Thousands Of Thai Protesters Defy Deadline To Leave

[lilkitty]

Here is some red propaganda for you to bash.

"The current government did not come to power through a "normal democratic process". The party currently in power boycotted an election they knew they would lose as a first step in their rejection of democracy. Next the elected government was overthrown in a military coup, then the junta re-wrote the constitution and used the new law retroactively to dissolve the country's most popular party and ban senior politicians who had not even been accused (let alone convicted) of any crime. With their new law and institutions in place, the junta braved elections but when the result again went against them they used their legal code and control of the judiciary to eject a sitting prime minister for appearing to profit from a cooking show, then again dissolved the countries most popular party; and after thus laying waste to the opposition (all politicians elected through a normal democratic process) they were finally able to cobble together a coalition that included Newin's party, who, although banned for previous activities, was somehow allowed to continue as leader of his party as long as he switched sides.

I would hardly call that a normal democratic process.

This history may explain, in part, the reds doubting the sincerity of Abhisit's quickly withdrawn offer of elections in November."

Exceptionally well written post.

[whybother]

ok a few pointers but no names.

1. why thai people dont know their recent history.... Their history is littered with unsavoury events. They dont like anybody asking questions so they dont teach thai history at school

2. Who are the paymasters...look at any society and there are basic things we all need. Food, infrastructure,transport, yes even beer and many others.. do your own googling (hint look at Forbes you may find some answers there)

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

Thaksin had five years to change that rule, and he only changed it specifically to sell HIS company. Some I don't think he would change it unless he was going to make money from it.

Edited May 17, 2010 by whybother

[ambros5]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. ...These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

i fear that something like this may explain the "third force" behind 10 april and the sae daeng assasination. yes, its just speculation.

There is no such thing called third force. It was setup by intelligence special force. They work and take orders from government head. Usually this kind of situation they will put the blame to the third force and make themselves very clean. This is just to fool the public and push the blame to the opponents.

[hammered]

If Abhisit made the SAME offer as before, but added you must ALL DISPERSE NOW, do you think the red leaders (now that General Deang is gone) would say yes or no? I don't think they deserve the same offer as before, but curious about whether they would take it or just use it as an excuse to bring in armed reinforcements.

Interesting issue.

I would imagine that the offer is privately still available if the reds want to get hold of him. I don't think Abhisit is that stubborn or blood thirsty.

Whether or not Abhisit's handlers would agree having gone to all this effort so far, is another issue.

The same offer would have to still be available. Poll after poll showed that while the hardliners on both sides didn't like it, the majority of the Thai people found the road map acceptable. If the reds were to make this offer publicly, there would be no realistic way for Abhisit to refuse.

We can only assume that the reds do not want this. They want more blood.

The hardliners could not thwart this deal if it was possible. A certain very important person who rumours say was likely behind the previous compromise attempt would not allow it. He wants the bloodshed to stop.

Talks are ongoing. This will all be over in a few days.

Why was Chavalit and Jatuporn left off of the money transaction blacklist? You don't know do you? Neither do I, but it is a sure sign that they are trying to reach a compromise.

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

[dobadoy]

WORLD'S APART:

Thaksin snapped today shopping for Louis Vuitton while Bangkok burns.

There's the proof then. Clearly, as Thaksin says, this has nothing to do with him. He's part of the elite, and the rioters are protesting against the elite - aren't they?

Edited May 17, 2010 by dobadoy

[hammered]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. ...These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

i fear that something like this may explain the "third force" behind 10 april and the sae daeng assasination. yes, its just speculation.

There is no such thing called third force. It was setup by intelligence special force. They work and take orders from government head. Usually this kind of situation they will put the blame to the third force and make themselves very clean. This is just to fool the public and push the blame to the opponents.

Read the book about Chavalit and Taharn Prahn and then come back and talk to us

[LuckyLew]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. ...These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

i fear that something like this may explain the "third force" behind 10 april and the sae daeng assasination. yes, its just speculation.

There is no such thing called third force. It was setup by intelligence special force. They work and take orders from government head. Usually this kind of situation they will put the blame to the third force and make themselves very clean. This is just to fool the public and push the blame to the opponents.

Got any proof to back up what you type?

[toenail]

Ok, you know I never reply to these things because I feel there are far too many pompas asses who can hide in a computer and try to sound like they are intelligent and bicker at each other. Would you all think!! People are killing each other, red, yellow who cares. A child in a camp like that weather it is waving at the nice solders or taking a crap in the street, it is a human shield, period. I live in Isaan and I teach these people and I do it for free, because I care about them.

There is a man hiding in Dubai or wherever playing a giant game with peoples lives, paying and playing them like pawns, and another man in BKK who has been sucked into the game too. Now they are safe and all the brothers and sisters and cousins are going to kill each other. Pick a side but you know what, it don't matter because they all loose. The only winner is the person with the giant ego, one in BKK and one hiding somewhere else. EVERY ONE ELSE LOOSES PERIOD. Stop your petty bullcrap and pray to something that you can believe in, even if it is your beer, that this can end in some miracle.

*****************

Please note: Most of us on this forum realize the rural people from Isaan and the North are being used. All of us that live in Thailand also have close friends from Isaan like you. When we seem to be a bit hostile with our words towards the Red protesters, most of the time we are directing it towards the thugs who are out in the streets creating havoc.

Next, if you lived and worked in Bangkok, you would understand how frusrating and demeaning it is to be under seige for the past three months. Many people from Isaan working in BKK have not only been affected by this but also are unemployed due to the protester's occupation.

Yes, all of this is from the "devil" , "MR. T.

[earthpig]

Give justice to the victims, not the lawbreakers. I will never support amnesty, and neither will the large majority of Thais who suffered.

Let non criminals negotiate for peace. Let the criminals rot in prison.

im all for criminals rotting in prison. IF ALL THE CRIMINALS ROT IN THE SAME PRISON.

not very likely that those responsible for the coup will have the same fate, is it?

justice works where justice is balanced and fair.

and when that's not the case, you have an amnesty.

or you have civil war.

if you value thai blood, you go for amnesty for all.

[lilkitty]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

How about including in the list that Abhisit's father served on the board of directors of one of the heaviest PAD-financing companies? By supporting the PAD with money for their demonstrations, he eventually paved the way for his son to become Prime Minister.

[hammered]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

How about including in the list that Abhisit's father served on the board of directors of one of the heaviest PAD-financing companies? By supporting the PAD with money for their demonstrations, he eventually paved the way for his son to become Prime Minister.

Actually why not. Lock em all up and throw the key away. All the red and yellow leaders and all the policians. I would go for that. The only principled stand is against all of them.

[englishoak]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. Before there was no technology but now the firing of a gun is online b4 it reaches its target. Ask why grenades are being fired into reporters hotels and so many have been shot and killed. They need the press out of the way as in previous massacres so they can have their own Tiamen Square. These people are no better than those that ordered the slaughter of 2300 innocent students and members of the public in China 20 years ago. Ask yourself who ordered most of the coups over the last 60 years. These are descendants of the people who struck a deal with the Japanese during WW2 not to harm them or their financial interests in return for allowing the Japs to rape murder and do just about anything they wanted to the ordinary Thai people and allied POWs.

These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

Proof please?

Who are his paymasters?

Can you show proof these paymasters order the SD shot?

ok a few pointers but no names.

1. why thai people dont know their recent history.... Their history is littered with unsavoury events. They dont like anybody asking questions so they dont teach thai history at school

2. Who are the paymasters...look at any society and there are basic things we all need. Food, infrastructure,transport, yes even beer and many others.. do your own googling (hint look at Forbes you may find some answers there)

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

Give that man a gold star.

Spot on Sir

[earthpig]

Nobody has to enter this "killing zone" as you put it eh?????

correct.

because a hundred thousand or more people already live in din daeng, ratchaprosob, bon kai, klong toei......

nobody has to even leave their home or neighborhood to be killed.

amazing thailand.

[ambros5]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. ...These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

i fear that something like this may explain the "third force" behind 10 april and the sae daeng assasination. yes, its just speculation.

There is no such thing called third force. It was setup by intelligence special force. They work and take orders from government head. Usually this kind of situation they will put the blame to the third force and make themselves very clean. This is just to fool the public and push the blame to the opponents.

Read the book about Chavalit and Taharn Prahn and then come back and talk to us

I am a Malaysian. Usually I never read books. I had visited many trouble countries around the world and learn the truth from there.

[dobadoy]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

How about including in the list that Abhisit's father served on the board of directors of one of the heaviest PAD-financing companies? By supporting the PAD with money for their demonstrations, he eventually paved the way for his son to become Prime Minister.

Interesting fact. Can you name the company? I was under the impression his father was a medical doctor (his mother, too).

[KMUTT]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

Yes, the Bird Flu Debacle Killer Deceiver Sudarat has had her finances frozen and was on the list.

She's always in the thick of things dirty.

[hammered]

Nobody has to enter this "killing zone" as you put it eh?????

correct.

because a hundred thousand or more people already live in din daeng, ratchaprosob, bon kai, klong toei......

nobody has to even leave their home or neighborhood to be killed.

amazing thailand.

The rights of the majority have been trampled all over and forgotten by reds and government. That kind of indicates that whoever wins wont give a toss about people

[janderton]

I forgot ---can any one remember??? ....Did the army or police disperse the protesters that shut down the airport, or the government offices (two years ago) Or was that settled by a change in government?

if you were been an officer at the time, would you dare again to try to disperse protesters after one of them get a funeral with special very guest attending as never happened before?

me don't...

How about for a change, have a look what facts CNN presents on this document. The Red Shirt leaders always say: how can the Thai Army shoot at people who are unarmed? This will once and for all open your eyes about the Red Shirts.

opened my eyes wide ...

they've been SO SILLY to show to media the weapons the seized from army (or left by) in the past 2 months

they've been SO SO SO Silly to give them back...

such a fool move!

[hammered]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

Yes, the Bird Flu Debacle Killer Deceiver Sudarat has had her finances frozen and was on the list.

She's always in the thick of things dirty.

She is and hasd been one of the most vile poltiicans for ages. Worse than Chalerm not quite as bad as Chavalit. The really vile ones seem attracted to PTP

[whybother]

Here is some red propaganda for you to bash.

"The current government did not come to power through a "normal democratic process". The party currently in power boycotted an election they knew they would lose as a first step in their rejection of democracy. Next the elected government was overthrown in a military coup, then the junta re-wrote the constitution and used the new law retroactively to dissolve the country's most popular party and ban senior politicians who had not even been accused (let alone convicted) of any crime. With their new law and institutions in place, the junta braved elections but when the result again went against them they used their legal code and control of the judiciary to eject a sitting prime minister for appearing to profit from a cooking show, then again dissolved the countries most popular party; and after thus laying waste to the opposition (all politicians elected through a normal democratic process) they were finally able to cobble together a coalition that included Newin's party, who, although banned for previous activities, was somehow allowed to continue as leader of his party as long as he switched sides.

I would hardly call that a normal democratic process.

This history may explain, in part, the reds doubting the sincerity of Abhisit's quickly withdrawn offer of elections in November."

Standard red propaganda. Very little truth and using broad statements without detail.

Please explain the "normal democratic process"?

What is illegal about not standing in an election? They decided it was not going to be free and fair. The constitution court agreed after the election, and invalidated it.

What "retrospective law" got the TRT disbanded?

Which "elected government" was overthrown by a coup?

You don't think a PM should not be JUST a PM, rather than having multiple jobs, and particularly NOT lying to a court?

Don't you hate it when the law is used?

Isn't Thaksin banned? He controls the PPP/PTP.

Basically, what you stated isn't a "normal democratic process". But it has little in relation to the truth either.

Abhisit's offer was on the table and accepted by the reds. The reds didn't live up to the deal when they continued their protests and laid out extra demands. So, it wasn't exactly withdrawn by Abhisit, as rejected by the reds.

Edited May 17, 2010 by whybother

[truethailand]

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

I can't answer that question but I can tell you who has the most to gain. Thaksin will be exacting tribute from any deal done anywhere in the Kingdom. Assuming it still is a Kingdom of course.

Agree 100% Tacky will get his wealth from Foreigners. What the current Amataya have they keep. But they will not get a baht more

[Phuket Stan]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. ...These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

i fear that something like this may explain the "third force" behind 10 april and the sae daeng assasination. yes, its just speculation.

There is no such thing called third force. It was setup by intelligence special force. They work and take orders from government head. Usually this kind of situation they will put the blame to the third force and make themselves very clean. This is just to fool the public and push the blame to the opponents.

Read the book about Chavalit and Taharn Prahn and then come back and talk to us

Exactly....there are a lot of posters here that have never bothered to read a book about Thailand

[ChiangMaiThai]

time works for the Reds and against the government. the government has made a huge strategic blunder allowing this to degenerate into violence. for even if they wipe out RatchaP (which i doubt they can do), the Reds clearly will reappear elsewhere. there are already reported thousands of reds at klong toei.

that is why i am increasingly of the view that only was amnesty the right thing to do, it is the only option the government has left.

it is only a question of how many die before a general amnesty is granted.

That is exactly the problem, now the UDD protestors are running on the open street everywhere around Bangkok. Now they are getting more support from other regions of Thailand as well, and it will continue, and continue and continue until the end...

More support?

The first main day of the protest they had 100,000 people. Where are those people now. There are barely 10,000 people protesting, and that includes in Khon Kaen, the red stronghold.

Those people don't want to get shot. But the support is growing. Or should I say Thailand is becoming even more polarized. My massage lady, maid, driver, are all really nice people. But when you talk about the govt. they turn evil. They hate the current PM. My GF is very nice too. When you mention the reds, she wants to go burn their houses down....

[hammered]

I am a Malaysian. Usually I never read books. I had visited many trouble countries around the world and learn the truth from there.

Guess you dont know what is happening and havent learnt from your visits either then. Do you actually know what Taharn Prahn are?

Or are you some troll trying to make Malaysians look silly?

[ambros5]

I forgot ---can any one remember??? ....Did the army or police disperse the protesters that shut down the airport, or the government offices (two years ago) Or was that settled by a change in government?

if you were been an officer at the time, would you dare again to try to disperse protesters after one of them get a funeral with special very guest attending as never happened before?

me don't...

How about for a change, have a look what facts CNN presents on this document. The Red Shirt leaders always say: how can the Thai Army shoot at people who are unarmed? This will once and for all open your eyes about the Red Shirts.

opened my eyes wide ...

they've been SO SILLY to show to media the weapons the seized from army (or left by) in the past 2 months

they've been SO SO SO Silly to give them back...

such a fool move!

Only good people return to the owner unless they are terrorist?

[Phuket Stan]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

Yes, the Bird Flu Debacle Killer Deceiver Sudarat has had her finances frozen and was on the list.

She's always in the thick of things dirty.

Why did Chavalit suddenly have an urgent desire to travel Kumming in China....anybody know...factual...not conjecture

[hammered]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

Yes, the Bird Flu Debacle Killer Deceiver Sudarat has had her finances frozen and was on the list.

She's always in the thick of things dirty.

Why did Chavalit suddenly have an urgent desire to travel Kumming in China....anybody know...factual...not conjecture

That wilkl be conjecture

Try 2 bkk's analysis. It is interesting

[A_Traveller]

Here is some red propaganda for you to bash.

"The current government did not come to power through a "normal democratic process". The party currently in power boycotted an election they knew they would lose as a first step in their rejection of democracy. Wrong, in fact the opposition parties took considerable legal advice before deciding as a group to boycott the election based on constitutional law. This position was not taken lightly but was based on the legal view that the PM [Thaksin] called the election for purely personal reasons Next the elected government was overthrown in a military coup, At the time of the coup there was no elected government, the country was in caretaker administration which has impacts both fiscal and legal] then the junta re-wrote the constitution and used the new law retroactively to dissolve No the law was not changed at that time, in fact the charges against TRT would have been prosecutable under the 1997 constitution, and were also drafted under the Political parties Act 1999 the country's most popular party and ban senior politicians who had not even been accused (let alone convicted) of any crime Wrong see above re constitution in place at time of the offences. With their new law and institutions in place, the junta braved elections but when the result again went against them they used their legal code and control of the judiciary to eject a sitting prime minister for appearing to profit from a cooking show, No, since the sitting PM decided to commit perjury the view was that it was impossible for the PM to remain, in principal he could have stood for the position the next day, but decided to resign. This might have something to do with the other legal cases which were under appeal which if he were to lose the final appeal would make him ineligible to hold office [Note this was true under the 1997 constitution as well] then again dissolved the countries most popular party; and after thus laying waste to the opposition (all politicians elected through a normal democratic process) they were finally able to cobble together a coalition that included Newin's party, who, although banned for previous activities, was somehow allowed to continue as leader of his party as long as he switched sides.Again, no surprisingly politicians acted in a political manner. One other point here, it is conveniently forgotten that the third party Banharn's, had campaigned on a platform of not going into a coalition with K. Samak, but they did, and oddly I don't hear great complaints from the 'upholders of democratic principals' that the voters for his 37 members were being disenfranchised, funny that

I would hardly call that a normal democratic process.

This history may explain, in part, the reds doubting the sincerity of Abhisit's quickly withdrawn offer of elections in November."

Exceptionally well written post.

But Wrong in so many ways. But can see why you like it.

Regards

[dobadoy]

ok a few pointers but no names.

1. why thai people dont know their recent history.... Their history is littered with unsavoury events. They dont like anybody asking questions so they dont teach thai history at school

2. Who are the paymasters...look at any society and there are basic things we all need. Food, infrastructure,transport, yes even beer and many others.. do your own googling (hint look at Forbes you may find some answers there)

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

Absolute rubbish. Thaksin never threatened nor ever suggested changing foreign ownership rules, it benefits him as much as every other rich billionnaire. The only thing he was intersted in was selling his company to foreigners after manipulating the markets and laws to give in unfair advantage and ii. cheat the country out of the tax by doing it through off-shore asset holdings companies.

A lot of people seem to forget how outraged the Thai public were when Thaksin sold AIS and dodged paying the tax to the country - a fact his once-best buddy and now arch-rival and also billionaire Sonthi Lim was never shy of pointing out. So weird he's gone so quiet in all of this - fear for his life? Or is there a twist at the end of this horrible tale yet to come?

[KMUTT]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

Yes, the Bird Flu Debacle Killer Deceiver Sudarat has had her finances frozen and was on the list.

She's always in the thick of things dirty.

She is and has been one of the most vile politicians for ages. Worse than Chalerm not quite as bad as Chavalit. The really vile ones seem attracted to PTP

As part of the core TRT, her and the other dregs' five year ban will be up in time for the 2011 elections. She can resume her Agriculture Minister portfolio again in Thaksin's new cabinet then and resume her mafia operations full scale.