More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[lungmi]

As I said in another thread one can only wonder about the sense of injustice

as perceived by the reds and a large part of Isaan .

And wonder about its magnitude to the effect that protestors are willing to die for their

cause .

I dont think the military will ever try another coup again !

I just have an e/mail from a farang friend in Esaarn. Red village, but most of them start to understand that they had been misused by their "leaders".

[Mekhong]

Anyone like to take a look and listen (in English) to what this Thai lady has to say about Thaksin

1:13

Essential viewing. I get the impression that many people on this forum do not realize the extent to which their Dear Leader is detested.

The lady makes her point well when she says that all of this chaos is being funded with money that should be in the country's tax coffers.

Here she is again, a bit stronger this time. As with the other clip, this is recorded last year after black Songkran.

[agord]

http://img189.imageshack.us/i/dsc0126xz.jpg/

Take a look at this photo. Do these people look like criminals to you? Taken today.

I was told that the official line from the military is that it doesnt want to get caught up in some battle with these sort of people around. It could go very badly wrong especially if there are 'real trained' agitators in there. I mean it is possible that they might kill a couple of innocent bystanders to incite the crowd. Or maybe these 'real' terrorists are just thugs. If 50 of that crowd get killed then it will not look good.

No but these do people do

as do these people if we can call them that

[humfurry]

With all due respect to those killed this past week in the violence can anybody tell me (beyond the soldiers) if any person died who was not willfully disobeying lawful orders from the government or military?

the ten year old boy.

the pregnant woman killed near the Indra hotel.

what u dont understand is that fighting is going on around people trying to live their lives. In RatchaProp and Bon Kai people are being terrorized by Army snipers.

I'm telling you what residents have told me. And im telling you what i have seen in people's faces. And too the fear that i myself have experienced.

I have to believe that if we visit Din Daeng, Rama 1, Victory monument etc. we will be told the same thing.

if you believe innocent people aren't dying then you u just need to go look for yourself. Though i dont really recommend it unless you know something about urban combat.

Why are the red protestors spreading out into these areas?

To proselytize to poor downtrodden inter-city masses with hypnotic foot clapper rhythms?

[whybother]

TAN: According to INN, red shirt leaders are now willing to negotiate ceasefire without any condition

Sense coming from the red shirts at last.

Now let's see if the protestors pull back, or it's just another red herring.

[BKjohn]

With all due respect to those killed this past week in the violence can anybody tell me (beyond the soldiers) if any person died who was not willfully disobeying lawful orders from the government or military?

A 10 year old killed...

now pls don't even try to justify it.... u would fail..sorry

And come on the bar has to be set a little higher than that.

This sounds like a public announcement by the Burmese Government.

Nobody will justify this, its a shame that this happened but the culprits are not the government - any death in this whole affair must be credited to Thaksin and his accomplices and of course the parents who endangered their child's life.

[Steely Dan]

CRES Demands Protesters Leave Ratchprasong

The Center for the Resolution of Emergency Situations has ordered protesters to leave the Ratchprasong area before 3 P.M. today.

Officials say refusing to do so can result in a two yearjail term. Buses are being provided for those who wish to leave.

Hmmm, I think I should be on the CRES payroll, they are starting to implement measures I suggested here days ago. Also they have at last frozen assets of Thaksin and his cronies. I think this should be announced by sms and loud speakers to the protest site - Two years in jail and you're not getting paid, you have till 3.00pm today to leave.

[TAWP]

http://img189.imageshack.us/i/dsc0126xz.jpg/

Take a look at this photo. Do these people look like criminals to you? Taken today.

I was told that the official line from the military is that it doesnt want to get caught up in some battle with these sort of people around. It could go very badly wrong especially if there are 'real trained' agitators in there. I mean it is possible that they might kill a couple of innocent bystanders to incite the crowd. Or maybe these 'real' terrorists are just thugs. If 50 of that crowd get killed then it will not look good.

No but these do people do

as do these people if we can call them that

Wow, the third 'dick' was too small to be censored...that gotta hurt...

[harrry]

Regardless of the blood spilled in Bangkok ....and it has been way too much allready, the chaos in Bangkok will be over one way or the other. What will not be over is the chaos causedby the money this episode has and will cost and the impact this will have on themany Thais who will not have the benifit of at least some of the government's money being able to fund improvemements inthe nation's school and hospitals. This episode in Thailand's history brings little credit to anyone and in time to come I am sure the country will regret its cost.

Edited May 17, 2010 by harrry

[BKjohn]

TAN: According to INN, red shirt leaders are now willing to negotiate ceasefire without any condition

Sense coming from the red shirts at last.

Now let's see if the protestors pull back, or it's just another red herring.

Most likely a trick - as soon as the army pulls back out comes the same BS we had before ... Government must ............. hope Abhisit doesn't fall for this - if they are serious they will have to unilaterally lay down their arms and the leaders give themselves up without delay ....

[Bagwan]

Any idiot even you, knows who assassinated the guy

Only the young and the stupid are sure of anything. Since you obviously KNOW who fired the shot, we more sentient people will draw conclusions about your tender years and/or your mental capacity - if they haven't done so already. The unassailable fact is that the jury is still out in the matters of causation and of the affiliation of the person who pulled the trigger.

BTW AFAIK the murderous hot headed military loose cannon in the pay of an absentee convicted criminal is still alive so that any talk of assassination is a tad premature.

Later

Have now learnt that he died a couple of hours ago. I prefer the phrase 'taken out' rather than assassinated though. If reports that the bullet went into one temple and exited the other then it seems that we can discount a sniper since surely the trajectory would have been on a downward plane. Unlike FC whose ramblings are presented as facts this is just conjection on my part.

[rogerx007]

With all due respect to those killed this past week in the violence can anybody tell me (beyond the soldiers) if any person died who was not willfully disobeying lawful orders from the government or military?

A 10 year old killed...

now pls don't even try to justify it.... u would fail..sorry

And come on the bar has to be set a little higher than that.

This sounds like a public announcement by the Burmese Government.

Nobody will justify this, its a shame that this happened but the culprits are not the government - any death in this whole affair must be credited to Thaksin and his accomplices and of course the parents who endangered their child's life.

Ohok... you mean every kid on the road is a target now ...

We better not drag it further....

[OzMick]

Too bad about the fighting.

It is so sad the deaths and injuries.

I never post but I thought I might add to the place here with a post that is less childish.

I mean all we read is mostly anti red rants here and an occasional rant against the current Thai ruling class, that is quickly removed.

Thaivisa seems to be similar to Fox news.

if it is not rightwing, it is a lie says this site.

My two cents.

I predict the fight could go on for years. Perhaps one side or the other will win for a time but then the fight will break out again. We all can see the hate the two groups have for one another. The Anti Reds call the reds animals and worse.

No matter the nonsense we read here in this strictly controlled and right leaning site, we all know that if an election were held tomorrow, the reds would become the ruling party. This is precisely why it is that the Ruling regime has used coups and fake elections in the past 4 years. if they could defeat the Reds in a real election, they would simply invite in the UN and hold a very open election and win.

So the minority group, Now in power) with most of the power will not give it up without a fight.

Thus Bangkok could be destroyed over the next few years and Thailand could be turned into a wrecked third world nation. The fight could go on and on and on.

Most of you rich Thais will leave. Most all foreigners will leave.

But the fight will go on and on and on until the ruling class gives up.

My prediction.

Good luck all and stay safe.

Remember a rock in the head can kill you just like a bullet can.

Best wishes to all my friends there.

If the site is so controlled and anti-red, why is your post still here?

The reason most red supporters don't like this site, is because any propaganda that they spurt is usually put down with one or two simple facts.

Well the fact is , as reported by the free press ,that the army is killing civilians .

Forget your own propaganda and stick to the real facts

So we've changed from "innocent peaceful protesters" to "civilians". When you take off your red shirt, you're no longer a redshirt even while you are attacking soldiers. And given the incredibly low number of people killed, it is obvious that the army is not wantonly killing, ask the guy with the hole in his foot.

[earthpig]

With all due respect to those killed this past week in the violence can anybody tell me (beyond the soldiers) if any person died who was not willfully disobeying lawful orders from the government or military?

the ten year old boy.

the pregnant woman killed near the Indra hotel.

what u dont understand is that fighting is going on around people trying to live their lives. In RatchaProp and Bon Kai people are being terrorized by Army snipers.

I'm telling you what residents have told me. And im telling you what i have seen in people's faces. And too the fear that i myself have experienced.

I have to believe that if we visit Din Daeng, Rama 1, Victory monument etc. we will be told the same thing.

if you believe innocent people aren't dying then you u just need to go look for yourself. Though i dont really recommend it unless you know something about urban combat.

Why are the red protestors spreading out into these areas?

what posters dont understand, and what i tried to explain in my earlier lengthy post on what i witnessed yesterday at bon kai (on page 58) is that we are no longer witnessing only an issan invasion of bangkok.

since the assasination, we are witnessing an uprising of citizens throughout red neighborhoods of bangkok.

at bon kai yesterday, i didnt interview a single person who had traveled to bkk for the demonstrations. the reds on the barricades there whom i spoke to were all a) local residents of bon kai and klong toei and mostly originally from issan. these protestors are not "moving out." they are fighting from the windows and doorways of their own homes. the hatred for the army is intense.

but to the extent that some protestors are still arriving from issan, and i am told it is continuing but as a trickle not a flow, they cant enter the original red zone. so i presume they would be joining the Outer Ring Reds.

and supplies are flowing in as well. look at the following video taken minutes after the BBC vid showing the man shot in the leg, under the motorway bridge on Rama 4. all those tires hadnt been there a little while earlier. supplies like this are coming out of klong toei and bon kai and going up through soi rumrudee to sarasin intersection and ratchaP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnnGULzSlwk

[jcbangkok]

With all due respect to those killed this past week in the violence can anybody tell me (beyond the soldiers) if any person died who was not willfully disobeying lawful orders from the government or military?

A 10 year old killed...

now pls don't even try to justify it.... u would fail..sorry

You might want to reread my question as I believe it is common knowledge the poor boy was in an area that was ruled illegal to be within and there was reports he was told by soldiers to leave numerous times but I question these reports until the official investigation is complete. I also will wait before deciding how the boy actually died until official investigation is provided but the one thing that does seem to not be in doubt is he was breaking the law being where he was.

In this case though, if the soldiers were aware of his presence and were not engaged in self preservation then they should have arrested the boy for his own protection.

With that said, I do feel horrible about his death and pass my condolences on to his parents who I imagine had no idea where he was after midnight in a battle zone.

But again, my question is still valid. I just heard something about a pregnant women being killed and don't have all the facts (rumors) on that yet but am curious if there has been any confirmed collateral damage of those outside the area that has been ruled a live fire area and an illegal place to be.

[indemnity]

BANGKOK: -- The death of Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdhipol was announced to the protesters at the Rajprasong by Jatuporn Promphan, Natthawut Saikua and Kwanchai Praiphana.

Several protesters broke into tear upon learning of the death.

They stood in silence for a minute to honour him.

NATION

17 05 2010

wow they really thought a lot about him

''several'' protesters ( out of several thousand) broke into tear (just the one tear)

and only a minutes silence?

i thought it was universal protocol to get two minutes?

dam_n, you always get short changed with these bloody reds..................

he only got 10 seconds in Dubai

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3609436

[Jerrytheyoung]

Obserkomando disgustingly implies that I said he was killed by soldiers for refusing to leave,

when all that was meant was:

He was told to leave because it was too dangerous,

he didn't, and was caught in crossfire or richochet.

What spin? I asked you if you thought a Thai ten year old has the metal capacity to make that decision given the circumstances and gravity of the situation.

You also mention it was "collateral damage, a crossfire or ricochet", I assume you have proof of this?

As usual ignore my answers given and quote me out of context. Same same for you.

I have the published and clear words of the soldiers at the scene to the press,

posted in the TVF locked press release thread right after the incident.

I will not bother to spend an hour trying to back track 100 pages to find it for you.

And yes I think a Ten year old has the capacity for rational thought,

just they still get caught in their emotions too much.

Can a ten year old follow direct orders. Yes, most of them.

Best example, 10 or even younger year old [b]child soldiers [/b]in Africa - when asked "how many people have you killed?" his answer was 2 !

yesterday, i have suggest we do not utilise this death for fuelling our debate. A lot of you have supported the idea; it has been a non wanted accident.

Today again I repeat we should not use this, particularly when twisting the facts: this poor young boy was just a passer by, probably playing, not understanding the situation.

Shame on those who are playing with this death and the facts....

[jcbangkok]

TAN: According to INN, red shirt leaders are now willing to negotiate ceasefire without any condition

Sense coming from the red shirts at last.

Now let's see if the protestors pull back, or it's just another red herring.

Most likely a trick - as soon as the army pulls back out comes the same BS we had before ... Government must ............. hope Abhisit doesn't fall for this - if they are serious they will have to unilaterally lay down their arms and the leaders give themselves up without delay ....

The fact they want to negotiate is a condition since they simply need to lay down there weapons and form two lines ... one to the bus to take them home and the other to the police to be place in handcuffs for those with warrants.

[whybother]

yesterday, i have suggest we do not utilise this death for fuelling our debate. A lot of you have supported the idea; it has been a non wanted accident.

Today again I repeat we should not use this, particularly when twisting the facts: this poor young boy was just a passer by, probably playing, not understanding the situation.

Shame on those who are playing with this death and the facts....

Agreed.

[GungaDin]

Anyone like to take a look and listen (in English) to what this Thai lady has to say about Thaksin

1:13

Well...

Well at least it is from the heart. No fence sitting there.

She had better hope that the red's don't prevail and Thaksin is back though.

Not always good thing to wear your heart on your sleeve like that.

I hope to god it doesn't turn out to be the daughter of someone in the public eye coz if that goes up on stage at the red rally, it might just raise the tension a bit.

A brave lass, I think that she is studying at the Australian School of Diplomacy, Canberra.

[Blue Unicorn]

very sad.....

Edited May 17, 2010 by Blue Unicorn

[whybother]

Well the fact is , as reported by the free press ,that the army is killing civilians .

Forget your own propaganda and stick to the real facts

They are not killing "civilians". The army are shooting at armed thugs.

"Civilians" don't set up barricades of tyres and light them. "Civilians" don't shoot RPGs at hotels. "Civilians" don't shoot weapons at the army.

Edited May 17, 2010 by whybother

[BKjohn]

What spin? I asked you if you thought a Thai ten year old has the metal capacity to make that decision given the circumstances and gravity of the situation.

You also mention it was "collateral damage, a crossfire or ricochet", I assume you have proof of this?

As usual ignore my answers given and quote me out of context. Same same for you.

I have the published and clear words of the soldiers at the scene to the press,

posted in the TVF locked press release thread right after the incident.

I will not bother to spend an hour trying to back track 100 pages to find it for you.

And yes I think a Ten year old has the capacity for rational thought,

just they still get caught in their emotions too much.

Can a ten year old follow direct orders. Yes, most of them.

Best example, 10 or even younger year old [b]child soldiers [/b]in Africa - when asked "how many people have you killed?" his answer was 2 !

yesterday, i have suggest we do not utilise this death for fuelling our debate. A lot of you have supported the idea; it has been a non wanted accident.

Today again I repeat we should not use this, particularly when twisting the facts: this poor young boy was just a passer by, probably playing, not understanding the situation.

Shame on those who are playing with this death and the facts....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Than you should ask the red supporters here not to bring it up again and again in an attempt to make the government look bad

[jcbangkok]

CRES Demands Protesters Leave Ratchprasong

The Center for the Resolution of Emergency Situations has ordered protesters to leave the Ratchprasong area before 3 P.M. today.

Officials say refusing to do so can result in a two yearjail term. Buses are being provided for those who wish to leave.

Hmmm, I think I should be on the CRES payroll, they are starting to implement measures I suggested here days ago. Also they have at last frozen assets of Thaksin and his cronies. I think this should be announced by sms and loud speakers to the protest site - Two years in jail and you're not getting paid, you have till 3.00pm today to leave.

This announcement has been made numerous times over the last weeks as have the buses being available. The only difference is the deadline. And agree on the freezing funds.

[humfurry]

Well the fact is , as reported by the free press ,that the army is killing civilians .

Forget your own propaganda and stick to the real facts

They are not killing "civilians". The army are shooting at armed thugs.

"Civilians" don't set up barricades of tyres and light them. "Civilians" don't shoot RPGs at hotels. "Civilians" don't shoot weapons at the army.

Why bother...

[whybother]

Well the fact is , as reported by the free press ,that the army is killing civilians .

Forget your own propaganda and stick to the real facts

When you accept people like this amongst you, you have to accept the consequences.

edit: still no defense of this from red supporters, but they still go on about "unarmed, peaceful civilians". <deleted>.

Edited May 17, 2010 by whybother

[humfurry]

CRES Demands Protesters Leave Ratchprasong

The Center for the Resolution of Emergency Situations has ordered protesters to leave the Ratchprasong area before 3 P.M. today.

Officials say refusing to do so can result in a two yearjail term. Buses are being provided for those who wish to leave.

Hmmm, I think I should be on the CRES payroll, they are starting to implement measures I suggested here days ago. Also they have at last frozen assets of Thaksin and his cronies. I think this should be announced by sms and loud speakers to the protest site - Two years in jail and you're not getting paid, you have till 3.00pm today to leave.

This announcement has been made numerous times over the last weeks as have the buses being available. The only difference is the deadline. And agree on the freezing funds.

but... but...

[earthpig]

With all due respect to those killed this past week in the violence can anybody tell me (beyond the soldiers) if any person died who was not willfully disobeying lawful orders from the government or military?

the ten year old boy.

the pregnant woman killed near the Indra hotel.

what u dont understand is that fighting is going on around people trying to live their lives. In RatchaProp and Bon Kai people are being terrorized by Army snipers.

I'm telling you what residents have told me. And im telling you what i have seen in people's faces. And too the fear that i myself have experienced.

I have to believe that if we visit Din Daeng, Rama 1, Victory monument etc. we will be told the same thing.

if you believe innocent people aren't dying then you u just need to go look for yourself. Though i dont really recommend it unless you know something about urban combat.

Haven't there been lawful orders issued numerous times for citizens to stay out this area? Isn't being in these area punishable by 1 year in jail?

ABSURD.

these are dirt poor people we are talking about. they live in hovels. if you knew bangkok, you would know this. obvoiusly you have never visited these neighorhoods. and you would know that they cant just pull out a visa card and check into a hotel somewhere else.

i dont know how many thousands of people today are trying to do simple things like find food for their children and they are doing so in abject terror of a sniper's bullet piercing their skull.

anybody who thinks only reds are dying is self delusional. that's not what happens when combat occurs in densely populated neighborhoods.

and its not only that innocent blood is flowing. go take a look at the terror in people's eyes. go look at young children crying as they have no idea what is going on, except that that their mother is crying in fear.

you and a few others have consistently bayed for blood in your postings over the last few weeks.

congratulations JC.

you keyboard warriors are real men.

[rabo]

So, we can stay in compliance ... can we get a better understanding of which rule this would fall under? Since you deleted the posts, I am not sure what we cannot say in terms of the dead. Will it result in a suspension if we say we are happy a Terrorist has been killed or making a comment such as "It is a good thing Hitler died" ... to be clear I am not making that comment about Hitler as I don't want to be suspended and just using it as an example.

Looks to me more and more as its Abhisit who is acting like Hitler .

Many thais started to support him for his past moderation but now

that is changing

My wife's family (with the exception of the father who was very pro red and extremely old fashion)didn't really follow politics before this whole event now completely support Abhisit. Believe me, changing my father in law's mind about anything is a very difficult task.

And I also know for a fact that many of her relatives feel the same way.

I'm sure most Thai families now fall into this category.

As I said earlier, my family is the same way. I would say many responsible people come to the same point, and I count rural farming families as responsible, they survive on the land. No doubt there is still a lot of red support.

But my wife said something that surprised me last night for its wisdom. She is absolutely apolitical. She said, "We have now lost everything in the eyes of everybody. The government must not stop, now they must get rid of the mess."

[saintofsilence]

Anyone like to take a look and listen (in English) to what this Thai lady has to say about Thaksin

1:13

Well...

Well at least it is from the heart. No fence sitting there.

She had better hope that the red's don't prevail and Thaksin is back though.

Not always good thing to wear your heart on your sleeve like that.

I hope to god it doesn't turn out to be the daughter of someone in the public eye coz if that goes up on stage at the red rally, it might just raise the tension a bit.

A brave lass, I think that she is studying at the Australian School of Diplomacy, Canberra.

Well done young lady ,

can some one with put this in the thread so we can play it direct instead of clicking on the link.

thanks

Edited May 17, 2010 by saintofsilence