over the past ten years! Amazing Thailand.

On another matter: Why can't the military use armored vehicles/tanks/bulldozers and small, mobile "special forces teams" (that understand urban warfare) to clean this mess up rapidly?

The longer they mess around, the worse this situation will become.

It is beyond belief that trucks are allowed into the danger zone filled with tires in the back..........what they hel_l are they doing?

[ozzieman05]

Google wall street journal Bangkok and you get an article which is insightful.

Ahbist has made this situation much worst than it had to be. They could have made a deal - more money, elections, whatever. Ahbist stopped negotiations, not the reds.

Instead, army with live ammo chasing motorcycle taxi drivers around and killing them. Unbelieveably stupid - will turn Bangkok into Beiruit.

Ahbist should resign now. Take that idiot Korn with you. BTW - I don't think they will be able to vacaton in Europe or the US anymore. Killing rice farmers does not go down well there.

Hope all you hard-liners enjoy your new Thailand.

Abhsit gave them elections already. The Reds refused!!!!

The Red leadership disagreed. They was a split. Those who supported the reelection left the movement.

Thaksin didn't agree with the reelection! So he ordered his proxies to turn it down.

You seem to forget history

in the late 60's Vietnam was a war zone with the USA

Now thousand of Americans visit vietnam every day as tourists

No one knows the future of Thailand

all we can do is try what is right

and allowing mobs and thugs to rule the country from the streets is not right

[ozzieman05]

For the 100th time. Abhisit offered elections a year early. These morons are only concerned with burning Bangkok to the ground and getting their criminal hero back in power. It's really that simple. I don't understand why some people are calling this some kind people power thing. This is about one guy and his inability to accept defeat.

If Thaksin comes back and is PM again, that's when I'll truly pray for the people of Thailand.

So why did he refuse to give a date to dissolve parliament? A date to dissolve parliament is needed in order to register the official election date with the Election Commission. Otherwise a promise of an election date is worthless. He kept saying "you can calculate it yourself" and refused to give an answer. Why?

As this question has been answered over and over again it seems even when we explain to you, you just do not want to hear the answer

You have been made part of the red shirt propoganda

Resistance is futile. You have been assimilated, and all your code will serve the collective

[overdog]

For the 100th time. Abhisit offered elections a year early. These morons are only concerned with burning Bangkok to the ground and getting their criminal hero back in power. It's really that simple. I don't understand why some people are calling this some kind people power thing. This is about one guy and his inability to accept defeat.

If Thaksin comes back and is PM again, that's when I'll truly pray for the people of Thailand.

Right...........that is what it is about.

It is amazing how one person can use money to alter the flow of information in such a way as to blind people to reality and get them to engage in a false revolution.

The Reds are actually supporting the person who has caused them the most harm over the past ten years! Amazing Thailand.

On another matter: Why can't the military use armored vehicles/tanks/bulldozers and small, mobile "special forces teams" (that understand urban warfare) to clean this mess up rapidly?

The longer they mess around, the worse this situation will become.

It is beyond belief that trucks are allowed into the danger zone filled with tires in the back..........what they hel_l are they doing?

Too true! But, at best, your questions are sadly rhetorical at this point. There is much head shaking and futile mutterings by us watching from the sidelines.

[ozzieman05]

Google wall street journal Bangkok and you get an article which is insightful.

Ahbist has made this situation much worst than it had to be. They could have made a deal - more money, elections, whatever. Ahbist stopped negotiations, not the reds.

Instead, army with live ammo chasing motorcycle taxi drivers around and killing them. Unbelieveably stupid - will turn Bangkok into Beiruit.

Ahbist should resign now. Take that idiot Korn with you. BTW - I don't think they will be able to vacaton in Europe or the US anymore. Killing rice farmers does not go down well there.

Hope all you hard-liners enjoy your new Thailand.

Abhsit gave them elections already. The Reds refused!!!!

The Red leadership disagreed. They was a split. Those who supported the reelection left the movement.

Thaksin didn't agree with the reelection! So he ordered his proxies to turn it down.

I seem to recollect the 3 stooges walking away from the negotiations after first 2 meetings..... was not Abhisit that walked away.

I seem to recollect that 2 weeks ago, there was a roadmap offered and the reds pretended to accept, tried to re-write the terms to their own suiting but failed to put anything together. Abhisit waited a week without an official acceptance, rally didn't end, when it could all have all been over. That was not Abhisit walking away.

In the meantime, there were numerous M79 attacks on the public. That was not Abhisit wlking away, he showed restraint and patience.

Let's offer another perspective on this opinion: "Abhisit would not be welcome in Europe":......... The rest of the world ahs seen these guys in on the red stage, speaking with anger, unwilling to negotiate with any ciompromise to their hardline position....... the rest of the world would never accept them as leaders if they were to be put in place as Thailand's MP's. That's a fact.

There is only 1 leader

Thaskin

and he wants Chaos

he wants thousands of innocents people to die

he want war in the streets

Then and only then he can return as a hero

and save all the people

then rape the country financially

Its called Revenge

[LuckyLew]

The outcome battle of Bon Kai will determine the winner, if any, of this tragic war.

Both sides understand this. it is why Bon Kai has been the venue of the toughest and most persistent fighting to date, again claiming many lives in Bangkok's most vicious fighting Saturday and Sunday.

Why is it so important? Because from Bon Kai Red supplies are reaching Ratchaprasong thru Soi RumRudee and the Sarasin intersection on the north edge of Lumpini Park. This is because unlike other areas adjoing the Red encampment, Bon Kai is populated by Bangkok Reds.

On Saturday nite i interviewed Red guards at the Rumrudee/Wittayu (Wireless) intersection near the US Embassy. It was evident that these were crack troops, all graduates or current members of Thai Army and many clearly with commando experience.

Why put such valuable assets at this particular intersection and not, say, guarding the Red High Command? Today i returned to find out, and, among other things, found myself between Thai army and Red lines on Rama 4. See the YouTube video series "Bangkok Reds: The Battle of Bon Kai 16 May 2010" parts 1 thru 6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QlXGCvhKTg...feature=channel

The first of three key findings is that the Battle of Bon Kai is being fought by local residents of Bon Kai. I didnt interview a single fighter who had come to Bangkok just for the recent demonstrations. All the Reds fighters were locals from Bon Kai and Klong Toei, even if many originally hail from Issan.

What we are witnessing in Bon Kai is an uprising, not like at Ratchaprasong an Issan invasion. It is true that most of the fighters i spoke with in fact spoke the Issan dialect; but the key point is that they are local residents. (Thai sources tell me something similar is happening in Ding Daeng, but I have no first hand knowldege.)

The second key finding is that supplies are streaming out of Bon Kai thru Soi Ruamrudee to Sarasin and Ratchaprasong. If the Army cannot control Bon Kai, it cannot seal off supplies to Red Center. And from today's action, it doesnt appear that the Army has the strength to take and hold an insurgent stronghold such as Bon Kai.

Quite to the contrary, as the Reds are establishing a new base in Klong Toei, it is the Army that is being sandwiched between Reds in Lumpini, Sathorn Road, and Rama 4. If the Reds break out of Sarasin and move south down Wireless, the Army will be surrounded. The Army may soon need to either reinforce its position, or evacuate it.

Finally, i could find no evidence of the Red claim repeated several times in Ratchaprasong that the battle of Bon Kai was between Thai Army and Police. Neither the residents of Bon Kai nor the officials i interviewed at the local fire station supported this version of events. Thus i conclude that despite the violence we are not witnessing an armed insurrection by elements of the the Thai state. This is a revolt by a powerful and committed group to be sure, but at least we are not facing the chaos of uniformed state instruments combating each other.

Still Bon Kai is the key strategic position. If the Army is in fact able to subdue the Reds there, Red Center can be cut off.

But if the Army cant, it faces defeat in the center of its own capital city, with consequences that are unimaginable.

IMO this is probably true what you ave written

What baffles me is that the poor people of these two areas

are in fact burning down the area where the live

I wonder who these poos residents of these two areas will

blame once the troubles stop and they realize their own

areas are dust/ashes and burnt out shells?

[humfurry]

TNN: Military debunking some of the video and photographs that have been distorted or faked in the media. English sub titles.

[kaengk]

If we could just turn back the clock to pre-coup times. The coup has brought nothing but chaos.

[tominbkk]

There is only 1 leader

Thaskin

and he wants Chaos

he wants thousands of innocents people to die

he want war in the streets

Then and only then he can return as a hero

and save all the people

then rape the country financially

Its called Revenge

Very succinct and oh so true!

[brahmburgers]

The resolve of the rowdies to keep fighting is an interesting phenomena. What keeps them fighting? Some possible answers:

>>>> the adrenaline rush

>>>> they're jazzed to give vent to being rowdy with their buddies (young guys, in particular, understand this)

>>>> they're getting paid, or at least promises of payment. Most likely, payment is defered until later (this is Thailand).

>>>> security forces aren't instructed to take ground, so the rowdies know troops will pretty much stay at their positions. They're probably thinking, 'Cool, an adversary who can't advance.' It's a bit like playing football against a team that can only stay in their half of the pitch.

>>>> They've got some weapons and ammo (grenades and such), so why not use them. The alternatives are: hide/bury them, or possible get caught with them when it's over ...and then it's added time in the clinker.

. . . . . . . . and the most succinct reason the rowdies are persisting is:

>>>>> They've been successfully brainwashed by the people shouting from the stage for weeks, and a big part of that message is: "If we get our way, and Thaksin comes back (though it's currently not kosher to bandy T's name around), then we'll all get a lot more money!" Ok, they don't say those exact words, but that's the gist of it.

[timekeeper]

For the 100th time. Abhisit offered elections a year early. These morons are only concerned with burning Bangkok to the ground and getting their criminal hero back in power. It's really that simple. I don't understand why some people are calling this some kind people power thing. This is about one guy and his inability to accept defeat.

If Thaksin comes back and is PM again, that's when I'll truly pray for the people of Thailand.

So why did he refuse to give a date to dissolve parliament? A date to dissolve parliament is needed in order to register the official election date with the Election Commission. Otherwise a promise of an election date is worthless. He kept saying "you can calculate it yourself" and refused to give an answer. Why?

lil kitty

its well known that Thaksin has said to the reds like you, that you will all get paid and get your bonuses when Abhisit gives a date for House resolution and not before.

Abhisit knows that too, thats why he has not said a date and thats why the reds can't go home without it

no date, no pay!

something you should bear in mind..........

Edited May 17, 2010 by timekeeper

[ozzieman05]

If we could just turn back the clock to pre-coup times. The coup has brought nothing but chaos.

Incorrect and has been proved many many times

you do not listen

If you want to get to the beginning you need to go back to when Thaskin took power

and stop the curruption taking place that caused the coup

Stop blaming the solution for trying to fix the origional cause

But as we can see you are part of the red shirt collective

Resistance is futile. You have been assimilated, and all your code will serve the collective

[timekeeper]

"We want the UN because we don't trust we will receive justice from organizations in Thailand," protest leader Nattawut Saikuar /AFP

don't worry you won't get the justice you deserve

you will never face charges of treason or the firing squad ...........

[stevehaigh]

If we could just turn back the clock to pre-coup times. The coup has brought nothing but chaos.

i've said that many times too. love or hate taksin, i think everyone agrees Thailand was a lot better before the coup. the coup was totally unnecessary, a major overreaction to a corrupt politician, and has created a class war.

the most disturbing thing now is that Abhisit seems unwilling to compromise at all. according to CNN this morning :

**************

Minutes later, the anti-government United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, or UDD, also known as the Red Shirts, said it was willing to negotiate an end to the unrest if troops move out of the area where protesters have amassed by the thousands for weeks.

"We ask the government to ... withdraw troops out of surrounding area," said Natthawut Saikua of the UDD. "We are ready to enter talks immediately by having the United Nations as mediator for this negotiation."

However, the government seemed disinclined to have the United Nations mediate.

Panitan said in the news conference the Thai government has a policy of not allowing organizations to intervene in its internal affairs. The government has its own sovereignty, Panitan said, and can resolve its own problems.

**************

i think without outside intervention, Thailand is screwed at this point

[timekeeper]

'''Red leader Nutthawut Saikua urged the government to call a cease-fire.

He said the red shirts were willing to negotiate but only with the United Nations as a mediator.

The government should stop its allegation of that they were 'terrorists' because the protesters were unarmed, he said.''

NATION

17 05 2010

From UN definition of terrorism

"In November 2004, a United Nations Secretary General report described terrorism as any act "intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act". "

By this definition the Issan Army occupying central Bangkok are terrorists.

anyone else find it ironic that the reds want farangs to sort this out and that the very people that they are crying out to , are the same people that condemn them by definition?

i thought this guy Nittawit was a lawyer?

i am happy he is not mine..........

ps if they came, would the UN soldiers need work permits?

[DarwinK]

If we could just turn back the clock to pre-coup times. The coup has brought nothing but chaos.

Incorrect and has been proved many many times

you do not listen

If you want to get to the beginning you need to go back to when Thaskin took power

Agree with Ozzieman. Rule of law began to make some traction in Thailand in the aftermath of the 1997 crisis, but was totally side-swiped once Thaksin became PM. In case you weren't around back then, here's an article from The Economist magazine on how it started:

Thailand--Reform in reverse

Thailand's prime minister has escaped censure—for unexplained reasons

Aug 9th 2001 | From The Economist print edition

SINCE Asia was first engulfed in financial turmoil in 1997, no country in the region has struggled as hard as Thailand to clean up its murky politics. Once almost a byword for corruption, Thailand emerged as a bit of a trailblazer. Its new constitution set up powerful independent bodies that would hold politicians to greater account, monitoring their attempts to buy votes and, once in power, keeping a close eye on their assets and kicking them out of office if they were found wanting. Optimists liked to claim that good would come of the economic catastrophe, in the shape of cleaner government and an end to the debilitating sickness of cronyism.

On August 3rd, all that went into reverse. On grounds it chose not to reveal, Thailand's Constitutional Court overturned by eight to seven a ruling last year by the new National Counter-Corruption Commission, which had found that the country's richest businessman, Thaksin Shinawatra, had concealed assets worth tens of millions of dollars while serving as deputy prime minister. The commission refused to believe his explanation—that he had not known that his wife, in whose name much of the family fortune was registered, had put large shareholdings in the names of his driver, his maid and a security guard. A few weeks later Mr Thaksin's new Thai Rak Thai party, personally financed by its leader, swept to power in a general election, even though he faced a five-year ban from politics. The Thaksin affair instantly became a test case for the independence of Thailand's new institutions.

In all the eight other appeals it has heard concerning the commission's verdicts, including one decided on the same day as Mr Thaksin's, the court has upheld the counter-corruption body's ruling. Naturally, the court has every right to overturn a decision in any particular case. But it should, at least, give clear reasons if it is to avoid undermining the commission's authority. Reports say the explanation for its unusual failure to hand down a detailed opinion was the absence of consensus among the eight judges about why they decided to exonerate him. Some of them, apparently, only did so on a strange interpretation of a rule that contradicted their decision in at least one earlier case.

Elected, therefore above the law?

What is most worrying about Mr Thaksin is the contempt he has repeatedly shown for the workings of both the commission and the court. Indeed, at first he refused to testify before the commission at all, though he later relented. And even after he had won his case last week, he complained that he found it “strange” that he, “the leader who was voted in by 11m people had to bow to the ruling of the [counter-corruption commission] and the verdict of the Constitutional Court, two organisations composed only of appointed commissioners and judges, whom people did not have a chance to choose”. He has hinted that the laws in question have many “wrong aspects” that need to be changed, and with his strong majority in parliament he will be quite capable of seeing it done.

Most Thais seem happy with the result, however. Mr Thaksin, an energetic telecoms tycoon who launched Thailand's first satellite, has seemed to offer strong government and new hope after years of political weakness and economic pain. He has promoted a few interesting ideas aimed at getting money into the poor rural areas, where it is badly needed, though the results have been patchy. Other promises, such as cleaning out Thailand's bad debts, have hardly been dealt with at all.

In the longer term, Mr Thaksin's lack of enthusiasm for political reform is likely to cost Thailand dear. The promise that the country's relatively superior democracy would promote a greater respect for the rule of law and a decline in corruption has been one of the main factors keeping investors interested. Without that, its attractions may come to seem limited: Thailand lacks the ultra-cheap workforce of Vietnam, the language skills of the Philippines or the relatively efficient bureaucracy and educated workforce of Malaysia. The comparison with Malaysia is particularly apt: for a long time, Malaysians were happy to accept strong if unaccountable government from Mahathir Mohamad in the interests of economic progress. Only in the past few years has it become apparent how badly he has damaged the political fabric of his country.

The stockmarket in Bangkok seemed to sense something like this in Mr Thaksin's case: after rising 4.2% on the first news of the judgment—thanks largely to rises in Mr Thaksin's own Shin Corp and associated companies—it promptly fell back again. After all, Mr Thaksin's main measure to help the exchange, which urgently needs much better supervision and tighter disclosure rules, has been to propose putting Thailand's clocks forward an hour, to match those in Hong Kong and Singapore. It will take a lot more than that.

[LuckyLew]

If we could just turn back the clock to pre-coup times. The coup has brought nothing but chaos.

i've said that many times too. love or hate taksin, i think everyone agrees Thailand was a lot better before the coup. the coup was totally unnecessary, a major overreaction to a corrupt politician, and has created a class war.

the most disturbing thing now is that Abhisit seems unwilling to compromise at all. according to CNN this morning :

**************

Minutes later, the anti-government United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, or UDD, also known as the Red Shirts, said it was willing to negotiate an end to the unrest if troops move out of the area where protesters have amassed by the thousands for weeks.

"We ask the government to ... withdraw troops out of surrounding area," said Natthawut Saikua of the UDD. "We are ready to enter talks immediately by having the United Nations as mediator for this negotiation."

However, the government seemed disinclined to have the United Nations mediate.

Panitan said in the news conference the Thai government has a policy of not allowing organizations to intervene in its internal affairs. The government has its own sovereignty, Panitan said, and can resolve its own problems.

**************

i think without outside intervention, Thailand is screwed at this point

They had negotiations they had a deal, reds canceled at the last minute

What would be different this time

If they reds want to negotiate, then should call of the demonstration

then ask to negotiate. They have prven themselves to be liars who

constantly distort the truth and back down from their promises and renege

on deals. Wold you negotiate with them, they cannot be trusted.

[humfurry]

NBT: English news on now. Updates on the current situation.

[brahmburgers]

i think everyone agrees Thailand was a lot better before the coup.

You're kidding, right? Is part of that 'everyone' the people who were extra-judiciously killed (and their families) in the 'war on drugs' ? Is part of 'everyone' the over 100 young Muslim men who were killed on Thaksin's watch .....and their families? Are some of the 'everyone who agree....' the Thai people who got cheated out of taxes which should have been paid to the Thai treasury by the Shinawatra clan?

In case you didn't notice, when the coup took place, no one put up any resistance. Not one policeman, not one soldier, not one Issanaite or any other Thai person made any fuss about it at the time. Not one shot was fired, not one drop of blood shed. I equated the coup with surgery. There are times when a body has such a serious problem that surgery is necessary. No one likes to be cut with knives, but sometimes that's what needs to be done to excise a diseased organ. Letting it fester might kill the patient.

[Mekhong]

If we could just turn back the clock to pre-coup times. The coup has brought nothing but chaos.

i've said that many times too. love or hate taksin, i think everyone agrees Thailand was a lot better before the coup. the coup was totally unnecessary, a major overreaction to a corrupt politician, and has created a class war.

the most disturbing thing now is that Abhisit seems unwilling to compromise at all. according to CNN this morning :

**************

Minutes later, the anti-government United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, or UDD, also known as the Red Shirts, said it was willing to negotiate an end to the unrest if troops move out of the area where protesters have amassed by the thousands for weeks.

"We ask the government to ... withdraw troops out of surrounding area," said Natthawut Saikua of the UDD. "We are ready to enter talks immediately by having the United Nations as mediator for this negotiation."

However, the government seemed disinclined to have the United Nations mediate.

Panitan said in the news conference the Thai government has a policy of not allowing organizations to intervene in its internal affairs. The government has its own sovereignty, Panitan said, and can resolve its own problems.

**************

i think without outside intervention, Thailand is screwed at this point

I think CNN is moving further and further from the truth and you certainly shouldn't believe everything they say. Their man on the spot, Dan Rivers, seems to be getting redder by the day and his reports come down very much in favour of protesters. His most recent pieces all show army firing weapons and 'innocent' reds firing back with rockets and sling shots. He still denies that the reds have weapons. He described Weng as a moderate when clearly he is one of the original hardcore leaders. He does not mention the Thaksin factor and presents this as the elite and their army crushing a peaceful demonstration. Way off the mark from CNN and Rivers.

[Who, me ?]

If we could just turn back the clock to pre-coup times. The coup has brought nothing but chaos.

i've said that many times too. love or hate taksin, i think everyone agrees Thailand was a lot better before the coup. the coup was totally unnecessary, a major overreaction to a corrupt politician, and has created a class war.

the most disturbing thing now is that Abhisit seems unwilling to compromise at all. according to CNN this morning :

**************

Minutes later, the anti-government United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, or UDD, also known as the Red Shirts, said it was willing to negotiate an end to the unrest if troops move out of the area where protesters have amassed by the thousands for weeks.

"We ask the government to ... withdraw troops out of surrounding area," said Natthawut Saikua of the UDD. "We are ready to enter talks immediately by having the United Nations as mediator for this negotiation."

However, the government seemed disinclined to have the United Nations mediate.

Panitan said in the news conference the Thai government has a policy of not allowing organizations to intervene in its internal affairs. The government has its own sovereignty, Panitan said, and can resolve its own problems.

**************

i think without outside intervention, Thailand is screwed at this point

They had negotiations they had a deal, reds canceled at the last minute

What would be different this time

If they reds want to negotiate, then should call of the demonstration

then ask to negotiate. They have prven themselves to be liars who

constantly distort the truth and back down from their promises and renege

on deals. Wold you negotiate with them, they cannot be trusted.

Not a chance that I can trust such a bunch of thugs....

They recall all their fighters, (you know, the innocent unarmed civilians !!!), they cease to attack soldiers, and then after that, they let the army to take back their position, let the hostages go, accept to surrender, and when they are safely locked behind bars, negotiation can start....

[Blue Unicorn]

Just mulling about at home and did some calculations for my own peace of mind. A few weeks ago there were approximately 20,000 protesters at the main rallying point. Thailand has a population of approximately 62 million people. 20,000 means 0.32% of the population were protesting at that site. Now they think it is around 6,000; which in turn mean that is reflective of 0.09% of the population.

How does this reflect on what the majority want ? Well it does not. The other 99.91%. What right does 0.09 or even 0.32% have to dictate to what the rest of the people want? The other 99.91% or if you prefer 99.68%. That is hardly democratic. That is in fact an act of dictatorship plain and simple. Elections were offered and that is democracy at work. But No...That was not acceptable to this tiny minority ! If a tiny minority did not accept it that is an act of dictatorship not democracy. Fact.

Even if you argue that there are many who just do not come to protest. Well then they cannot be that bothered about their cause. And even for arguments sake you multiplied it by 10 times....lets be generous for the skeptics and those who believe minorities have the right to dictate to the majority (not democracy)....that still only gives you 3.2% and 0.9%. Once again an overwhelming majority not involved.

Now it is fairly obvious to anyone with a grain of intelligence who actually lives in Thailand and knows this country and has lived here for over 10 years:(not foreign reporters over for their jolly with their miss informed and biased views)..... This has much to do with the disposed Mr. Thaksin. There is no getting away from this fact.

Now we all know about him, his appalling term in office, crack downs on freedoms, strangling of the press both at home and abroad. Disgusting human rights violations and his wanton vile greed........ Strangely he hated the international press at that time but they seem to leave him alone now dutifully forgetting all his appalling record while they deride the present government who quite frankly deserve an award for being the Worlds most tolerant government. As we all know the USA or UK would not put up with this sort of behavior in their capital cities and they would use force to disperse them. So let’s not bore ourselves with the facts. We all know them. He is a horrible little man as anyone with any decency knows.

But let’s think......this UDD lot had everything they wanted given and on offer to them. But for some strange reason it was never enough. Why ? Because it was not enough for Mr. Thaksin who knows it is almost impossible for him to come back. This false face of democracy they keep talking about is what it is ....false. Because if they knew what democracy was they would not hold hostage a city, stop 90,000 people from working, hurt Thailand's economy which directly hurts their poor families and all poor people in Thailand. Do the rest of Thailand's population.....the majority of 99.91% not have rights too and what about the Bangkok residents who actually pay for this city. This is not about democracy or freedom. Some unfortunate people have been manipulated into believing that, or jumped on the band wagons thinking it was and is about democracy....but alas it is not. It is about one man’s greed and loss of face and power. Sadly this is the facts.

I just wish the foreign press would interview other people than just protesters. And you know why they don't ? Having worked as a writer and a publisher I will tell you............the story ! The myth tale......it sells...........the down trodden protester fighting for their rights and the big bully the government.......common since humankind first started telling stories......think Lord of the rings etc etc......a very common myth tale told throughout history and still told in news papers every day and this is the classic one !

But I do have sympathy for poor people and I have helped my own poor Thai wifes family including denoting to temples and creating businesses for them. And things are changing for them and anyone who knows this country sees it. London used to be the center of wealth in the UK and it took time for it to change in the rest o the country. But it did. Slowly but surely. It is the natural progression and spread of a countries wealth. But it takes time.

Anyway I won't bore you anymore with my thoughts....just wanted to express them. If I genuinely I thought this was a fair cause for freedom and democracy I would defend this group. But it is not and those leaders rant and rave like dictators not people of freedom. I have been a protester in the UK and written about freedom for publications and this is not a protest of freedom....I think currently Thailand has the best man for the job as PM now. Polite, clean, well mannered and has stuck with it during the most difficult times. He has shown himself to be compassionate and willing to compromise. Yes perhaps a little hesitant but its easy to criticise when sitting at home without the enormous pressures he has to bear.... But the other side have not. Not once have they compromised or shown their democratic face. Why ? Because they are not about democracy. Why ? Because Thaksin was never about democracy . Hitler once said....the bigger the lie, the more people believe it.....and he was right. Dictatorship under the veil of democracy..........and many poor people believed it...just as they did when he bought their votes and gave out tax payers money (most of which came from the Bangkok people, tourism and exports) all of which they are now damaging....what a strange world we live in

I hope they see sense and peace comes once agin to the streets of Bangkok. Thailand is such a wonderful country with such a bright future.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Blue Unicorn

[Who, me ?]

If we could just turn back the clock to pre-coup times. The coup has brought nothing but chaos.

i've said that many times too. love or hate taksin, i think everyone agrees Thailand was a lot better before the coup. the coup was totally unnecessary, a major overreaction to a corrupt politician, and has created a class war.

the most disturbing thing now is that Abhisit seems unwilling to compromise at all. according to CNN this morning :

**************

Minutes later, the anti-government United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, or UDD, also known as the Red Shirts, said it was willing to negotiate an end to the unrest if troops move out of the area where protesters have amassed by the thousands for weeks.

"We ask the government to ... withdraw troops out of surrounding area," said Natthawut Saikua of the UDD. "We are ready to enter talks immediately by having the United Nations as mediator for this negotiation."

However, the government seemed disinclined to have the United Nations mediate.

Panitan said in the news conference the Thai government has a policy of not allowing organizations to intervene in its internal affairs. The government has its own sovereignty, Panitan said, and can resolve its own problems.

**************

i think without outside intervention, Thailand is screwed at this point

I think CNN is moving further and further from the truth and you certainly shouldn't believe everything they say. Their man on the spot, Dan Rivers, seems to be getting redder by the day and his reports come down very much in favour of protesters. His most recent pieces all show army firing weapons and 'innocent' reds firing back with rockets and sling shots. He still denies that the reds have weapons. He described Weng as a moderate when clearly he is one of the original hardcore leaders. He does not mention the Thaksin factor and presents this as the elite and their army crushing a peaceful demonstration. Way off the mark from CNN and Rivers.

I was watching at French TV yesterday and was shocked to hear their report! An absolute shame! Total BS.....

I also received calls from relatives, stating that they don't understand why army is shooting innocent civilians.....Took only seconds for them to understand the real situation...

[kaengk]

If we could just turn back the clock to pre-coup times. The coup has brought nothing but chaos.

i've said that many times too. love or hate taksin, i think everyone agrees Thailand was a lot better before the coup. the coup was totally unnecessary, a major overreaction to a corrupt politician, and has created a class war.

the most disturbing thing now is that Abhisit seems unwilling to compromise at all. according to CNN this morning :

**************

Minutes later, the anti-government United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, or UDD, also known as the Red Shirts, said it was willing to negotiate an end to the unrest if troops move out of the area where protesters have amassed by the thousands for weeks.

"We ask the government to ... withdraw troops out of surrounding area," said Natthawut Saikua of the UDD. "We are ready to enter talks immediately by having the United Nations as mediator for this negotiation."

However, the government seemed disinclined to have the United Nations mediate.

Panitan said in the news conference the Thai government has a policy of not allowing organizations to intervene in its internal affairs. The government has its own sovereignty, Panitan said, and can resolve its own problems.

**************

i think without outside intervention, Thailand is screwed at this point

I think CNN is moving further and further from the truth and you certainly shouldn't believe everything they say. Their man on the spot, Dan Rivers, seems to be getting redder by the day and his reports come down very much in favour of protesters. His most recent pieces all show army firing weapons and 'innocent' reds firing back with rockets and sling shots. He still denies that the reds have weapons. He described Weng as a moderate when clearly he is one of the original hardcore leaders. He does not mention the Thaksin factor and presents this as the elite and their army crushing a peaceful demonstration. Way off the mark from CNN and Rivers.

As the yellow hordes devour ASTV and military/govt TV while slandering CNN, BBC, IHT, CSMonitor, Economist, etc. and banning more and more websites they start to believe thier own bs. When you are crying that the whole world is wrong and we are right, you start to look more and more like North Korea.

[timekeeper]

At the Dusit Thani hotel, which overlooks the Reds' encampment, guests evacuated their rooms and rushed to the basement as staff warned them the hotel was under attack, according to an AFP journalist inside.

"I was in bed. There was a big explosion very close to my room. I went out of the room, other people did too and at that moment the wall outside was hit by bullets," said AFP photographer Pedro Ugarte.

"Everybody is now in the basement, about 100 people," he said by telephone.

It was unclear where the shooting came from.

Nation

17 05 2010

without putting too fine a point on the reporting skills of an AFP quoted employee,

i doubt the Army would be turning 180 degrees and firing behind them at the hotel with grenades and rifles

especially as the red menace were directly in front of them firing at them

where do they get these western press idiots from?

why do they not just come straight out and say it?

the western press treat it like a dirty little secret

the red are armed to the teeth with stolen M16 rifles, Thaksin paid for AK47's and M79 grenades

the truth is that, the army was EXCHANGING gunfire with the red terrorists

where is Kate Adie when you need her?

[Siam Simon]

If we could just turn back the clock to pre-coup times. The coup has brought nothing but chaos.

Incorrect and has been proved many many times

you do not listen

If you want to get to the beginning you need to go back to when Thaskin took power

and stop the curruption taking place that caused the coup

Stop blaming the solution for trying to fix the origional cause

But as we can see you are part of the red shirt collective

Resistance is futile. You have been assimilated, and all your code will serve the collective

Thaksin just brought 'the wrong type' of corruption.

The 'right type' of corruption is now going on unabated.

And protesters with slingshots and celebration fireworks are being executed in order to maintain the 'right type' of corruption.